Cameron Cope:

You are talking in circles.

Sunette's supposed presentation of historical figures isn't like previously published news articles, court documents or other information at this Web site. Sunette's communications are based upon believing that she is actually a channel using a "portal" so that historical figures and beings can speak through her.

You have already said that you don't believe this.

You are avoiding the inevitable conclusion, which is that this would mean that Sunette is either acting out a role and a fraud, or that she is delusional and disturbed.

The "usefulness of the information" provided by such a fraud or delusional person is dubious at best, i.e. Sunette is not speaking for the being claimed and therefore whatever life experience she claims through that person is false and any subsequent conclusions based upon that fiction.

Why do you persist in defending Destini if you don't believe in Sunette or the premise of her communications?

Certainly you must realize that Bernard Poolman and the others posting here, unlike you, do believe in her.

Why is "Destini Education" called Destini?

Why did you choose that name specifically and what role do Destini and Mr. Poolman play in your for-profit education business?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2010 05:16AM by rrmoderator.

a few interesting links, search Google for:

"bernard poolman" "Aleister Crowley"


The name Cathy Krafft is there too, with hundreds of links.

"Cathy krafft" desteni


There are Usenet posts about Desteni going back to 2007.
[groups.google.com]


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Process : Self-Honesty
Filed under: Posts , 'Break Your Boundaries, Abraham, Bernard Poolman, big money, ... Filed under: Posts , 2012, Abraham-Hicks, Alchemy, Aleister Crowley, ...
darrylthomas.wordpress.com/


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Video duration: 134 seconds
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rrmoderator

Why is "Destini Education" called Destini?

Why did you choose that name specifically and what role do Destini and Mr. Poolman play in your for-profit education business?

Because I agree with the principle of doing what is Best for All. This is the directive principle of Desteni as well as Desteni Education as well as myself personally.

Bernard offers his advice from time to time when called upon and his perspective is considered along with others and the one that is deemed to be in the best interest of all is chosen and acted upon.

He has no legal or financial or otherwise controlling interest in our business.

i chose the name desteni education because I like it.

--Cameron

What I have noticed throughout my participation in this thread is that the few of the participants who are negatively critical of Desteni do not actually say what it is about Desteni's message that is actually detrimental to others. They are only using broad statements to classify Desteni as a cult but not actually demonstrating any points where Desteni is actually harmful. Lots of analogies are used, but no objective verifiable, study-based, peer reviewed evidence is offered as to exactly how Desteni specifically has harmed anyone. This is an obvious double standard.

Just saying that Desteni uses language to control people's minds is irrelevant because everyone does this. When you tell someone you love them you are trying to produce a recognition in them to either feel loved or to believe and know that you love them. If you say thank you to someone the same principle applies. The government uses these methods. Advertising uses these methods. this is how the system we live in works. I would suggest that you consider that the whole world we live in is one vast cult made up of smaller cults (called nations, cities, companies, schools, clubs, gangs, races, etc). Just wach MTV and see how cultish the behavior displayed on there is. Watch the shopping channel. Go to the mall and observe people. Observe yourself for that matter. To be a human is to be in a cult. That is why we all live in different CULTures.

What you may not realize is that this is an integral part of what Desteni is saying. They are saying "stop participating in Cults". Stand up for yourself. Stand up for Life. Become responsible for your thoughts and actions. Start considering what is best for everyone and not just your immediate gratification.

--Cameron

I am a little sad that such an active thread as this is nothing more than subterfuge and circular logic by Destini members (yes, even Destini Education in Texas and not related at all in anyway possible to the South African org.)

I was personally hoping for a direct dialog where truth and honesty (or at least as far as the Destini members might be concerned) could come out.

Many people in "fringe" or new orgs think that right away this forum will attack them. This is not true. I, for one, wish to learn more about them. I, however, do not wish to learn more if I must travel to South Africa and eat a low-protein diet for four months working on a farm for free and potentially getting "love bombed". That is where I draw the line so the response of "You must experience it" is moot with me.

Why is it so hard for us to commuinicate? I understand that Destinin apparently has a different approach to communication (beLIEve, etc) and therefore it is hard to give any modicum of trust in return.

I would think that Destini Education (an entirely different org with U.S. registry and no possible link to Destini South Africa) will be willing to invite recognised education experts (of their choosing) to evaluate their new language skill techniques.

Imagine how much money Destini Education could make with a seal of approval of the education community? How many would be well served? It could be a boon for humanity (seriously, no joke meant in the least).

Stop the circular logic, please. Save that for your "affiliates" who know your internal lingo. I am writing here as simply and as sincerely as I can in this circumstance.

Can you stop your "circular speak" for one moment to explain what your education program is (since you don't and can't speak for Poolman by your own admission, and as you stated Poolman has nothing to do with Destini America) and please be specific. I do not expect you to devulge your exact techniques (that would be anti-capitalist of me, and capitalism is not a belief-system of Destini as far as I can glean).

Just tell us if, since you are a principal, you have scheduled plans for educational examination of your techniques in a controlled scientific environment. You yourself have claimed to see many great results in children...you owe it to the world, don't you? Science will see it the same way if you are right and your Destini technique will sweep the US and the world.

Please forgive my Non-Destini vocabulary. I hope (and expect) your clearly educated response in a Non-Destini vernacular. It will make our communication clearer to me.

Thanks

Sparky



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2010 08:38AM by Sparky.

@sparky

Desteni Education would be more than willing to engage in scientific studies showing the benefits and/or results of using our software. At the moment, we are in the process of looking for groups willing to do that very thing, however as of right now there is nothing ready to be published. Of course once there is, it will be made available on our website. Thanks for the support and if you have any contacts that would be interested in conducting a scientific study please, let me know or direct them to our contact page on our website.

As far as how the software works, obviously I can't divulge proprietary information, but I can explain the principles behind the software.

We at Desteni Education realized that many reading problems are caused by a lack of proper vocabulary. For instance if you are reading a book and you come across words you have never seen before then you are likely to become frustrated or at the very least your reading speed will be slowed considerably. For instance if you were to right now pick up a book on quantum mechanics, it would be very difficult to read, because you do not have the vocabulary to do so. The same would apply with a medical textbook for instance.

Other reading problems can occur because children are taught to sound out words instead of being able to recognize whole words at sight. This can be confusing for children who encounter a word like 'ice' which if sounded out would be pronounced something like "ikky", lol. or 'their' would sound like 'ta-he-ir' for example.

So, realizing that children would be able to fix some reading disorders if they could find an effective way to build their vocabulary we developed our Vocabulary Builder program. It is editable by the user so one can put any words they want to learn in it. We have also supplied word lists in the program that follow the curriculum of Texas schools by grade level as set forth in the Texas Department of Education guidelines. I won't go into the details of how the program works, but it builds in words much faster than other techniques based on memory such as flash cards or sounding words out.

The other program we have available is the Read Program. This program tests the reading speed of the user and determines whether the user is reading at a sufficient speed for their age and grade level. We use nationally and globally recognized standards. The user is also tested on their comprehension to determine if they are understanding what they are reading at the speed they are reading at.

The Read Program takes the user through a sequence that involves reading comprehension, eye exercises to increase the eye's ability to move across the page at a faster rate, and vocabulary exercises to provide and test definitions of new words.

To be honest the principles used in our programs are not that extraordinary. They are rather simple, which is cool because even children are able to see for themselves how the program works. The point that is missed by most educational software companies though is the importance of building a strong vocabulary. Did you know that the English language has over 600,000 words, but the average person only knows about 10,000. That is a big gap and means that the average person is at a great disadvantage when it comes to processing information (reading).

This is the basic idea of how the programs work and the principles behind them. If you have any more questions or anything is still unclear please, just let me know specifically so I can answer most effectively. Thanks.


--Cameron

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Cameron Cope
Sandman,

It 'appears' that we are doing this as a means of 'promoting Desteni as a way of life' to you because you allow yourself to make assumptions and then present them as if they are facts. The fact is that 'Desteni Education' is a for-profit company based in Houston, Texas which sells software to correct reading disorders and accelerate reading abilities.

What has this to do with promoting Desteni as a way of life? Are you saying you would rather children have a life in which they are not given tools to learn to read effectively?

It seems strange that you try to dissociate Desteni Education from Desteni of South Africa.

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Cameron Cope
We have many competitors which have nothing to do with Desteni Universe in South Africa, and yet for some reason you believe that we are promoting Desteni as a way of life by selling reading software. What about those other companies, like "houghton mifflin" or "creative education institute". Because they do not share the name Desteni, yet do the exact same thing, they are somehow exempt from your scrutiny?

We're talking about Desteni and the fact that your business sells the Desteni 'Vocabulary Purifier', not having some conversation about how business fares between companies that sell educational software.

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Cameron Cope
Do some research on the Desteni Education website and give your perspective on how our reading software is "indoctrinating children". Give specific examples from the website.

I've already explained how Desteni can indoctrinate people, as have several others on this thread. Specific examples have been given. The Desteni 'Vocabulary Purifier' software, invented by the Desteni group of South Africa is another way in which that indoctrination may be carried out.

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Cameron Cope
Don't speak in generalizations that only expose the fact that you did not read all of the material on the site but only read enough to validate your own opinions.

Perhaps you could explain how you imagine that any business that actively supports Desteni and sells its products could not possibly be a means of promoting the Desteni world-view.

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Cameron Cope
Do you actually have any integrity or are you willing to say anything as long as you feel like you've won something?

My integrity is not at stake, there's nothing to win or lose.

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Cameron Cope
@sandman
you are presenting false information as fact. Desteni Education is a joint partnership owned solely by myself and Katherine Conklin registered in Houston Texas. It is not run by Esteni De Wet or Bernard Poolman. You may come visit us in Houston if you need proof or look up our business registration information with Harris County, Texas.

Thanks for the invite, but I have not said your business was run by Esteni De Wet or Bernard Poolman. Your business does not need to be run by either of them for it to represent Desteni.

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Cameron Cope
Your credibility is on the line here when you present opinion as fact.

You have presented facts as though they were ideas. You run a business that represents and promotes a product created by Desteni, which you approve of and recommend. Why you should want to make it seem as though the two things are not connected I don't know.

@ the anticult, sparky, sandman, and rrmoderator

I am not trying to dissociate my business from Desteni in south africa. the problem here is that you have made assumptions that Desteni is a cult and are stating things are blatantly false. Some here have even posted insinuations that Desteni may be involved in child molestation which is absolutely false and is completey irresponsible on the part of the person posting such things.

You must understand that I run a business. My goal is to help children to read more effectively and at the same time make money. This is the nature of business in our world. We are compensated for our labor and service to others. How would you feel if someone were to accuse the company you or your relatives work for of being involved in cult or illegal activities, with no actual substantial information to make the claim. you would probably tell them to just visit you at work and see for yourself that no such thing is tolerated or allowed. they may refuse out of fear but what else could you do?

if you actually thought for one second that Desteni was actually dangerous, why wouldn't you just call the police or file a report with the FBI or some other investigative authority. Instead you sit at home from on your computer making outlandish claims on an internet forum, without considering the effects it has on the lives of real people with real jobs.

Can you give even one example of a documented case of abuse that was verified or even filed with any governmental authority against Desteni? If not, why speculate on such things. What if your neighbor, because they didn't quite like you accused you and told all your other neighbors that you were a child molester? She might say 'well i don't have any proof but I can tell, because i have heard rumors and he fits the profile'. can you imagine what that would do to your life? Do you accept any responsibility for your words or is this all a game to you?

realize that this forum has represented itself to the public as a place to find information on dangerous organizations. people look to you for guidance. do not abuse those who would in innocence believe the claims you make when you know full well that they are not substantial.

please have some integrity, post facts, do actual professional research, do the studies, get them peer reviewed, get them published. share the findings. hold yourself to the same standards you expect from others.


--Cameron Cope

Its frankly absurd to try and disconnect Desteni Education, from Destiny Productions South Africa.
As shown in this thread, Bernard Poolman, and the principals of Desteni Education are the ones who have LINKED them! They did it on their own facebook pages and websites.
One of the principals for Desteni Education was shown in this very thread, to be doing Desteni muscle-testing auditing with the Desteni girl on the Desteni Farm in South Africa.
Now they are trying to backtrack?

(no they are trying to drive a Desteni-newspeak wedge into the issue, like the one about the beLIEving.)
Desenti and Estenti...yes of course, they are totally unrelated, one has a D in it.

This is like saying...sir is your fridge running? Yes. Then you better go catch it.
Its that absurdist use of language at play here.



But who "designed" the Desteni Education so-called "technology"?
Where is it from?

In any actual (real) educational software product, they have a listing of who wrote and designed the thing. For example, Dr. Joe Blough from Harvard, who's written such and such books, and has published education articles for the last 20 years, and who has taught teachers for 20 years.

So who wrote it?
Guess who?

Landmark Education also tries to say that Werner Erhard is not responsible for Landmark, but in fact, Werner Erhard is the guy who wrote the entire process, and he was getting paid royalities from it every since.
Who wrote the "free" Scientology auditing material?
How about the Scientology front-companies, they claim to have nothing to do with Scientology.

So obviously the people in Texas purchased/leased a license to market the Desteni material from the owners of the Trademarks for Desteni Productions. All one would have to do is look up who owns those trademarks they are using in their business.

If they have not registered trademarks, then anyone can go and open up their own Desteni Channeling Inc.

But whoops, not so fast.
Of course Desteni owns those trademarks, so Desteni Education in the USA would have had to have purchased/licensed a trademark license for use.
Look at all the business details on their website, Desteni is an online marketing business.

And yes, Desteni South Africa has registered all the trademarks and logos, and if you use them they say they will sue you.
So if Desteni Education does not have a license from Desteni, they will sue them.
Of course they have a "license" or however they are doing the deal. Desteni is the one promoting Desteni Education.

_____________quote________________
www.desteni.co.za/shop/conditions.php
Consent
"I understand that all the trademarks and logos are registered to Desteni and hereby accept the terms and conditions. I undertake not to copy/duplicate the trademarks and designs directly or indirectly in anyway and understand the legal implications thereof. Should I be found to be in violation of this agreement I understand that I will be held liable for all legal costs incurred by Desteni for any civil action or any legal action deemed necessary against me."

______________________

Desteni has all sorts of products for sale.

More Hitler at the top of the page.
So Bernard Poolman and Desteni Productions is trying to claim that Hitler was working with the "Illuminati".
If people really start to believe this junk, and sadly some people do, terrible things can happen. Really sickening to see these guys trying to get attention by using Adolf Hitler. That is beyond sick. (is it even legal to have that material on internet servers in Germany?)

In the series, Desteni claims to have information about Adolf Hitler's:
- childhood, seeing demons and monsters,
- What is REAL?
- I found no God on earth
- I discovered secret societies
- I worked with Illuminati
- Understanding the Illuminati
- Money and Illuminati
- Adolf Hitler, Return To Innocence


_____________quote___________________
[desteni.co.za]

Adolf Hitler - Video DVD's - Entire series
R855.00

The Adolf Hitler series is a compilation of DesteniProduction interviews.

This series consists of 15 video-interviews in which Adolf Hitler explains himself as who he was here on Earth and what happened to him after crossing over. Also gives some insight into Earth's process.

The Adolf Hitler Video-DVD series consists of 3 DVD's. To buy specific DVD's in this series, go to Adolf Hitler - Video DVD's - Single DVD's.

For the complete video listing for this product click here
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