One area that has not be explored much, is how "Zen" might be used in global organizations and even cultic power dominance structures?

For example there was a Korean Zen leader named "Seung Sahn" who founded the "Kwan Um School of Zen" which is a large global organization.
"According to James Ishmael Ford, the Kwan Um School of Zen is the largest Zen school in the Western world."

[en.wikipedia.org]
Empty Gate Zen Center [www.emptygatezen.com]


Even Wikipedia, in which its almost impossible to list criticisms of various groups along these lines, has some criticisms listed about sexual abuses, for example.

[en.wikipedia.org]
_____________________
Criticisms
The following is an excerpt from former student Mu Seong in the Charles Prebish book The Faces of Buddhism in America, page 125,

— "He is most interested in gaining a large number of students, even if they turn out to be short-term catches. This striving for numbers for numbers' sake has left a parallel impression that Seung Sahn has been remarkably unconcerned with the spiritual training of those who might come into contact with the groups within his organization.

One criticism that has been made about Seung Sahn is that he proselytized, more concerned with bringing in more students than with the quality of their spiritual development. There is a belief that he also made too many students Dharma teachers, typically granting anyone who was around for a few months the title and giving them the robe of a Buddhist monk. He additionally upset some in the Jogye Order when he began ordaining laypeople as monks and nuns.[11][8]

The first revelations of sexual relationships between Seung Sahn and students came about in 1988. According to former director of Cambridge Zen Center Sonia Alexander, Seung Sahn had carried out long-term sexual relationships with a number of his female followers. One former student claims that when confronted with the issue, Seung Sahn stated that he engaged in such behavior to find people he could trust and that he was beyond lust. These relationships caused Alexander to end her involvement with the Kwan Um School, believing in retrospect that she had been used over the years only to help build more Zen Centers for the lineage. Notwithstanding, Alexander still has reverence for Seung Sahn and feels her time spent in the school was to her benefit.[17][1]


Controversies
In 1988 members within the Kwan Um School of Zen learned that Seung Sahn had previously had sexual relations with a few of his female students.[11] According to Sandy Boucher in Turning the Wheel: American Women Creating the New Buddhism

The sexual affairs were apparently not abusive or hurtful to the women. By all accounts, they were probably strengthening and certainly gave the women access to power. (However, no one can know if other women were approached by Soen Sa Nim, said nothing, and may have been hurt or at best confused, and left silently.) No one questions that Soen Sa Nim is a strong and inspiring teacher and missionary, wholly committed to spreading the Dharma, who has helped many people by his teachings and by his creation of institutions in which they can practice Zen. In his organization he has empowered students, some of them women, by giving them the mandate to teach and lead. And he has speculated, in a positive vein, on the coming empowerment of women in religion and government. Even his critics describe him as a dynamic teacher from whom they learned a great deal. On the other hand, former students point to secrecy, hypocrisy, an organization in which the people on top have power and information that they do not share with those farther down."[12]

Here is an interesting page about this subject, obviously there are a lot of problems out there.

Guidance on Finding a Buddhist Teacher or Organization By George Draffan
[www.naturalawareness.net]



But as far as Zen Master Seung Sahn...
there are some very very strange inconsistencies here...above its stated that Seung Sahn, the Buddhist Monk leader of the entire school was having sexual relationships with a number of his female followers.

But the Statement Of Ethics for the "Kwan Um School of Zen" forbids this explicitly.
And if a person does not "apologize", that is supposed to lead to EXPULSION.

Why does that not apply to Zen Master Seung Sahn himself? Did he make a written apology and admit what he did? Or did he try to deny it, or rationalize it?

Why does it say on Wikipedia that...
"The sexual affairs were apparently not abusive or hurtful to the women. By all accounts, they were probably strengthening and certainly gave the women access to power."

Who wrote that on Wikipedia????
Are you kidding me? Below it says the exact opposite...

"The recent history of Buddhist organizations in America shows very clearly that sexual relationships between teachers and students can lead to great pain..."

Does this make any sense at all?
How can you revere a Zen Master Guru Seung Sahn, the founder of your entire organization, when he has violated the code of ethics numeorus times, (violated his vows?), appears to have concealed it and lied about it for YEARS, and not apologized by trying to RATIONALIZE the sex by saying it was not about the sex?

That is a screaming red flag of organizational cover-up.
Can someone explain how that works?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ethics for the Entire Sangha" (Kwan Um School of Zen)
...
The sangha must be free of all sexual harassment. No means no; use it mindfully and hear it clearly. Touching should be mutually agreed upon. If someone asks not to be touched, respect their wishes. ...

Those in the Sangha who hold positions in the hierarchy—senior students as well as teachers and monks—have a special obligation to be very mindful of the potential misuse of power, money, alcohol, controlled substances and sex. Using your position to fulfill your desires is not correct relationship and is an abuse of power.

Teachers’ Special Responsibilities: Teachers in our school have a special responsibility to take into account the welfare of students. A teacher must always ask her/himself how any action will affect the student in the long run. The recent history of Buddhist organizations in America shows very clearly that sexual relationships between teachers and students can lead to great pain and disharmony within the sangha.
...
The Third Precept is "I vow to abstain from misconduct done in lust." Lust can be defined as a self-centered action which is "for me" and doesn't take into account the needs of another. If a teacher's relationship with a student becomes sexualized, two steps are strongly recommended: 1. There should be a 3 to 6 month suspension of the teacher/student relationship, and 2. The teacher should choose another teacher in the sangha in order to discuss the relationship and receive guidance from her/him. In this way the relationship will be witnessed by another teacher who can hold the perspective of caring for the student, the teacher, and the entire sangha.

Grievance Procedure: ...
This action can range from a suggested apology to the other parties, apologies to the sangha at large, a repentance ritual, censure, or in the most heinous cases, expulsion. It is hoped that the aggrieving party will see his or her mistake and apologize.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2008 04:41AM by The Anticult.

Quote
The Anticult
One area that has not be explored much, is how "Zen" might be used in global organizations and even cultic power dominance structures?

For example there was a Korean Zen leader named "Seung Sahn" who founded the "Kwan Um School of Zen" which is a large global organization.

This Seung Sahn being the teacher of Stuart Resnick, aka RandomStu, who came forth in this forum as a Byron Katie defender.

Would it surprise you to learn that Stephen Mitchell, Byron Katie's husband, edited at least one book by Seung Sahn?

It's called Dropping Ashes on the Buddha: The Teaching of Zen Master Seung Sahn.

Holy crap, that is very surprising about Stephen Mitchell editing books for Seung Sahn!!
There appear to be some others too.

The Whole World is a Single Flower: 365 Kong-ans for Everyday Life with Questions and Commentary by Seung Sahn and Stephen Mitchell (Paperback - 1992)
[www.amazon.com]

So in reality, this should be in the Byron Katie threads.
That is amazing.
Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell together run their own massive companies, which are associated with the Kwan Um School of Zen, and Seung Sahn, in at least the content of these books.
Guess who is writing most of the silly Zen-like Koans in the recent Byron Katie books? Maybe Seung Sahn from the grave!! Who knows...

Well, as they say, there are no accidents in the universe...grasshoppers...seek and ye shall find...

of course...RandomStu has nothing at all to do with Byron Katie...nothing at all.
Except that his current guru wrote books with Byron Katie's current husband.
There is no connection there whatsoever. I agree totally.

One assumes clarifications about the skirt-chasing Zen Master are forth-coming.

Quote
The Anticult
of course...RandomStu has nothing at all to do with Byron Katie...nothing at all.
Except that his current guru wrote books with Byron Katie's current husband.
There is no connection there whatsoever. I agree totally.

Hee. :-)

Here we go again.

..quoted in from a letter by Seung Sahn, the message is...

The Guru can CAN DO ANYTHING HE WANTS, boozing, abusive yelling, sexing, RAGING, disrespecting...


If one didn't know any better, they might think the real benefits of being a Guru, are the drinking, screwing, yelling, money, houses, worship, screwing, drinking...

Its good to be The King...as Mel Brooks said.


______________________________________
Letter from Seung Sahn, August 4, 1977

...

The Avatamsaka Sutra says, "Drinking and sex are no-hindrance Prajna." In other words, when you can control your karma -- your desire, anger, and ignorance -- then any action is no problem; whatever action you do will teach other people.

My teacher, Zen Master Ko Bong, taught this way. At Jung Hae Sa Temple in Korea, the schedule consists of three months of sitting followed by three months of vacation. During vacation, everyone collects money or food and brings them back for the sitting period. When Zen Master Man Gong, my grand-teacher, was just beginning the temple, there was no money at all. The students would go around to the homes of lay people, recite the Heart Sutra, get rice or money, and return to the monastery. But when my teacher Ko Bong got rice, he'd sell it at the end of the day and go out drinking. Everyone else came back at the end of a vacation with sacks of rice. All Ko Bong brought back was wine. When he was full of wine he was also full of complaints: "This temple is no good! Man Gong doesn't understand anything! He's low-class!"

Once Zen Master Man Gong showed up during one of Ko Bong's tirades and screamed at him, "What do you understand?" Everybody was waiting to see what would happen. "KO BONG!!!"

"Yes?"

"Why are you always insulting me behind my back?"

Ko Bong looked completely surprised and offended. "Zen Master! I never said anything about you! I was talking about this good-for-nothing Man Gong!"

"Man Gong? What do you mean, Man Gong? I'M Man Gong! What's the difference between Man Gong and me?"

"KAAAATZ!" Ko Bong yelled, loud enough to split everyone's eardrums. That ended it.

"Go sleep it off," Man Gong said, and he left the room.

My teacher was always drunk, used abusive speech, and showed disrespectful behavior. But he always kept a clear mind. "Man Gong? What's the difference between Man Gong and me?" "KAAAATZ!" That katz is very important -- better than money or bags of rice. Ko Bong completely believed in himself.

If you believe completely in yourself, your actions will teach other people. Also you will be able to do any action to help other people. This is the Great Bodhisattva Way.
______________________________________________________



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2008 07:23AM by The Anticult.

Oh jeez. How convenient.

Yes, its rather convenient.
Seung Sahn seems to have tried to explain away his sex with his female students by saying it didn't happen, and if it did happen in those cases it wasn't LUST and was some type of Zen TEACHING tool...or to find women he could TRUST.

LOL!! that's a good one...these guys really are something else.

He was a red-blooded Zen Warrior-King, surrounded by nubile acolytes in the 70's...

Some of the women seem to have thought he was using them to set up more schools for him...now that makes more sense.
Two birds for the price of one.

The Guru system is without fail, a recipe for abuse of power. Without fail.
That's why they set it up in the first place.

You can't be the king of the world, but you can be your own local King of your little tribe.
You get your concubines too.

What's the song...??

Money for nothing, and the chicks for free.

Hate to be crass, but its better to be honest, and get rid off all the BS rationalizations.

Power, money, sex.
First you get the Power, then you get the Money, then you get the Women.
But if you are a Monk, you also get to hide behind "social respect" as well. This stinks pretty bad.

Everytime...all of this fake Godman bullshit ends in the same way.
All Too Human.

Here is an online book that discusses a number of gurus and the abuses they've indulged in:

[[url=http://www.strippingthegurus.com/]Stripping The Gurus: Sex, Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment[/url]]

The chapter on Chogyam Trungpa seems particularly germane to this thread:

[[url=http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/trungpa.asp]A Wild and Crazy Wisdom Guy (Chogyam Trungpa)[/url]]