mark jon,

thank you for your words, some I would like to comment.


"That and your comments have cleared up a lot of confusion in my mind about Ole's sexual obsession."

Here are two different facts to be considered:

At first Nydahl seemed to be a man with a great sexual desire in the past, before he had become a follower of tantric-tibetan Lamaism. Hopefully that made him , his wife Hannah and his girlfriends happy. Nothing is to say against it, if no one was hurted.

Then he turned to be a devotee and brought in his alternative lifestyle - he and Hannah were just Hippies on their way to the next flash - into his new believing system. And as I wrote in my Open Letter, "he was itching for the sexual promises of the secret Tantras." Shamar explained it in his text quite well.
Nydahl seemed to be so eager for tantric teachings, that he got them from different teachers, 16. Karmapa, Tenga and Kalu and the very controversery Lama Chen.

And here I disagree with Shamar: Karmapa did not give him the teachings by courtesy, but by deeply looking in Nydahl´s charakter. Nothing but sex could have made him such a fundamentalistic follower.
Then he got specific enaugurations, a process of the opening of his Kundalini began and the result was, what the Tibetan call liberation or enlightment. Without going here to far he learnt to control his erotic power -I saw him once sitting on the platform while my frst Phowa course and while looking at his womb I saw, he had an erection - and is now able to act as a Tantric master. The erection is one of the holy sign of those masters and the energy of it is spreading into the room, the tantric form of blessing. It is nothing but a sign of power and of surrender.

On this left-handed path you have to make specific vows. One of the most important vow is to keep all the practises secretely, otherwise you will go to Vajra hell. Holpfully Nydahl does not beliefe in that concept.

Annother vow means that you are obligated to have sex every day. Ole Nydahl seriously keeps the vow by never sleeping alone and veil the the vow´s charakter by faking a promiscouous lifestyle. For the most of us that seems to be incredible because we normally link vows in a religious context with celibacy. Of course all the so called high Incarnations know the secrete vows very well, the most of them took them as well as Nydahl. Only Shamar seems to stand allof from that practises.

And here Kalu comes in. Altough he was a monk at the same time he acted as Tantra master and was allowed, no, even obligated to have consorts. The only trick was to keep that for secret. June Campell as a really hero tore the curtain of this patriarchal bigotry.

And I am going to tore the curtain from the secret transferences I was involved in.


@rrrmoderator: You are doing a phantastic job and you earn to be supported in legal things as you wrote here!

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mark jon
When it was publicly revealed what Kalu Rinpoche had been up to with sexual tantra the women who spoke out publicly made it sound very much like she was being used by him in order to achieve some kind of 'spiritual' advantage. The question I have, and perhaps you or others can answer, is concerning how this is sold to the woman. In other words, is she generally told that she will be participating in a tantric experience of some kind that will benifit her, as well as him? Or is it simply portrayed as being 'good karma' or whatever to serve the teacher that way. When studying what happened with Kalu Rinpoche, who Ole learned from, it sounded to me like the sexual activity between the lama and his 'consort' amounted to little more than theft of the female 'essence' in service of what he believed was impossible to obtain any other way. If that is true, not only should taking advantage of students be wholeheartedly condemned but the whole idea of Buddhist sexual tantra should be also. Other forms of tanra with which I am familiar don't appear to be anywhere near as predatory. I guess the question comes down to, is the teaching itself that utterly exploitative of women, or only in the hands of these kind of men?

Here's my take, to answer your question re: what arguments are used to convince women to have sex with the lama. After studying June Campbell's case, and after speaking with women who have run into similar situations in the US and India, the common pattern is that women are told tantric sex with the lama will advance their practice, or bring them closer to enlightenment. However, the nature of the sexual activity involved--and June Campbell is quite clear on this--is always of a very ordinary nature, not ritualistic, or involving any special techniques, at all. So it's just an excuse to get women into bed, nothing more.

As to the nature of the teachings themselves, they're very exploitive of women. Women are only needed in order to provide the crucial organ the monks and initiates need in order to achieve their state of "bliss". That, and the female energy (via the consort's sexual fluid), or "gynergy", as described in the book, "Shadow of the Dalai Lama". So it's extremely predatory. Vampiristic, really.

Traditionally, in Tibet and other Himalayan countries, women who were taken from their families at a very young age (13 or 14, sometimes younger) were told they were "goddesses" and "wisdom consorts" or "Buddha mothers". And Tibetan tantric tradition does have goddesses, or female Buddhas, such as Vajrayogini, who the Dalai Lama prays to daily, who are key figures in the tantric tradition. But the women were treated like nothing more than ritual sex workers, required to present their sex organ on demand, not only for individual use, but for group initiations. Even more alarming is the fact that some of the tantric literature specifies use of pre-pubescent girls as consorts. Such girls were told they would be given a "blessing" by the lama, only to end up raped repeatedly in a group ritual. Some of the tantric texts (see: Commentary on the Kalachakra, by Geshe Dhargyey, for an example) say that if the consort is not compliant, to administer alcohol, and if that doesn't work, to simply take her by force. You can't get more predatory than that!

Some important testimony has come out of Bhutan, by a woman who was forced to live in a monastery as a "wisdom goddess". (The public was brainwashed to believe that it was a great honor to be so chosen.) She describes these rituals that follow the ancient Tibetan texts exactly; the lama would ejaculate into her, then dig out a mixture of his and her sexual fluids, and give that to the initiates to consume. This is viewed as extremely sacred and powerful material. (See "Shadow of the Dalai Lama", online, for description and analysis.) After she aged out of the system, she was able to get to India and receive an education. At that point, she understood that her way of life constituted a grave abuse of women, so she returned to Bhutan and petitioned the king to ban the practices with live consorts, which he did. So hopefully, the rituals are now only performed via visualization, though I don't know how such a law would be enforced. And we don't know if the use of consorts continues in Tibetan monasteries in India and Nepal.

[www.trimondi.de]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2013 02:06AM by Misstyk.

Well said, Misstyk!

Due to my personal experiences I argue in a more personal manner, but you brought it to the point.

Wow, that makes for some extraordinary reading. It gives a whole mythic structure to the subjugation of women and of nature, to runamuck masculinity both in society and in our spiritual systems, and the fear of the 'shadow' that underscores so much of it. I can certainly see why my brief involvement with Ole and DWB set off alarm bells inside of me.

I would also add that this information, both in respect to the personal and the more religious/mythic/esoteric/theological forms it has taken, needs to be taken out of the vault of secrecy and critically examined for what it is. So I commend you both for this and hope you have the support you need to continue doing so.

Bizarrely, I find myself defending Ole here to some degree. The general attacks on tantric buddhism by the Trimondi site I think are questionable. The whole site seems an anti-Buddhist diatribe.

AFAIK - and I open to correction - no-one has accused Ole of forcing himself upon them. Nor, again AFAIK, does Ole teach some special tantric sex. Indeed, he vehemently denied as much when Shamar accused him of the same when they fell out a couple of years ago. I think the truth is more complicated and more mundane and more grubby.

His claim to be some kind of Dharma Protector no doubt makes some women think that sex with him will mean some kind of supernatural transmission - I do not know if he says this privately but it does not appear that he does so publicly. Some people fall for it anyway.

It is my impression that sexual fedelity in a relationship is one of the things that Ole views as a "stiff idea" and so women (and their partners) are in a sense ridiculed if she turns down a chance to sleep with Ole. So there may be group pressure to encourage women to sleep with Ole and for their partners to agree to it. This I can imagine causes all sorts of conflicts and unhappiness.

Being Ole's girlfriend (or one of them at least) provides a lot of status in DWB. To be singled out by him and to have such privileged access is an envied position that some women compete for, from what I have read on this thread. It's a way to get ahead in the popularity contest that is a feature of DWB membership.

I don't think all of Ole's girlfriends are victims or are harmed particularly (although some no doubt regret it). Ole seems to view sex solely as a fun pastime - there can be no serious bonding in the numerous encounters he is reported - even now in his 70s - to engage in. He sleeps around for his own benefit. I can't believe that there is much in it for his partners other than some brief sexual gratification and the envy of the other girls. It is certainly not a relationship of equals.

To sleep around like he is reported to is not a natural behavior in my opinion. It is certainly not something that befits a Buddhist teacher.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2013 05:45AM by warrenz.

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warrenz
Bizarrely, I find myself defending Ole here to some degree. The general attacks on tantric buddhism by the Trimondi site I think are questionable. The whole site seems an anti-Buddhist diatribe.

I agree. The kind of hysteria this attempts to whip up only really plays into the hands of those like Nydahl, who use that to denounce their opponents as mentally unstable flakes.

I haven't had any involvement with DWB for some years now so I have nothing new to add to my posts and as I don't foresee myself having any involvement with them in the future I see no point in contributing beyond this post.

I have no experience of 'tantric rituals' but in my opinion it's all nonsense. I never wanted special powers or to enter into a special relationship with anyone within the organisation. I suspect that the claims of 'enlightenment through sex' is just a means of getting students to become willing sex partners.

Nydahl has sex with his students by his own admission. I suspect some are damaged by the experience and others aren't. I've seen him tongue kissing and fondling a student but she seemed as eager as he was.

I was never threatened. I was never forced into giving money.

I will say that a huge amount of pressure was exerted upon me to dedicate many long hours in construction work, event organisation and editing lectures. I was put on a 'guilt trip' if I didn't comply.

I witnessed some disgraceful behaviour during a phowa course in Spain. I was deeply shocked. I've heard some overtly racist remarks made by 'high ranking' travelling teachers.

Nydahl openly expresses his dislike and distrust of Muslims. I found that there seems to be a strong 'right wing' bias among his students. Several openly expressed their hatred for Muslims and for black people in general.

Drinking to excess was common after many events.

There does seem to be some leaning towards Buddhist teaching but the vast majority of lectures are platforms for Nydahl to boast about his adventures or for his students to regurgitate what they've heard from him almost like mindless automatons.

During my time with them DWB was little more than a social club for east European ex-pats to get together for parties and dating. As a UK citizen I can't say I was ever made to feel welcome (with one or two exceptions).

I'm not sure if Nydahl has set out to create a cult but I would certainly say that, in my opinion, his followers have created a personality cult around him.

I urge anyone with an interest in investigating Buddhism to stay well away from DWB. Do not get involved.

I wish everyone who has been affected by their involvement within DWB my best wishes and hope you find some kind of 'recovery'.

It's been interesting reading other peoples accounts and thanks for sharing your experiences. It did help me a lot.

Steve

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karam-mudra
Without going here to far he learnt to control his erotic power -I saw him once sitting on the platform while my frst Phowa course and while looking at his womb I saw, he had an erection - and is now able to act as a Tantric master. The erection is one of the holy sign of those masters and the energy of it is spreading into the room, the tantric form of blessing. It is nothing but a sign of power and of surrender.

On this left-handed path you have to make specific vows. One of the most important vow is to keep all the practises secretely, otherwise you will go to Vajra hell. Holpfully Nydahl does not beliefe in that concept.

Another vow means that you are obligated to have sex every day.

This is very important information you're sharing with us, Marte. These are secrets that aren't even in the tantric literature (except possibly in the "twilight language"), so you're helping us understand the nature of Vajrayana Buddhism. Which, I'd like to point out, actually means "Penis Way" (also translated as "Diamond Way"). In the twilight language, Vajra (jewel/adamantine/thunderbolt) refers to the penis, the lotus refers to the female genitalia. So "the jewel in the lotus" (one translation of the Tibetan prayer, "Om mani padma hum") means....


So in any case, it's becoming clearer and clearer that tantra is taken from the Shaivite phallus worship. In the left-handed path, it's combined with the Shakti worship of the "yoni", the female sex organ. But in a patriarchal culture like Tibet's, and the even more extremely patriarchal culture of monastic Buddhism, the male element takes precedence, while the female element is no longer an active agent, as it was in ancient Hindu tantra. The female element is reduced to a passive object.

As far as the question of Nydahl "forcing himself" on anyone goes, I don't recall that anyone has ever made that claim. What women have said, and karam-mudra has posted this earlier, is that he uses hypnosis to gain compliance. One woman had a blog up, in which she described being coerced into serving as a "consort" along with other women during an all-night tantric initiation in which Nydahl officiated. But like karma-mudra, she was required to take down her blog.

In legal cases against gurus, courts have held that there is no such thing as consent to sex, when psychologically needy and vulnerable victims of a religious authority are involved. Due to the psychological profile of many followers, among whom there's often a high percentage of individuals who suffered abuse in childhood from parental or other authority figures, the victim is so needy of the guru's approval, that he/she is not capable of giving free consent. So we should bear this in mind when considering such questions.

I'm not sure why the Trimondis have credibility issues. Could it be due to the outrageous nature of tantric Buddhism itself? Remember, this is an ancient system that survived in a society that was frozen in time until the middle of the 20th Century. The origins of tantra are in ancient Indian fertility rituals and clan initiation rituals, some of which survive in India today, clandestinely. The Trimondis haven't made anything up. In fact, most of this information can be had in a university course on Tibetan Buddhism (though the instructors always say the rituals are done through visualization, not with live consorts). There are numerous books available that discuss the roots of tantra, the symbolism involved, the role of consorts, etc.

I think what we're seeing is a divergence in male and female experience of TB in the West. Some women followers of Vajrayana see a hidden side to the tradition, due to the teachers' attempts to involve them in secret behind-the-scenes sex. The male students are able to pursue Dharma study unmolested and oblivious to problems that may be occurring behind the scenes. A patriarchal religion like Vajrayana would naturally tend to privilege male followers. Hopefully as more and more abuses come to light, and the hidden side of Vajrayana is exposed, more support for the trials women suffer in the sangha will be forthcoming.

"So in any case, it's becoming clearer and clearer that tantra is taken from the Shaivite phallus worship."

Yes of course. When in India some Tantrikas, followers especially of Shiva´s cult - like Sahara, Tilopa e.al. merged in the Tantric rituals in what they had heard about Budda´s teachings, a totally new esoteric cult was born. Sorry here for all believers, but the Vajra mythology is just a myth. So it is not surprising to see the second day after new moon is the most worshipped day in tantric-tibetan Lamaism, the day of Shiva.

"What women have said, and karam-mudra has posted this earlier, is that he uses hypnosis to gain compliance."

That is a more complicated issue than you wrote here. We should figuratevly understand it and not in that way he would act like a hypnosist on stage. What I want to say that he uses state of minds, in which you are very suggestible, for example in meditation or in the state of an opening Kundalini, to give transferences. We had a useful disscussion with rrrmoderator here some time ago.

@warrenz
"Bizarrely, I find myself defending Ole here to some degree. The general attacks on tantric buddhism by the Trimondi site I think are questionable. The whole site seems an anti-Buddhist diatribe."

The Trimondis are only two of various authors who intensively studied Vajrayana and came to a dissillusioning result. That represents a scientific theory and not an anti-Buddhist diatribe. From the point of a believer may be it sounds like it.

@ suenam
"I agree. The kind of hysteria this attempts to whip up only really plays into the hands of those like Nydahl, who use that to denounce their opponents as mentally unstable flakes."

Here is not to ask Nydahl or others to denounce us as mentally instable flakes, he is welcome to do that, but to share our knowledge. Hysteria, honey?

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Misstyk
These are secrets that aren't even in the tantric literature (except possibly in the "twilight language"), so you're helping us understand the nature of Vajrayana Buddhism.

As you said yourself, this is "taken from the Shaivite phallus worship", so possibly the reason it isn't in tantric literature is because it isn't part of Vajrayana. Your logic looks like this; satan is mentioned in the Bible, satanists have orgies, therefore the Bible promotes orgies! - clearly you have made a connection based upon a generalisation that doesn't hold true.

Two of the criticisms of Nydahl I have put forward are this; 1) he mistakenly interprets the tantras in a literal way, 2) he views women as helpless victims that require his protection. Your view seems to take this seriously as the truth about all Vajrayana Buddhism when it is in fact Nydahl's distortion of it.

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karam-mudra
So it is not surprising to see the second day after new moon is the most worshipped day in tantric-tibetan Lamaism, the day of Shiva.

...to share our knowledge...

I'm not sure what you have knowledge of here, but the most worshipped days in most traditions are the 10th and 25th, for Guru Rinpoche and Dakini day respectively. You seem to be mixing two different systems.

It may well be that Nydahl practices some unusual Shavite form, but as far as I know, the worship of Shiva as a literal being is purely Vedic and not a Buddhist practice at all.