The Youth Intensive is going on for several years. It is structured pretty much after the adult intensive. But way more damaging because the pre-teens ot teens are emotional opened and than released, without hardly any support, back into their lifes.
The youth intensive was shadowed by the suicides of two teenagers and was shot down by Kalindi for a while. The parents of the dead kids were MOL members and it was aranged that MOL was not mentioned in the reports. However, since than only kids of parents who participated in the adult intensive are allowed to participate in the youth intensive and the disclaimers got way stronger.

The so called second genaration was formed 4 years ago, as a result of the dispair a lot of the youth felt being in the emotional struggle of their involvement. The "second generation" lives in homes (3-6 youth per home)around San Diego lead by Kalindi's daughter Maha and MOL members calling themselves 'spiritual leaders". It is all a big mess and the youth acting out with wild parties, drugs and sex. And all of this is celebrated as free expression of the devine being......

Just sad!

Greetings,

I don't know why the youth intensives are not considered child abuse. I believe it DOES take a village to raise a child: even if the parents of these struggling children WANT them to take the intensive, why should that be allowed without it being child abuse?

If, as a community, we KNEW that parents of a child ENCOURAGED the child's participation in, say, making methamphetamine (extremely volitile), or sniper shooting on the freeway -- or what about cases in which a parent provided alcohol for a graduating HS senior, someone got hurt, and the PARENT was charged. If we knew about this, WOULDN'T WE *DO* SOMETHING ABOUT IT? These parents are guilty, I believe, of child abuse, contributing to delinquincy, etc.

Yes, Kalindi has her documentation (I SURE would love to get a copy of it!) but consider this example: Suppose I take my child to Disneyland and I sign a hold-harmless agreement for my child, and the roller coaster falls apart and my child is SERIOUSLY injured. And, suppose my child is going to need years of trauma and physical therapy. If Disneyland KNEW the roller coast needed repair, wouldn't they still be liable? There are many, many court cases where the hold harmless agreements don't mean (*#)(*$.

So, as the larger "outside" community and "village", is the anything we can do to protect these children from the Intentives -- but also the living situation (drugs, sex) (& rock & roll? :) which is so sick for them.

Consider another example: your neighbor routinely leaves teenagers an environment of drugs, sex etc. (Are these kids all teenagers? And, I assume minors under legal age?) in The neighbor can, perhaps, be reported to social services for child abuse and/or neglect. (you'd likely need documentation i.e. dates, people going in/out, etc.) Maybe??? I'm no lawyer, just a hopeful member of the 'village'. .trying to protect the second generation of MOL'rs.

Kalindi is intelligent and agile. But, she is only one person in a whole world of reasonably sane people. Perhaps thru this forum we can come up w/ ideas ??? As a starting place???

That is a good point and I wonder myself why MOL went on for all this years without legal problems. One reason is certainly JM Sandlow the "Mission" lawyer who pledge himself to Kalindi and promissed her to protect her legally. Kalindi is very afraid to go to prison. Jm is the reason for all the disclaimer forms etc.
However, there where several threads. Sheri Graceland formerly Sheri Resnick had trouble with her her husband David about there kids. David was Kalindi's lover for a while but changed his mind

I have to run and will finish later!

Franz

Is there a safe way that we all could funnel what we each know, to be compiled, and used to shut these pinheads down? Many of us are probably involved in some kind of community service; wouldn't this i(if we could do it) be an important contribution? Does the moderator collect info? Where does it go?

A good point! It would take a combined effort to take some action. I sometimes wonder if a civil lawsuit would make sense. A lot of crazy groups got closed down by million dollar law suits in the past. See the southern poverty law center. Thats how the center is attacting the neo nazi groups.

Nevertheless, it would mean to come out of the shadows and show our faces.

We were discussing MOL months ago on this forum. Do any of you know who Kalindi's ex-guru was when she was a member of ISKCON? It could shed some light as to what sort of cult tricks she learned.

Hi again,

SLS, yes you are right. I would like to think something can be done. In an ideal world, our system would work. IMHO, things don't work 'as they should'. Part of the reason that so many are seduced into cults, is being seduced into the idea of a social structure that works on behalf of individual concerns, since society at large is so fragmented. MOL calls it 'true love' of the group, the TM group calls it "taste of Utopia", the Mormons refer to 'eternal heaven'.
I call it "Lord of the Flies"

While I am in no position to take this on myself (beyond grassroots activism)... If "we" are considering a class action law suit. IMHO, there would be a few initial obstacles to address :

* Gathering the folks. People's fear of "coming out". MOL has extensive personal files on individuals (& compromising photos?). Folks are afraid of being double-crossed. Notice how few postings by exMOLrs ANYwhere! Two cult exit counselors told me that while they have successfully exit counseled MOLrs, those (former) clients repeatedly decline to come assist w/ other MOL interventions. I tried! Their history is so painful, they don't even want to reopen the memories, let alone help others w/ theirs. (Kalindi IS brilliant, no denying that!) so, so sad.

* We'd have to find a nonpublic forum to gather. MOL higher ups lurk on these boards. In the past, I've seen MOL recruitment postings, hence removed, on factnet. (How sick can they get... like offering heroin outside a drug rehab center)

* If Rev. Moon, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Scientology Leaders, Warner Erhard, etc are still floating about (I won't begin to name some current mainstream political leaders...)... what's the real likelihood of shutting down Kalindi? sigh.

r.e. the abused /neglected children :

* I deal w/ the Child Protective Services (CPS) system through my work. They are terribly over burdened already. In my experience, CPS gets involved w/ heavy physical abuse.. multiple fractures, young children with crack in their urine, gunshot wounds. They just don't have the staff/resources to get involved in 'mild' things like middle class teen sex, teen drug use, a middle class teen's documented apparent suicide, etc. more sigh. That's viewed as a domestic situation. as parents of Youth Intensive attendees sent their kids to this program as they believe it's helpful, CPS would probably see it as a domestic situation.
My grown, late 20's daughter, read these threads and said the Intensive probably would have put her in the mental hospital (divorced family issues, etc... am soo grateful my kids declined to attend when they were offered.. I had not been consulted at the time)

I've called CPS for situations such as 14 y.o. pregancy conceived w/ her her 28 y.o. cousin, the 14 y.o. keeping the child (consensual per the 14 y.o.). Or have delivered a baby to a 12 y.o. mother who wouldn't reveal the identity of baby's father. When calling CPS for these, and other similar, they say to me "Why are you calling me about THAT?!" I have to remind them that of the legal guidelines for professional 'mandated reporting'. If not broken bones, limping, open wounds (Yes, I have photographed such and gotten CPS to take abysmal action), they simply don't have the staff. .. funding cuts...

As I'd mentioned elsewhere, I was raised in a cult. The Transcendental Meditation Movement. Saw lots of kids sexually molested and neglected while parents spent hours meditating together, or parents going away for months on end for advanced courses. As my mother said to us as children of the 60's & 70's "This is the best thing I can do for you. By evolving spiritually, the energies benefit all of the family, so it pulls you up closer to enlightenment too." ... abuse?..neglect?... CPS involvement? shrug. we always had food, a roof over our heads, no bruising. I got off lucky... I know many other kids who, as written above on MOL youth, turned to drugs, or ended up diagnosed as schizophrenic, who are afraid to leave the TM Community because ingrained that the world is such a threatening place of 'ignorance' and 'dark forces'.

Sorry, SLS, I don't mean to put a damper on your vision. Just trying to share my experience, so we can together benefit from our cumulative experience, and yes.. an organized tactic, or direct our individual efforts to helping individually, hoping that straw-by-straw we make an impact.

choosing the grassroots one-at-a-time approach,
gi :?

CPS won't really work unless the people who work in them really care. Some just work there cause it sounds good.

Isn't the whole thing just a part of freedom of expression? freedom to do what an individual wants cause it's their life? Parents could sometimes force their pre-teens into it, but if the pre-teens want to do it and the parents don't want them to... nothing much can be done. Unless a child can be reasoned with and given an alternative.

Do you REALLY believe that? Should the Columbine parents have turned a blind eye to the firearms in their teens' bedrooms?

Parents are legally obligated to provide their children and are responsible for their actions until the age of 18. Yes, there are a huge range of parenting styles. But it would seem to me, that if parents have the ability to pay a couple of thousand dollars for a one week 'enrichment and growth' program... such as the Miracle of Love Youth Intensive... they should know of the history of two youth suicides associated with such program.

This is not a normal summer camp experience, but an emotional rollar coaster for teens who are already surging in emotions, hyped up sex hormones and insecurities. Teens need guidance to reign in their wild emotions while engaging constructively in their lives. From what I know about MOL, this has the potential to be psychologically disastrous for a teenager (there are enough adults who've ended up in psychiatric hospitals from the adult Intensive already!).

It surprises me that anyone would state that the Youth Intensive is a "part of freedom of expression. Freedom to do what an individual wants . . .if the pre-teens want to do it and the parents don't want them to...nothing much can be done."

If a child had a loaded gun in his/her backpack, would the parent chalk that up also to 'freedom?" If the child had a head injury while biking, after the parents said 'no', should the parents chalk that up also to 'freedom of choice?'

Absolutely NOT!! As parents, we have, as mentioned above, a LEGAL and most importantly a MORAL obligation to care for our children, until they are 18. My daughter is in her 20's and joined MOL. Now, I could have let her be sucked into their maelstrom of debauchery and deception, or I could have taken action. I thought at first as you appear to think: She's 20-something, and should be making her own choices.

BUT I also kept thinking that if she had cancer, a serious injury, or other potentially serious, harmful experience, I WOULD take action -- even though she is 'of legal age.' Because I love her, and I would do the same for my brothers, or even my mother -- because helping is an act of love, not a question of free reign. Children do not always have permission, or legal authority to make all their own decisions as "free choice."

"Free choice" requires some maturity and responsibility which according to your position are automatically granted to children by virtue of their "wanting to." WRONG !! As far as "nothing can be done," nearly all parents have more control over their children than you seem to realize; adolesence is not a free-for-all. Besides, a child cannot attend the Intensive without written parental permission (per MOL's own documents).

The Intensive, I believe, is extremely harmful to children. As such, they may be more sensitive to MOL's mind f*** , and even more difficult to retrieve back i nto a healthy life. If you think of all the elements of child abuse (touching, screaming, darkness, secrecy, control, etc.), MOL' Youth Intensive has it. Has nothing to do with 'free choice!

By the way, Lakefield, with my 'free choice' to help her, my daughter LEFT MOL, as her own 'free choice.'