Keep the focus on Ole and his cruel speech at the expense of Muslims.

The world is so volatile at this moment, the last thing we need is this.

And this morning, news was just released of a plot to bomb the Sejm, Poland's parliament. The suspect has ties to the University of Krakow.

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suenam
...empowerments are not just "meant for blessing" - that itself is a dualism perpetrated by Nydahl - they are self-empowements to practice, not blessings coming from outside.

Suenam, there are different types of empowerments. What Rudi refers to as a "blessing empowerment" is an empowerment given publicly to anyone where you will not receive any precise instructions on creation and completion phases of the Yidam practice. You can take the empowerment but to be able to apply the meditation as your Yidam practice, you will have to get more detailed instructions from a qualified lama.

Ole doesn't give any kind of empowerments for the sole reason he doesn't have a required qualification or transmission and certainly not because "he doesn't have time" for this kind of activity, as he often explains himself.

Regardless of how many "letters of confirmation" and "references" from Kagyu teachers Ole's been able to put up on his website, he just isn't a qualified Buddhist lama in the traditional sense. For anyone wishing to argue, it'be good to examin his spiritual background described in his autobiographies Entering the Diamond Way and Riding the Tiger. I've compiled a short summary of the events presented in his first book. For clarity I've kept the term "blessing empowerment" here:

• On drugs from 1961 (age of 20) to 1970, on LSD since March 1966.
• First went to Nepal in 1968: took drugs, traveled around, smuggled gold and drugs back to Europe. No spiritual teachings received.
• Late summer – early fall 1968: second trip to Nepal. In the book: “half a year after the Prague Spring” and “shortly after Armstrong’s Moon landing “(inconsistent dates: first event took place in 1968, whereas the second one in 1969). First brief encounter with Tsechu Rinpoche, no teachings or meditation instructions received
• Early 1969: Ole convicted of drug smuggling, spent 4 months in jail in Copenhagen, released mid-summer. First meditative experiences with some help of books
• Fall 1969: travel to India and Nepal. No encounters with Tsechu Rinpoche.
• December 22, 1969, Katmandu, Nepal: met 16th Karmapa and Tsechu Rinpoche, took part in blessing empowerments and in Black Crown ceremonies while following Karmapa for two months. No teachings or meditation instructions received.
• Spring 1970: Karmapa and Tsechu Rinpoche leave. Ole and Hannah go on two trips through Himalaya Mountains, taking drugs incl LSD. A vision of Chenrezig. Met several monks and nuns, no teachings or meditation instructions received.
• 6 months, up to September 1970: teaching English for living in Nepal. Continued taking drugs, incl LSD. Receive blessings from Tsechu Rinpoche yet no teachings or meditation instructions.
• September 1970: gave up drugs, by that time Ole had been on drugs for nine years, including on LSD for 4.5 years. Went to Sikkim, encountered 16th Karmapa in Rumtek for the second time, took refuge. Asked Karmapa for a formal practice, received mantras of 2nd Karmapa Karma Pakshi, Dorje Phamo and Mahakala. Spent a few days in Rumtek, had to leave as his permit expired
• Fall 1970, Sonada: met Kalu Rinpoche. During one week attended basic teachings on Samsaric existence. Did not accept Kalu Rinpoches teachings about hell realms. Till today Ole has been offering his own interpretation of this traditional teaching: “paranoia state of mind in the human world” rather than a separate realm of existence. Went on to receive teachings on impermanence and suffering. Started with Ngondro. Met Ningma lamas, however no teachings or instructions received.
• Short trip to Bhutan disguised in Karmapa’s truck. Spent a few days next to Karmapa. Asked for instructions. Karmapa sent them back to Sonada to continue studies with Kalu Rinpoche.
• Went back to Sonada, continued with prostrations.
• January 1, 1971: finished 111 111 prostrations.
• During 10 days took several blessing empowerments with Karmapa. Karmapa left for Bhutan.
• Took the Bodhisattva vow with young Shamar Rinpoche
• Fall 1971: Kalu Rinpoche leaves for the US. Ole and Hannah go to Sikkim to receive several blessing empowerments from Karmapa.
• Fall 1971: 16th Karmapa sends Ole and Hannah back to Europe. Ole’s commentary: “Now we were ready to teach others what we have learned ourselves.“
• February 1972: Ole and Hannah return to India. Ole receives a Phowa transmission from Ayang Tulku.
• 6 weeks of Dream-yoga with Tsechu Rinpoche.
• A few days in Rumtek of “exchanging ideas” with Karmapa on running centers in the West: a very brief description though, no quotes on any details or instructions given by Karmapa. On the contrary, in a book by Gendun Rinpoche Heart Advice From a Mahamudra Master you will find a detailed story of how the 16th Karmapa sent him to the West and the instructions he received on spreading Buddha-Dharma there.
• October 1972: went back to Copenhagen to teach and establish a first center with a supporting letter of the 16th Karmapa to the Queen of Denmark.

What followed can be found in his book Riding the Tiger. However one thing you’ll never find there is any reference to how Ole has ever taken any study courses or dedicated any significant time to meditation.

There are different types of teachers out there. It's all very well described in the article The qualifications of an authentic Buddhist teacher on Shamarpas website. A teacher, in order to be able to guide you to enlightenment, must have: 1) a solid philosophical basis (complete profound studies and have a thorough understanding of Buddha’s teachings and commentaries), 2) key instructions on a Yidam practice, and 3) profound experience in meditation. Ole certainly does not have the first two, and his experience in meditation is extremely limited. To confirm the latter, just go on a tour with him (as I did many times during my 10+ years at DW). Himself, Ole admits that he “doesn’t sit to meditate” in one of his earlier videos about meditation. He says he is constantly resting in the Mahamudra experience. I won't argue whether or not one can reach this advanced state without any profound experience in meditation. What's more important for his followers to consider is, if this is the case, whether he is able to pass his "spiritual achievments" to anyone.

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stpauli

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suenam
...empowerments are not just "meant for blessing" - that itself is a dualism perpetrated by Nydahl - they are self-empowements to practice, not blessings coming from outside.

Suenam, there are different types of empowerments. What Rudi refers to as a "blessing empowerment" is an empowerment given publicly to anyone where you will not receive any precise instructions on creation and completion phases of the Yidam practice. You can take the empowerment but to be able to apply the meditation as your Yidam practice, you will have to get more detailed instructions from a qualified lama.

Ole doesn't give any kind of empowerments for the sole reason he doesn't have a required qualification or transmission and certainly not because "he doesn't have time" for this kind of activity, as he often explains himself.

Yes, I agree that Nydahl does not give empowerments for that reason, however those given by qualified lineage holders are intended for practice. The main point was that Nydahl cannot therefore be a "root guru", however DWB requires that you take Nydahl as such, and this is clearly based on a total misconception as your second post confirms.

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stpauli
...in a book by Gendun Rinpoche Heart Advice From a Mahamudra Master you will find a detailed story of how the 16th Karmapa sent him to the West and the instructions he received on spreading Buddha-Dharma there.

Can you give me a page reference please?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2012 12:13AM by suenam.

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suenam

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stpauli
...in a book by Gendun Rinpoche Heart Advice From a Mahamudra Master you will find a detailed story of how the 16th Karmapa sent him to the West and the instructions he received on spreading Buddha-Dharma there.

Can you give me a page reference please?

Sorry, I thought you meant Nydahl, now I see you meant, “To bring the Dharma to the West, it was necessary to send an awakened master with stable realization, and so the Karmapa chose Gendun Rinpoche." (p.273) Clearly this description excludes Nydahl.

Thank you for the post Stpauli, I found it very informative, but it does beg the question of your own story regarding DWB and why you stayed for over 10 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2012 03:55AM by suenam.

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suenam
Can you give me a page reference please?

Suenam, you may want to check out page 243, chapter "The Karmapa sends Gendun Rinpoche to Europe".

There is one important letter on Ole's website: Karmapa's letter dated March 26th, 1979 It states that Ole and Hannah are "teachers of the fundamental teachings on ethics and practice of the precious path of Lord Buddha Shakyamuni". It also reads: "I have empowered them to grant Refuge and Bodhisattva Vow to any person in absence of qualified lamas."

Those two points "teachers of the fundamental teachings" and "in absence of qualified lamas" explain quite a lot. What I understand here is that the 16th Karmapa sent Ole and Hannah to give basic teachings and to establish Dharma centers where qualified lamas could then do the job of giving authentic Buddha-Dharma.

imho Ole is fairly good at giving basic teachings, just like many of his students who give 10-minute or longer talks in DW centers. There are however some "basic teachings" I wouldn't recommend getting in DW centers, particularly those on karma, compassion/wisdom and ethical behavior. Those are rather perverted if you compare them to the teachings of authentic lamas like Shamar Rinpoche, Kalu Rinpoche, Gendun Rinpoche, both 16th and 17th Karmapas etc.

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suenam
The fact that you are writing here now is exactly evidence that this was not a unifed experience for you, but rather one that Nydahl tried to impose on you against your will. Non-duality does not mean that other people need to fit themselves into Nydahl's rigid and inflexible value-system, or be forced to conform against their will to his desires.

When we hear Nydahl championing Western values against Islamic values, and see the way his lawyers behave towards you and other bloggers, how can you claim that for Nydahl, "The distinctions made between what is right and what is wrong are abolished."? Clearly self-interest still dictates his value-system and that is precisely why he has not transcended duality.

It was indeed not a unified experience for me. My meditation practice was stuck, I felt I was never told what meditation actually is and how to do it properly. It felt mechanical and joyless most of the time, but I was holding on to the belief that this ritual would liberate me one day, suddenly, out of the blue, in spite of the lack of any felt progress.
Now I have other teachers, fortunately; teachers who spent a very long time in retreat. What an enormous difference -- if Ole's followers knew what they are missing! I could solve my difficulties with my meditation practice and feel properly guided now. Now it is hard for me to consider what I did before to be meditation at all.
The reason I am following this thread and posting here is that I still have a mess in my head. I was listening uncritically to Ole for so many years. I was like the Ole followers who were banned from this forum, but used to protect myself rather unconsciously by avoiding to read anything critical about Ole and instinctively telling to myself that these people criticising him are not ready, or even stupid, and their minds are veiled and they do not have the good karma to understand Ole's Yogi-style.

This forum helps me to open my eyes but it is sometimes painful. I feel disturbed. I get angry with Ole and that worries me because I am afraid of accumulating bad karma. I try to think that his motivation is good but now I rather happen to think that his motivation probably used to be good but is mixed with obstinacy of old age and Guru-pride now, the very pride that he warned against and accused others of. That is my impression from the last German center meeting in Braunschweig.
So many things that he said, that I internalised, that I trusted to be true, turn out to be not helpful, only partially true or simply wrong and misleading and confusing. Not everything, but too much. If most had been wrong, I think I would have noticed before, though I must admit I was quite blind.

BUT would I have become a Buddhist if I had met a less charismatic teacher? I am not sure. Would I have started "meditating", if I had received proper, but more demanding instructions? Ole makes it very easy to start. I think there are indeed things I can be grateful for, much more than that. I should just have left earlier, but believing this is the fastest way to enlightenment, being told I cannot judge my progress myself, why would I?

I have been considering to quit following this thread because of the pain, but the pain comes anyway when I get or read proper teachings and involuntarily compare them to Ole's teachings and find out how distorted they sometimes are. There is no end in sight yet.
A short while ago, I started feeling sorry for him. I wonder if Hannah's death broke his heart. I am sure he loved her. Maybe he is actually a very lonely man now. Alone on top of this organization, having to play this role. No one he would accept as a teacher.

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Rudi
I have been considering to quit following this thread because of the pain, but the pain comes anyway when I get or read proper teachings and involuntarily compare them to Ole's teachings and find out how distorted they sometimes are. There is no end in sight yet.

Hi Rudi

I know exactly how it feels. I used to be Oles student for a very long time. At some point I noticed I was getting more and more disturbed by his hateful speech and by the very low ethics within his centers. On the other hand after many years of reading mainly his books and listening to his teachings and to lectures of his traveling teachers I realized all of those were so incredibly shallow compared to authentic Buddha-Dharma given by genuine lamas. Every time I listened to the very same stuff I'd try to find some enlightening highest wisdom in what Ole had to say. At some point you just cannot trick yourself anymore, you realize you hear the same stuff over years and years that most of the time has even nothing to do with Dharma. No matter what his courses and lectures might be called, be it a “Marpa course”, or “death and rebirth”, or “Buddhism in the West”, etc. the content of his talks varies only very little. But the worst thing is that there have never been any real teachings on meditation. I felt stuck in my practice too, just like you. In fact it’s only logical since Ole has never really learned to meditate properly nor does he meditate in his daily life. What experience in meditation can he possibly pass on to his students? How can he possibly guide anyone in meditation?

My feelings towards Ole would also shift for a while from one extreme of being angry with him to the other extreme of feeling pity for him. However neither really helps you in your life and on your spiritual path. I’m not sure we’ll ever understand his motivation. He most likely believes that he’s a great liberated master. Bless him. It'd be probably more constructive to remember that through being attracted to his charisma one gets a chance to meet authentic teachers sooner or later, which as you said may never happen otherwise. It’s great that you now have spiritual teachers you can learn from. Concentrate on this, make the most out of it. Be compassionate to yourself too, it should ease the pain. You certainly didn't waste time at DW. There are no perfect spiritual ways. We all have our ways. It matters what opportunities you have now, not what you could have achieved if things had gone “right”. I don't mean to sound patronizing though. I'd like to support you because I've been in your shoes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2012 05:02AM by stpauli.

Rudi
This forum helps me to open my eyes but it is sometimes painful. I feel disturbed. I get angry with Ole and that worries me because I am afraid of accumulating bad karma. I try to think that his motivation is good but now I rather happen to think that his motivation probably used to be good but is mixed with obstinacy of old age and Guru-pride now, the very pride that he warned against and accused others of. That is my impression from the last German center meeting in Braunschweig.
So many things that he said, that I internalised, that I trusted to be true, turn out to be not helpful, only partially true or simply wrong and misleading and confusing. Not everything, but too much. If most had been wrong, I think I would have noticed before, though I must admit I was quite blind.

BUT would I have become a Buddhist if I had met a less charismatic teacher? I am not sure. Would I have started "meditating", if I had received proper, but more demanding instructions? Ole makes it very easy to start. I think there are indeed things I can be grateful for, much more than that. I should just have left earlier, but believing this is the fastest way to enlightenment, being told I cannot judge my progress myself, why would I?

I have been considering to quit following this thread because of the pain, but the pain comes anyway when I get or read proper teachings and involuntarily compare them to Ole's teachings and find out how distorted they sometimes are. There is no end in sight yet.
A short while ago, I started feeling sorry for him. I wonder if Hannah's death broke his heart. I am sure he loved her. Maybe he is actually a very lonely man now. Alone on top of this organization, having to play this role. No one he would accept as a teacher.[/quote]

Most of us who spent time with DW and left or had been kicked out had to or still are going through what you are going through. Confusion anger fear that's what probably happens when one leaves a cult behind .
don't be afraid of accumulating bad karma for your self it is such a rubbish( not karma but going against Ole). His explanation on karma is almost Hindu any way.
It is interesting you mentioned Braunschweig , last time i went there few years ago and that's were my doubts started to cripple in about whole DW business.
i tried to ignore those doubts until my girlfriend helped me to realize what kind of organization they really are.
However this experience taught me a great lesson. always be critical about somebody no matter what they claim to be especially someone claiming that he/she are liberated from circle of samsara but forgetting to explain what it means and knowing all answers to all questions.
And what is Oles explanation on enlightenment, that it is like whole cities electrical power going through the body.In my subjective opinion it is total nonsense.
I don't know how Ole was before i met him but i think that he lost his ways after his teachers passed away and he stopped taking advise from anyone else.

Hi all,

I told you here that I got an interim injunction which was instigated by Nydahl and his lawyer. I exactly followed the judge´s decision after a few uncertainties about what to say and what not to say.

Now they brought a lawsuit against me accusing me of deformatory statement which is not exactly the same as action for slander. I think in about a half year the trial will take place.

May be some of you remember my post from page 112, I said:

"Today I saw my doctor and psychotherapist and she is threatened by Nydahls solicitor with legal action when she does not change her report in which she diagnosed me as victim of occult violence. It is so grotesque! The must have huge fear."

That was not true, I misunderstood my doctor and I say publicly sorry for posting it. I would do the same on my blog if I could, but it was taken down.

It is not my style to lie.