Fivecentschange thank you for joining in.

What happens on this forum is unprecedented. Since Tibetan Buddhism moved to the West, no intellectual and social work frame has been establish to tackle the problem of the side effect.

I believe that there should be a pan European tribunal which would deal with the problem of corruption and abuse in the religious context. The tribunal which would follow a guiding principle of protecting the weaker.

As we can see from this forum, unethical religious corporations will not hesitate to undermine individuals’ liberty of free speech in effort of silencing those who dare to ask difficult questions.

And there are few who dare. There are very strong taboos in Diamond Way which prevent people from asking questions and standing up to the religious authority.

What refers to Nydahl’s comments of German women not being attractive, I would say they rather reflect his own insecurities. His ex girlfriend Cathy Hartung is German. Maybe he feels insecure because of her independently growing power in the organisation?

Hi fivecents change.

As you know, you’re not alone in your experiences. My enthusiasm and joy for Buddhism has been somewhat diminished after my experiences with the group. I do, however, congratulate you on having the strength of conviction not to succumb to the pressure of conforming within the group. In my experience it wasn’t a particularly forceful push for my conformity but rather a slow, drip by drip approach which I suspect was designed to wear down my resistance to the group mentality. After a while I started to question my moderate stance on Islam. I was startled and a little ashamed at having allowed the group to influence me in such a negative way.

The problem, as you quite correctly point out, is that no one is asking questions. When I did ask questions I usually received evasive and vague answers which didn’t address the issue. It would then be intimated that I was holding onto ‘stiff ideas’ and that progress towards liberation and enlightenment would be hindered until I gave up my ‘stiff ideas’ (and adopted someone else’s).

I’m no Buddhist scholar, but if I understood anything from studying and practicing it was that we should be questioning constantly. Check and re-check. We are told that Buddhism isn’t a belief system and yet within DWB we are ‘asked’ to accept the word of the lama as truth. We can ask the lama questions but how do we know if he tells us the truth or if his answers come to us as a result of his ‘greater wisdom’? My conclusion is that Buddhism has become a belief system and it is my opinion that this is certainly the case within DWB. Nydahl speaks and you should believe him. This is the diamond way.

It’s very difficult when you’re ‘friends’ no longer want anything to do with you but if you leaving or expulsion means they turn their backs on you then were they really friends? I still regard the ‘core’ teaching (the ones that are fundamental to all the schools) valid and important. These teach compassion, and encourage analysis. Sadly, in my opinion, Buddhism has been hi-jacked by groups and individuals who seek to further themselves.

I have a question for you though. Did you find that many students seemed fixated with the idea of developing ‘special powers’? During my time with DWB I was struck by how many students seemed to want to develop ‘psychic’ powers.

Steve

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fivecentschange
DWB has somehow killed my joy for buddhism, I leave feeling empty and a need to redefine myself. I left some really good friends, but I just could not take it anymore. I felt that I wasn't true to myself and the values that I have spent so many years researching and coming to conclusions about. What bothers me the most is that you are suppost to have almost blind devotion for your teacher, and that I should try to see politics through his eyes. And I was told that Lama Ole would know more than me about most issues just because he is a Lama, even politics. Just because you are a Lama doesn't mean that you know everything. I also tried to e-mail Lama Ole questions about things that really bothered me, he answered me vaguely in two sentences, I did not really get any answers.

I think it is weird that DW buddhists are so critical of Islam and want muslims to leave their religions, but seeing what buddhism has had to go through with China I don't think they should say these things.

When I was at a retreat someone said some really disturbing racist things about muslims, I don't wish to repeat it.

I don't want to state my identity or where I am from. I don't want there to be rumors about me, it seems like gossip travels fast in DWB centers.

Unfortunately fivecentschange your experience is far from atypical as you'll see if you read back over this very long thread. Not all Buddhist groups are like DWB - indeed, thankfully very few are like DWB. If nothing else you have learned something about how even so-called Buddhist groups can be far from havens of peace and compassion. DWB is a personality cult of Ole. He has no real qualifications. He is not a lama. He has the support of some lamas in India who need him for their own political ends. That's all.

However, you are to be commended. You had the courage to see what was wrong and leave and not pretend it was otherwise just to stay in the group. I hope you are successful in finding a real Buddhist group to continue your practice with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2013 08:32PM by warrenz.

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SteveLpool

I have a question for you though. Did you find that many students seemed fixated with the idea of developing ‘special powers’? During my time with DWB I was struck by how many students seemed to want to develop ‘psychic’ powers.

Steve

I never heard of anything like that, some people believed that Ole was really protected by mahakala when driving his car and almost crashing and dying or something. I don't remember exactly the story, but it sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. One thing that attraced me to buddhism was because I thought that there was no superstition, and that the buddhas aren't gods, they are aspects that symbolizes for example compassion. But maybe I misunderstood it, either way it turned me off.

The people in the center I went to were good people, and some differed a bit with the Lama. But in the end they seemed to open up more and more to his politics. At one point I started to question my values too, if they were okay. I started to panic a bit, and a friend of mine woke me up and made me leave. It might sound a bit extreme, but to me it has become a camp for recruting people to the right-wing. It is not so much buddhism, but more politics. In one book Lama Ole sais that it is more natural for a man to cheat, it doesn't mean anything if he does it. But if a woman cheats it means that something is wrong in the relationship. So to me that sounds like women should be okay with it if the man cheats, but if the woman cheats its not really okay. That women shouldn't care if men cheats on them.

No one has tried to coerce me to stay though, maybe because they believe that it is better off if someone who is too critical leaves. If you are provoked by islam-things that Ole sais etc... it is just because you are proud or have stiff ideas.

I think there are a lot of good and idealistic people who are DMW buddhists, they maybe had some idea of buddhism and ended up with something else. The more they hang in the sangha, the more friends they get, and then the harder it is to leave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2013 12:26AM by fivecentschange.

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fivecentschange
In one book Lama Ole sais that it is more natural for a man to cheat, it doesn't mean anything if he does it. But if a woman cheats it means that something is wrong in the relationship. So to me that sounds like women should be okay with it if the man cheats, but if the woman cheats its not really okay. That women shouldn't care if men cheats on them.

All of Ole's ideas on women only serve to justify his own sleeping around. In fact, I strongly suspect he has some form of sex addiction. At one point he had a wife, a full-time girl friend, several girls he travelled with and women in his various centers all keen to sleep with him. He must have slept with a different woman pretty much every night. That is the behavior of someone who only views sex as a recreational. It's not normal nor is it morally neutral - especially for someone in a position of authority and especially someone claiming to be a spiritual teacher. For a man now in his seventies - frankly it's pathological behavior.

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fivecentschange
No one has tried to coerce me to stay though, maybe because they believe that it is better off if someone who is too critical leaves. If you are provoked by islam-things that Ole sais etc... it is just because you are proud or have stiff ideas.

It appears DWB's modus operandi is to sideline or even throw out those who do not agree with Ole on everything. The smart ones like you generally leave of their own accord before this happens though.

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fivecentschange
I think there are a lot of good and idealistic people who are DMW buddhists, they maybe had some idea of buddhism and ended up with something else. The more they hang in the sangha, the more friends they get, and then the harder it is to leave.

This is a problem in all cultic organizations. People become entwined with it to such a degree that it is hard to disentangle without reinventing one's life completely. The social side of DWB is more prominent than in any other Buddhist group I have heard of. I do think people do join and remain in it because of the comraderie and the parties. It's a major draw for young and lonely people but it has nothing to do with Buddhism.

"Apparently as he has stated in buddhism today that Germanic women aren't as attractive as women from the baltic countries because we are too independent."

"In one book Lama Ole sais that it is more natural for a man to cheat, it doesn't mean anything if he does it. But if a woman cheats it means that something is wrong in the relationship. So to me that sounds like women should be okay with it if the man cheats, but if the woman cheats its not really okay. That women shouldn't care if men cheats on them."

Really profund and wise remarks by honeybaby Nydahl!


Who read in German should have a look at my lawyers comment on his blog:

[www.kanzleikompa.de]


That´s the way to deal with. The comment is also widely spread within the internet-community of lawyers.

I left around summer last year, it has been hard losing contact with friends. Fortunatley this is not the worst group you could get into, its not like anyone has harassed me or anything since I left. I was in a center in Germany, DWB is quite big here. I feel like I have been able to say what I wanted to say about this issue here. Thanks for all the support, but now its time to move on. I wish every DW buddhist all the best, I don't hate them, I think they are good people with good intentions who might get sucked into political ideas which are not so good imo.

An oppinion worth taking into account:
[syndikalismus.wordpress.com]

Its been a while since I last posted here, a long while, good to see the thread still progressing and expanding. I am not going to pick up on any particular posts, rather add what I see as relevant information. Freedom of expression, speach, its something that has been fought for over the years and I find it interesting that some recent internet posts commenting on Ole Nydahl in a negative manner have seriously irked one of the Baltic Sangha`s. So much so that they recently had a meeting, a gathering of the said country`s Sangha`s to discuss what should be done to counter such `slander` of Ole online, legal recourse was mentioned. This just reinstates my impression that followers of Ole are obsessive in the extreme, forget the real world outside the Sangha , only what is circulated and adopted within the group is tolerated, regardless of where the group focus is heading (of course, it is always headed where Ole says it should be headed towards) it always swings towards blind faith.

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puella
An oppinion worth taking into account:
[syndikalismus.wordpress.com]

I'm German, so I watched some of the video. While I can well imagine that some or a lot of what he says is based on fact, I have to say that to me, his presentation is filled with such a tone of broad and arrogant dismissal as opposed to encouraging the audience to think for itself, that I'm very suspicious of him. I googled his name and there's a huge amount of controversy around him in German speaking countries, from what I could tell. But such controversies are good, because they can encourage discourse--I'm sure not all is well in the state of Tibet, as we love to think in the West.

He reminds me of Ole Nydahl, oddly. Both are full of themselves and believe they have eaten the truth with a spoon, as we say in German.