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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 17, 2011 10:15PM

"I was asked by a couple that taught NPL to take some books on the subject to the
swamis."

One of the posts from the Google listserve did not copy the material in its entirety.

Here it is.

[groups.google.com]?...

Quote

Discussion subject changed to "Therapists and NLP" by Annielori9

Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult.siddha-yoga
From: annielo...@aol.com (Annielori9) Date: 1998/06/27
Subject: Re: Therapists and NLP

>Do you know anything about NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming)?

Interesting you should bring this up. When I went to GSP many years ago*,

*(Readers must remain aware that the author is now writing on Google listserve in 1998. GSP stands for Ganeshpuri, the Indian ashram used first by Muktananda and later by Gurumayi, his successor-Corboy)

I was asked by a couple that taught NPL to take some books on the subject to the
swamis. I glanced through the books and they seemed quite simplistic. I don't
think they were by the German author you mentioned.

All of which means that Siddha Yoga has no doubt incorporated some of the
techniques from NPL into courses etc.
AL


and Dan Shaw reports that courses on neurolinguistic programming NLP were taught at the SYDA ashram in South Fallsberg New York.

Quote

Shawdan View profile More options Jun 27 1998, 12:00 am

Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult.siddha-yogaFrom: shaw...@aol.com (Shawdan)
Date: 1998/06/27
Subject: Re: Therapists and NLP
In article <1998062717231200.NAA20...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,

annielo...@aol.com (Annielori9) writes:
>All of which means that Siddha Yoga has no doubt incorporated some of the
>techniques from NPL into courses etc.

Some big NLP teachers are SY devotees. Anthony Robbins of informercial fame is
a big NLP guy. Werner Erhard used a lot of NLP stuff. I took a course in it
at the So. Falls. ashram
. Not impressed - I thought it was basically one more
presentation of manipulative techniques for acting and looking like you have
total control over everyone and everything - a kind of pretentiously
psychological sales technique to get other people to buy what you're selling.
Not for me.
***************
Shaw...@aol.com (Daniel Shaw

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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 17, 2011 10:37PM

This article was printed in Yoga Journal in 1985
Three pages.

A classic on how the 'trust your experience' was the mantra, even back then.

None of the three--the two women apologists/spin doctors and the interviewer--were aware that experiences can be manipulated, even manufactured through social engineering.

Diddle neurons in the right manner and you can give someone an orgasm or a headrush of bliss.

And...neither the author of this article nor the two women (both of whom were therapist) were likely to have known that Muktananda had taken lessons from Werner Erhard on how to utilize EST technology in his supposedly ancient Hindu practices---which made him corrupt from the very start.

[books.google.com]

[books.google.com]

[books.google.com]

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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 14, 2012 01:33AM

Found this paper, all of which is well worth reading.

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

Over the years, many former members of Siddha and SYDA yoga have written with deep emotion how they came to recognize how abusive the organization was, that they knew in looking back that they had made the right decision to leave.

But despite this conscious recognition, many spoke of the bliss they had felt not once, but many times, of the shakti, and how empty life often felt without it.

Or they second guessed themselves wondering if the cult had had access to something devine due to the ecstacies they had felt repeatedly during its rituals.

Thier torment was only enhanced by some who arrived and claimed that the ecstacies were generated by their own craving minds.

This remark is as cruel as it is inaccurate. The paper whose URL is given above will describe the trance induction processes used.

It has been stated by more than one source that Muktananda learned techniques from Werner Erhard and those who trusted that Muktananda was using ancient Hindu methods were not told up front he was also using methods learned from a master of modern American group ecstacy-tech.

Now here one excert from the paper that may encompass how many alumni from Siddha Yoga and SYDA yoga feel--and other groups, too.

Quote

Milton A Erickson referred to the "conscious-unconscious double bind" as essential to many hypnotic interventions.

In this situation "conscious intentionality and one's usual mental sets are placed in a bind that tends to depotentiate their activity; unconscious potentials now have an opportunity to intrude" (Erickson, Rossi, & Rossi, 1976, p. 61).

Erickson further views this liberation as "an opportunity for growth" (p. 61) on a level that is "outside the person's usual range of self-direction and control" (p. 61).

Thus it forms a "mild quandary" that "can lead one to experience those altered states we characterize as trance so that previously unrealized potentials may become manifest" (p. 61).

In contrast, this phase of cult induction creates an inherent power imbalance, for recruits do not possess the means to access the necessary consciousness to comprehend and experience the depth of the cult.

In response to the untenable discomfort of such existential uncertainty, and having been primed that the cult offers an inward alternative, recruits can easily enter a trance state.

And the very fact of entering into trance becomes confirming of the cult's veracity and authority because such an experience had been predicted

(Anyone approaching SY will have heard from others about the "shakti experiences" given by the guru)

When the hypnotic experiences and releasing of unconscious potential begin to manifest, they come as confirmations and property of the cult.

Thus the evocation of these hypnotic potentials creates a dependency, which can lead recruits to ascribe the cult authority over their hypnotic potential, in other words, to those portions of awareness that are outside of individual conscious voluntary control.

We have a stunning capacity for ecstacy within us. Tiny children have expecially close access to this, and trance can return us right to the psychological terrain of early childhood. The trappings of Hindu ritual combined with the very powerful methods Werner Erhard taught to Muktananda would unleash quite a charge.

Doing this in a group setting would magnify it even further.

So to leave SY would be to leave all that bliss as property of the cult. That may account for the ache and yearning still felt years later, even by persons who know full well they did the right thing when they left SY.

The article sums this up:

Quote

"...it becomes essential that practitioners of therapeutic hypnosis also become educators, in order that altered states of awareness and trance phenomena be demystified, and less available for exploitation.

As practitioners, we must ensure that every induction is a journey from which an individual has the opportunity to return. "

FUll text of this paper can be read here

[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: zombiefied ()
Date: August 14, 2012 07:31AM

We have a stunning capacity for ecstacy within us. Tiny children have expecially close access to this, and trance can return us right to the psychological terrain of early childhood. The trappings of Hindu ritual combined with the very powerful methods Werner Erhard taught to Muktananda would unleash quite a charge.

Doing this in a group setting would magnify it even further.

So to leave SY would be to leave all that bliss as property of the cult. That may account for the ache and yearning still felt years later, even by persons who know full well they did the right thing when they left SY.


Corboy....I really havnt thought to look so deeply into the psychology of trance.This is very interesting to me.I have had this experience exactly in chris butlers group.
When we would chant for hours i felt very childlike and also saw others that way,feeling uninhibated.When i mentioned it to a disciple I was told that its due to purification by chanting...Of coarse the bliss and ecxtaticness of the dancing was always fueled more so in the group.
I also know for a fact I did the right thing to leave,but sometimes still miss the gatherings...
In hindsight it actually reminds me of when I was younger and went to music concerts.The band builds the crowd,goes faster,then slows down and continues the pattern again.I felt that same way after going to a show.A uphoria.
The constant stimuli of the senses and the energy of others people would make me feel drunk....Yep its a trance
Thanks for the info...

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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: VitaminC ()
Date: August 14, 2012 04:27PM

Quote
zombiefied
Corboy....I really havnt thought to look so deeply into the psychology of trance.This is very interesting to me.I have had this experience exactly in chris butlers group.
When we would chant for hours i felt very childlike and also saw others that way,feeling uninhibated.When i mentioned it to a disciple I was told that its due to purification by chanting...Of coarse the bliss and ecxtaticness of the dancing was always fueled more so in the group.
I also know for a fact I did the right thing to leave,but sometimes still miss the gatherings...
In hindsight it actually reminds me of when I was younger and went to music concerts.The band builds the crowd,goes faster,then slows down and continues the pattern again.I felt that same way after going to a show.A uphoria.
The constant stimuli of the senses and the energy of others people would make me feel drunk....Yep its a trance
Thanks for the info...

I felt the same way as well for many years. It took me a long time to come to terms with my decision to leave and that my leaving as the right thing to do. Even now, there are times where I catch myself hearing some of the songs in my head. Theres still a very small remnant of that brainwashing left in there, it seems. And the more I read here, the more I realize that Im not alone in experiencing these effects of the Butler group's LGAT tech on me, and others.

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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 14, 2012 10:11PM

Key thing is this, quoted from the article:

Quote

...it becomes essential that practitioners of therapeutic hypnosis also become educators, in order that altered states of awareness and trance phenomena be demystified, and less available for exploitation.

As practitioners, we must ensure that every induction is a journey from which an individual has the opportunity to return.


Very many cultures have had ecstatic rituals. The Greeks had the Bacchic festival, in Rome, they had the Saturnalia, where social roles were reversed. We have a modest survival in our trick or treat rituals of Halloween and April Fool.

In India each year they celebrate Holi, and visitors are advised to wear old cruddy clothing, because thats when people throw paint and colored water all over.

These rituals did not take place every day or even every week.

In traditional cultures, with scanty food reserves, a group had to see that its harvests were secure. If too many of the clan tripped out at the same time and for too long,
tasks needed to ensure survival of the group would have been neglected.

After some important tragedies, safety precautions must be observed at clubs (eg after the Coconut Grove Fire) and rock concerts.

What goes wrong is getting people addicted and a power hungry group presenting itself as the custodian of a persons ecstacy and dearest, tendrest hopes.

Here is a description by Joyce Colin-Smith, one of the very early disciples of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, whose initation method had since been recognized as a being a most effective method of trance induction.

Mrs Colin-Smith described how she felt after awakening from that process

Quote

At last, I became fully aware of my surroundings again.

I opened my eyes and looked at my watch. I glanced at the tranquil faces all around me, their eyes closed, their features still and relaxed.

I got up quietly and went downstairs to the hall. Though I had eaten nothing all day, I had no hunger or thirst. A feeling of pleasure, lightness and satisfaction filled me.

It crossed my mind that I felt as I remembered to have felt during a happy love affair of long ago: contented and carefree as one rose from bed, and full of simple and innocent enjoyment of all the things of the day and of the night. I felt as though I had been made love to with great skill and tenderness, and had slept and rested and woken up again. As though I had been cleansed and renewed, like a child. As though I were completely innocent

Joyce Colin-Smith (Call No Man Master pages 83 - 85)

Earlier, when Joyce Colin Smith decided to take intiation with MMY, others who had already done so, behaved in a way, quite sincerely, that set her up.

Quote

"Yes, its wonderful!" Jim said eagerly. "You'll have a marvellous experience tomorrow". And "yes", the others echoed, they were very happy with what had happened to them.

Expectation was inculcated.

Colin-Smith followed instructions and fasted, taking no breakfast.

Quote

. Mindful of the instructions, I ate no breakfast. I took with me flowers from my own garden, fruit bought at Victoria Station, the new white handkerchief which was a symbol of purity and innocence of intent, like the white scarves given and received in greeting in Tibet. And the equivalent of what would have been a week's salary if I had still been working as a journalist in Fleet Street. This donation was required from all candidates for initiation.

(By true protocol one never gave money for diksa. Much later, when devotees became suspicious and checked the actual background of MMY's tradition, they learned he had violated it by demanding money for initiation.)

But back to trance induction.

Quote

The door of Maharishi's room was closed when I arrived for my initiation. Outside it were a number of pairs of shoes. I realised that the previous evening I had entered his presence still shod, and felt clumsy for not having observed the Indian custom at once.

(note her feeling of shame and chagrin at not following the right protocol the previous day. In a mannerly lady, this would induce a desire to make amends and compensate by being more docile. Colin-Smith obeyed instructions, had no breakfast, and was given a 12 noon appointment. MMY kept her waiting several extra hours. This is serious business. A person will grow more suggestible)

I removed my shoes, and waited.

There was a lot of laughter and talk inside the room. From time to time the door opened and smiling people came out. Others took off their shoes on arrival and went in ahead of me. I was not called. The hours passed. It was long after the time set for my initiation. I grew hungry and longed for coffee, but dared not go away in case I missed my appointment.

(Corboy, 'To long for coffee' is an understatement. Go too long without your customary coffee and you are going to have a nasty headache. That, along with low blood sugar due to fasting will put a person off balance. Note how Colin-Smith longed to get some food and coffee, but dared not go away for fear of missing her inititation. She was, withotu realizing it, demonstrating she was exactly the malleable material a cult guru would want. And her prior years in two groups run by charismatic authority figures--Ouspensky, then Bennett primed her for yet more docility to Maharishi)

Quote

Some time in the afternoon Maharishi emerged and beckoned me to follow him

Quote

Before starting for home, I spoke briefly to Johnson Bates, who told me that Maharishi would want to check my experiences the following day. "He has gone out now. He has forgotten all about you. Come in the morning."

Sadly, Joyce Colin-Smith was in no condition to recognize that this statement was important.

"He has forgotten all about you."

Through MMY's long career, people were expendable, to be picked up by him, used for as long as they were usable, and then abruptly discarded when persons more amusing and useful came along.

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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 14, 2012 11:43PM

What is perhaps difficult for people to face is that emotions that feel so profound, so unique, so intimate, have been produced by an impersonal, standardized 'tech'.

And that what was so personal and tender for them was something that was merely a standard response from the perspective of the operator who violated their trust by concealing manipulation behind the language that felt loving but was merely a simulacrum of love.

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Leaving Siddha Yoga website
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 12, 2015 02:36AM

Leaving Siddha Yoga website is still available, with new information.


[www.leavingsiddhayoga.net]

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Re: So-Called Ancient Hindu spirituality concealing American LGAT 'tech'
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: February 04, 2019 10:57AM

Archived material old news articles about Muktananda and Sally Kempton.

The Fall of the 1970’s Yoga Gurus

[virtualsatsang.wordpress.com]

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