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Do Not Let Anyone Exploit This Pandemic
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 22, 2020 11:16PM

Spirituality is not a country club whose applicants must be vouched for, endure years of servile waiting, struggle with conflicting instructions, buy the right clothes and household decor, have the right pictures on their walls, and pay big bucks to join.

Spirituality is a big tent for everyone.

Certainly not a club from which you can be banished at any time with no explanation, no due process.

If you spend hours wide awake, because you dread you have offended some high ranking person in your lodge, this is not spirituality, it is life in a dictatorship.

If your teacher/s use the covid-19 virus epidemic to increase your fear and guilt, they are banana republic dictators, fear mongers, not Sufis.

Beware and get away from any teacher, leader or group that does any of the following or more:

* Who suggest this epidemic was caused by your sins, caused by your having doubts or misgivings about the leader, the group, the teachings.

* Burden you and other members with constant and unpredictable assignments to shop for, garden for, high status members of the group who are sheltering in place -- and you're scared shitless that what you do will be unsatisfactory and you'll get yelled at - and you cannot be sure whether this will happen. This is not spirituality, it re-enacts life with an abusive parent or spouse.

* The leaders exploit the pandemic and shelter in place to further entrench fear by using teachings that we are in the end times, the Kali Yuga, that the rest of the world is damned and that you in the group of of the Elite, and will shed your samskaras (cosmic cooties) if you pray harder and yet more obedient to the leader, the teachings, the group. This is exploitation.

* Beware if they ask for increased donations and increased prayer claiming it will protect the elderly leaders who have the power to walk you through the Kali Yuga. That's spiritual slavery that will continue long after this epidemic is over.

* Exploits Shelter in Place by demanding that you view yet more videos, yet more conference calls in ways that increase your anxiety

* Constant service requests to donate labor for upkeep of high maintenance expensive buildings, gardens, pools, lawns and you're unable to look after your family and unsure you've done the right thing.

* Distrust any leader or group using social media and conference calls to monitor you yet more intensively than before.

* Suspect any leader or group whose social media, conference calls, directions for increased meditation, visualization, prayer, take you away from your family when your family need you more.

* When this interferes with your taking breaks to look after yourself and do things you enjoy.

Unless you had to recover from a severe drug or alcohol addiction, you should still all or most of the friends you had before you got involved with this lodge. If you have lost all or most of your previous friendships, and have ended up with all of your friendships being in this lodge, please ask yourself what has happened.

Have any of the people you most loved when you were admitted to this lodge still your friends? Have they disappeared? Can you ask why, or is this a forbidden topic?

What if you're scapegoated and banished?

Having outside friends and family will eliminate the fear factor.

Problem is, during the years when you worked hard to prove your loyalty, you may have drifted away from your outside family and friends.

They may have drifted away from you because they were worried about you and just did not know what to say or do.

Call them up. God works through noncoercive human relationships.

Edited 13 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2020 07:05AM by corboy.

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Beware Teachers Masters Pirs Exploiting Pandemic II
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 24, 2020 12:48AM

Beware of any teacher or group doing the following:

Telling you not to listen to the news except what they tell you.

Or, if you listen to the news, require that you also check in to hear the group leadership's commentary on the news.

Pushing you to install tech devices in your home and computer that enable the leader and group to keep you more closely tied to them because they can monitor whether you are participating in the group's online events or are diligently logging in to their online materials.

Suppose you are a technophobe, happily ignorant of Zoom. Once you are importuned to learn Zoom, your absence from the group's meetings will be noticed and you know this will become mark against you.

Yet another thing to beware of:

In this age of social media, group leadership can use a much loved or high prestige member as an "influencer". to instigate something that is seemingly organic, from from that person's initiative, but is actually a strategy fostered by the leader/s to generate an setting for enhanced indoctrination.

And find out which group members participate and which are less obedient and do not participate.

This can be done in sneaky ways.

A beloved or much feared group member appear on Zoom or Skype and announce he or she has decided "on my own initiative", to engage spiritual exercises that fall in the category of high demand behavior. Deeds that many of us would not do if left to our own devices.

If other members of the group announce they want to "join in" and give their names, this can generate social pressure for you to join in as well, so you can feel togetherness, so you do not miss out on the "progress" the others make, and so you are not exposed as a less than enthusiastic group member because you have *not* joined in.

* An online confession of personal faults

* A personal pledge to begin reading books or online material sanctioned by the group that zones you out. If enough people ask to join and this becomes a "spontaneous book club" you fear you'll be outed as a lazy member unless you join as well - and get yet more marinated in the group's indoctrinational material.

* Pledge to make a special contribution to the group or leader despite personal financial hardships.

* A high demand fast

* A high demand restricted diet

* Sleeping hours less than before to keep vigil

* That he or she is going to do a lengthy series of chants, guided meditations each morning and report what happens.

* Pushing hinting coaxing using social influence to get you to buy more of their books or products. to purchase yet another set of books, participate in an upcoming fast, cleanse, meditation marathon promising togetherness and enhanced spiritual development, greater unwindings greater shedding of pesky samskaras/cosmic cooties/bad karma.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2020 12:49AM by corboy.

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Character Checklist Masters Teachers Sheikhs Babas Pirs
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 08, 2020 11:03PM

Character Checklist Sheikhs Babas Pirs Murshids - Living and Dead

This was posted by "voxveritasvitadas" as part of a discussion for a Hinduistic group in Hawaii.

Still, it is a useful list.

If a leader's behavior corresponds to just one or two items on this just, please do not ignore it

Note: If a venerated deceased leader/s behaved in any of these ways, pay attention.

If a series of venerated dead leaders behaved in these ways, pay attention.



If you know of a cult leader who has many of these traits there is a high probability that they are hurting those around them emotionally, psychologically, physically, spiritually, or financially. And of course this does not take into account the hurt that their loved ones will also experience.

Here are the typical traits of the pathological cult leader (from Dangerous Personalities) that you should watch for:

He has a grandiose idea of who he is and what he can achieve.

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, or brilliance.

Demands blind, unquestioned obedience.

Requires excessive admiration from followers and outsiders.

Has a sense of entitlement—expecting to be treated as special at all times.

Is exploitative of others by asking for their money or that of relatives, putting others at financial risk.

Is arrogant and haughty in his behavior or attitude.

Has an exaggerated sense of power (entitlement) that allows him to bend rules and break laws.

Takes sexual advantage of members of his sect or cult. [Or forbids sex]

Sex is a requirement [or outlawd] with adults and sub adults as part of a ritual or rite.

Is hypersensitive to how he is seen or perceived by others.

Publicly devalues others as being inferior, incapable, or not worthy.

Makes members confess their sins or faults, publicly subjecting them to ridicule or humiliation while revealing exploitable weaknesses of the penitent.

Has ignored the needs of others, including: biological, physical, emotional, and financial needs.

Is frequently boastful of accomplishments.

Needs to be the center of attention and does things to distract others to ensure that he or she is being noticed, e.g., by arriving late, using exotic clothing, overdramatic speech, or by making theatrical entrances.

Has insisted on always having the best of anything (house, car, jewelry, clothes) even when others are relegated to lesser facilities, amenities, or clothing.

Doesn’t seem to listen well to needs of others; communication is usually one-way, in the form of dictates.

Haughtiness, grandiosity, and the need to be controlling is part of his personality.

Behaves as though people are objects to be used, manipulated or exploited for personal gain.

When criticized he tends to lash out not just with anger but with rage.

Anyone who criticizes or questions him is called an “enemy.” [karmis]

Refers to non-members or non-believers as “the enemy.”[karmis]

Acts imperious at times, not wishing to know what others think or desire.

Believes himself to be omnipotent.

Has “magical” answers or solutions to problems.

Is superficially charming.

Habitually puts down others as inferior; only he is superior.

Has a certain coldness or aloofness about him that makes others worry about who this person really is and or whether they really know him.

Is deeply offended when there are perceived signs of boredom, being ignored or of being slighted.

Treats others with contempt and arrogance.

Is constantly assessing people to determine those who are a threat or those who revere him.

The word “I” dominates his conversations. He is oblivious to how often he references himself.

Hates to be embarrassed or fail publicly; when he does he acts out with rage.

Doesn’t seem to feel guilty for anything he has done wrong nor does he apologize for his actions.

Believes he possesses the answers and solutions to world problems.

Believes himself to be a deity or a chosen representative of a deity.

"Rigid," "unbending," or "insensitive" describes how this person thinks.

Tries to control others in what they do, read, view, or think.

Has isolated members of his sect from contact with family or the outside world.

Monitors and/or restricts contact with family or outsiders.

Works the least but demands the most.

Has stated that he is “destined for greatness” or that he will be “martyred.”

Seems to be highly dependent on tribute and adoration and will often fish for compliments.

Uses enforcers or sycophants to ensure compliance from members or believers.

Sees self as “unstoppable” and perhaps has even said so.

Conceals background or family, which would disclose how plain or ordinary he is.

Doesn’t think there is anything wrong with himself and in fact sees himself as perfection or “blessed.”

Has taken away followers' freedom to leave, to travel, to pursue life and liberty.

Has isolated the group physically (moved to a remote area) so as to not be observed.

source: [

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2020 11:15PM by corboy.

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Re: Westernized Sufi and Theosophical Groups
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 08, 2020 11:06PM

Another Toxic Scenario

The teacher/Master may go into seclusion during this Covid Virus pandemic, creating a leadership vacuum.

(In happier times, the leader may vanish for a vacation or perhaps a bit of plastic surgery.)

Before leaving, leader gives ambiguous or confusing guidelines.

Disciples are told to show initiative and maturity.

When the leader returns, those who did demonstrate initiative and maturity are punished, perhaps banished permanently or temporarily. Joy at the leader's return is nicely combined with fear of arbitrary punishment.

This is the recipe for what Alexandra Stein terms "insecure attachment" - a paralyzing combination of love and terror, which keeps the victim frozen, unable to analyze the situation, unable to fight back or flee.

Terror and Love an article by Alexandra Stein



They no longer have anyone to turn to for support other than the group it-self, which is in fact the source of the fear and stress.

This double-bind is known as a situation of “fright without solution” and is also seen in control-ling domestic violence, in hostage situations, and some forms of child abuse.When leaders or other dominant persons employ a strategy of combining isolation, terror, and“love,” persons subjected to this may experience this “fright without solution,” with consequent impairments in cognitive and emotional functioning. I remember well the feeling of pushing back critical thoughts about my group, “There was no-one to share them with,and I was bound to get punished in some way if I expressed them.

It was almost a physical feeling of pushing the thoughts from the front of my head to the back, much as one pushes a hot pan to the back burner. My emotional life, too, was largely sup-pressed during my tenure in the group.

An especially toxic way to punish someone is to praise them, reward them, even promote them, Then, with zero warning, punish or expel them.

This is a fiendish form of abuse. The newly promoted disciple's heart is wide open with joyful gratitude. Sudden punishment with zero explanation is
to shit in that person's heart. He or she will be left distrusting joy for the
rest of their lives unless they engage in the deepest of healing.

The victim goes crazy desperate for an explanation. The victims spouse may be included in the banishment or may not be. Spouses may go grovelling to the leader imploring a pardon for their disgraced partner. The only one who can provide the explanation is the abuser. An abuser will never empower the victim by giving an explanation.

If allowed to return, the victim may be browbeaten into some form of catastrophic moral capitulation.

The only remedy is to recognize several things:

God does not treat us this way.

Only nasty humans do this sort of thing.


The only way a victim of such abuse can heal is to **abandon** all hope of ever getting a satisfactory explanation from the abuser. Evil can never explain itself.

Anyone who does this to you has revealed who they really are. Whatever joy and spiritual progress they gave you was part of their disguise.

You were kicked out because you are a better person than your abuser.


Recognize the group has abused wisdom, beauty, good feelings, community service (if it has done any) to conceal its true nature.

For this you will need a recovery community. Chances are, others have been treated this same way. Go and look for them. They will be glad to give you support.

If you still have family members or beloved friends in the group, this requires a vast re-appraisal of your entire life. You need support from a community.

An isolated person is no match for this situation.

Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2020 07:44PM by corboy.

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Re: Westernized Sufi and Theosophical Groups
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 07, 2020 07:54PM

Matthew Remski has analysed a talk given by Reggie Ray, a teacher who was trained by Chogyam Trungpa, a notoriously abusive guru.

Am posting the URL here in case others find it useful in understanding what they have been through.

Reggie Ray Spiritualizes The Terror of Disorganized Attachment in Relation to Trungpa

Matthew Remski

This excerpt from a 2014 “dharma talk” by disgraced former Dharma Ocean founder Reggie Ray provides a textbook example of how the terror of disorganized attachment – as analyzed by cult survivor and researcher Alexandra Stein – can be framed as a spiritual necessity.


Some teachers in theosophical groups may still be recommending Trungpa literature today, or worse, are themselves Trungpa disciples.

Remski has assembled quite a lot of disturbing information about Trungpa - and Trungpa's son and successor, Mipham.

For more, go here:


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2020 07:27PM by corboy.

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Re: Westernized Sufi and Theosophical Groups
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 06, 2020 10:33PM

'facet' who participates in discussions here at the CEI message board wrote this:



If you’ve been involved in mystery schools, freemasonry, a healing modality, and / or other related groups and subjects (chakras, hell and heaven, angels, ascended masters, caste system) you will no doubt have been exposed to the many “levels” that must be traversed in order to be respected within the circles and / or simply succeed within yourself and society as a whole.

Each level of attainment will likely cost money, and more importantly it will cost you your mind.

Hierarchy thinking involves ensuring that you, the seeker, is fully programmed with a system of thinking that sounds pretty much like this: higher and lower.

There are lower realms of attainment (in whatever form) and higher realms of attainment, with higher being more desirable even when it is openly posited that lower is just as good anyway, the stigma of “lower” remains.

You will find the same model in most computer games that you may have played, which gives you, the player, a false sense of achievement simply because the game has been designed that way, with the people behind the game knowing and never revealing the system.

Hierarchy thinking model is flawed in its use for self growth for one simple reason: it requires a higher and a lower sense of self and others, a higher superior (superiority over others) meaning that an inferior must exist for the higher superior to survive. This will be the lower inferior (inferiority under others).

Any one of us brothers and sisters sharing the Earth will know that each are equal, yet individually free (autonomous) to choose as we wish. There is no need for superior and inferior mindsets when it comes to respecting each other as fellow human beings.

We each have to deal with life’s ups and downs making the best of what we have access to, which doesn’t make anyone better or less than worthy as humans.

If you’re ready and it is your choice, you can feel free to put hierarchy thinking in the bin.

Hope you’l enjoy a nice Saturday !

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High Value Recruits Treated Differently Than Grunts
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 12, 2020 11:40PM

Many Theosophical/Sufistic groups pull in persons who are affluent and socially sophisticated. It takes a lot of leisure time to pursue the demanding course work along with gardening, theatrical, musical and travel activities often required by such groups -- as well as dressing and decorating one's house to the luxurious standards demanded by fussy gurus. Not to mention making frequent donations and expensive gifts to such gurus to gain, maintain or regain favor if one has incurred disgrace.

This article from Vice Media focuses on a non Theosophical/Western Sufistic group, NXIVM. With a change of names, it is just as accurate a description of what goes on in other exploitative hierarchical groups.

Why So Many Celebrities Joined NXIVM, According to Cult Experts
HBO's docuseries 'The Vow' makes clear that NXIVM was filled with Hollywood types—but why was the cult so good at recruiting them?

by Drew Schwartz
September 11, 2020




Do you think it was a conscious effort on Keith Raniere's part to recruit celebrities into NXIVM?

Benscoter: I know it was. People like Allison Mack—they really tried to pull them in and then really gave them lots of attention and lots of special perks.

Like what?

Benscoter: They get more access to the leader, and the leader tells them how important their role is and how they can use their fame to make a difference in the world. So now their fame has a higher purpose. It's one thing to be famous and get good roles in movies; it's another thing to be able to use that to really make a difference in the world. And that's really appealing to people who have more depth than just the desire to be rich and famous.


Once a group gets a high value recruit, that person has friends and access to other well placed people. All the new recruit has to do is recommend the group or (say) a therapist or body worker associated with the group to a friend in distress and another high value person has been pulled into the net.

Corboy note: some groups once, you make it clear you crave to join them, make you wait, crave, get desperate, make you jump through hoops. Some Theosophical/Sufistic groups may delay your initiation and keep you waiting a long time. Then, after you've eaten humble pie (aka shit sandwich) long enough, (a novel experience for a socially successful person) the group may let you be initiated and even require you to disclose your finances. Some groups may require prospective members to be financially self supporting -- a strange ominous requirement for a spiritual project.

You are being added to the group's investment portfolio of high value human assets. (End of Corboy comment.)

From the article

Why So Many Celebrities Joined NXIVM, According to Cult Experts



But what about after the initial recruitment phase? You'd think that as soon as things started getting weird, and abusive, and you watched NXIVM bleed your bank account dry, you'd see that you had been duped and want to leave.

Ross: When you come in, you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and then you go into the training with no advanced understanding of what you're submitting yourself to. You have to understand that they went through unbelievable amounts of training. You're eating, sleeping, breathing NXIVM, 24/7. You're in a hotel room with NXIVM people, you're sleeping with them, you're constantly talking about NXIVM, NXIVM, NXIVM—day after day after day after day, for 14 days. In my experience, you can break people in 14 days and you can change them and you can lock them in. And NXIVM was very good at breaking people.... most of the people that made it through it became devoted and ready to sell NXIVM to every friend and family member they knew.

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Re: Westernized Sufi and Theosophical Groups
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 15, 2020 09:26PM

This was written by a disciple a sect whose leader broke away from the Hare Krishna group. Change a few names and terms and it applies to theosophical and sufistic groups as well.

In non Muslim sufistic (and even Muslim Sufi groups), social bonding comes when members and aspiring members hear and tell miracle stories about the masters, Babas, sheikhs, pirs, murshids.


You see, one has to have divine sight to witness the effulgence of the spiritual master.

Telling these stories confirms that *you* the story teller, were highly developed enough to:

* See a miracle or divine effulgence where inferior lower level samskara ridden folks would see nothing

* Believe the story instead of being skeptical - skeptics are inferior to you


The methods of creating idols were visible in the group. They are still visible today. It is not logical. For if a "pure devotee" is rare, then isolationism is unnecessary because being "self-effulgent" will automatically stand out and attract spiritually interested people to him.

> The concept of "only one pure devotee" also contradicts the words of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, who wrote and emphasized in letters i.e. to Tusta Krishna das, that each of his disciples could be "pure devotee".

Like most groups, 95% of the followers do not read their scripture. It is social group with some divinely ordained mandate. There is also a lot of fear to motivate people to stick around just in case they miss out.

The senior disciples would talk about how Mr. Butler would float on his feet, that he had a radiant glow, each story progressively getting more detached from reality. You see, one has to have divine sight to witness the effulgence of the spiritual master.


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Re: Westernized Sufi and Theosophical Groups
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 15, 2020 09:34PM

Miracle stories are common currency in Vajrayana (aka 'Tibetan Buddhist) groups. Ditto for Gurdjieff groups.

This readiness/will to believe would make it quite easy to pass from Vajrayana, to a Theosophical or Sufistic group, or any group which bonds through making and telling miracle stores.

Here's an example of how personal hopes plus social context affect one's beliefs.

Stephen Batchelor, formerly a practitioner of Vajrayana tells how he lied to himself, convinced himself he had witnessed a miracle. Why? He wanted to belong.

Batchelor tells, how as a young convert to Tibetan Buddhism, he convinced himself that he had witnessed a yogi sorcerer perform a miracle.

Batchelor gives us the setting.

Dharamsala, 1973. Impressive, exotic.


A white canvas awning, straining and flapping in the wind, was strung in front of the Library of Tibetan Works and Archives. Beneath it sat a huddle of senior monks in burgundy robes, aristocrats in grey chuba robes, and the Indian Superintendant of Police from Kotwali Bazaar.

I joined a crowd gathered on a large terrance below and waited for the proceedings to begin. The Dalai Lama, a spry man of thirty-eight, strodue onto the impromptu stage. The audience spontaneously prostrated itself as one onto the muddy ground. He read a speech, which was barely audible, above the wind,
delivered in rapid fire Tibetan, a language I did not yet understand, at a velocity that I would never master. Every now and then, a drop of rain would descent from the lowering sky.

Nearby, on a ledge, a lama-sorcerer conducted a ritual to delay onset of the rain so the Dalai Lama could finish the lecture.


A white robe, trimmed in red, was slung carelessly across his left shoulder. When he wasn't blowing his horn, he would mutter what seemed like imprecations at the grumbling clouds, his right hand extended in the threatening mudra, a ritual gesture used to ward off danger. From time to time,
he would put down his thighbone (trumpet) and fling an arc of mustard seeds against the ominous clouds.

Then there was an almighty crash. Rain hammered down...the noise went on for several minutes. The lama on the hillside stamped his feet, blew his thighbone,
and rang his bell with increased urgency. The heavy drops of rain that had started falling on the dignitaries and the crowd abruptly stopped.

Next, Batchelor describes the effort of being in a group.


After the Dalai Lama left and the crowd dispersed,I joined a small group of fellow Injis. In reverential tones, we discussed how the lama on the hill--whose name was Yeshe Dorje--had prevented the storm from soaking us.
I heard himself say: "And you could hear the rain still falling all around us:
over there by the Library and on those government buildings behind us as well."

The others nodded and smiled in awed agreement.

Here, Batchelor steps aside and tells on himself.


"Even as I was speaking, I knew I was not telling the truth. I had heard no rain on the roofs behind me. Not a drop. Yet to be convinced that hte lama had prevented the rain with his ritual and spells, I had to believe he had created a magical umbrella to shield the crowd from the storm. Otherwise,
what had happened would not have been that remarkable.

"Who has not witnessed rain falling a short distance away from where one is standing on dry ground? Perhaps it was nothing more than a brief mountain shower on the nearby hillside.

"None of us would have dared to admit this possibility. This would have brought us perilously close to questioning the lama's prowess and, by implication,
the whole elaborate belief system of Tibetan Buddhism.

Batchelor reveals yet more:


"For several years, I continued to peddle this lie. It was my favorite (and only example) of my firsthand experience of the supernatural powers of Tibetan lamas. But, strangely, whenever I told it, it didn't feel like a lie. I had taken the lay Buddhist precepts and would soon take monastic vows.
I took the moral injunction against lying very seriously. In other circumstances, I would scrupulously, even neurotically, avoid telling the slightest falsehood.

Yet somehow, this one did not count.

"At times, I tried to persuade myself that perhaps it was true: the rain had fallen behind me, but I had not noticed. The others -- albeit at my prompting--had confirmed what I said. But such logical gymnastics failed to convince me for very long.

"I suspect my lie did not feel like a lie because it served to affirm what I believed to be a greater truth. My words were a heartfelt and spontaneous utterance of our passionately shared convictions. In a weirdly unnerving way, I did not feel that "I" had said them. It was as though something far larger than all of us had caused them to issue from my lips".

(Confession of a Buddhist Atheist - Stephen Batchelor, pp 3 -5.

"I wanted to believe all this. Never before had I encountered a truth I was willing to life for.

"Yet as I now see it, my lie did not spring from conviction but from lack of conviction.

"It was prompted by my craving to believe."

(Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist, page 5)

Batchelor does not say so, but there may have been something else at work.

Sharing miracle stories creates an intimate bond. Sharing miracle stories also creates a tribe.

Those who tell the stories are the in group, the tribe. Those who are skeptical are the outsiders.

In a lonely world, it is wonderful to find or create a tribe.

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Re: Westernized Sufi and Theosophical Groups
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 23, 2020 09:24PM

"...skip forward and you are mopping their floors and cooking and building websites and doing photography and helping at retreats all because apparently you are serving a pure devotee or a disciple of a pure devotee.

"None of them have any contact with him by the way"

(Quoted from article given below)

The author of this post lives in another country and recently left a breakaway sect of the Hare Krishnas.

Substitute the name of your own group and see how much applies.

If reading this makes you feel angry, scared or anxious -- or you make yourself impersonate a calm state -- that says a lot.



Date: September 22, 2020 07:50PM

Finally I have found somewhere safe to talk about the 'Butler' and his gang. I am in Australia and got out a couple of years ago. I have had to adjust to real life again but still look over my shoulder. In Australia is is all run through ASMY - Australian School of Meditation and Yoga, and all the sub groups that belong to them.

Like everyone else has said, you start by wandering into a yoga and meditation center. Its decorated really beautifully and everyone is really calm and nice. You either do a yoga class, a kirtan chant, a cooking class, or all of the above. You feel great. You think you have found a new home and lovely healthy friends who don't like to party and you feel relieved. You start wanting more peace and you ask questions and then they see how enthusiastic you are and they start funneling you through.

You notice some things that are a bit off and they just distract and redirect you and tell you that you need to chant more as your confusion is caused by impurity and living in the mode of ignorance. skip forward and you are mopping their floors and cooking and building websites and doing photography and helping at retreats all because apparently you are serving a pure devotee or a disciple of a pure devotee. None of them have any contact with him by the way. But they will put his toe nail and salt spray on all the food they serve to people. Yes you read that right. Some of them don't even know that's what they are spraying on the food.

They have you going to their private houses for kirtan and dinner but before you know it they have you listening to and watching these old tapes. I was very attracted to all the gorgeous young girls and yet they were mostly married to really creepy assholes who treat people like crap. They refer to people as cows and that they must heard them and its like evil tupperware pyramid scheme, how many cows and calf's can you get.

They give you books to read, photo's to worship, food to eat, chanting to sing, cd's to listen too. You are not allowed to listen to anything but chanting, read anything but vedic texts and speak of any other god other than the vedic gods but yet they swear they are not Hare Krishna's. They make you renounce your family if they are not supportive. I lost my wife over it and thought it was a good thing at the time. I was so deluded. at first I thought I would find a new Krishna wife and be happy. but then all of the women only ever do two things and talk about two things, their weight and what dosha they are and what ayurvedic thing they ate, or fake preaching where they close their eyes, sway and make their voice weird. They are all obsessed with their bodies!!

They are still home schooling children, shunning and judging. I have another friend who just got out as a lot of people did when COVID 19 meant people had a break away from the place and had real world issues to deal with and found that they had been brain washed.

once you spend alot of time with them and they think you are ready, they have you renounce more and more of your ordinary life through passive aggressive guilt trips. They make all the women become Yoga teachers and married couples sleep in separate bedrooms and what they don't tell you at that very first yoga class is that the trajectory is that you will renounce your love of anything or anyone and they dress it up as enlightenment by not being attached to material things or two family members. They say things like why lament over the living or the dead.

They are very sophisticated and have great musicians and food and you think it is all above board. Just observe their language and try to talk about normal things and watch as they find a way to make it a preachable moment. but see if they can preach without swaying, closing their eyes and making their voice different. Watch your own behavior change as they force more teachings and 'service work' on you.

ASMY Australian School of Meditation and Yoga is in most capital cities with one main center and sub group gatherings like in yoga studios and town hall's and where ever else they can infiltrate. My friend in Queensland said at their main center they had an american tourist living in a storage room working day and night for no pay. Hope she got away.

They are very defensive when you ask about their 'guru'. Defensive and vague. They discourage your own endevours and ideas unless it is vedic related. But they don't come out and say that at first. It took me 3 years to click and then have been in contact with a couple of other escapees that reached out once they clicked as well. In Australia there is nothing about it being a complete cult. They do not tell you all the stuff about Chris Butler. They worship him like a god but yet none of them seem to have alot of contact if any with him. They do their trance voice when they talk about him. Some of them have been doing it all for decades and have all their kids involved. The kids were sent to the school in the philipines. Alot of them worked over in the philipines about a decade ago and further back. They only do a selected amount of chants and they fire any yoga teacher who doesn't do kirtan at the end of their classes. The men at first you think its so great they are not talking about macho stuff, but then they compete with you in other ways. The women all become obsessive basket cases.

You become very cut off from the real world and they always have some deluded answer for everything. It's just not safe. If they kept it just as simple yoga and chanting, that is relaxing and good for people. But if you are herded through to be one of them, then expect the first few years to be good and you will think you are doing such great things for humanity. then you will realise you are speaking like them and behaving like them and you don't actually know what you are taking about as you try to force it on your friends and family as instructed. Start them with the food and kirtan, then get them to read the scriptures, they shouldn't read anything else...... and so on and so on. They will get you constantly promoting their Wai Lana products and retreats and all sorts of crappy things to lure people in.

The kicker is when they tell husbands and wifes not to have love or attachment to each other or their children or they are behaving in the mode of ignorance. This is such a damaging community. I'm glad you are all free of them all over the world. take care, from melbourne australia.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2020 09:31PM by corboy.

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