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puella
Other Shamar Rinpoche’s Letters with two (or three) different signatures.

Is there some suggestion that Shamar's letter of approval of Nydahl is a forgery? Not sure what you are getting at here. Surely there can be no serious question that Shamar does not support Nydahl?

Without Shamar's backing Ole Nydahl would not be as prominent as he is and as able to get away with as much as he does. If the Karma Kagyu lineage were not split I do not think Nydahl would get away with his outrageous behavior.

I am sorry if this offends some but Shamar Rinpoche has a certain amount of blame to bear for Ole Nydahl's behavior. If he and his Karmapa candidate were to withdraw their support from Nydahl, Diamondway would be in serious trouble. Unfortunately so would Thaye Dorje's candidature so Shamar will continue to say nothing that might upset Ole (or at least withdraw it very quickly if he does).

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warrenz

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puella
Other Shamar Rinpoche’s Letters with two (or three) different signatures.

Is there some suggestion that Shamar's letter of approval of Nydahl is a forgery? Not sure what you are getting at here. Surely there can be no serious question that Shamar does not support Nydahl?

Without Shamar's backing Ole Nydahl would not be as prominent as he is and as able to get away with as much as he does. If the Karma Kagyu lineage were not split I do not think Nydahl would get away with his outrageous behavior.

I am sorry if this offends some but Shamar Rinpoche has a certain amount of blame to bear for Ole Nydahl's behavior. If he and his Karmapa candidate were to withdraw their support from Nydahl, Diamondway would be in serious trouble. Unfortunately so would Thaye Dorje's candidature so Shamar will continue to say nothing that might upset Ole (or at least withdraw it very quickly if he does).

Yes - I think given the quoted 2013 date, the dodgy signature, and the totally different style, I think the letter is questionable.

I notice Shamarpa's take on Islamic extremism, "...just as we should show compassion on the victims, we should also have compassion on the terrorists due to their ignorance." is also radically different to Nydahl's patronising, dismissive, and dualistic approach.

While Shamarpa does try to walk a fine line between Buddhism and politics, he nonetheless appears to remain someone who aims at transcending dualistic thinking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 04:17PM by suenam.

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suenam
Yes - I think given the quoted 2013 date, the dodgy signature, and the totally different style, I think the letter is questionable.

I notice Shamarpa's take on Islamic extremism, "...just as we should show compassion on the victims, we should also have compassion on the terrorists due to their ignorance." is also radically different to Nydahl's patronising, dismissive, and dualistic approach.

While Shamarpa does try to walk a fine line between Buddhism and politics, he nonetheless appears to remain someone who aims at transcending dualistic thinking.

I am sure Shamarpa does not agree with Nydahl on many things and no doubt, given their past public spats, wishes he did not have to rely on him. But he does rely on Ole for support and could not continue his campaign to control the Kagyu lineage without him.

I know many of Shamarpa's students do not like or support Nydahl also. It may not be a question you want to ask but I think you should ask why Shamarpa and his family and students (Jigmela, Khenpo Chodrak and others) as well as Thaye Dorje continue to turn a blind eye to Nydahl's behavior. As I said Shamarpa and Thaye Dorje have a share of the blame for what happens in Diamondway ias long as they do not choose to denounce it. The withdrawal of their support would stop Ole pretty much in his tracks.

I don't think either can really plead ignorance. Shame on both of them.

hmm, I'm not so sure about that - just as it seems inappropriate for Nydahl to rant about Islam or "guys lusting after girls" during a Dharma talk, so too it may seem that Shamarpa is focusing on what is important in Buddhism rather than getting involved in petty squabbles. It may well be that he is hoping that at some point Nydahl will change his ways, and as you say, he does rely on political support from DWB, but as I said, he is walking a tightrope there.

Personally I think Nydahl is big and ugly enough to take responsibility for himself and it is not really for Shamarpa to play "daddy" in this situation.

Nydahl has strongarmed the German Buddhist association and the letters show how he has manipulated Shamarpa in the same way. It is feasable that Shamarpa looks to the future to gain support from a hopefully less cultish DWB, but one thing is for sure - Shamarpa is still practising Buddhism while Nydahl is practising dualism.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2012 09:22PM by suenam.

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suenam
Personally I think Nydahl is big and ugly enough to take responsibility for himself and it is not really for Shamarpa to play "daddy" in this situation.

Nydahl has strongarmed the German Buddhist association and the letters show how he has manipulated Shamarpa in the same way. It is feasable that Shamarpa looks to the future to gain support from a hopefully less cultish DWB, but one thing is for sure - Shamarpa is still practising Buddhism while Nydahl is practising dualism.

But Ole's big thing is his devotion to the Kagyu lineage and his in fact some kind of emanation of Mahakala Dorje Bernagchen (whatever that means). If no one on either side of the Kagyu lineage wanted anything to do with him, he would at least have to do a major reinvention and would lose all credibility for his lineage claims. Or perhaps he would swear allegiance to the third Karmapa candidate Dawa Sangpo :0P

I think it is very probable that without the Karmapa controversy Ole Nydahl would not be as influential as he is. Shamar's continued support reveals his motives to be mercenary rather than any real concern for the BuddhaDharma. And also, Where is Thaye Dorje in all of this? He is an adult now and supposedly head of the Kagyu lineage. Does he have nothing to say on Ole Nydahl's behavior?

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suenam

Nydahl has strongarmed the German Buddhist association

This is scary. Entities like this should be objective. Can't they see the damage he's done to their own countrywomen?

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warrenz
But Ole's big thing is his devotion to the Kagyu lineage and his in fact some kind of emanation of Mahakala Dorje Bernagchen (whatever that means). If no one on either side of the Kagyu lineage wanted anything to do with him, he would at least have to do a major reinvention and would lose all credibility for his lineage claims. Or perhaps he would swear allegiance to the third Karmapa candidate Dawa Sangpo :0P

I think it is very probable that without the Karmapa controversy Ole Nydahl would not be as influential as he is. Shamar's continued support reveals his motives to be mercenary rather than any real concern for the BuddhaDharma. And also, Where is Thaye Dorje in all of this? He is an adult now and supposedly head of the Kagyu lineage. Does he have nothing to say on Ole Nydahl's behavior?

While it is true that they could intervene, neither Karmapa nor Shamarpa are directly responsibile for DWB.

It is possible that any attempt at 'outside' interference could well lead to DWB becoming even more isolated, extremist, and cult like.

Hi Misstyk,

whatever you may have heard about an ethic-comission in the space of the German Buddhist Foundation, forget it. The leader-board is informed about my story and the result is silence. Not that I would have expected annother reaction.

But really funny is the behavier of one member of the leader-board who is Zen-Buddhist, not a follower of Nydahl. He and some others discussed my story on the DBU-forum and he had such wonderful phantasies about the way I should be treated. I cannot repeat his proposals because of the complicated legal register he used and since they discussed about me, the forum is damaged as a result of technical problems, otherwise I would have posted the link.

And in the end he said it is to be regretted that Nydahl is blamed in such a matter.

@suenam
Thaye Dorje is the patron of Diamond Way. He and Sharmapa do have political power over Nydahl. While their power base is small, they can exist independently from Nydahl - especially Sharmapa has worked on getting followers in Europe. In any case where they strongly disagree with Nydahl, they could threaten to renounce the patronage and effectively end Nydahl's career. As they don't, I suppose they are ok with his overall impact.

@karam-mudra
Google Cache still has some of the discussion:

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

Translation of the relevant part:

"If concrete evidence for the validity of your accusations
should be available, you are invited to contact me directly
and the DBU will review the 'case' (if there is indeed one) and may draw conclusions from it. At least the DBU will then allow a public discussion of the allegations on the DBU website. "

Mrs. Riepe did not react to this offer. I have researched where and how she raised her accusations on the Internet - they are on a lot of sites. The most specific allegation that I have found is the following (emphasis added by me in uppercase):

"When I saw Nydahl in Poland in 2005 after he had opened my kundalini, he
offered me to his teacher by making the offering-mudra while he was looking at me, crying many tears and counting his teacher's blessings, what he was saying.
Later, AT HOME, I had such STRONG VISIONS # in which I had to have sex with
The young Karmapa! I was crying and saying: I can not do that. The IMAGINATION was so strong! It FELT LIKE to be raped. "

At least in this text by her she does NOT talk about physical acts, but of visions and ideas. Mrs. Riepe's allegations are based out these visions and ideas are from the outside (specifically, by Ole Nydahl and Trinley Thaye Dorje) was induced in a magical way.

My comment on that:

Firstly, IF such a thing should be possible, then at least it is not criminally relevant. Allegiations of sexual abuse or rape without PHYSICAL evidence are [criminally relevant]. Therefore, it is the duty of Board operator to prevent such allegations - partly to protect the person who expresses these allegiations against the potential legal consequences.

Secondly, there are also Buddhists, a lot of people, who do view such a thing as absolutely impossible. A discussion of the allegations in this forum would almost inevitably lead to questioning the mental health of the accusing party. NO internet forum is the right place for this [kind of discussion], including this one.

For these reasons, the discussion of Mrs. Riepe's allegations has been suppressed here. And they will also not be resumed.

Thank you, Sceptic Watcher, for finding some parts of the discussion from the DBU-Forum and for the translation.

Yes, when I contacted this member of the board, he - and that´s what he really asked me and what he is no longer talking abaout - said, ok, when you want to make this allegations against Nydahl you have to prove it by overriding the confidentiality of your therapist- to open the complete records of my therapy- towards a person of your trust inside the DBU. And he meant to be this person. Come on, what a procedure! Of course I did not react in the way he wanted.

The decisive parts of his contributions to the discussion are not there anymore, his proposals due to my person and the regret over the allegations against Nydahl. I don´t know, why. It would have been interesting to read it considering the reopened investigation.