Hi Letif,

Verena Koenigs work is very helpful.

When I was on O.N. Courses or in his centers I often felt like being surrounded by a sort of „zombies“ not normal empathic people. I felt unsafe there and my nervous system was always on high alert.

Thanks for your lines. Very interesting that you call them "zombies", I also call them "spiritual zombies" in my diary.

Also interesting that you noticed how your nervous system was on alert... it took me years to notice that.

In this group hynosis full of hypocrisy, lies, manipulations and simple fakes, it is difficult to keep in touch with oneself... it is better to distance oneself and orientate oneself to the venerable mature teachers in France, India and Nepal.

It's probably good if more people share their experiences here. To encourage others not to doubt themselves but to listen to themselves, their bodies.
And to find out what Buddhism really is... the Kagyu years have been a total confusing waste of time and it's a difficult challenge to get the junk out of my head.


By the way: in the forum there is an interesting post about the denial of suffering...
[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2023 05:38PM by letif.

I think the term „ spiritual bypassing“ might be what we are talking about here.

I also find it difficult to draw a line between a healthy distance to problems and avoiding to deal with them completely on basis of spiritual ideas.

It does not make sense to me to apply the nondualistic level to problems in the dualistic world, in which we are living most of the time.

And it took me years to understand what I experienced in the DW . It caused deep confusion and I am often angry of myself, that I let myself fall in it.

The courses felt like a drug experience, I felt high. When this feeling left me, I tried to get it back. My time in DW felt like an addiction. An addiction to the good feelings. I guess my system developed an addiction to the chemicals I experienced in this environment.( the chemicals my body produced.)

I never had that experience with one of the other well known teachers ( buddhist and others)I visited. Almost with everyone of them I experienced stillness and/or peace.

Is there anybody here, maybe somebody with an authentic buddhist training, who can give advice about the typical DW Meditations ( the „simplyfied“ pujas)? I am wondering if it make sense to use them. No other teacher of this Lineage refers or
recommends them. ( As far as I know) Please let me know if there are any information about it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2023 02:25AM by 7 of 108.

What you write makes a lot of sense: this addiction to hormones of connection and joy. That's why this joy is always emphasized convulsively. And if O.N. is there, everyone is transformed and in a trance.
The contrast with the peace/stillness of the great masters is truly remarkable...
I will think about your lines for a long time, they are really clarifying.

Your question about the meditations is interesting, I'm curious if there are any answers from anyone competent.

Sometimes I have the impression that they make sense.

But when I see what results I have and others who have been practicing this for 10-20 years: no convincing results, because so much is suppressed, so much is looked at superficially. I haven't been able to find out yet whether it's because of the meditations or whether it's the teaching garbage they're packed in...

How I found myself constantly in a trance - constantly in the illusion that there would be a maturation...yes, I'm also doubting myself how I got into this swamp...

Because of your question about the meditations, I would like to add:
It is good if someone in Dagpo or Karmapa revise the meditation booklets.

What I think about the peace of the great teachers:
they have a different body awareness from childhood, they are rooted in their bodies in a very different way. And they take the instructions for proper speech seriously.

What strikes me in the booklets are the distortions and inaccuracies.
Example: it says "few hear the teachings and even fewer practice them"
The correct teaching in the book "Secret Dakini Teachings" is:
"Few hear the teachings and fewer practice them. And very few people practice them properly."

This is how you could take apart each sentence of the introduction and the conclusion. That's why I called it instructional garbage.

Another example that goes in the direction of what we are just discussing here:
In the end it says "...we are not the body, but we have a body..."
What is striking about the Kagyu: they are so disembodied (that's why I call them spiritual zombies, i was one too), and that's how I experienced myself: completely head-heavy "fast life" blah blah and you don't even feel your body.
The body is totally despised.
Incidentally, this separation from the body is a sign of trauma, a splitting off of all the feelings, experiences, memories, etc. that are stored in the body.

Many years ago I saw a live streaming of Karmapa Thaye Dorje leading a Chenresig meditation. It was much easier than in the booklet.

What struck me at first was how he emphasized the breath.

He said, "Don't just breathe with your lungs, breathe with your whole body."
This body breathing and body scan is often encountered in spiritual contexts and over the years I have made it my central practice - with Tonglen (books by Pema Chödrön and Scharmapa helped me) and some Mantras / visualizations.

I've noticed that reading/murmuring the Mahakala song every day makes sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2023 06:58AM by letif.

Hello guys,

I just read under one of the latest Karmapa's post on FB, that Ole Nydahl wasn't present again. I have a feeling that the whole DW is rolling down to hell.
The question is what's going to happen with bunch of "idealistic,young people".
Anyway this expression reminds me of some group in Germany during II WW.

He appeared on some photos of Karmapa‘s instagram posts. Looked very weak and confused.
I do not think that the Nydahlists have to go to hell- for me they are already in it.His organisation is a nightmare. Being secretly very doubtful about the holy Ole while I was in DW, I felt like being secretly jewish during upcoming National Socialism. So, I definetly share the image you are using here.
Luckily his followers are not charismatic, so they will not attract many new people anymore. I do not think that the Nydahlists will be able to mix again with normal people- they spent their life in the DW BS bubble and need it. I guess that is why they cling together as much as possible anyway- to keep up their parallel universe. Probably they will kind of close their centres and cling to their ON fairytales.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2023 10:34PM by 7 of 108.

Somebody here asked about Freya, Ole's daughter. She appeared on several photos, but apart from a group photo from Karmapa's course in European center, these had to be deleted. It is an official policy within DW not to take or post photos of Freya, which is understandable. She is a child and she has a right to the privacy.

As for Ole, according to my information, there is still a great measure of denial about his state within the group. For example in one center a couple of new people came to the lecture open to public and they were invited to go to EC and meet Ole in order to receive his "blessing". Some members present even insisted that Ole is perfectly fine, he is just so "enlightened" that he is beyond words and so he does not speak, he merely enjoys everything as a buddha-field.
This is nothing unusual, people in cults do all sorts of mental gymnastics and logical acrobatics just to avoid admitting being wrong.

Hi All,

we went so see Karmapa on the day of his lecture. Ole wasn't there at all but we suspected that and went specifically for the day of the lecture. A friend of mine saw a video of Karmapa and Ole's wife no.3, Anne, helping Ole on both sides, so he could be walking to the Stupa on the day of the inaguration.

We went up after the lecture with yet another friend, to see the new Stupa, as it wasn't inagurated yet on the day of the lecture. we decided to eat at the ec as they cooked dinner for outsiders as well, not just for the people helping to tidy up the 'rubbles' after the summer course. At some point Ole was wheeled out by a body guardish looking guy who then stood on the balcony behind Ole. Ole was in a wheelchair, shaking and looking terribly confused. A handful of his flock were sitting under the balcony on the grass, looking up, worshiping the guru. It was just a terrible sight. Very sad. My friend couldn't even look up.He was in tears. We used to be together as a couple and we just felt how everything has changed for the worse. I was very sad, too. For those of you who speak German, 'der Untergang' was pulpable.

An era has found its inevitable end.

Kawa L., thanks for posting. I just hope that little girl will have a good life, even though she will have to put up with a lot of b.s later on. Like the children of L.Ron Hubbard. What a karma...Terrible.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2023 10:00PM by freedomofspeechmetoo#.

On the Karmapa page in FB there are many photos of the Karmapa in the EC. There are some with full Gompa when Karmapa answered questions. Also some conversations with smaller groups. Does anyone have a transcript of these questions and answers?
What will change in the future? I suspect that there will be many big conflicts because people haven't learned to speak openly and suppressed anger is seething everywhere.


I saw the video before it was deleted. A sad video.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2023 12:41AM by letif.