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Red Raider Says:
September 23rd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
I am glad we have more forums like this today and felt compelled to share my experience and perspective on Isha..
I’ve been associated with Isha indirectly for the past 12 years - basically through my in laws.
They had some serious health issues and were trying out many things including, ayurveda, homeopathy etc; so joined the initiaition program and attended the subsequent one week in-house program in 1996 (humble beginnings of Isha). Now there is no going back, couple of em are instructors and volunteer full time.
I’ve come across many scenarios in the past decade to prove that my perspective is not based on me being headstrong, but would like to showcase just one here.
**Originally (around 1997) when they tried to sell this program to me, I was told that Jaggi Vasudev is an unassuming fellow and has modern thoughts etc that its perfect for someone wired like me (very analytical) as he explains spiritual stuff using scientific examples/theories. I was also told that he claims that he is no god, just a guru/teacher who can help u see the truth.**
Check the following answer given by Jaggi in their website
Question: Sadhguru, what is the difference, if any, between you and the Dhyanalinga?
here’s the link for the full answer - [www.dhyanalinga.org]
but I would like to focus on this one paragraphQuote
“Now, if you think logically, it seems impossible that there is no difference between the Dhyanalinga and me. Even if you have experienced the Dhyanalinga in some way for a moment, it still sounds absolutely egoistic for me to say this; but really, there’s no difference. If you don’t like it, I can’t help it. Slowly you will see, as the days pass, I won’t be interested in keeping up any façade for anybody’s sake. We have done enough of that in order to bring about the necessary goodwill and understanding into people so that they could become receptive enough. We don’t have to continue doing that for a lifetime. Those who are too logical and whose ability to live life is very much on the surface may fall off. I don’t want them to fall off, but they may, because I am too blunt. It’s all right. This is how it is. ”
I rest my case. It is obvious that
It truly is an amazing strategy and no matter what percentage of their revenue they use for charity work, its still is a questionable entity - IMHO illegal.
I’ve seen my share of religious programs designed to brainwash and convert people as I studied in a christian convent for 10 years. A number of my friends converted to christianity. Nothing against christianity, but there are some (not all) christian institutions that focus on converting people and they have perfected the technique. I think it prepared me to question and not to take any such programs at face value. To me, Isha is nothing more than one more dishonest insititution making use of human nature to enslave them.
So again, I am not bashing Zen, Hinduism, Satori, Atman, Wicca, or anything else. To them, that is just the "CONTENT". Focussing on CONTENT seems to be the trap most people fall into.
The PROCESS is the influence structure, and that is where to look.
And there are very very smart people who have studied that knowledge for a living for decades, and they get hired as consultants by some Gurus in secret for large amounts of money.
And now they can take that Tech, and fuse it with a specific Belief System, to make it invisible.
Add to that the tricks to make people flip into Euphoria...any many others...
Its social influence engineering. Persuasion Engineering, some are now calling it.
The word 'science' is ill defined, and (as Mitchell implied) there is a difference between the general term 'science' and the term 'modern science'.
Originally Posted by marcusclayman
"Its true aim in scientific terms is to attain mental peace and that one state of consciousness where your mind is free from any confusions, disturbances or chaos. "
These are scientific terms? o_0
(Corboy, how would one define mental peace? Self report? A particular EEG pattern?.)
Would mental peace reported by yogis be as easily attained by mere deep breathing exercises using a lung exerciser device and with no yoga theory attached to it?)mitchellmckain replied
"When one is contrasting science with religion, most certainly NOT. It is implicit in that context that what we mean by science is "modern science" and the terminology of that statement in that context is clearly religious rather than scientific."
March 26th, 2010, 02:20 PM
We could end up discussing semantics here. The word 'science' is ill defined, and (as Mitchell implied) there is a difference between the general term 'science' and the term 'modern science'.
I dislike ill defined words, and I would prefer we stuck with the concept of 'modern science', meaning the process of studying the universe using the modern scientific method, plus the knowledge so gained.
If we use the older term 'science' it can mean any damn thing. Even astrologers use that term to refer to their own brand of nonsense.
course yoga is not science. Neither is religion, astrology or tarot cards.
Science is a process of discovery, and while I cannot easily define science, I can list some of the essential components, without which something is not science.
Science requires a search for explanations, in which trial explanations are presented (hypotheses), which are then tested.
The testing of a hypothesis requires a novel prediction to be made based on that hypothesis, and which can be tested by novel experiment or observation, carried out objectively in the real world (as opposed to being in someone's mind, or via religious revelation, or done on paper).
The testing is done, with an attempt to falsify the hypothesis.
Only if said hypothesis fails to be falsified, can the hypothesis be said to be a strong possible model of reality.
Any search for explanations that does not follow this process is not science.
Yoga does not come up with hypotheses, to be tested. Instead, people believe the assertions of yogis without strong evidence. This makes it closer to religion than science.
Skeptic also wrote:
March 25th, 2010, 09:56 PM
While yoga is not a science, it can be studied by science, and has been. There are clear psychological and emotional benefits to doing yoga, along with physical benefits from yogic exercise.
The psychological and emotional benefits are akin to those you obtain from relaxation. The physical benefits can also be obtained from other forms of exercise. I make no judgement about which you choose. Personally, I walk frequently through quiet hills and along a serene beach. From these walks I gain the same physical and emotional benefits. But that is my choice. What you do is yours.