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RUDOLF STEINER QUOTES: Innoculations against the inclination to entertain spiritual ideas
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RUDOLF STEINER 1861-1925


Founder of the Waldorf Schools-Christian Mystic Clairvoyant

Founder of Bio Dynamic Agriculture

The whole trend goes in a direction where a way will finally be found to vaccinate bodies so that these bodies will not allow the inclination towards spiritual ideas to develop and all their lives people will believe only in the physical world they perceive with the senses. Out of impulses which the medical profession gained from presumption ” oh, I beg your pardon, from the consumption they themselves suffered ” people are now vaccinated against consumption, and in the same way they will be vaccinated against any inclination towards spirituality. This is merely to give you a particularly striking example of many things which will come in the near and more distant future in this field ” the aim being to bring confusion into the impulses which want to stream down to earth after the victory of the spirits of light.” Read original lecture…


-Rudolf Steiner: Fall of the Spirits of Darkness Lecture 13 The Fallen Spririts’ Influence in the World, Dornach, 27, Oct. 1917

A longing will arise(and become)general opinion:Whatever is spiritual, whatever is of the spirit, is nonsense, is madness! Endeavours to achieve this will be made by bringing out remedies to be administered by inoculation just as inoculations have been developed as a protection against diseases, only these inoculations will influence the human body in a way that will make it refuse to give a home to the spiritual inclinations of the soul. People will be inoculated against the inclination to entertain spiritual ideas. Endeavours in this direction will be made; inoculations will be tested that already in childhood will make people lose any urge for spiritual life.

Rudolf Steiner, Lecture 3, Secret Brotherhoods and the Mystery of the Human Double: Seven Lectures. Read original lecture…

Book Review 2010 by Bobby Matherne containing more Steiner comments on Vaccination…

Again, as he did on page 85, Rudolf Steiner warns us of a vaccine, an anti-religious vaccine, which will inoculate us against having a soul, an anti-spiritual vaccine which will ensure the success of the dark spirits in completely materializing many as human beings(10). This warning came almost a hundred years ago perhaps that vaccine already exists and is affecting our children and young adults today.

[page 199, 200] Steiner: I have told you that the spirits of darkness are going to inspire their human hosts, in whom they will be dwelling, to find a vaccine that will drive all inclination towards spirituality out of people’s souls when they are very young, and this will happen in a roundabout way through the living body. Today, bodies are vaccinate against one thing and another; in future, children will be vaccinated with a substance which it will certainly be possible to produce, and this will make them immune, so that they do not develop foolish inclinations connected with spiritual life ‘foolish’ here, of course, in the eyes of materialists.


Footnote 10. Suppose such a vaccine existed today which inoculated children at a young age…. There would seem to be some epidemic of children being born who do not maturate like children, they would be unable to store feelings of their early childhood, they would have trouble acclimating themselves to other human beings, they will seem extremely intelligent with sharp calculating skills, almost machine-like precision of drawing and copying skills. Does this not sound familiar to the recent concerns of the sudden rise in the incidence of autism and its possible connection to certain vaccination processes? Have the anti-soul vaccinations already begun?




Posted on 08.14.10 · Tagged with

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5 Responses to “RUDOLF STEINER QUOTES: Innoculations against the inclination to entertain spiritual ideas”

Editor says:
December 13, 2010 at 9:33 am
It is happening today. The remnant people after the collapse of another great civilization will have to take up the organization of a new world more in harmony with all levels of existence.

Michael Joseph says:
April 3, 2011 at 9:49 am
30+ vaccines are reccommended by the American Pediatric Association for children by the age of 3. Why no association with autism and vaccinations? Because the government and the phamaceuticals are in bed together. Check out the largest law suit settlements in the last ten years. Lo and behold, it’s all the pharmaceutical companies. Do you think you can trust those two partners to create vaccines for your children? Your children have no need for vaccines, they are not born with vaccine deficiencies! Think about it!

Artemis Family says:
April 26, 2011 at 5:23 pm
This is interesting. As a trained Waldorf teacher I am always interested to read something by Steiner, and this one amazes me – if I read it 15 years ago, I am happy to be refreshed. I think we can all understand this. Anything that prohibits people’s thinking past the secular world is a problem. Certainly drugs “dumb down” the mind and thinking process. Vaccinations are a mere extension of this. If I wanted to say a prayer and commune with God and my higher self, I certainly would not “alter” my mindset. This is only common sense.

Anon says:
June 7, 2011 at 3:59 pm
Look up FunVax…its becoming true…

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Taliban opposes polio vaccination/Spokesman, Islamic Medical Association (UK) opposes vaccination : Vaccine Liberation Army says:

January 24, 2011 at 6:35 pm
[...] Christian clairvoyant and mystic Rudolf Steiner, founder of biodynamic agriculture and the international Waldorf Education System stated that inoculations would preclude the ability to think spiritually…link.. [...]

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HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS
New York State Childhood Vaccine Schedule
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Download NYS Childhood Vaccine Schedule

Posted on 05.17.11 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS
Join Church at large for vaccine exemptions
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Join Church of Illumination. (associated with Beverly Hall Corporation, and Philosophical Publishing Company) [www.soul.org]
‘The Church of Illumination is also by its tenets opposed to immunization for its adherents. Since it is a “Church at Large,” they are able to enroll members throughout the entire United States and would be pleased to consider any applicant who is without present church affiliation and who desires the legitimate support of others in his convictions.’ See more options….

Theosophy also declares vaccines against the tenets…

Universal Family Church (NY): We believe God intends individuals to be the ultimate authority when making health decisions for themselves (1st Corinthians19)

NOTE: IF YOU WANT A RELIGIOUS VACCINE EXEMPTION, you must stay on track and not also give medical reasons for your wish for exemption. Using this dual motion has been ruled against in court…and religious exemption plaintiff failed.

Posted on 03.28.11 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS, National Vaccine Information Center
Vaccine Exemptions Threatened Feb. 2011
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Mercola commentary…

Posted on 03.01.11 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS, Vaccine Injection Room
Legislative arguments for Vaccine philosophical exemptions: A moral and ethical imperative
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(Natural News) The arguments are presented below. They are not comprehensive – books have been written on some of these topics – but the goal with legislatures is to make strong, concise arguments with credible support. Their time is often limited, and their ability to hear alternative points of view potentially limited as well. The question is not so much “What is the whole truth?” as it is “What will get the job done?” The actual letter is available at [www.vaccinerights.com]… and revisions to the arguments may appear in the future on the Vaccine Rights website as well. Learn more: Read and present the arguments for philosophical exemption to your legislature. Vaccine Injury leads to use of psyche drugs. Bewared of psyche drug funding through legislation.

Posted on 02.22.11 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS
Gillick Law: Underage students can opt out of vaccines against parents’ wishes
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A child of twelve was charged with ‘threatening behaviour’ at his school in Bowmanville, East of Toronto last week. The arrest happened when the boy (who cannot be named for legal reasons) threw a tantrum refusing the Hepatitis B vaccine. Read more…

GILLICK LAW…the court held that ‘parental rights’ did not exist, other than to safeguard the best interests of a minor. The majority held that in some circumstances a minor could consent to treatment, and that in these circumstances a parent had no power to veto treatment.

GILLICK LAW…cited on LawTeacher.net. When referring to the phrase Gillick competence, commentators are normally discussing the ability of a minor to make his or her own choices and have such choices upheld by the law. Most commonly, discussion relates to medical treatment and stems from the case of Gillick v W Norfolk and Wisbech AHA. Essentially, it is necessary to examine how the courts have handled the issues relating to children as decision makers, balancing such choices to the views of the parents or guardians and ultimately whether such views can overrule those of the child.


Posted on 12.05.10 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS
Vaccine Laws and Exemptions by State
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Go to vaccine information, John Hopkins School of Heath

Pink: Religious Exemptions Green: Philosophical or personal beliefs

Michigan law on vaccine exemptions, for example:

According to the National Vaccine Information Center, the relevant law is MCL § 333.9215 (2007):


§ 333.9215. Exemption of child; immunization detrimental to health or not appropriate, physician certificate; religious convictions or other objections, parent’s written statement.

Sec. 9215.

(1) A child is exempt from the requirements of this part as to a specific immunization for any period of time as to which a physician certifies that a specific immunization is or may be detrimental to the child’s health or is not appropriate.

(2) A child is exempt from this part if a parent, guardian, or person in loco parentis of the child presents a written statement to the administrator of the child’s school or operator of the group program to the effect that the requirements of this part cannot be met because of religious convictions or other objection to immunization.

Posted on 12.01.10 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS, Propaganda Room
Vaccine Exemptions under attack
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This summer, inaccurate and misleading information about B. pertussis whooping cough and the pertussis vaccine is being put out…

Go to article…
More exemption news from VacLib.org

Posted on 11.11.10 · Tagged with

Articles & Breaking News, Government experimentation on the public, HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS, Liberty & Freedom Room, RESEARCH, STUDIES, DOCUMENTATION, Strategy Room
Healthcare Workers-Forced vaccinations: Consitutional arguments
Posted by Editor · 1 Comment

Charles Griffin, attorney, has asked the court for an injunction to stop AnMed from enforcing the mandated policy until a hearing is held on the suit. He said, “the state constitution provides that “citizens shall be free from unreasonable invasions of privacy’. Being forced to have an injection or something forced up one’s nostrils is clearly an invasion of privacy”.
Go to site for Constitutional support, citations, arguments for personal sovereignty


Posted on 11.04.10 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS, National Vaccine Information Center
State Public School Vaccination Requirements
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Map of Public school requirements by State

Posted on 11.02.10 · Tagged with

HOW TO GET VACCINE EXEMPTIONS, Spirituality & Meditation
Theosophy: Condemns innoculations
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President of the Theosophy Society, 1907

“It (Theosophy) declares that all inoculations of disease into the healthy body are illegitimate, and it condemns all such. It declares that all those foul injections of modern medicine which use animal fluids to restore the exhausted vitality of man are ruinous to the body into which they are put” pg 173, London Lectures of 1907 by Annie Besant. Book sold on Amazon

Read her lectures…Can Theosophists claim a religious exemption?

Posted on 06.02.10 · Tagged with

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RUDOLF STEINER QUOTES: Innoculations against the inclination to entertain spiritual ideas
RUDOLF STEINER 1861-1925


Founder of the Waldorf Schools-Christian Mystic Clairvoyant

Founder of Bio Dynamic Agriculture

The whole trend goes in a direction where a way will finally be found to vaccinate bodies so that these bodies will not allow the inclination towards spiritual ideas to develop and all their lives people will believe only in the physical world they perceive with the senses. Out of impulses which the medical profession gained from presumption ” oh, I beg your pardon, from the consumption they themselves suffered ” people are now vaccinated against consumption, and in the same way they will be vaccinated against any inclination towards spirituality. This is merely to give you a particularly striking example of many things which will come in the near and more distant future in this field ” the aim being to bring confusion into the impulses which want to stream down to earth after the victory of the spirits of light.” (excerpted from longer lecture here)
[wn.rsarchive.org]

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Rudolf Steiner: Fall of the Spirits of Darkness Lecture 13 The Fallen Spririts’ Influence in the World, Dornach, 27, Oct. 1917

A longing will arise(and become)general opinion:Whatever is spiritual, whatever is of the spirit, is nonsense, is madness! Endeavours to achieve this will be made by bringing out remedies to be administered by inoculation just as inoculations have been developed as a protection against diseases, only these inoculations will influence the human body in a way that will make it refuse to give a home to the spiritual inclinations of the soul. People will be inoculated against the inclination to entertain spiritual ideas. Endeavours in this direction will be made; inoculations will be tested that already in childhood will make people lose any urge for spiritual life.

Rudolf Steiner, Lecture 3, Secret Brotherhoods and the Mystery of the Human Double: Seven Lectures [books.google.com]

Book Review 2010 by Bobby Matherne containing more Steiner comments on Vaccination…[www.doyletics.com]

Again, as he did on page 85, Rudolf Steiner warns us of a vaccine, an anti-religious vaccine, which will inoculate us against having a soul, an anti-spiritual vaccine which will ensure the success of the dark spirits in completely materializing many as human beings(10). This warning came almost a hundred years ago perhaps that vaccine already exists and is affecting our children and young adults today.

Quote

One of the major reasons that Theosophy and Anthroposophy are difficult to define and outline concisely is that both doctrines continually redefine basic concepts (such as Logos, Christ, soul, spirit, plane, and so forth) according to the immediate demands of the point under discussion. The understanding of the various terms also change with time, topic, exegete, and the point of the argument: Mrs Besant and Rudolf Steiner, for example, frequently (though not always), mean very different things when they use the word Logos; thier definitions are, in turn, different from either the traditional Christian or Gnostic understanding of that important term. At the same time, enough points of coincidence lull the reader into a false sense of identity of concepts. The esultis that becomes impossible to get a real grip on what should be basic building block ideas.

Furthermore, occultists tend to develop their arguments not by deduction or even induction, but by analogy. The reader, at the time of reading, momentarily senses the relationship of terms and intuitively or sympathetically perceives parallel; afterward, undnerstanding vanishes.

(Corboy note: I am not sure, but perhaps this alludes to the kind of dream like primary process thought one encounters in dreams or in the thought process of children too young to be capable of former logic. This is richly creative for artists, but incompatible with adult logic and scientific and historical problem solving. If one cannot retain logical grasp of such material, that means that one is always left insecure and in need of a 'Master'. It is not ones own fault--the text has been written out in a manner that mimics adult logic but that is actually pre-logical and possibly for some readers, hypnotic. I am trying to figure this out on my own and for that reason made sure to get a photocopy of this foot note. SAWs texts perhaps have a similar effect on readers. )

"Finally (Carlson continues) not only do the Theosophists constantly redefine their own terms, but they "translate" the statements of non Theosophists into their own terminology, invariably muddling the translation. Their definitions of basic concepts are unfortunately so loose and subjective that just about any alien concept can be subsumed by them. Thus, for example, Anne Kamenskaia, discussing Fedor Dostoevsky (who was not much taken with oriental philosophy) blithely attributes to him the idea that mankind will achieve spiritual heights not through sorrow and suffering, but through the radiant flight of an exultant soul liberated from the chains of karma (!), although Dostoevsky would never have chosen to express himself in that way.

(Maria Carlson, No Religion Higher Than Truth: A History of the Thesophical Movement in Russia 1875-1922 Princeton University 1993, page 229, footnote to Chapter 5: Theosophical Doctrine: An Outline.

quote]

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In Rosicrucianism, therefore, we can observe in the highest sense that impulse of Christianity which finds twofold expression: on the one hand in the Son-element, in the Christ-working which goes down deeply into the subconscious; on the other, in the Spirit-working which embraces all that falls within the horizon of our consciousness.

We must indeed bear the Christ in our Will; but the way in which men should come to an understanding with each other in life concerning the Christ can be found only — in the Rosicrucian sense — through a conscious soul-life which penetrates ever more deeply into the occult.

In reaction against many other spiritual streams in Europe, the opposite way was taken by those who are usually called Jesuits.

The radical, fundamental difference between what we justifiably call the Christian way of the Spirit and the Jesuit way of the Spirit, which gives a one-sided exaggeration to the Jesus-Principle, is that the intention of the Jesuit way is to work directly, at all times, upon the Will.

The difference is clearly shown in the method by which the pupil of Jesuitism is educated.

Jesuitism is not to be taken lightly, or merely exoterically, but also esoterically, for it is rooted in esotericism.

It is not, however, rooted in the spiritual life that is poured out through the symbol of Pentecost, but it seeks to root itself directly in the Jesus-element of the Son, which means in the Will; and thereby it exaggerates the Jesus-element of the Will.

This will be seen when we now enquire into the esoteric part of Jesuitism, its various spiritual exercises.

How were these exercises arranged? The essential point is that every single pupil of Jesuitism goes through exercises which lead into the occult life, but into the Will, and within the field of occultism they hold the Will in severe discipline; they ‘break it in’, one might say.

And the significant fact is that this discipline of the Will does not arise merely from the surface of life, but from something deeper, because the pupil has been led into the occult, in the way just indicated.

If now, leaving aside the exercises of prayer preparatory to all Jesuit exercises, we consider these occult exercises, at least in their chief points, we find that the pupil has first to call up a vivid Imagination of Christ Jesus as the King of the Worlds — mark this carefully: an Imagination.

And no one would be received into the degrees of Jesuitism who had not gone through such exercises, and had not experienced in his soul the transformation which such psychic exercises mean for the whole man.

But this Imaginative presentation of Christ Jesus as King of the Worlds has to be preceded by something else.

The pupil has to call up for himself, in absolute solitude and seclusion, a picture of man as he was created in the world, and how by falling into sin he incurred the possibility of most terrible punishments.

And it is strictly prescribed how one must picture such a man; how if he were left to himself he would incur the utmost of torturing penalties. The rules are extraordinarily severe.

With all other concepts or ideas excluded, this picture must live uninterruptedly within the soul of the future Jesuit, the picture of the God-forsaken man, the man exposed to the most fearful punishments, together with the feeling: ‘That am I, since I have come into the world and have forsaken God, and have exposed myself to the possibility of the most fearful punishments.’ This must call forth the fear of being forsaken by God, and detestation of man as he is according to his own nature.

Then, in a further Imagination, over against the picture of the outcast, God-forsaken man, must be set the picture of the God full of pity who then became Christ, and through His acts on earth atones for what man has brought about by forsaking the divine path. In contrast to the Imagination of the God-forsaken man, there must arise that of the all-merciful, loving Being, Christ Jesus, to whom alone it is due that man is not exposed to all possible punishments working upon his soul. And, just as vividly as a feeling of contempt for the forsaking of the divine path had first to become fixed in the soul of the Jesuit pupil, so must a feeling of humility and contrition now take hold of him in the presence of Christ.

When these two feelings have been called forth in the pupil, then for several weeks he has to practise severe exercises, picturing to himself in Imagination all details of the life of Jesus from his birth to the Crucifixion and Resurrection. And all that can arise in the soul emerges when the pupil lives in rigorous seclusion and, except for necessary meals, lets nothing else work upon his soul than the pictures which the Gospels give of the compassionate life of Jesus. But these pictures do not merely appear before him in thoughts and ideas; they must work upon his soul in vivid, living Imaginations.

Only someone who really knows how the human soul is transformed through Imaginations which work with full living power — only he knows that under such conditions the soul is in fact completely changed. Such Imaginations, because they are concentrated in the most intense, one-sided way, first on sinful man, secondly on the compassionate God, and then only on the pictures from the New Testament, evoke precisely, through the law of polarity, a strengthened Will. These pictures produce their effect directly, at first hand, for any reflection upon them must be dutifully excluded. It is solely a matter of holding before one's mind these Imaginations, as they have just been described.

What then follows is this. In the further exercises Christ Jesus — and now we may no longer say Christ but exclusively Jesus — is represented as the universal King of the Worlds, and thereby the Jesus element is exaggerated. Because Christ had to be incarnated in a human body, the purely spiritual took part in the physical world; but over against this participation stand the monumental and most significant words: ‘My kingdom is not of this world.’ We can exaggerate the Jesus element by making Jesus into a king of this world, by making Him that which He would have become if He had not resisted the tempter who wished to give Him ‘all the kingdoms of the world and the glory thereof’. Then Jesus of Nazareth would have been a king who, unlike other kings who possess only a portion of the earth, would have had the whole earth under his sway. If we think of this king portrayed in this guise, his kingly power so increased that the whole earth is his domain, then we should have the very picture that followed the other exercises through which the personal will of each Jesuit pupil had been sufficiently strengthened.

To prepare for this picture of ‘King Jesus’, this Ruler over all the kingdoms of the earth, the pupil had to form an Imagination of Babylon and the plain around Babylon as a living picture, and, enthroned over Babylon, Lucifer with his banner. This picture had to be visualised with great exactitude, for it is a powerful Imagination: King Lucifer, with his banner and his hosts of Luciferic angels, seated amidst fire and dense smoke, as he sends out his angels to conquer the kingdoms of the earth. And the whole danger that issues from the ‘banner of Lucifer’ must first of all be imagined by itself, without casting a glance upon Christ Jesus. The soul must be entirely engrossed in the Imagination of the danger which issues from the banner of Lucifer. The soul must learn to feel that the greatest danger to the world's existence that could be conjured forth would be a victory for the banner of Lucifer. And when this picture has had its effect, the other Imagination, ‘The banner of Jesus’, must take its place. The pupil must now visualise Jerusalem and the plain around Jerusalem; King Jesus with His hosts, how He sends out His hosts, how He conquers and drives off the hosts of Lucifer and makes Himself King of the whole earth — the victory of the banner of Jesus over the banner of Lucifer.

These are the strength-giving Imaginations for the Will which are brought before the soul of the Jesuit pupil. This is what completely changes his Will; makes him such that in his Will, because it is trained occultly, he turns away from everything else and surrenders absolutely to the idea: ‘King Jesus must become the Ruler upon earth, and we who belong to His army have to employ every means to make Him Ruler of the earth. To this we pledge ourselves, we who belong to His host assembled on the plain of Jerusalem, against the host of Lucifer assembled on the plain of Babylon. And the greatest disgrace for a soldier of King Jesus is to forsake His banner.’

These ideas, gathered up into a single resolution of the Will, can certainly give the Will immense strength. But we must ask: what is it in the soul-life that has been directly attacked? The element that ought to be regarded as intrinsically holy, the element that ought not to be touched — the Will-element. In so far as this Jesuit training lays hold of the Will-element, while the Jesus-idea seizes the Will-element completely, in so far is the concept of the dominion of Jesus exaggerated in the most dangerous way — dangerous because through it the Will becomes so strong that it can work directly upon the Will of another. For where the Will becomes so strong through Imaginations, which means by occult methods, it acquires the capacity for working directly upon the Will of another, and hence also along all the other occult paths to which such a Will can have recourse.

Thus we see how in recent centuries we encounter these two movements, among many others: one has exaggerated the Jesus-element and sees in ‘King Jesus’ the sole ideal of Christianity, while the other looks solely at the Christ-element and carefully sets aside anything that could go beyond it. This second outlook has been much calumniated because it maintains that Christ has sent the Spirit, so that, indirectly through the Spirit, Christ can enter into the hearts and minds of men. In the development of civilisation during the last few centuries there is hardly a greater contrast than that between Jesuitism and Rosicrucianism, for Jesuitism contains nothing of what Rosicrucianism regards as the highest ideal concerning human worth and human dignity, while Rosicrucianism has always sought to guard itself from any influence which could in the remotest sense be called Jesuitical.

In this lecture I wished to show how even so lofty an element as the Jesus-principle can be exaggerated and then becomes dangerous, and how necessary it is to sink oneself into the depths of the Christ-Being if we wish to understand how the strength of Christianity must reside in esteeming, to the very highest degree, human dignity and human worth, and in strictly refraining from groping our clumsy way into man's inmost sanctuary. Rosicrucianism, even more than Christian mysticism, is attacked by the Jesuit element, because the Jesuits feel that true Christianity is being sought elsewhere than in the setting which offers merely ‘King Jesus’ in the leading role. But the Imaginations here indicated, together with the prescribed exercises, have made the Will so strong that even protests brought against it in the name of the Spirit can be defeated.

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Been offered a place at a STEINER NURSERY, any experience?(66 Posts)
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21:01:51
My nearly 3 year old son has been offered a place at a Steiner Nursery. Does anybody have any experience of this kind of nursery?

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northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 08:18:59
Hi Cote! Nice to have you back!

Quint, my youngest was in kindy for two years. She liked it at first, but by the end I had to literally drag her. She hated it. She changed from a lively funny confident child to a silent hiding scared one.The teacher said she was fine when i wasn't there. (I don't believe that now I know how dishonest the whole Steiner set up is )(Now she's back to her old self thank god)

There was a litle girl, who was so traumatised by kindy and first yr school at Steiner there, that she became a selective mute. At 8 she didn't make any sound EVER at school, not a word or whimper.
Often the kids are left totally unsupervised, which gives free rein for the natural bullies to vent the full force of their powers.
My daughter(obviously left handed) was "encouraged" to use her right hand,i.e. she felt she was "wrong" if she used her left( by seven yrs old she was made to knit right handed!) I was seething when I found out. Anthroiposophical belief sees being left handed as a karmic weakness.
The thing which is hardest, and why the anthroposophists like to r"ecruit" at kindergarten, is that transfering to mainstream is hard, when the children are discouraged from even seeing the written word or looking at books. Catch them and the parents young.

It's easy to be seduced by the beauty, the apparent gentle child centred haven of prolonged innocence.

The real motives, anthroposophical , go very deep, are a pseudo religion about reincarnation, spirit worlds, white aryan races being the race which is the pinnicle of superior spirituality.

[[www.chase.org.uk ]]

www.waldorfcritics.org

www.easeonline.org

[[www.waldorf-problems.com ]]

Add message | Report | Message poster northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 08:20:00
www.chase.org.uk

www.waldorf-problems.com

Quote

Message poster QuintessentialShadows Tue 22-Apr-08 10:19:08 Bloody hell.


No wonder they are not full when all other nurseries in the city is...

I have a meeting with the nursery at 2 pm today, to look around.

It is only till August, so will have to carefully consider the pros and cons.
It is seriously not working out with me looking after him 24/7 as I am here to help look after my elderly parents. And I have my own job (from home) that I am really behind with after just 3 weeks here.

What questions should I ask?

How do they structure the day?
How to they discipline the children?
What is considered naughtyness?
How do they deal with children hitting or kicking other children?

What else?

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CoteDAzur Tue 22-Apr-08 10:54:29
Questions for Steiner nursery:

What do you think about reincarnation?

What/who is 'Ahriman'?

Why are you convinced that it is wrong for children to learn to read before their adult teeth start coming in?

Are gnomes real?

What exactly is the 'morning verse' that is recited every morning in every class, even nursery? Why does it talk about "the soul who lives in me"?
Have fun

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QuintessentialShadows Tue 22-Apr-08 10:56:05


I cann see this meeting will be amusing on soooo many levels....

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CoteDAzur Tue 22-Apr-08 11:00:29
Yes. Ask the questions and watch them squirm.

For some reason, they don't ever tell prospective parents that their pedagogy is based on the belief that the goal of early education is to facilitate the reincarnation of the soul in that little body. They don't tell parents about the dance they teach little ones to help them 'communicate with the spirit world'.

When you ask direct questions, they get very evasive, and tell you a load of peripheral stuff in a singsong voice, with lots of smiles.

Basically, their goal is your child. Their involvement is with your child. Not with you. They don't feel they have to involve you in their plans for your child.

Very creepy.

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Janni Tue 22-Apr-08 11:12:46
Intrigued to hear about reaction. I guarantee you will think it all very beautiful. Do look beneath the surface though...

QuintessentialShadows Tue 22-Apr-08 14:35:41
I have just come back. I shall give you a full account. But first, I shall go and let my little son take part in the domestic sphere, we shall cut vegetables together, in preparation for our dinner.

northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 16:36:59
Me too, can't wait to hear their reaction!
Was going to come in with some other questions.
Are their guardian angels always watching them?
If you come from a race which is spiritually inferior to the white, blond aryan one, what are your child's serious chances of incarnating blond next time round?

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Greensleeves Tue 22-Apr-08 16:41:53
<<spray>> at "are gnomes real?"

northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 17:07:56
There's a mum from the Steiner ours went to,who is anthroposophical, ( they have no Gp and use anthrop plant stuff, don't go to the dentist, eat really strangely, or hardly eat some of the time I think, her kids look starved.
I once had a converstaion with her about a fairy/water sprite she'd seen. Seriously. They really believe it.

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ProfYaffle Tue 22-Apr-08 17:20:09
A friend of mine is currently trying to settle her 3yo into a Steiner Nursery. She's had major problems, teacher wouldn't allow her to stay with her dd to settle her, my friend was actually escorted from the building! (she only wanted to stay 10 mins or so and this was the 2nd session)

I think there's something in the Steiner philosophy about the teacher/pupil relationship being superior to the parent/child relationship? I could have got that wrong though. Friend is looking for a new nursery.

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northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 17:28:58
ProfYaffle, anthroposophic belief is that the relatioship between child and teacher is karmic, the choild karmically sort out that teacher.
The teacher is seen as having a "sacred task" in teaching the child.
Parents aren'tin the equasion atall I'm afreaid!
The child is an empty vessel to be helped through their incarnation, and prpared for their next one.
Too bad, the parent is just a transporting shell as far as their concerned.

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northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 17:30:22
Prof, I think your friend should star asking questions!
Much of the stuff that happened to my kids was really really cruel, and completely over ode any sort of common sense, all because of some warped spiritual belief.

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poster northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 17:30:44
Start asking I meant

poster ProfYaffle Tue 22-Apr-08 17:53:29
From what I can gather I don't think she's looked too closely into the philosophy. I'm quietly gathering links from the various Steiner threads to forward to her. She's pretty much decided to take her dd out already though, so may not be needed.

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poster northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 19:03:31
If she didn't look closely into the philosophy, it's not surprising.
The schools don't mention it in their promotional material or when asked.
We didn't hear or seee the word anthroposophy until we'd been at the school a while, and anthroposophic medicine was mentioned in conjunction with our kids check up with the school anthroposophic doctor. We assumed it was some sort of homeopathic thing, anthroposophy.Not a pseudo religion, whose main purpose was to see our kids into their next reincarnation, and prepare them for communicating clairvoyantly with the spirits who will manifest themselves int the future!

The school notice board/weekly magazine sometimes had things which mentioned anthropsophy, but as it was attatched to a camphill community, we just thought it was to do with homeopathic type stuff there.
#No one evr put us straight.
They went out of their way to not tell us what it was all about.

In our naivity. we trysted the teachers, administrators, the so caled experts selling us this education.
Liars.

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Message poster northernrefugee39 Tue 22-Apr-08 19:04:14
or even trusted them, but I suppose we also formed a tryst!

Message poster QuintessentialShadows Tue 22-Apr-08 19:23:09
Yup, I met a very nice and unassuming woman who showed me the nursery. She had timed the visit to coincide with story time that took place in a room in the basement, so I did not get to neither see nor hear any children. But, they must have been there, as I could see their clothing on the pegs, and I could hear a hushed voice telling a story.

It was very bare, hardly any toys, outside there were no swings, no slides just a large rambling garden (covered in snow of course) and a play house at the bottom.

In fact, 50% of the indoor space was a large kitchen. Wooden long table and chairs to sit at.

There were some roots from trees adorning the windows, and a few wooden animals.

This is what I learnt from my conversation with the woman:

There is morning assembly in the morning where they talk about the soul, and the seeds of life and nature. They believe in doing exactly the same thing each week, they keep to the same rhythm. On mondays they go to the forest, the go to the same place every time so they can see the seasons change and how everything is different in spring, winter, when it rains, snows, etc. On Tuesdays they paint, they paint themese relevant to the different festivities and seasons, and special events on the Steiner calendar. On wednesdays they cut vegetables, as this is the kitchen day where they do domestic things relevant to food preparation, including tidying and washing up.

They dont really have toys. There is nothing plastic, only natural materials such as wood, cotton, wool, etc. They mostly play role plays, where they pretend and re-enact animal life and nature, and festivities.
They prepare for spring by planting seeds, and tending to seedlings, which are planted out in summer.

The nursery staff dont really facilitate play, and dont really interact with the children, but they do domestic chores next to them so they know they are around if they are needed. Like in summer, they will weed the garden when the kids are out having free play, so they get used to being around house and garden work. Children always want to do as the adults do, and take part in housework and the domestic sphere, so this is what they get. They get to be in an environment very similar to home, with adults performing chores and inviting the children to join in.

All this takes part in strengthening their body and the soul, and it prepared the body for the soul? (At this point, I wondered, whose soul? Their own soul? Is there no soul in the body of a child? I did not ask, as I was a little too mystified about the thougth of my three year old coming to nursery to cut carrots and prepare his soul).

I think there was more, but I think I have covered most. Oh, yes, there was a picture of Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus on the wall (actually the only adornment in the room) and she said they did recognise Mary as one of the goddesses, and they were bound by law to follow Christian Ethic in their teaching, but it was not really important to them. Their curriculum is different from the national, and would not confuse the child with letters and numbers, other than when counting out vegetables or for other practical reasons.

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The schools do vary in rigidity, the extent to which they do "all Steiner" etc. - some have lightened up a bit.

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"I won't tell you why there are no sharp corners in a steiner schools as its too bonkers"

It's because there are no lines in the spirit world, and children are thought to be recently arrived from the spirit world. They are not yet fully "incarnated." All the soft colors and soft shapes are supposed to be more welcoming to the newly arriving soul; sharp lines, bright colors are "awakening," in other words, bring in the soul and intellect before the body is ready.

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Just a thought, Quintessential, from your description you have spared yourself and your child a place that sounds pretty fundamentalist anthroposophical. The schools do vary in rigidity, the extent to which they do "all Steiner" etc. - some have lightened up a bit.

From your description, these people are pretty serious, not likely to be the flexible types.

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Thanks DianaW, I was wondering why the tables were such an odd "wave" shape, as opposed to just rectangular, and why the staircase had been extended in width to reach the opposite wall, making it very wide and with rounded corners. I did not think they were trying to adhere to something "Steiner" in this strange carpentry, only that somebody quite loopy had refurbished the place. And yes, there were NO colours. Everything was white, oatmeal, wood, and wool and cotton.

I am very happy I posted this thread, it has given me a glimpse in to what Steiner is, and it sounds very strange. I cannot believe that these schools get state funding, and montessorris dont!

Without the feedback from you guys, I would have thought it nice and natural, but quite different. But not religious and not bonkers.

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Message poster easeonline Wed 23-Apr-08 13:10:56
"

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Oh, yes, there was a picture of Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus on the wall (actually the only adornment in the room) and she said they did recognise Mary as one of the goddesses, and they were bound by law to follow Christian Ethic in their teaching, but it was not really important to them

."

Oh dear. I'm afraid that this is a whopper, although the individual teacher might not have been aware of the significance.

'The Christ Event' as anthroposophy styles it, is perhaps the single, most crucial event in 'Anthro-(man) po sophy (wisdom) in our evolution: it maks the turning point from our decent from the state of pure spirit through solidifying processes to our more-or-less current state. 'The Christ Impulse' fecilitated the upturn back, leading eventually to pure spirit.

Ah gee- it's another aspect that needs to handled carefully; critics are so aware that in simply relating some of the more esoteric stuff of Steiner, it can be us who seem like the space cadets. Had it not been for this thread, how the hell could one introduce anyone to Steiner's revelations that we are on an aeons long evolutionary journey from what he called 'Old Saturn' embodiment, through a series of other events, to our ultimate destination, which he called 'Vulcan'

I'm very sure most of you are aleady at a ffs point, but if anyone is interested, I have tried to 'pot' it at easeonline.org/The_Ages.htm

Right I'm taking cover, but before you call the guys in the white coats, please remember not to shoot the messenger.
Ducking now.
Davy

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Message poster DianaW Wed 23-Apr-08 15:13:12
Every small detail that looks "strange" results from trying to follow Steiner. It influences even the smallest things. One of the reasons they fly under the radar is that parents are likely to think, as you did, of lots of small reasons that things that look strange probably don't mean anything - the teacher is a tad eccentric, "strange carpentry" LOL, some odd thing that is just some person's preference. Nope - usually, straight Steiner. Steiner determines everything down to what color to paint the classroom walls

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DianaW Tue 22-Apr-08 23:44:17
"I won't tell you why there are no sharp corners in a steiner schools as its too bonkers"

It's because there are no lines in the spirit world, and children are thought to be recently arrived from the spirit world. They are not yet fully "incarnated." All the soft colors and soft shapes are supposed to be more welcoming to the newly arriving soul; sharp lines, bright colors are "awakening," in other words, bring in the soul and intellect before the body is ready.