Thanks for your input Citizendc, it's appreciated. Interesting to see how Desteni ensure that everyone tows the party line on their forum.

The points you made re: destenitruth were reasonable, and generally, the guy who runs that YouTube channel [www.youtube.com] does have several valid criticisms to make. Personally, I wouldn't go along with his ideas re: god and angels or the illuminati, but I don't see that he is trying to recruit or convert anyone. In any case, the main criticisms he makes do not hinge upon those beliefs.

However, I do perceive a problem in that anyone who tries to criticize Desteni who at the same time professes belief in the higher self, god or angels and/or who cites conspiracy theories as reasons why Desteni is corrupt or a cult will not only be automatically dismissed by Desteni, but they also run the risk of undermining their own arguments by not having any factual basis behind them.

The notion of Bernard Poolman being the Maitreya being just one example. There are many others. The leader of Desteni is the Antichrist, so you'd better not join Desteni because it's evil? That is not a credible argument.

The videos

01 Anti-Desteni Cult Hotline Moment
[www.youtube.com]
02 Anti-Desteni Cult Hotline Moment
[www.youtube.com]

which are a send-up of the anti-Desteni point of view, show that Desteni members are only going to laugh at people who say that Desteni is Satanic, run by the Illuminati, demonic, unholy or against established New Age beliefs etc -- and rightly so.

Other attempts to criticize Desteni are from a philosophical point of view. As shown in those videos, some critics perceive that because Desteni is against love or individualism, free will etc then it is wrong. Again, Desteni members have stock answers to all such questions, but also, the Desteni philosophy is so crude and ridiculous that to try and criticize it on the basis of its philosophical framework makes it seem as though Desteni is worth taking seriously as a philosophy when it isn't. All that approach can lead to is further debate about abstract ideas, which is a distraction from the real issues.

In my view, it is more effective to address Bernard Poolman's Desteni in relation to the precise ways it operates socially as a cult, drawing attention to its characteristic, potentially dangerous methods of indoctrination. Of course, this is already being done in this thread, but I just wanted to reiterate the point that criticizing Desteni according to conspiracy theories or religious, spiritual or philosophical ideas will have a very limited impact in the long run and may in fact be counterproductive.

Has anyone gotten any senior "destinites" into a debate or journalistic confrontation, similar the Jesus Christian group on the Jeremy Kyle TV show or what Fox News did with the Westboro Cult?

As far as I know, the only mainstream media attention Desteni's received is in the Rapport articles from South Africa I gave links to a few posts ago.

More of those interviews are here at [desteni.co.za] but the journalist doesn't challenge the group.

Desteni began around 2007.

It is easy to fool people in print. A video appearance is best because the interactions between a cultist and an objective journalist are always visible even if they choose their words carefully and so the viewers can at least sense that something is wrong.

Hi There,

Quote

However, I do perceive a problem in that anyone who tries to criticize Desteni who at the same time professes belief in the higher self, god or angels and/or who cites conspiracy theories as reasons why Desteni is corrupt or a cult will not only be automatically dismissed by Desteni, but they also run the risk of undermining their own arguments by not having any factual basis behind them.

Good point, they currently expose themselves to be all these things through humor (videos) which works to counter any negative views of them.

Quote

In my view, it is more effective to address Bernard Poolman's Desteni in relation to the precise ways it operates socially as a cult, drawing attention to its characteristic, potentially dangerous methods of indoctrination. Of course, this is already being done in this thread, but I just wanted to reiterate the point that criticizing Desteni according to conspiracy theories or religious, spiritual or philosophical ideas will have a very limited impact in the long run and may in fact be counterproductive.

I've been thinking along similar lines. If you attempt to come at them from another belief or view they will simply use their existing material/understanding to explain it away.
Focusing on how their cult operates would be more effective in spreading awareness.

Its totally correct that any type of "argument" with Desteni about their "new age philosophies" is an endless loop, which experienced Destenians can easily twist around in circles.
The "discussion" is basically pointless, as that is how these groups find new members, they intially seem to encourage debate, but that is just a way to hook new members.

The best ways to expose these groups, seem to be:

- former members coming forward, specifically and accurately (without exaggeration) describing exactly what goes on behind closed doors, in their courses, the prices, upselling, sales tactics. Once the public really knows about the tricks being used, and then sees Desteni using them, they don't work very well.


- those who are experienced with cults and sects, describing in detail the specific TECHNIQUES being used by guys like Bernard Poolman on people. That is the real key, to dissect the techniques of manipulation and persuasion being used. Once people see those, its game over for Bernard Poolman.

To the trained-eye, Bernard Poolman is a 4th-rate hack, but he still is running a lot of very sophisticated techniques on people, like getting them to re-language almost their entire vocabulary.

But even being able to see the most basic techniques being used by Poolman, shows the crock of BS he is trying to peddle, using the Big Lie technique.
Bernard Poolman doesn't really believe this "channeling" stuff.
Its more logical that Poolman himself got duped and scammed when he was younger in various sects, and now wants to be the one calling the shots.
And the megalomania of being a cultish "leader" takes over very quickly.

It would not be surprising AT ALL if Bernard Poolman himself was the one creating the fake-rumors that Bernard Poolman is The Antichrist.

Its the same technique being used by Desteni when they made their own terribly acted videos about the Desteni Sex Cult Farm Exposed. They use that technique a lot, to apply the CULT label to themselves first, then re-language it.

Bernard Poolman would LOVE it if people think he is The Antichrist, its more attention for him.
Bernard Poolman is not the Antichrist, he's just a 4th-rate cultish leader wannabe, who dreams of running his own cult like OSHO-Rajneesh.

Quote
The Anticult
To the trained-eye, Bernard Poolman is a 4th-rate hack, but he still is running a lot of very sophisticated techniques on people, like getting them to re-language almost their entire vocabulary.

Here's an example of one of Poolman's attempts at re-inventing language from the Desteni Forum at [desteni.co.za] ...

"As the words we live is the living words we are it is important to note what we participate in through implication or through tacit agreement and allowance

when using the words Good Bye --you wish the person to participate in consumerism through looking for things to buy that will enhance their value of Goods

rather use the following greeting

Die Well

this indicate that you live in self honesty and equality and are ready to die without deception or regret at any moment" -- Bernard Poolman, "Good Bye"

The word, "Goodbye" is not a greeting, but a farewell. It was in use long before consumerism. The original meaning is "God be with you", but most people use "bye" which would mean "be with you" or they say, "see you" or use some other variation. "Goodbye" would be too formal.

Poolman suggests Desteni members say "Die Well" as a way of enforcing a group-think mentality in opposition to standard conventions of language. Sounds a bit nihilistic, as though one expects one's companion to die before one sees them again, like saying, "go away and die".

A fake interpretation of words where they are understood according to similarities to the sounds or spelling of other words takes place on the Desteni forum quite often, which is how they end up with "Shame-Poo" or "Con-ditioner" when referring to a dislike of hair products (get it?). This rather childish technique of re-framing words in Desteni has been covered quite well in the video, "Desteni Dishonesty Part 2" -- [www.youtube.com]

Apart from showing complete ignorance of the root meanings of words and how the English language functions, the Desteni fuhrer uses this technique to manufacture thought-terminating cliches and jargon specific to Desteni so that he can ensure compliance from his fans. He knows that if he can get them to go so far as to demonstrate a willingness to alter the way they speak, write and understand words according to his instructions then he is one step ahead in manipulating their thoughts and behavior on a personal level. Uncle Bernie is operating on the basis that if he can re-define his fans' understanding of reality then they may have no recourse to any form of meaning other than that supplied by Desteni.

Therefore, he hopes to regard them as subservient to his wishes. It has worked up to a point but whether his plan will continue to unfold as Mr Poolman would like or not remains to be seen because after only a few years it's still in very early stages.

"die well" also sounds like a threat.

Thanks for posting the horseshit from Bernard Poolman about the word Goodbye.
The etymology of Goodbye is also listed here.
[www.etymonline.com]
"good-bye
also goodbye, good bye, 1590s, from godbwye (1570s), itself a contraction of God be with ye, influenced by good day, good evening, etc."


Bernard Poolman does use quite sophisticated techniques to manipulate and CONTROL (con-trol) his followers cognitive functions, and meaning-making structures of their thinking processes, and beliefs.
That is extremely powerful.
All cult leaders work very hard to do that.


Poolman (aka Toolman), also tries to control and manipulate their sexualities.
Never mind their use of haircare products.

Poolman (aka Toolman) is using some complex techniques.
Buts its also important to call it like it is, using everyday common sense language.

Bernard Poolman is utterly full of shit. He is a bullshit artist. A con-man.
Toolman's main tool, is simply telling the BIG LIE, over and over.
Lies lies lies lies.

He knows they are lies, of course, as do his main colleagues. They think its funny and amusing to hook people in using lies, as then they try to tell them that everything in society is a lie, and everything they believe is a lie.
Its the exact same cultic technique used by countless cults.


Guys like him literally have contempt for the "stupid public" which is why they try to exploit them and use them with such utter LIES and BULLSHIT, like Toolman's lies about "Goodbye".
The guy is a constant liar, and is probably also trapped in his own delusional grandiosity where he believes he is going to be the new L Ron Hubbard of Desteni-Scientology, or a New Age Bernie Desteni-Hitler.


Desteni is probably using the 2010 FIFA Soccer World Cup in South Africa for Desteni spamming too.
Search Google for:

Desteni fifa world cup -destiny



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2010 01:53AM by The Anticult.

@ Citizendc

Can you say, if you were involved in taking any specific Desteni "online courses", the ones that they charge money for, or was it more of a general online involvement, using online posting and YouTube?


For those who were into Desteni for a period of months or years, a good way to break out of Desteni-Speak, is to simply stop using the Bernard Poolman Desteni-Newspeak, and go back to one's natural way of speaking, writing, and thinking.
Poolman's goal is to get a person to think, speak, and write in Desteni Newspeak, once a person does that, then Poolman knows he has enormous control and influence over that person.



[en.wikipedia.org]
Newspeak is a fictional language in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four.
List of Newspeak words [en.wikipedia.org]
In George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, the fictional language Newspeak attempts to influence thought by influencing the expressiveness of the English language.

Goodsex and sexcrime
Goodsex is any form of sex considered acceptable by the Party; specifically, this refers only to married heterosexual sex for the exclusive purpose of providing new children for the Party. All other forms of sex are considered sexcrime.