This entire article and its accompanying comments is worth reading as a comparision to what has been discussed on this thread.

The Guru is Coming !

[hinessight.blogs.com]

How appropriate. He has been invited to write for the Huffington Post

Sadhguru "Profound Mystic, Yogi, Visionary Humanitarian and Global Leader"
Spirituality: A Homecoming

And we can look forward to more!

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Sadhguru will post a weekly column every Monday covering such topics as health and wellbeing, cultivating meaningful relationships, living joyfully, enhancing human consciousness and how to make this planet a better place to live.

Email questions to: MysticEyeHP@ishafoundation.org

--

Join the Facebook Page: www.facebook.com/ishafoundation
Receive updates on Twitter: www.twitter.com/ishafoundation
See videos of Sadhguru: www.youtube.com/ishafoundation
Visit Isha Foundation: www.ishafoundation.org

And don't forget to buy his book!

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View Amazon Bestseller Midnights with the Mystic below

Most notably,

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Comments are closed for this entry

Arianna luvs her some cult gurus...

"...the cult that it truly is, is showing its true colors now that they have a sizeable following.

"In the early days the message was watered down to make it easier to spread and recruit more people."

An article on Jaggi on a blog written by an Indian entitled 'The Expert Dabbler"

« One more listless weekendAyan - seven questions »Isha yoga - my perspective
‘Join a yoga program’ was in my To-Do list along with ‘study well’ for a very long time. Needless to say, both never really happened. The last week, a STRONG reco from my friend made me enroll for the Isha yoga class happening nearby. I thought I should chronicle my thoughts as much for my own benefit as others later on.

Isha Yoga and Jaggi Vasudev seem to have really hit prime time. At least a good 20% of my circle (comprising friends and safe-distance relatives) seem to have undergone the basic course. Vikatan, Vijay TV, Youtube, and a growing array of celebrity endorsements right from Anuradha Ramanan to Ravi Venkatesan of Microsoft India have contributed in no small measure to Jaggi’s popularity.

In my experience, I do find the Yoga postures and breathing exercises very beneficial so far. I respect and appreciate the postures and breathing exercise and will have my gratitude to Jaggi Vasudev and his amazing volunteers for bringing it near me.

However, there are a few things deserve attention.
The economics angle of this program is mind boggling. They charge Rs.900 per person for the 7 day course. They handle a combined strength of 100 folks – morning+evening for the week’s class. The trainer who taught this program told me there are about 50-100 classes per month in Tamil Nadu alone. Isha does not pay anything for the volunteers. All the food and boarding expenses of the trainers are borne by the volunteers themselves. They charge about $250 USD in US for the same class (3-4 days duration). Anyone who does basic math will know that’s a lot of revenue and we get a receipt for donation, and not fees. Is that a way to avoid the tax man? So what happens with all this donation money? Enter programs like rural rejuvenation, Isha Vidya, etc.

I do not see the necessity for trusts like Isha Foundation get into activities like education, free medical programmes, tree plantations etc. Why can’t they just stick to what they do best? All these peripheral activities just makes the whole thing a big enterprise with a global brand. This is not their core competency. I am too cynical to believe in all this fancy social service themes of religious trusts. For now, thanks but no thanks.

One other USP of Jaggi Vasudev seems to be his way to address one’s logical, rational mind in his speeches. But as you get deeper into the course, he asks us to suspend our critical, rational thought process so that we can experience unlimited bliss in a totally different plane. Thanks but no thanks again. I think life has been undeservingly kind to me and I am very happy with my life. And this much maligned rational, cause and effect thinking is what has kept me live and kicking for the past 30 odd years.

The trainer resorts to statements like ‘It is our privilege to live in the times of Gurus like Sathguru’. Outsiders like me should say that I suppose. Self-proclaiming as Sathguru is like my neighborhood sweetshop calling himself ‘Original Nellai Lala’ sweets. There is also this in-class marketing of Jaggi’s books, Rudraksha etc. The more a guru talks or writes, the more likely he is to contradict himself is my general rule of thumb.

The reactions by hardcore Isha/Jaggi Vasudev volunteers and fans over anything even slightly negative on Jaggi and the foundation is something really worth thinking about too. It is important to have open, candid dialogues for any healthy organization to survive and evolve in the long run. It is only cults who discourage any form of criticisms and dialogue. I hope Isha is not just another cult.

Overall, I do like the basic course and would recommend it to any rational, mature individual. I respect Jaggi as a person who has designed the course.

However, it’s better for all concerned to retain their perspective and objectivity as much as possible and appreciate the course contents for what it is worth. There is an entire world going berserk at the very mention of Jaggi Vasudev and the ensuing bliss. I have nothing to add there.

‘What we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history’ is a Disraeli quote I always liked.

One comment

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Red Raider Says:

September 23rd, 2009 at 1:39 pm

I am glad we have more forums like this today and felt compelled to share my experience and perspective on Isha..

I’ve been associated with Isha indirectly for the past 12 years - basically through my in laws.

They had some serious health issues and were trying out many things including, ayurveda, homeopathy etc; so joined the initiaition program and attended the subsequent one week in-house program in 1996 (humble beginnings of Isha). Now there is no going back, couple of em are instructors and volunteer full time.

I’ve come across many scenarios in the past decade to prove that my perspective is not based on me being headstrong, but would like to showcase just one here.

**Originally (around 1997) when they tried to sell this program to me, I was told that Jaggi Vasudev is an unassuming fellow and has modern thoughts etc that its perfect for someone wired like me (very analytical) as he explains spiritual stuff using scientific examples/theories. I was also told that he claims that he is no god, just a guru/teacher who can help u see the truth.**

Check the following answer given by Jaggi in their website

Question: Sadhguru, what is the difference, if any, between you and the Dhyanalinga?
here’s the link for the full answer - [www.dhyanalinga.org]

but I would like to focus on this one paragraph

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“Now, if you think logically, it seems impossible that there is no difference between the Dhyanalinga and me. Even if you have experienced the Dhyanalinga in some way for a moment, it still sounds absolutely egoistic for me to say this; but really, there’s no difference. If you don’t like it, I can’t help it. Slowly you will see, as the days pass, I won’t be interested in keeping up any façade for anybody’s sake. We have done enough of that in order to bring about the necessary goodwill and understanding into people so that they could become receptive enough. We don’t have to continue doing that for a lifetime. Those who are too logical and whose ability to live life is very much on the surface may fall off. I don’t want them to fall off, but they may, because I am too blunt. It’s all right. This is how it is. ”

I rest my case. It is obvious that


It truly is an amazing strategy and no matter what percentage of their revenue they use for charity work, its still is a questionable entity - IMHO illegal.

I’ve seen my share of religious programs designed to brainwash and convert people as I studied in a christian convent for 10 years. A number of my friends converted to christianity. Nothing against christianity, but there are some (not all) christian institutions that focus on converting people and they have perfected the technique. I think it prepared me to question and not to take any such programs at face value. To me, Isha is nothing more than one more dishonest insititution making use of human nature to enslave them.

[expertdabbler.com]

Finally, there is an ongong discussion over here that has grown to 40 plus pages.

All this for the dude advertised in the posters "Evening With a Mystic"

"Evening With a Businessman" is more like it.

Corby And All other Posters,

I was, also a Former Isha Cult Member, a Devotee of Sadhguru and After Two Years on the outside, I realized that he is # 1 Hypocrite & Fraud. I have listed, all his lies and contradictions on my blog. Check the following Links:

[zaysen.blogspot.com]

[zaysen.blogspot.com]

[zaysen.blogspot.com]

[zaysen.blogspot.com]

Colonel Zaysen

It's me again, two years later. She's still in the group. Interestingly, she occassionally posts facebook messages with beautiful pictures of her and her friends in amazing nature-scapes. Another thing, she got married. They had a lavish wedding ceremony. Is this good? I assume this is ultimately not good. Though, I suppose it's good that she's allowed to marry. Any comments? Many of her other facebook posts seem to be advertising for Isha, unfortunately.

As an aside, I found a website defending Isha and a few other groups that have questionable reputations: [itsnotacult.com]

I wonder who sponsors this?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2012 09:42AM by pizzaslap.

If You Think You Want to Go to India for Spiritual Progress...

The Anticult wrote:

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Quote:
So again, I am not bashing Zen, Hinduism, Satori, Atman, Wicca, or anything else. To them, that is just the "CONTENT". Focussing on CONTENT seems to be the trap most people fall into.

The PROCESS is the influence structure, and that is where to look.

And there are very very smart people who have studied that knowledge for a living for decades, and they get hired as consultants by some Gurus in secret for large amounts of money.

And now they can take that Tech, and fuse it with a specific Belief System, to make it invisible.

Add to that the tricks to make people flip into Euphoria...any many others...

Its social influence engineering. Persuasion Engineering, some are now calling it.

If you think you want to go to India or even to some weekend seminar...

Study yourself very carefully.

If you are already attending yoga classes and are chatting about your aspirations with your friends via Twitter, Facebook, and other social media, you have already sacrificed most of your privacy if you have used your real name and especially if you have put your photograph anywhere, plus mentioned or dropped clues where you live.

Repeat, you have already sacrificed much of your privacy.

Next, face your social position. Namely your finances, where you went to school, your family back ground.

Because if you have money, or are from a wealthy/socially prominent family, or are married to someone with powerful media, business, political or financial connections or are a therapist or even a student therapist or physician...

You, dear reader are a high value recruit, whether you are in the First World, or go to India.

You will be courted.

A viciously cruel guru will either act nice around you, or if he or she senses you have guilt about your good fortune, will act cruel to you and have you eating out of their hands for being so 'honest' as to treat you like shit.

People can study you just by what you post online. They can research the data you have placed online and figure out your wealth, your family connections, if you are a long term investment (a medical student or a student psychotherapist, someone likely acquire clients, a good income and whose professional credentials will give legitimacy to a guru.

If you are an academic, ESPECIALLY if you are in physics, mathematics, medicine, neurology, computer science, robotics, ecology -- these are specialities that carry mystique. You may be courted and seduced by dodgy gurus who are looking for academics who will sit in on 'interfaith dialogues' and give them derivative legitimacy.

Please, all you who are academics and scientists - please be aware you will be courted. You'll be flattered like a rich divorcee.

People can research you, find out you are going to India and if you mention online which hotel you are staying at, or which tourist routes you plan to take, this information can be passed on. India is full of brilliant, intelligent people who dont have jobs and who hang around, drinking chai, watching the Westerners, hanging out in hotel lobbies and hostels.

Here is something written about the Indian connection and the guru biz.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2015 10:31PM by corboy.

Welp ... my friend is still in India. I called her on some of Sadhguru's scientific claims, and her response was:

"Yoga is a science , as in it is a technique with a predictable outcome."

I could throw a baseball at a window and it's likely to break it each time. That's not science. Anyway, he has his people
thinking in circles around circles around circles. Doesn't seem my friend is ever coming home ...

Modern science works only with hypotheses that are testable and, potentially, falsifiable.

That excludes assertions of faith.

As for predictability, there is a well known cognitive trap even the most intelligent of us can fall into.

Confirmation bias. We tend to notice events that confirm our beliefs and hopes. We tend to ignore incidents that run counter to our expectations.

Modern science has checks and balances* against confirmation bias.

*(Such as the falsifiability rule)

[www.google.com]

Just because something is a method (as is often claimed for yoga) does not mean it meets the criteria of modern scientific procedure.

To call an indoctrination process Inner Engineering is to use words that lead members and potential recruits to associate Jaggi and his method with 'modern science' when it is nothing of the sort.

Properly used, scientific methods with safeguards against confirmation bias and that work from assertions that can be proven false are quite the reverse of indoctrination.

Science makes statements that are probable, and are not absolutes.

Quite different from guru led groups.

Ecstacy and inspiration prove nothing. They are pleasure. Treat them as aesthetic experiences, as one does with music one enjoys.

If one diddles the human brain and body in particular ways, one can elicit a predicatable range of moods in many people. This is a mere set of techniques and anyone, saint or bum, can learn to apply them.

One must ask what kind of social world you want to live in. And what kind of social world a friend or recruiter lives in and is trying to get you to join.

Evidence based (with safeguards against confirmation bias and which works with hypotheses which can be proven false and discarded when more accurate information becomes available)

Or an inspiration based world where exalted moods are equated with proof and no idea can be rejected, because it cannot be tested.

One way to find out what kind of social world someone lives in is to ask 'What would it take to prove that your teacher's assertions are false?"

If the person cannot or refuses to answer that gives you a clue.



For more read here:

Falsifiability

[www.google.com]

Confirmation Bias

[www.google.com]

People like to refer to yoga as 'a science of well being' or as 'a supplement to science'.

However, we must beware of slippery rhetoric by persons who stand to gain adherants by subtly eliding the terms 'science' and 'yoga'

"While yoga is not a science, it can be studied by science, and has been."

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The word 'science' is ill defined, and (as Mitchell implied) there is a difference between the general term 'science' and the term 'modern science'.

Why take time out to look at a discussion of terms? Because, all too often emotion driven groups try to gain social respectability by claiming to be 'scientific'.

And this includes some forms of commerical yoga and the gurus who stand to gain materially by selling it.

A helpful dialogue here.

Is Yoga Scientific -- Science Forum

[www.thescienceforum.com]

It gives a range of assertions by yoga devotees, and also a useful sampling of definitions of science as commonly misunderstood.

Defining ones terms--the term science, used here is, in the context of this discussion, modern science.

One discussant wrote

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Originally Posted by marcusclayman
"Its true aim in scientific terms is to attain mental peace and that one state of consciousness where your mind is free from any confusions, disturbances or chaos. "
These are scientific terms? o_0

(Corboy, how would one define mental peace? Self report? A particular EEG pattern?.)

Would mental peace reported by yogis be as easily attained by mere deep breathing exercises using a lung exerciser device and with no yoga theory attached to it?)mitchellmckain replied

"When one is contrasting science with religion, most certainly NOT. It is implicit in that context that what we mean by science is "modern science" and the terminology of that statement in that context is clearly religious rather than scientific."

skeptic, a member of the forum, further refined the discussion of terms.

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March 26th, 2010, 02:20 PM
We could end up discussing semantics here. The word 'science' is ill defined, and (as Mitchell implied) there is a difference between the general term 'science' and the term 'modern science'.

I dislike ill defined words, and I would prefer we stuck with the concept of 'modern science', meaning the process of studying the universe using the modern scientific method, plus the knowledge so gained.

If we use the older term 'science' it can mean any damn thing. Even astrologers use that term to refer to their own brand of nonsense.

A definition of scientific method

Skeptic wrote:

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course yoga is not science. Neither is religion, astrology or tarot cards.

Science is a process of discovery, and while I cannot easily define science, I can list some of the essential components, without which something is not science.

Science requires a search for explanations, in which trial explanations are presented (hypotheses), which are then tested.

The testing of a hypothesis requires a novel prediction to be made based on that hypothesis, and which can be tested by novel experiment or observation, carried out objectively in the real world (as opposed to being in someone's mind, or via religious revelation, or done on paper).

The testing is done, with an attempt to falsify the hypothesis.

Only if said hypothesis fails to be falsified, can the hypothesis be said to be a strong possible model of reality.

Any search for explanations that does not follow this process is not science.

Yoga does not come up with hypotheses, to be tested. Instead, people believe the assertions of yogis without strong evidence. This makes it closer to religion than science.

Skeptic also wrote:

March 25th, 2010, 09:56 PM
To quasistatic

While yoga is not a science, it can be studied by science, and has been. There are clear psychological and emotional benefits to doing yoga, along with physical benefits from yogic exercise.

The psychological and emotional benefits are akin to those you obtain from relaxation. The physical benefits can also be obtained from other forms of exercise. I make no judgement about which you choose. Personally, I walk frequently through quiet hills and along a serene beach. From these walks I gain the same physical and emotional benefits. But that is my choice. What you do is yours.

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