very nice - celebrating Buddhism with a meat laden full English breakfast washed down with strong alcohol, dressed as England's best known womanising assassin. Keep those good impressions coming.

I find it irritating that valid criticism of Nydahl's organisation and its sectarian structures is mixed with complaints such as these. They derive their beliefs from Tibetan Buddhism, which, IIRC, allows both meat and alcohol. (Wikipedia on Vajrayana Vegetarianism: In Tibetan Buddhism, a strong emphasis was placed on number of esoteric tantras which were transmitted from Northern India. In these tantras, it is clearly stated that the practice of Vajrayana would make vegetarianism unnecessary.[citation needed] Some Vajrayan practitioners both drink alcohol [20][21] and eat meat.[22][23] Many traditions of the Ganachakra which is a type of Panchamakara puja prescribe the offering and ingestion of meat and alcohol.)

That leaves the Bond thing. That might be considered a bad role model for buddhists, I agree. However, as an ex-Buddhist, I have to say that I find it a funny idea. They're fundraising for an english center, so doing it this way, with a well-known british fictional figure, is actually quite clever.

The point that could, and should be criticized is that they are fundraising in that way at all. I'm not very well versed on the Buddhist stance on this kind of thing, but I somehow doubt that it was intended for people who have plenty of money themselves (as they are all lay-practicioners) to go around and basically beg for a project.

That leaves the Bond thing. That might be considered a bad role model for buddhists, I agree. However, as an ex-Buddhist, I have to say that I find it a funny idea. They're fundraising for an english center, so doing it this way, with a well-known british fictional figure, is actually quite clever.

Buddhadharma is not supposed to pander to the ambient culture or its addiction to entertainment and fads.

DW looks like a mere outlet for greed and piggish partying, with a few images of Buddha and bits of fashionable Tibetan art thrown in.

Better to just stick with football and the pub and not drag Buddhadharma into it.

And this James Bond deal was an expensive party in the Swiss alps, not something meant to appeal to the average lad or lassie.

hi Sceptic Watcher, that's a valid point. Tbh my comment was meant as a light hearted poke at DWB pomposity...

There is a world of difference between the tsog puja you mention (which I have done and which is not practiced by DWB) and the excessive partying behaviour I have witnessed first hand.

The Bond theme is also kind of ironic given that Ole Nydahl is himself a self-fictionalised womanising daredevil.

My issue is more with their belief that they are spreading "good impressions" by simply acting like typical English partygoing fundraisers.

- I see this as a direct consequence of their sectarianism, somehow believing that they are better that other Tibetan groups who take Buddhism far more seriously. This is reflected in a an earlier post about Nydahl's most obvious skill being that of aggressive marketing and promotion - equally here, a Public Relations campaign seems to have taken centre stage, aimed at accumulating wealth, property, and the expansion of the Nydahl empire.

If any real Buddhism got done, that might be fine, but I suspect that if any real Buddhism did get done, then the question would be asked - why the need for such arch-capitalism?

...as a background to this, perhaps I should explain...

the term "good impressions" comes at the end of the DWB meditation where one dedicates the practice to ALL sentient beings.

Every other Lama I have heard emphasises this point, talking about how terrorists may well be even more in need of such good wishes than their victims.

They talk about the idea that to judge others as deserving and undeserving is a self-centred viewpoint not compatable with achieving Buddhist aims.

Every other Lama except Ole Nydahl...

For me, this is the single most important indicator of a true Lama, and it shows in the treatment received by some of the contributors to this thread in the way DWB members have acted towards them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2011 02:47AM by suenam.

@Corboy and Suenam
Hi again!
Thanks to both of you for elaborating your points, it makes them clearer.

News:
Sharmapa really seems to try to oppose Nydahl on every front. The last argument was about Nydahl's sexual conduct, now he is criticizing his organisation for translating Kangyur and Tenjur:

=51&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1&cHash=184f728f5e]Here, Sharmapa seems to criticize one of the
goals of ITAS, the branch of Diamondway Buddhism that is oriented towards an academic approach.

Hi Sceptic Watcher,

This point is wider than the concept of ITAS. There are significant works missing from the Buddhist scriptures and some translations from Pali and Sandscrit have deviated from the original works. The most meaningful solution is to fully reconstruct the Kangyur and Tenjur in Pali and Sanscrit to the highest possible level then embark on a translation project with a group of translators who hold the appropriate lingusitic and spirtual training. There seems to be accord that to have small teams of enthusiastic friends translating complex works which they may not even understand could lead to many long term problems.

Sharmapa is unlikely to be opposing Lama Ole. This is against the way Sharmapa has conducted himself. He is well known to not take things personally and to put Dharma before his own ego and personal desires.

As Diamond Way Buddhists migrate to other traditions they may see differences in the approach of their new tradition. These differences can manifest as questions to their Lama, this is the cause for some of the statements made by Sharmapa and other teachers over the last two or three years, there will inevitable be more of these statements.

@budhistcke
Well, I only posted the link. Shamarpa thinks translating Kangyur and Tenjur is a bad idea, for the reasons he posts. Embedding the link didn't work because of the [ sign, but if you copy the adress to your
browser, you can read for yourself.

Plus, you can oppose someone for reasons other than spite - just having a different opinion, for example, which seems to be the case here. The explicit goal of ITAS is translating these works, Shamarpa doesn't think translating them is the right path, hence he opposes the project, because he doesn't think it serves Dharma well.

I don't get what you mean with your last sentence, could you perhaps elaborate?

Hello all,
I received confirmation that main people of DWBUK do read this forum and I am very happy about that, I hope, one day, they will be brave enough to come out to the open and answer the questions I asked in my previous posts.
And by the way I do not have any hidden agenda to destroy DW organisation, I just want to understand few thinks, that s all.
Was I involved in the cult?
If yes how the hell I did not see it my self straight away.
I did get some answers to this question on this forum thanks to people who participate here.
If DW is a cult, I think more people should know about it and they should stay clear from it.
And if DW is not a cult than someone from there should come out and say that because there is more and more talk about Lama Ole Organisation.
But I understand now that it is not 100% clear organisation , otherwise why they would advise each over not to write here in this forum (it just give him fuel? ).
Fuel me for what exactly?
As I said I do not have any agenda to destroy or damage DW.
P.S
It is not BS as someone express him self it is very serious issue for people who interested in Buddha’s teachings and who may be misled getting involved in something which may be not correct or misleading.

Darius

I find it quite interesting that the head of the London sangha would refer to others' experiences written about on this thread as "BS", that certainly would explain the cult-like aspect of DWB, the "for us or against us" sort of absolutist thinking... and if you aren't with them it would seem they have to find some way to dismiss you without really considering that there could possibly be a problem.

It's sort of like someone sticking their fingers in their ears when they dislike what they are hearing. Pretty immature.

At least the comment to not respond because it would "give them fuel" shows a degree of insight, even if that insight is of the high level of their emotional involvement and the realisation that not a single one of them is spiritually mature enough to engage on a rational and impartial level. I guess that just goes to show the type of "buddhism" that they are developing, lacking any perpective and emotionally attached.