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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 20, 2011 04:15AM

No one is obligated to visit this website or message board.

Coming here is one's own free choice. And this website doesnt seed spam or intrusive ads anywhere else.

If one has no doubt about ones practice or ones teacher, nothing here will be disturbing.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Sulmaya ()
Date: July 20, 2011 04:23PM

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Stoic
Sulmaya,

I judge, constantly and relentlessly. It is an indispensible part of the decision making process. I make a lot of decisions.

You may pretend that you are judgement free, it is the PC way, but I think that you are kidding yourself.

I also have resentments, particularly towards those who pretend to be on a higher plane in order to exert power over and to con others.
I am keeping those resentments too.

The only issue that I see here is a discussion of Ole Nydahl and his Diamond Way. Its a free discussion, nothing to be solved.
What problem do you see here that you think must be solved?

Dear Stoic,

It seems by the force of your words that I may have somehow offended you. Not my intention, my apologies if this is the case.

- Of course I have judgements, but I do not state them as facts. Like you, I am only voicing opinions here.
- As you have said, this is a free forum, with different people talking about issued raised. That’s what I’m doing.
- I am not overly PC at all. (But, since you bring it up, Ole Nydahl has often praised the ‘non-pc’ approach and speaks very openly about being critical and open with one’s resentments. Perhaps you two have more in common that you think? )


I am not trying to solve anything. Instead, like everyone here, I am giving ideas, hearing other's ideas, and together, we are hopefully learning.


Dear Corboy: I agree completely with your last statement.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 20, 2011 09:14PM

Yep.

However, many choose to visit and communicate on this thread because they want to practice the Buddha Way, DW presents as offering the Buddha Way, but the Bad Boy antics of Ole exemplfy exactly those features of the mainstream culture that Buddha walked away from.

And when the students ask questions or are troubled, they are told to leave.

So they choose to come here to validate their concerns.

Anyone happy with DW doesnt need to come here at all.

And in our tense world, the last thing needed is for a Buddhist teacher to say things at the expense of the Muslim community.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 20, 2011 09:25PM

If this is of interest, someone (perhaps someone else) wrote this on Facebook concerning the NKT tradition
[www.facebook.com]

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GOMPA - Official Fansite
To Whom It May Concern,

First allow me to introduce myself. My name is Sulmaya, I have been a practitioner within the New Kadampa Tradition for twelve years and have studied Buddhism and Vedanta-Dharma in general, both in other centers and organisations, as well as at University.

After summing up NKT this was written

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You are identifying yourselves very strongly with a group. Any group identification needs an enemy. Your enemy is forcefully imputed upon the Dalai Lama & co. Then, like any fan would do for their idol, you radically and aggressively defend your group, your god; In doing so, you have created an absolutist regime, in which no criticism, no middle way and no alternative methods of points of views are allowed. In short, you have become your imputed enemy.



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You are identifying yourselves very strongly with a group. Any group identification needs an enemy. Your enemy is forcefully imputed upon the Dalai Lama & co. Then, like any fan would do for their idol, you radically and aggressively defend your group, your god; In doing so, you have created an absolutist regime, in which no criticism, no middle way and no alternative methods of points of views are allowed. In short, you have become your imputed enemy.

Corboy--quite so. And it is this 'group identification' that many report to be a serious problem in DW.

Though this essay was written concerning NKT, at the end, en passant the author brings in Ole N:

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After thought

One of the most controversial and outspoken western lamas of the Karma-Kagyu tradition Diamond Way, Lama Ole Nydahl, was also faced with outside interference from the Dalai Lama regarding the true identity of their Karmapa. What they did was they continued with their practice and belief in their path, pointed out the erroneous involvement of the Dalai Lama in a respectful way, and mentioned nothing more of it. Even Lama Ole recognises that, to hundreds of thousands of people, the Dalai Lama is important and should be appreciated, cherished and above all, understood.
You, a far larger organisation, with generally more publicly respected teachers, have failed in this matter. You have put a logo on NKT and WSS and claim it as your own business, that like any other, needs to be protected, shunned from ‘evil doers’ and controlled absolutely.

Have you no faith in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha?


Thank you. Many wishes and best regards.

Note this: Ole N, when faced by 'outside interferance' from the Dalai Lama, did not, according to this author, retaliate but responded by (and his community too, note the use of 'they') deepening their practice.

Howver, Ole has chosen to vent and say unpleasant things about Islam and Muslims.

This resembles how a schoolyard bully opportunistically selects only those fights he can win and avoids taking on anyone who is his equal or superior.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: July 20, 2011 11:11PM

Nydahl has also put a logo on his particular group: 'Diamond Way' and has set it up as an independent business entity under his own control.

He has shown some astute business sense in securing his own lucrative fiefdom before disagreeing with any of the decisions made by those higher in the hierarchy. He knows that they are not keen to lose the source of income, high profile, outreach into new territories and popularity that his organisation can uniquely provide.

Nydahl has learnt to play the power game and so is tolerated, regardless of the misgivings of some others over what he is teaching his students.
Realpolitik.


No, I have nothing in common with Nydahl at all. I find him and his antics loathsome.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 11:14PM by Stoic.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: July 21, 2011 12:19AM

It is unsual for us in the west these days to lose the separation between religion and politics.

The Dalai Lama straddles this divide, but is very mindful in his comments - he seems centred.

Ole Nydahl on the other hand tells us that he has a politcal aspect and a spiritual one (and a personal, sexual one) which are entirely separate. He seems divided, and the radically different and contradictory messages that come from these different facets would seem irreconcilable.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: jah ()
Date: July 23, 2011 01:42AM

Suenam, I think you hit the nail on the head, as the saying goes. Ole is mixing up the levels. The results of that can be emotionally very damaging, in my opinion. And the objectives of the organisation - buddha dharma - are not properly met. Perhaps Ole is simply not mature enough to understand the ramifications of this.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 23, 2011 05:43AM

The Healing Power of the Precepts

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The standards set by the precepts are simple — no intentional killing, stealing, having illicit sex, lying, or taking intoxicants.

It's entirely possible to live in line with these standards. Not always easy or convenient, but always possible. I have seen efforts to translate the precepts into standards that sound more lofty or noble — taking the second precept, for example, to mean no abuse of the planet's resources — but even the people who reformulate the precepts in this way admit that it is impossible to live up to them.

Anyone who has dealt with psychologically damaged people knows that very often the damage comes from having been presented with impossible standards to live by.

If you can give people standards that take a little effort and mindfulness, but are possible to meet, their self-esteem soars dramatically as they discover that they are actually capable of meeting those standards. They can then face more demanding tasks with confidence
[/quote]

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Worthy of respect: When you adopt a set of standards, it is important to know whose standards they are and to see where those standards come from, for in effect you are joining their group, looking for their approval, and accepting their criteria for right and wrong. In this case, you couldn't ask for a better group to join: the Buddha and his noble disciples. The five precepts are called "standards appealing to the noble ones." From what the texts tell us of the noble ones, they are not people who accept standards simply on the basis of popularity. They have put their lives on the line to see what leads to true happiness, and have seen for themselves, for example, that all lying is pathological, and that any sex outside of a stable, committed relationship is unsafe at any speed. Other people may not respect you for living by the five precepts, but noble ones do, and their respect is worth more than that of anyone else in the world.

Now, many people find it cold comfort to join such an abstract group, especially when they have not yet met any noble ones in person.

It's hard to be good-hearted and generous when the society immediately around you openly laughs at those qualities and values such things as sexual prowess or predatory business skills instead.

This is where Buddhist communities can come in.

It would be very useful if Buddhist groups would openly part ways with the prevailing amoral tenor of our culture and let it be known in a kindly way that they value goodheartedness and restraint among their members. In doing so, they would provide a healthy environment for the full-scale adoption of the Buddha's course of therapy: the practice of concentration and discernment in a life of virtuous action.

Where we have such environments, we find that meditation needs no myth or make-believe to support it, because it is based on the reality of a well-lived life. You can look at the standards by which you live, and then breathe in and out comfortably — not as a flower or a mountain, but as a full-fledged, responsible human being. For that's what you are.


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The Buddha's path consisted not only of mindfulness, concentration, and insight practices, but also of virtue, beginning with the five precepts. In fact, the precepts constitute the first step in the path. There is a tendency in the West to dismiss the five precepts as Sunday-school rules bound to old cultural norms that no longer apply to our modern society, but this misses the role that the Buddha intended for them: They are part of a course of therapy for wounded minds. In particular, they are aimed at curing two ailments that underlie low self-esteem: regret and denial.

When our actions don't measure up to certain standards of behavior, we either (1) regret the actions or (2) engage in one of two kinds of denial, either (a) denying that our actions did in fact happen or (b) denying that the standards of measurement are really valid. These reactions are like wounds in the mind. Regret is an open wound, tender to the touch, while denial is like hardened, twisted scar tissue around a tender spot. When the mind is wounded in these ways, it can't settle down comfortably in the present, for it finds itself resting on raw, exposed flesh or calcified knots. Even when it's forced to stay in the present, it's there only in a tensed, contorted and partial way, and so the insights it gains tend to be contorted and partial as well. Only if the mind is free of wounds and scars can it be expected to settle down comfortably and freely in the present, and to give rise to undistorted discernment.

This is where the five precepts come in: They are designed to heal these wounds and scars. Healthy self-esteem comes from living up to a set of standards that are practical, clear-cut, humane, and worthy of respect; the five precepts are formulated in such a way that they provide just such a set of standards.

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After several years of teaching and practicing meditation as therapy, however, many of us have found that meditation on its own is not enough. In my own experience, I have found that Western meditators tend to be afflicted more with a certain grimness and lack of self-esteem than any Asians I have ever taught. Their psyches are so wounded by modern civilization that they lack the resilience and persistence needed before concentration and insight practices can be genuinely therapeutic. Other teachers have noted this problem as well and, as a result, many of them have decided that the Buddhist path is insufficient for our particular needs. To make up for this insufficiency they have experimented with ways of supplementing meditation practice, combining it with such things as myth, poetry, psychotherapy, social activism, sweat lodges, mourning rituals, and even drumming.

The problem, though, may not be that there is anything lacking in the Buddhist path, but that we simply haven't been following the Buddha's full course of therapy.


For full text, go here:

[www.accesstoinsight.org]

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: oamoam ()
Date: July 25, 2011 07:04AM

call me mischievous, but I´m really waiting for ole´s comments on oslo...

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: SebaT ()
Date: July 25, 2011 09:47PM

I'd agree with the recent sentiments that many, but certainly not all, DW members confuse Ole as a teacher with Ole as an Idol, and Ole himself does little to counterbalance this tendency. Perhaps he does not know how, or perhaps he is not aware of how great the problem, since he seems to be relatively shielded from the day to day aspects of DW. I would tend to look up the lineage to Shamarpa and Karmapa Thaye Dorje for authority if one chooses that divide in the Karma Kagyu lineage, or else Tai Situpa and Karmapa Urgyen Trinley if one chooses that branch.

Eventually the teachings and depth of one or the other will be exhausted and then we will know which is the 'true Karmapa' but until then we should not be distracted by petty quarrels and should just look for a source of authentic teachings. This brings me to my point here: what one needs to seek out are authentic teachings that they can learn from, wherever they may find them. Some may find them in DW, others not. What one needs is a deep intuitive taste of what authentic teachings feel like as compared to shallow superficial stuff. There is no universal path to this, so each needs to learn through experience until they can tell a cult apart from a possibly flawed but ultimately genuine organisation. Personally I have suspicions, but do now know which side of this divide DW is on.

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