Re: Desteni income plan, Donald Herman, Bernard Poolman
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: October 18, 2010 03:08PM
Its interesting how Desteni wants to segregate their new recruits, who are brought in using their recruiting techniques. They want to block any type of interaction between the new recruits, and have their only source of information to come from the official Desteni org.
That is simply about CONTROL. They want to isolate, atomize and control their new recruits.
Another reason for not posting actual names, are sales techniques.
Many MLM's for example, have their main salespeople simply TELL LIES and exaggerate how much they are selling and making. Its standard practice.
That puts more pressure on the low-level salespeople to produce.
It also makes them feel bad about themselves for being such failures at selling, which leads them to take more "courses", and more profit for the groups leaders.
So Desteni could easily fabricate and fudge the numbers from a couple of its main people, over time, to try and manipulate the others.
How long until they find out one of their new recruits is an undercover pyramid fraud squad collecting evidence?
That is simply about CONTROL. They want to isolate, atomize and control their new recruits.
Another reason for not posting actual names, are sales techniques.
Many MLM's for example, have their main salespeople simply TELL LIES and exaggerate how much they are selling and making. Its standard practice.
That puts more pressure on the low-level salespeople to produce.
It also makes them feel bad about themselves for being such failures at selling, which leads them to take more "courses", and more profit for the groups leaders.
So Desteni could easily fabricate and fudge the numbers from a couple of its main people, over time, to try and manipulate the others.
How long until they find out one of their new recruits is an undercover pyramid fraud squad collecting evidence?
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: October 18, 2010 03:49PM
One thing that was mentioned on Herman's site is that Poolman has a background with Rajneesh--which does strike a truthful note.
There is definite cult exposure there, Rajneesh or some other sociopath has shown Poolman the financial possibilities available to a leader who is ruthless enough to control and exploit any followers he can get.
The isolation and control element is massively important, Poolman will do his utmost to keep his followers from discussing the workings of the organisation and his scams amongst themselves and comparing notes. Its the reason that he has fomented so much infighting amongst them.
If two or more Desteni-ites got together and honestly shared their thoughts about their leader and his doings, they would uncover their natural doubts and probably start to see for themselves what a con artist he is and what a pile of crap he is feeding them.
Right now though, with the constant use of the confused Desteni-speak--which Poolman taught them for his own nefarious purposes-- they will remain isolated and confused and totally under his thumb.
There is definite cult exposure there, Rajneesh or some other sociopath has shown Poolman the financial possibilities available to a leader who is ruthless enough to control and exploit any followers he can get.
The isolation and control element is massively important, Poolman will do his utmost to keep his followers from discussing the workings of the organisation and his scams amongst themselves and comparing notes. Its the reason that he has fomented so much infighting amongst them.
If two or more Desteni-ites got together and honestly shared their thoughts about their leader and his doings, they would uncover their natural doubts and probably start to see for themselves what a con artist he is and what a pile of crap he is feeding them.
Right now though, with the constant use of the confused Desteni-speak--which Poolman taught them for his own nefarious purposes-- they will remain isolated and confused and totally under his thumb.
Re: Desteni income plan, Donald Herman, Bernard Poolman
Posted by:
SimulacronX
()
Date: October 18, 2010 03:50PM
When I read the following dialogue on the Desteni Forum (slightly shortenend)........
Maite (Admin)
Hi Manuela,
The course will be walked individually.
Meaning, there won't be any forums any more.
You will not be in contact with your fellow students.
Manuela J ('Student'):
For the sake of EQUALITY and TRANSPARENCY wouldn't that make sense if we all had the same information?
If not, surely there is another reason, isn't there?
Reginald (long-time member):
I don't see any relevance to note all the names of the recruits.
This thread is just to update people and has no other mean.
"If not, surely there is another reason, isn't there?"
I see points where placing the names of recuitments on the forum is not best for all.
........I can't help but to think of another very simple reason to act like this, besides the obvious wanted motivational effects:
There are maybe simply no recruits at all as yet,
and this significant flaw is being hidden in the typical amateurish and shoddy manner à la Desteni.
LINK
Maite (Admin)
Hi Manuela,
The course will be walked individually.
Meaning, there won't be any forums any more.
You will not be in contact with your fellow students.
Manuela J ('Student'):
For the sake of EQUALITY and TRANSPARENCY wouldn't that make sense if we all had the same information?
If not, surely there is another reason, isn't there?
Reginald (long-time member):
I don't see any relevance to note all the names of the recruits.
This thread is just to update people and has no other mean.
"If not, surely there is another reason, isn't there?"
I see points where placing the names of recuitments on the forum is not best for all.
........I can't help but to think of another very simple reason to act like this, besides the obvious wanted motivational effects:
There are maybe simply no recruits at all as yet,
and this significant flaw is being hidden in the typical amateurish and shoddy manner à la Desteni.
LINK
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: October 18, 2010 08:29PM
Another odd thread on the Desteni forum...
"New and Jew"
[desteni.co.za]
where someone who says they're Jewish asks about the Desteni fascination with Hitler and Poolman's anti-Jewish comments in his "The Jew in Every Man is a Zionist" video. Amazing to read the convoluted excuses for Poolman's bigotry, where his words are treated as arcane wisdom with layers and layers of profound meaning.
Poolman has recommended studying the economic policies of the Nazis in relation to "equal money" and has stated that Hitler did what he did out of "love for his people". He has talked about the "white race", a term most commonly used by fascists. Sunette Spies also "portalled" Hitler, supposedly to show how Hitler forgave himself after he died. I suppose the Desteni people are going to find some metaphorical, inner truth in all that as well.
A video by Desteni member, Matti Freeman called "Hitler was the world's greatest activist" was recently deleted. I wonder why.
How anyone could imagine that a piece of writing where a guy discusses how he met a famous person in the "afterlife", whether it's Hitler or anyone else, should possibly be taken seriously, is ridiculous. On that basis alone, there would be reason enough to dismiss it, but the fact that the dead person in question is Hitler, the work is titled "I Am Hitler", and the writer portrays Hitler as having redeemed himself, suggests that the writer, Bernard Poolman, is fixated on Adolf Hitler, and wants to see him recognized as a very great, but perhaps mistaken or misunderstood leader.
The notion that Poolman is showing how everyone has the awful potential to be like Hitler and need to "forgive" themselves is a little far-fetched, to say the least.
Generally speaking, Donald Herman might not be any more credible than Poolman and his chums, but that doesn't mean to say he doesn't have some valid points to make about Desteni, and he is coming from an informed perspective, having met Poolman.
Herman describes Poolman as being influenced by Osho, and that is obviously the case, but not only does he describe Poolman as a student of Hitler, he also states that Poolman has a background in Satanism. There is a crossover in contemporary fascism between Satanism and neo-Nazism. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that Poolman was in the past a neo-Nazi Satanist.
Herman suggests Poolman's real agenda is "hidden behind masked, carefully planned usage (abuse) of spirituality", and it would be true to say that Poolman's strategy does involve a deliberate appropriation and misuse of ideas found in existing spiritual philosophies. However, these ideas are in Desteni never presented as they usually are, as being for "personal development" or anything of that sort, but to get people to fall in line with a strict code of conduct (first rule being"no opinions") which effectively turns them into automatons.
"New and Jew"
[desteni.co.za]
where someone who says they're Jewish asks about the Desteni fascination with Hitler and Poolman's anti-Jewish comments in his "The Jew in Every Man is a Zionist" video. Amazing to read the convoluted excuses for Poolman's bigotry, where his words are treated as arcane wisdom with layers and layers of profound meaning.
Poolman has recommended studying the economic policies of the Nazis in relation to "equal money" and has stated that Hitler did what he did out of "love for his people". He has talked about the "white race", a term most commonly used by fascists. Sunette Spies also "portalled" Hitler, supposedly to show how Hitler forgave himself after he died. I suppose the Desteni people are going to find some metaphorical, inner truth in all that as well.
A video by Desteni member, Matti Freeman called "Hitler was the world's greatest activist" was recently deleted. I wonder why.
How anyone could imagine that a piece of writing where a guy discusses how he met a famous person in the "afterlife", whether it's Hitler or anyone else, should possibly be taken seriously, is ridiculous. On that basis alone, there would be reason enough to dismiss it, but the fact that the dead person in question is Hitler, the work is titled "I Am Hitler", and the writer portrays Hitler as having redeemed himself, suggests that the writer, Bernard Poolman, is fixated on Adolf Hitler, and wants to see him recognized as a very great, but perhaps mistaken or misunderstood leader.
The notion that Poolman is showing how everyone has the awful potential to be like Hitler and need to "forgive" themselves is a little far-fetched, to say the least.
Generally speaking, Donald Herman might not be any more credible than Poolman and his chums, but that doesn't mean to say he doesn't have some valid points to make about Desteni, and he is coming from an informed perspective, having met Poolman.
Herman describes Poolman as being influenced by Osho, and that is obviously the case, but not only does he describe Poolman as a student of Hitler, he also states that Poolman has a background in Satanism. There is a crossover in contemporary fascism between Satanism and neo-Nazism. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that Poolman was in the past a neo-Nazi Satanist.
Herman suggests Poolman's real agenda is "hidden behind masked, carefully planned usage (abuse) of spirituality", and it would be true to say that Poolman's strategy does involve a deliberate appropriation and misuse of ideas found in existing spiritual philosophies. However, these ideas are in Desteni never presented as they usually are, as being for "personal development" or anything of that sort, but to get people to fall in line with a strict code of conduct (first rule being"no opinions") which effectively turns them into automatons.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: October 19, 2010 01:27AM
I would guess that the attraction of Hitler for Poolman is the control that Hitler exerted over his people and his ability to get the masses revering him as a demi-god. The Third Reich is noted for its use of propaganda, theatre and a quasi-spiritual take on a supposedly mythic past and glorious future of the Germanic peoples to bond those peoples together behind the Fuhrer-----in your dreams, Bernard.
I think that is beside the point. Whatever figurehead Poolman is modelling himself on is just a convenient image of domination and control. There are snippets of magick--as in Crowley type beliefs---- there but no Satanism ala Anton La Vey. Every person looking for control over others stumbles across Crowley sooner or later but there is really nothing to Crowleyism except the aforementioned theatre, propaganda, ritual and self-deception. It's useful for frightening impressionable others into obedience and that is its attraction to Poolman.
Its highly likely that as yet there are no takers for the Desteni Income Plan and they are faking it to encourage some doubters to sign up.
What flagged up Herman for me was his insistence on the great intelligence of Poolman--way too obsequious and far more likely to be Poolman puffing himself up. If Herman is so anti-Poolman why is he lauding the man on a public access website as intelligent? It doesn't require much intelligence to dominate and control others, it just takes a willingness to be aggressive and to instil fear.
I would take much of what Herman says also with a pinch of salt. He is using the same evasive confusion techniques as all the other Desteni-ites. If he has stayed chez Poolman, met him in the flesh and considers him such a danger why not name him and report him instead of spreading more fear and mystery via a website?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 01:29AM by Stoic.
I think that is beside the point. Whatever figurehead Poolman is modelling himself on is just a convenient image of domination and control. There are snippets of magick--as in Crowley type beliefs---- there but no Satanism ala Anton La Vey. Every person looking for control over others stumbles across Crowley sooner or later but there is really nothing to Crowleyism except the aforementioned theatre, propaganda, ritual and self-deception. It's useful for frightening impressionable others into obedience and that is its attraction to Poolman.
Its highly likely that as yet there are no takers for the Desteni Income Plan and they are faking it to encourage some doubters to sign up.
What flagged up Herman for me was his insistence on the great intelligence of Poolman--way too obsequious and far more likely to be Poolman puffing himself up. If Herman is so anti-Poolman why is he lauding the man on a public access website as intelligent? It doesn't require much intelligence to dominate and control others, it just takes a willingness to be aggressive and to instil fear.
I would take much of what Herman says also with a pinch of salt. He is using the same evasive confusion techniques as all the other Desteni-ites. If he has stayed chez Poolman, met him in the flesh and considers him such a danger why not name him and report him instead of spreading more fear and mystery via a website?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2010 01:29AM by Stoic.
Re: Desteni
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: October 19, 2010 03:42AM
Quote
Stoic
Whatever figurehead Poolman is modelling himself on is just a convenient image of domination and control. There are snippets of magick--as in Crowley type beliefs---- there but no Satanism ala Anton La Vey.
Sunette Spies "portalled" Anton LaVey, Satan, the Devil, Lucifer and Aleister Crowley.
As well as, amongst others, of course, a vibrator, Audrey Hepburn, an AK-47 rifle, Osho, a piece of toilet paper, Swami Prabhupada and Freddie Mercury.
Here's the page with all the LaVey videos:
[desteni.co.za]
And the thread on the Desteni forum where Poolman draws attention to, or recommends 'The Book of Satan' from Anton LaVey's 'The Satanic Bible'
[desteni.co.za]
and 'The Book of Lucifer' from the same work by LaVey:
[desteni.co.za]
There are countless references throughout Desteni material to demons and demonic possession.
Poolman also started a thread on the Desteni forum pointing to this article:
"Why are there no more Gardners and Crowleys?"
[walkingthehedge.net]
but I can't find it on the Desteni forum. Maybe they've deleted the post to avoid the comparisons with Crowley, same as with deletion of Matti Freeman's Hitler video.
Quote
Stoic
Every person looking for control over others stumbles across Crowley sooner or later but there is really nothing to Crowleyism except the aforementioned theatre, propaganda, ritual and self-deception. It's useful for frightening impressionable others into obedience and that is its attraction to Poolman.
Yes, I agree, and the methods of Crowley, LaVey et al could be used in an underhand manner, as Donald Herman describes "hidden behind masked, carefully planned usage".
Quote
Stoic
I would take much of what Herman says also with a pinch of salt. He is using the same evasive confusion techniques as all the other Desteni-ites. If he has stayed chez Poolman, met him in the flesh and considers him such a danger why not name him and report him instead of spreading more fear and mystery via a website?
Probably because he's afraid of him.
Re: Desteni income plan, Donald Herman, Bernard Poolman
Posted by:
Sandman
()
Date: October 19, 2010 04:34AM
Quote
SimulacronX
There are maybe simply no recruits at all as yet,
and this significant flaw is being hidden in the typical amateurish and shoddy manner à la Desteni.
There are recruits. Don't ask me how I know, but there are.
Re: Desteni income plan, Donald Herman, Bernard Poolman
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: October 20, 2010 07:31AM
'Sunette Spies "portalled" Anton LaVey, Satan, the Devil, Lucifer and Aleister Crowley.
As well as, amongst others, of course, a vibrator, Audrey Hepburn, an AK-47 rifle, Osho, a piece of toilet paper, Swami Prabhupada and Freddie Mercury.'
Anyone who is fearful of Poolman and his tricks should perhaps take a step back and consider the above. Sunette chanelled a piece of toilet paper--this is on the same level as chanelling Lucifer and Hitler. How scary can this stuff really be? How ridiculous can this stuff be?
'Yes, I agree, and the methods of Crowley, LaVey et al could be used in an underhand manner, as Donald Herman describes "hidden behind masked, carefully planned usage".'
There is nothing underhand in the methods of these people, they are upfront and obviously playing on the fears of impressionable people. Giving them any credence other than that is playing into the hands of the fear-mongering Poolman who cites these names only for the purposes of playing with the fears of his listeners.
As well as, amongst others, of course, a vibrator, Audrey Hepburn, an AK-47 rifle, Osho, a piece of toilet paper, Swami Prabhupada and Freddie Mercury.'
Anyone who is fearful of Poolman and his tricks should perhaps take a step back and consider the above. Sunette chanelled a piece of toilet paper--this is on the same level as chanelling Lucifer and Hitler. How scary can this stuff really be? How ridiculous can this stuff be?
'Yes, I agree, and the methods of Crowley, LaVey et al could be used in an underhand manner, as Donald Herman describes "hidden behind masked, carefully planned usage".'
There is nothing underhand in the methods of these people, they are upfront and obviously playing on the fears of impressionable people. Giving them any credence other than that is playing into the hands of the fear-mongering Poolman who cites these names only for the purposes of playing with the fears of his listeners.
Re: Desteni income plan, Donald Herman, Bernard Poolman
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: October 20, 2010 08:39AM
In a sense, when sects get into "crazy" stuff, they can be more dangerous, and anyone who can believe that "crazy" stuff, can be persuaded to believe anything.
Many groups have a "sucker-test" near the beginning, to reject those with critical thinking.
Channeling toilet paper and other inanimate objects fits into that category.
Its a deliberate technique, if you can get others to believe "crazy" irrational stuff, then you can get them to believe anything.
We've all heard of sects where people have even died believing a UFO was behind a comet and they could change dimensions by dying, and countless others.
Many groups have a "sucker-test" near the beginning, to reject those with critical thinking.
Channeling toilet paper and other inanimate objects fits into that category.
Its a deliberate technique, if you can get others to believe "crazy" irrational stuff, then you can get them to believe anything.
We've all heard of sects where people have even died believing a UFO was behind a comet and they could change dimensions by dying, and countless others.
Re: Desteni income plan, Donald Herman, Bernard Poolman
Posted by:
Stoic
()
Date: October 20, 2010 10:03AM
Yes, there are sects such as Heaven's Gate where followers bought into the genuine crazy world of the leader and followed him to suicide.
[en.wikipedia.org])
However, if Poolman is crazy it is a far more calculated and scheming craziness than Applewhite's since his current main motive seems to be to profit from conning his followers into an endless buying of pointless courses.
Of course Applewhite started as a simple conman and got caught up in his own crazy belief system along with his marks--like Crowley he came to believe that his hunchbacks really were soldiers and as a result changed dimensions by comitting suicide.
(apologies for linking to a previous posting of my own but the Crowley links contained in it are illuminative)
[forum.culteducation.com]
There is no way of predicting how Poolman's craziness will pan out--good reason for anyone currently half-believing in him to take note of any fear they are feeling and step away from the Poolman and all his works.
Sometimes fear, an entirely natural emotion, is useful in telling us what to avoid--a far better use for it than allowing a crazy conman like Poolman to manipulate us by using our own fears against us.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 10:25AM by Stoic.
[en.wikipedia.org])
However, if Poolman is crazy it is a far more calculated and scheming craziness than Applewhite's since his current main motive seems to be to profit from conning his followers into an endless buying of pointless courses.
Of course Applewhite started as a simple conman and got caught up in his own crazy belief system along with his marks--like Crowley he came to believe that his hunchbacks really were soldiers and as a result changed dimensions by comitting suicide.
(apologies for linking to a previous posting of my own but the Crowley links contained in it are illuminative)
[forum.culteducation.com]
There is no way of predicting how Poolman's craziness will pan out--good reason for anyone currently half-believing in him to take note of any fear they are feeling and step away from the Poolman and all his works.
Sometimes fear, an entirely natural emotion, is useful in telling us what to avoid--a far better use for it than allowing a crazy conman like Poolman to manipulate us by using our own fears against us.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 10:25AM by Stoic.
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