Seoul Central District Court

Basic Facts

Case Number: 2000 KoHam 129 Case Name: Violation of Law on Aggravated Specific
Economic Crime (Fraud)
Accused: Mo Haeng Ryong Prosecutor: Li Jin Woo
Department: 21st Criminal Court(b) (Tel: 02-5302132)
Date of Receipt: 14 February 2000 Result: Imprisonment (11 July 2000)
Number of Criminal Procedure: 2000-15019 Date of Carriage:
Date of Receipt of Verdict: Records Sent:
Records Returned: Records Receipt:
Date of Clarification: Copy sent to Prosecution:
Reason for Appeal: Prosecutor Appeal

Results of Appeal
Court Case Number Results
Seoul Provincial High Court 2000-노-1992 6 July 2000, overruled original sentence and reached new sentence – of the original decisions regarding the accused, 8 years imprisonment, 168 days detention.
Supreme Court 2001-도-4016 23 October 2000, Appeal rejected (no defence) – 95 days detention

Deadlines
Date Time Category Location Results
27 June 2000 14:00 Public Hearing 311
11 July 2000 10:00 Announcement of Sentence 417

Receipt of Documents
No document

Arrest (Custody) Details
Date Details
25 March 2000 Renewal of detention: Seoul Prison
25 May 2000 Renewal of detention: Seoul Prison

Crime Accused of
Number Details
1 Violation of Law on Aggravated Specific Economic Crime (Fraud)




List of the Accused
Name Date of Sentence Results
1. Mo Haeng Ryong 11 July 2000 Imprisonment
2. Park Gui Dal “ Imprisonment
3. Yi Nak Woo “ Imprisonment
4. Jin Dae Hyun “ Imprisonment
5. Kim Ki Hak “ Imprisonment
6. Choi Dong Lak “ Imprisonment
7. Kim Yong Bae 30 May 2000 On probation
8. Choi Hae Chang 11 July 2000 Imprisonment
9. Park Hee Young “ On probation
10. Kang Dae Bong “ On probation
11. Yi Jin Hyung “ Imprisonment
12. Jeong Sang Sik “ Imprisonment
13. Yi Sang Jin “ Imprisonment
14. Kim Chang Hee “ Imprisonment
15. Sim Sang Hoon 30 May 2000 On probation
16. Park Won Ki 11 July 2000 Imprisonment
17. Kim Yong Sup “ On probation
18. Park Yung Cheol “ On probation
19. Park Jae Yung “ On probation
20. Kim Hong Il 30 May 2000 On probation
21. Song Sun Man “ On probation
22. Yi Sang Tae 11 July 2000 On probation
23. Jang Sin Gu “ On probation
24. Kim Dal Sung 30 May 2000 On probation
25. Choi Kun Doh 11 July 2000 On probation
26. Kang Sang Ho 30 May 2000 On probation
27. Choi Eun Hee “ On probation
28. Kam Kyung Hwa 11 July 2000 On probation
29. Kang Jung Kon “ On probation
30. Jang Yung Sun “ On probation
31. Kang Tae Hee “ On probation
32. Lim Chang Yong “ On probation
33. Kang Tae Hee “ Imprisonment
34. Kim Jong Wan “ On probation
35. Jung Jung Chae “ On probation
36. Kim Chung Sik 04 July 2000 On probation
37. Yi Kyung Sik “ On probation
38. Oh Jung Kuk 11 July 2000 Imprisonment
39. Yi Byung Jin 04 July 2000 On probation
40. Kang Nam Sung 11 July 2000 On probation


Attorney Lawyers
Category Name Address Email
Accused no. 1 (Lawyer) Kang Dong Bum


Others involved in the trial
Category Name Address Email
Witness Seo Jung Kil
ditto Cha Chun Sun
ditto Park Byung Yul
ditto Yang Jong Tak
ditto Hong Yung Ki
ditto Kim Do Won
ditto Yi Hee Ja
ditto Sa Kong Sul
ditto Sin Kum Ak
ditto Jo Bum Sun
ditto Yun Suk Hun
ditto Yu Kun Do
ditto Yi Yung Ho
ditto Yi Ho Jae
ditto Ji Sang Cheol
ditto Son Sung Kyu
ditto Kim Kyung Hee
ditto Ahn Ho Woon
ditto Park Bok Ja
ditto Kim Yung Soo
ditto Ha Jeong Hee
ditto Ko Min Suk
ditto Park Yung Suk
ditto Yi Su Jong
ditto Yi Myung Soo
ditto Kim Myung Suk
ditto Stephany


The following is a edited free translation of several articles that appeared in a Korean Newspapers (Chosun Ilbo, Donga Ilbo, Hankyere Sinmun, Mail Sinmun) between 09 and 10 July 2000.

Religious Cult Fraud Reaching 15billion Won
09 July 2000 18:12

: 1,500 followers including public servants, teachers involved in Loan Frauds.

It has been revealed that a millenarian cult ‘Chun Jon Hoei’ tricked its 1,500 followers to borrow money by mutual-guaranteeing which left the followers with debts amounting to 15 billion won.

Deputy Chief Prosecutor Moon Hyo Nam of Seoul Provincial Prosecution investigated this case for the past 6 months and made his report on the 9th. In this report he announced the arrest of 42 core members including the heads of the cult Mo Haeng Ryong (66) and Park Gui Dal(52) couple, and the head of the religious affairs of the cult, Yi Nak Woo(47), legal adviser Kang Dong Bum (44, Lawyer), on the charge of violation of the Special Aggravated Law on Economic Activities. 113 other leaders of the cult are also ordered to be arrested.

According to the Prosecution, the total cases of frauds relating to ‘Chun Jon Hoei’ reaches 2,432 and of the estimated 15 billion won, 3.84 billion has so far been confirmed. In terms of the number of people involved, and in terms of the monetary damage, this is the biggest religious fraud case unearthed in Korea so far. The Prosecution is pushing for 15 years imprisonment for the heads of the cult Mo and his wife Park. This is the maximum penalty under the law. At the same time the prosecution also asked authorities to revoke license for Chun Jon Hoei as a legal religious body. The public hearing will be held in 11th.

The members involved came from wide range of social background including public servants, school teachers, members of police, accountants, lawyers, reporters, bankers, miners. Many of these lost their jobs, went through divorce, left home, arrested, or attempted suicides – the investigation found out.

One unnamed public servant in central administration Mr K. (48) borrowed 540,000,000 won through mutual guaranteeing and could not repay the debt which resulted in his losing the post and another public servant working as a health and safety officer for a city, Mrs L (46), divorced and stayed in the monastery of ‘Chun Jon Hoei’; Mr. Y(41), a high school teacher, put his house as security to borrow 25,000,000 won and donated it to ‘Chun Jon Hoei’ and retired from his job; An army Lt. Major C (46) also retired after his involvement in a fraud loans was found out.

According to the investigation all these and many other public servants, teachers, bankers and so on were regarded as ‘honorary disciples’ in return for the heavy loans they made and most of them lost their job after being harassed by the debtors for years. Some of them tried suicide and some resorted blindly to the ‘Ki treatment’ and lost their lives.

A rock singer M (46) from Australia had been suffering from ‘occiput cancer’ and came to Korea to receive ‘Ki treatment’ but the cancer spread to his spine and died two months after his return to Australia. A lady member (aged 39) committed suicide in Pu San after suffering from extreme poverty due to the excessive loans, and another fervent follower refused to receive medical treatment due to his commitment to the ‘Ki treatment’ but died in ‘Dae Ra Chun Gung’ In another case Mr. B (37) forced his wife to abort their baby ‘as the end of the world is at hand’ and devoted himself to ‘ki treatment’ and died.

Many professionals such as lawyers, medical doctors, reporters were also trapped into the fold. Kang Dong Bum (43, arrested) entered ‘Chun Jon Hoei’ before he qualified as a lawyer and he worked as the legal adviser. He was also involved in a fraud case of 2.1 billion won. During the trial he defended the leaders arguing that the prosecution is committing religious persecution and told that the leaders received a message from heaven while in prison that the end of the world was postponed by a year.

A director of a university hospital and five other doctors were deceived by Mr. Mo who told them that he would build a hospital for them and involved themselves in a fraud reaching 2 billion won. A report in Pu San Mr. S (49) made 900 million won debt believing the end of the world is coming.



About Chun Jon Hoei.

Chun Jon Hoei (or Chun Do Sun Bup ) started in 1985 as a Ki training organisation. There are over 300 training centres in Korea and 13 overseas centres in 6 other countries. The total number of the followers is estimated at 150 thousand.

In the early 1990s Chun Jon Hoei emerged as a religious cult when the leader Mo Haeng Ryong deified himself as ‘Ha Kye Hun Jon ’ with the expansion of the organisation. From this time, he disseminated that the end of the world will come in the year 2000.

At the same time Mo started his frolic frauds through 20 branches all over the country making excuses of donations and loans. Manipulating some of the extracted money (about 10 billion won) he established 10 companies (one of them being ‘Han Pu Ri Foods’) and appointed his son as the chairman of ‘FM Group’.

In 1991 he built ‘Dae Ra Chun Gung’ in Hong Cheon costing 1billion won and attempted to develop properties in Marshall islands deceiving the followers that he is building a place to save followers when the end of the world comes.

It's so good to see that people are coming together to, finally, do something about Ki Wealth / InnerShite.

Ex-victims have come to the conclusion that the 'masters' and the 'wanabe masters' are obnoxious, conceited, arrogant, power-hungry, egomaniacal, deluded . . and that's just where it starts.

The people under God's microscope in this whole sorry business surely are the 'masters'. Those people arrogant enough to entitle themselves as such really need extensive psychotherapy.

At the end of the day, is it truly the honour of 'doing good for humanity' that attracts 'trainees' to take the step to becoming 'masters'? Or is the real attraction the power that being a 'master' bestows upon them that is so seductive?

With variously pure / impure hearts, they will follow the yellow brick road, only to realise that at the end of it, the Wizard of Oh is a shyster in a beige dressing gown, who sucks in his cheeks and uses the phrase 'but now' a lot.

After a 'trainee' becomes a 'master', only the brave will turn back and return to Kansas. The rest will gradually / suddenly turn into zombiefied automatons.

Anyway, I digress.

Here, in it's unabridged form, is the argument one 'master' cobbled together to justify InnerShite's pursuit of power.

A heroic exhibition of a deluded mind in action. Written by a Brazilian 'master', conspicuous by her inability to smile.

Don't forget to retrieve your brain after reading.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________


I have known the Ki Health organization for many years and would like to tell you what I know about it. I do not intend to convince anyone of anything, because, as with most things in the world today, people have already formed their own opinions. But for what is worth, here is the story.

I lived in the East for many years, and it would be impossible to set out in a few words the tremendous challenges I underwent in trying to understand and adapt to a culture so different from mine. Not just the language barrier and all that was “lost in translation”, but they also seemed to live by a different set of logical, ethical and moral codes from mine.

One such example was what I perceived to be their lack of moral dilemma regarding “lies”. They seemed to lie with a moral abandon that bewildered me. Eventually, I came to realize that what I perceived as lying was for them “protection”, i.e., to protect others from the pain and discomfort of the “truth”. From an early age they learn to “protect” their parents from the truth and vice-versa. There is a saying in Korean that loosely translated states that "if you want to lose a friend tell him what you really think of him."

Space does not permit me to go through all the assaults my cultural identity suffered in the process of living with people so diagonally opposite to me, but one stands out more than any other, which is the question of individuality. In the East, conformity is a virtue to be cultivated, and individuality a character flaw to be overcome. To hold one’s personal, individual opinion in defiance of the group’s consensus is either a heroic or foolhardy act. They have a word, “chung”, which defines the ideal of “group harmony”, and religion is one of the glues that binds the group together. Hence, so many religious groups flourish in the East. The group conformity has taken its most extreme shape in North Korea. In China, Mao Tse Tung had to outlaw religion in order for communism to flourish – religion being the main threat to the authority of the state. Up until this day, religious persecution is alive and well in China.

To give money to a religious organization is seen as part of their “chung” philosophy and to be doing good for the whole. The commendable “doing good for the group” has an ugly side – when things go wrong, not only is the group to be blamed but also torn down to restore a sense of dignity to those who felt betrayed by it. This lack of individual accountability set the stage for much of what happened to Jungshim Association in Korea. Official corruption, bribes, manufactured evidence, were all thrown in the mix, but that is a long story.

In all truth, nobody makes us do anything. When a person chooses to depart with large amounts of money that person is solely responsible for the consequences, and no matter how much you want to construct a moral argument around it, it will never replace individual responsibility. One example comes to mind. I lost all of my life’s savings in the stock market crash of 1987. No doubt I blamed the stock broker who advised me to invest all my money in the stock market, but with the sobriety of time, I realized that I was solely responsible for the decision I made, driven by, I am not ashamed to say, the prospect of making more money. Whether one is driven by the prospect of greater profit or the desire for better health, does not eliminate the individual decision of who or what one chooses to trust.

When a doctor presents you with a diagnosis and a prognosis, he is only speaking about possibilities and probabilities. There is never any certainty that a person will be cured no matter what method that person employs. If I were diagnosed with cancer I would not subject myself to surgery or chemotherapy or radiation even though doctors would be telling me that was what I had to do. I also wouldn’t be able to afford it. A relative lost her life as well as her life’s savings in her cancer cure. For her, the world ended even though she put all her trust and money in her “cure”.

So, on the subject of the world ending, indeed, the world will end for all of us, it is called death. When we look at some of the statistics coming from scientific and environmental organizations, we could be forgiven for thinking of them as doomsayers. Almost fifty percent of all the world’s primates are facing extinction, and you don’t need to be a Darwinian to know that primates are our closest relatives; if they go…. About ninety percent of all the world’s species have already become extinct and we are now witnessing the greatest rate of extinction ever recorded in human history. World leaders cannot agree on ways to tackle global warming, energy crisis, overpopulation, deforestation, water shortage, shrinking arable lands, desertification, AIDS, etc, etc, etc.

The founders of the Jungshim Association were warning people of the dire situation of our planet. Indeed, they believe that life is at a peril, as do so many scientists, who are not however, called doomsayers. Of course, one could argue that scientists are not taking large amounts of money to “save” people; they are instead, taking large amounts of research grants to come up with solutions to “save” people. The Jungshim founders, however, introduced a little known fact as yet undetected by science, which is, the planet is running out of energy – the very energy that sustains and supports all of the planet’s life systems as well as our own lives. Thus, they gave people a system to recharge the body with energy and the potential to heal illnesses. They also introduced many spiritual concepts that although unfamiliar to the modern human mind, were prevalent in ancient times. They believe that many of today’s problems stem from a lack of a spiritual connection with the source of life (some call it God). The twist in this sorrowful tale is that their message was so misunderstood, misinterpreted and hijacked by other religious groups with a vested interest in neutralizing the competition.
There is little doubt that a new religion will always be labeled a cult. A bunch of renegades following a man called Jesus 2000 years ago was, by every definition of the term, a cult. Hard to believe that a few hundred years later, it had become the dominant religion of the very people who had nailed its leader to the cross. Jungshim is not, however, a “new” religion. It is deeply steeped in traditional eastern beliefs that go back many thousands of years, and because these beliefs have been supplanted by more recent ones, does not make them false. Ancestral worship was practiced in many civilizations of the ancient world, from Egypt to India, from North and South America to Oceania and parts of Europe. The Etruscan civilization, which was overpowered by the Romans, had a deep and reverential respect for ancestors, believing that much of what happens to a person’s life has its roots in the past, in the way ancestors lived and died. They performed elaborate ceremonies to honor their ancestors. The founders of Jungshim also believe that we carry much karma from our ancestors. We may choose to believe or not that this is the case. No one can force us to believe it.

It is, however, not just a question of belief but how much one pays for this belief. It has been claimed that people have paid large amounts of money to do ancestral healing. Personally I have great difficulty with judging costs, but I do know that I have never given the organization any more than I wanted to. The “they made me do it” argument is a very thin one. Individual responsibility may not be a prominent feature in eastern culture but it is at the core of western culture.

When we decide to do something, whether it is a new healing method or buy a car, we know the risks we are taking. Even if I pay a large amount of money for a car, it may still break down or I might smash it. What usually happens is that when people feel that it has failed them, they want some kind of recompense. There may be many reasons why something fails, but from my experience, it is usually to do with our own selves. For many people this is too hard to digest, and it is so much easier to believe that the method failed.

That is however, a difficult argument to prove because of the thousands of people who regained their health through this healing method, me included. And yes, there is no doubt in my mind that the ancestral healing had much to do with it. Long ago, I reached the conclusion that there are no incurable diseases, but there are incurable people.

To finalize, to claim that people who believe in the Jungshim principles are cultists is akin to claiming that all Muslims are terrorists and all Catholic priests are sexual predators. People tend to absorb ready-made information that is easy to digest. Not many people have the time or the energy to reflect deeply about issues that are not usually covered by the mass media. What is the purpose of human life? What is God? What is my relationship (if there is one) with God? Is God, the Earth and humanity, one and the same? Is nature spiritual as well as material? Is the separation of spirit and matter the cause of disease as well as environmental breakdown? What is the reason and purpose of suffering? It is up to each person to elucidate the mystery of life or forever blame others for not giving them the answers or healing them. What I discovered was that only I could heal myself and only after discovering who I am and why I became sick. The Ki healing method simply gave me the tools to heal myself. It is trying to reawaken our connection with nature and the fundamental principles that govern life.

It sounds good, but what about the money? It is an often repeated argument that spiritual matters have nothing to do with money. Unfortunately, the landlord is not very spiritual, and neither are the electricity and phone companies or the supermarket. Most of the Ki centers are located in the most expensive cities in the world, some in the most central locations to make it very accessible to people. The cost of running a centre which also has to support its practitioners is very high. And they set themselves up a very ambitious agenda – to make this healing method available to as many people in the world.

The founders of Jungshim had a very ambitious agenda and a misplaced trust in people. They believed that people were donating large sums of money to them because they believed in what they were doing, and once they gave it they wouldn’t ask for it back. They can be accused of spectacular naivety or misguided trust but not ill-intention. They firmly believe that Ki energy is the solution to many of our world’s problems and want to share this belief with all people in the world. The way they went about it may be questionable but I am not in a position (and neither is anyone else) to fully understand what they know and what they see. Throughout human history there have been people with the capacity to use more of their senses than the rest of us. They seem to have a window into the future that others have no access to. But only in hindsight can we know if they are true or not.

I cannot understand what this master from Brazil is saying. If someone could explain this in more simple English I would be thankful.

I have also seen many masters in the organisation tell lies. I think if a master lies to you and you give them money, or do Ancestor Training then this is the masters fault not your fault. Also I have heard many people in the organisation talk about this one "Official corruption, bribes, manufactured evidence" before, but I think this is also a lie- no one has shown me proof of this one. I have seen proof many masters lied to the banks to get loans.

I feel compelled to write something on this site which someone recently suggested I have a look at knowing that I have been involved with this group, but it really hasn’t made me doubt my own judgement or experiences.

I wasn’t surprised to read the swathe of critical postings as this kind of site attracts those with a gripe and I would guess is largely fuelled by a minority of voices. Hence, the larger majority of those who have had positive experiences, like myself, are not expressed as they may not wish to get caught up in this.

I am in my 50s, have lived all over the world and experienced many cultures and religions. I have also tried many therapies and been involved with different spiritual practices including Innersound.

I wanted to respond to some of what is being called brainwashing/mind control techniques in Janet’s posting as I believe it could easily be looked at quite differently. Uniforms for example are worn throughout martial arts practices, Buddhist monasteries, as well as by airline crew, restaurant staff etc to name just a few. Dormitory sleeping exists in student life worldwide, and in many parts of the world to have your own room is unheard of and many communities and families share rooms, houses etc. From my knowledge of this organisation, there is no sleep deprivation. The masters always look remarkably healthy and awake. If they were only sleeping 3 hrs a night it would be very obvious. Unfortunately, there are many people across the world who sleep less than five hours a night just to keep their jobs. As an aside I have met at least 3 people at the centre who have suffered from insomnia and have better sleep thanks to the technique. Diet control – the masters from my eyes seem to eat quite a varied diet and are not even vegetarian. I have been involved with much stricter practices than this. A rigid and packed routine! The Qi centre appears a very relaxed and friendly, working environment compared with the high-pressured environments I have worked in. Unfortunately in the corporate world, I have seen too many people working under extreme pressure and stress, who feel bullied and afraid to speak up because they are afraid of losing their job. The masters’ lifestyle and beliefs may not be what most people are used to but I can see they are happy and I have seen how much they lift other people who are struggling with their lives.

I cannot comment on the situation in Korea, but regretfully there are many people around the world who are imprisoned or persecuted for their beliefs, not to mention wrongfully imprisoned. I am old enough and wise enough to know there are many sides and many slants to a story. It has also been mentioned throughout this site about the many names of Innersound in the UK, but if this kind of negative publicity follows you it may seem like a sensible choice if you have little knowledge of how to manage a reputation and develop a brand. I don’t see this as criminal, more as naive.

I have done and paid for ancestor ceremonies. I have also used the money I earn for my children’s education, my mortgage, holidays, courses, investments. I value the importance of spiritual healing for ancestors and believe in it. I also accept what I paid to be in line with the other things I value in my life. I also am very happy with the changes I have felt within myself and do feel healthier and calmer than I have in a long time. The changes in my family have been impressive as well, especially a very close relative whose chronic depression has lifted and is clearly a happier person since I completed the programme.

I haven’t seen members being pressured to do ancestor ceremonies, I just see the masters passion and belief in what they are doing and their wish to help others. There will always be those that are dissatisfied or who do things for the wrong reasons. There is no company that doesn’t have some dissatisfied customers. How much harder must it be dealing with something that we cannot see? We are responsible for our own choices and spiritual practices are something that we should do with faith.

I think much of what is written about the ancestor programme shows a lack of understanding of the concept and the cost. I was already aware of ancestor worship in Asian countries. I also believe the comments are not a true reflection of the experiences of most people who have followed the programme and considered it a sacred and highly spiritual undertaking. The effort the masters put into the ceremonies many days a week should assure anyone of how genuine they are. Again spiritual practice is not about results and I have heard the masters emphasise this. Despite that, I have seen deep changes in many people and I believe in the sincerity and integrity of the work.

I hope the masters and the centre will continue to help many people. They have my full support.

The article I posted is from very big Korean newspapers (Chosun Ilbo, Donga Ilbo, Hankyere Sinmun, Mail Sinmun), I don't know how many of you know Korean newspapers- but these are very important ones- with good journalists. They often write stories about government corruption but I have not seen one newspaper talk about this one "Official corruption, bribes, manufactured evidence" for Chunjonhoe. I have only heard from people inside Chonjonhoe say this one. It is easy to make up a story like this to defend the reputation of the grandmasters. Someone needs to show evidence.

Now even the grandmasters call each other liars. The Father grandmaster says heaven is with him and his son and they are running a new organisation, and the Mother grandmaster says heaven is with her and she runs Chunjonhoe with new name Jungshim with her son. They both have sons from other marriages before.

Even though they have changed the name in Korea people do not like this organisation. The masters walk up to people on the street and say to people, you have spirit on you, you need ceremony. In Korea the centres are very small but they need to make people do ceremony to pay the rent. Innersound in London has a very big centre. I think they have to do a lot of ceremony to pay that rent. Many organisation in Korea do ceremony for Ancestor. This organisation asks people to give much more money for ceremony than the the other organisations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2012 07:11AM by PastMaster.

Someone just told me about this blog [scepticalletterwriter.blogspot.com.au]

There is a post in the comments section that reads like this:
>
>Anonymous31 December 2010 01:30
>
>REcently diagnosed with cancer. I'm considering not having chemotherapy in order to regain my health through innersound. Is there anyone out there who has been healed of thir cancer through this alternative treatment?

This is what PastMaster is talking about. They are probably responsible for people not getting appropriate medical care and getting sick or dying. In the blog it talks about how Innersound makes health claims in their marketing documents, which is not allowed. It says that Innersound agreed to stop doing this marketing after receiving a complaint but continued to do it anyway.

They call themself a health organisation when they are actually a religion. And they make medical claims even when they know they shouldn't and have been told not to. They think they are human gods so the rules don't apply to them. Even if people like BalancedView have a good experience with them and want to defend them, it is clear that it is worse than them just being naive. PastMaster has said he has seen them lie many times. I think it is clear they know they are doing wrong. People should do something about this. People should email Janet123482 on the email address she gave.

In response to BalancedView . .

(whom I suspect is a 'master') . .

(quote) 'I have seen how much they lift other people who are struggling with their lives'.

How do they lift people who are struggling with their lives, when they break so many people by helping themselves to the contents of their bank accounts?

It seems to me that, despite the fact you've been around the block a bit, you've only seen the very tip of their particular iceberg.

I suspect they learnt from the mistake they made with the gentleman who gave them £300,000.00 in 2007 that they can't always get away with sucking someone dry, then throwing them away like yesterdays trash so indiscreetly. So it seems they've 'cultivated' (oooh, one of Oh's favourite words!) a more sophisticated approach to their highway robbery.

Something like 'slowly slowly catchee monkey' springs to mind.

Re re-branding - it's not naivity, or anything like it. It's the absolute opposite.

It was in full knowledge that the truth about them can be reached via searches on the 'net that moved them to change their name so many times. Nothing naive about it.

Hey what's going on? Why are the guys at Ki Health googling me??

Argh some recent posts on this old thread must be freaking them out.
Hey guys, I'm innocent this time I swear!










No offence Ki Health people, but I do not want to be your friends on Facebook.

Hello BalancedView.

First of all, thank you for posting. I hope the compulsion that led you to write that will not desert you and will to continue to share your experiences here and perhaps answer a few of my questions and any others that may be put to you. I know it’s not always easy to come onto a site like this and defend a group that has been criticized, but I hope you’ll continue and that others may perhaps join you.

I’ve been pretty critical of your group in the past and actually received legal threats regarding those. The letter I received from your group’s lawyers asked me to desist from publishing false or defamatory comments, so I’ll do my best to make comments that could not be in any way construed as such. If I post anything that you do consider false or defamatory, I would appreciate it if you could let me know as in the past I haven’t been a very good judge of that.

And hopefully by being nicer - if that’s the right word - than I was a few years ago, I can encourage some meaningful discussion about this group between its members, its critics, and any other interested parties/people and perhaps we can all come to a better understanding of this organization. And I would certainly appreciate the opportunity to learn more about this group from a less negative perspective.

Quote
BalancedView
I think much of what is written about the ancestor programme shows a lack of understanding of the concept and the cost. I was already aware of ancestor worship in Asian countries. I value the importance of spiritual healing for ancestors and believe in it.

Perhaps you’re right; perhaps my own initial admittedly very skeptical attitude was formed due to a misunderstanding. Would you mind sharing offering a clear explanation of what exactly ancestral training is? I live in Korea so I’m certainly aware of the importance respect for ancestors is, but not specifically the concept of “ancestral training” or “ancestral healing” itself.

You said there’s a lack of understanding about the cost. What then is the cost? Is there a clear fee structure available online you could share? Or if you know yourself would you mind sharing it? Would you mind sharing how much you paid for your ancestral training/healing? Perhaps by stating the price you paid and the benefits received you can help clear the lack of understanding you mentioned.

Quote
BalancedView
I cannot comment on the situation in Korea, but regretfully there are many people around the world who are imprisoned or persecuted for their beliefs, not to mention wrongfully imprisoned.

Are you suggesting there is a link between the group you are involved with in London and a group in Korea that has had ... how shall I put this … problems with the law in the past? And if so would you mind clarifying the connection I believe your comment implies? If I’ve misinterpreted your comments, please correct me if I’m wrong.

Quote
BalancedView
but if this kind of negative publicity follows you it may seem like a sensible choice if you have little knowledge of how to manage a reputation and develop a brand. I don’t see this as criminal, more as naive.

Well I hope you can educate them in developing a brand and perhaps try persuade those in charge them to not make any more name changes. I’d be curious to hear how that conversation goes if you have it and then want to share it here. Please do not consider that is something you need to reply to, I'm just thinking out loud if that's OK.

I believe both Father grandmaster and Mother grandmaster is the the wrong way that is why I leave and I am not master anymore. Masters in Mother Grandmasters organisation do not know true story why most masters choose Father Grandmasters organisation. While Father grandmaster was in prison Mother grandmaster had another boyfriend. She loved this boyfriend very much and gave him a lot of money from the organisation as gift. Mother Grandmasters bodyguards saw how she was with the new boyfriend and thought this was the wrong way so they told other masters about the boyfriend. Most masters could see this was the wrong way to have another boyfriend while Father Grandmaster was in Prison, that is why they go to Father Grandmasters organisation.