my theory, is that as cultish leaders get more and more POWER, they get crazier and crazier.
Even the Roman's knew that a warrior coming back from a battle in victory could go POWER-MAD and think he was a God, so a slave would tell them in the chariot they were only a man.

Power makes people go power-crazy.

Even "movie stars" who have power on a movie set, can start to go nutty and make absurd demands, and get away with it. Same with CEO's, and anyone else. They start buying gold shower curtains, etc.

So Ching Hai may have started out a mix of true belief, and Mark Kay type cosmetic saleswoman entrepreneur, and fame-seeker, etc.
But as she got more and more power, she goes further and further, and no one can stop her. In fact, the angrier and more Domineering they get, the more they attract people who are submissive, and buy into it.
And it spirals out of control.

Just looking at the signs, it does seem that the Ching Hai group could be heading for pretty serious danger in the future. She has found this "End Of The World" pitch works really well on many people.
How far will she take it?

Power Corrupts. That is really true. Basically every culty leader, even if they start out with good intentions, goes down that same path. They get more ruthless, cynical, greedier, angrier, more lazy, paranoid, selfish, and the rest of it.

There must be thousands of cultish leaders at this level out there.

I have also noticed that the tone of Mme. Ching Hai's messages has become more extreme over the last year or so. I agree with Anticult that the 2012 date will be re-set when it has passed. Some few disciples will drop out but many more will re-dedicate themselves with increased energy to the cause. Failed prophecy is a calculated risk that in a bizarre twist of cult psychology works in favor of the group leader!

During my time in a cultic group the date for imminent disaster was set and re-set several times. In particular our Guru claimed the Year 2000 as one of our great successes as we had meditated the dangers away. 'We made it!' sounds all too familiar. It is the modus operandi of most Gurus.

Unless of course Ching Hai's excesses are becoming truly outrageous. If she doesn't curtail her own extravagant lifestyle, (topped in my opinion by that ridiculous book about her dogs!) she could find her popularity waning quite a bit. She can't forget that people in the West will accept all the screaming and 'ego' burning only up to a certain point before it clicks that something is seriously amiss. I am European and I believe that Americans are not really 'hardwired' for permanent submission (I know I'm generalizing but I really hope it's true!). The American character is too independent, it seems to me ... could be wrong of course.

She'll end up the way of Osho and all other such Gurus if she doesn't get her act together; collapsing under the weight of her own arrogance. Thanks to everone who added links to this thread. Once again the wealth of information and research here is invaluable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2008 04:33AM by solea13.

Anticult, I agree with your view on cult leaders.The old saying power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely seems very applicable.Sometimes it seems that some leaders start out with good intentions, but I believe that it is the lack of checks and balances, and that there is no one able to say to the leader "hold on a minute, stop! What do you think you are doing", that means that foolish or bad ideas can become holy writ and get followed.

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yasmin
Anticult, I agree with your view on cult leaders.The old saying power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely seems very applicable.Sometimes it seems that some leaders start out with good intentions, but I believe that it is the lack of checks and balances, and that there is no one able to say to the leader "hold on a minute, stop! What do you think you are doing", that means that foolish or bad ideas can become holy writ and get followed.

Indeed Yasmin, you are quite right as this happens all the time in ching hai's case as her followers are either too frightened to speak up or simply don't want to rock the boat of the group dynamics.

On the odd occasion a follower goes the "hold on a minute, stop!" route the person is either shouted down or ridiculed in front of everyone by ching hai.
Some followers are even suspended for asking "too many questions". Not a nice thing to witness.

One good example of a follower being mocked in this connection can be found here on youtube [tinyurl.com] where a follower suggests an idea to ching hai about their "Go Veg, Be Green campaign"

The young man rightly suggests changing the slogan to Go Vegan...etc so the masses can better grasp the message.

But surprise, surprise, the supreme one simply brushes the suggestion to one side with an out of point joke to which all the followers & sadly the questioner himself feel compelled to laugh along to.
Who knows if she misunderstood the question or simply didn't want to be seen to be corrected by a "mere" follower. Whatever the reason, this certainly is not the actions of one who calls herself a supreme master.

It is a long video so please only watch from 13:43 mins. Ching hai justs mocks the guy's intelligence in front of the cameras.

Imagine what goes on off camera.

The above link is ok at the time of posting this, but even if this video suddenly vanishes off the net there will always be more than enough examples of the ching hai cult status especially as she persists in her quest for fame, power & fortune on the backs of her followers.

Regards,

K

More emerging info on the crazy cult of ching hai here:
[supremeleak.pbworks.com]
[ramsss.com]
[uk.groups.yahoo.com]

Sorry to dredge from the grave, but at 13:43, where the guy suggests an improvement, she responds by saying why not go breatharian and does not seem to insult the guys intelligence. Breatharian is actually a movement(retarded and dumb in my eyes and research) but a movement none the less. It is founded by a lady by the name of Jasmuheen which is from my research a true scam. Scriptures of the past have referenced to people living off the energy of the light, but we all know how religious scriptures(including the bible) have exaggerations as they are made of hearsay and stories with a moral meaning.

As for fame an fortune, I can say that she has quite a following, and her press releases surely do boast of her achievements and charitable contributions of but as for fortune, it does not seem that she lives the lavish lifestyle for other cult leaders. She does wear fancy clothing, but all of it is self designed and manufactured. Yeah, it may retail for $1000+, but it probably costs nowhere near that to make, like most fashion clothing. Her jewelry, probably loaners from her inventory. Lavish, yes, an expense she pay for from disciple contributions, that is unknown. No Ferraris, no Mercedes, she can't even drive(well at least) She does own a grip of property, but for the ones I am aware of, they are meditation centers and are self sustaining from the donations of the disciples. One of the larger ones that I attend in NJ is far from overflowing in money and excess. Of all the centers I have visited, none of them are pilars of lavish gold and excess like other cults. I have been part of the group for over 14 years and while there are something that are done by Master's disciples to be questionable, nothing that points the finger directly at SMCH as being a "dangerous cult" If anything, she is quite a fantastic marketer and entrepreneur, creating her own niche market. None of her items are pushed on disciples, no one is forced to purchase and she turns down direct contributions from disciples. In the 14 years that my wife and I have been part of the group, we've spent about $2500 in merchandise and $2000 in retreats(that cover room and board in resorts). That's about $321 per year. My friends all contribute $20 per week to their church. Anyhow, i'm rambling, but until I see hard facts of people who died following her vegan diet or becoming lunatics from her spiritual teachings, i don't see it as a detriment to society like alot of the other cults posted on this message board.

At the end of the day, beware of what you read on the internet, while some of it is truthful, a great deal is hearsay and exaggeration.

dynamic:

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

The group has frequently been referred to as a "cult" and the leader does control millions of dollars of assets and spend cash freely on herself.

Complaints from families and former members also seem to indicate a pattern of using meditation, trance and religious beliefs to exploit members for "gifts," free labor, etc.

I understand, thanks for the reply rrmoderator.

By definition(wikipedia), any group that is beyond mainstream culture/religion is a cult. I think the word cult is often used in a derogatory term. The leader does control millions in assets, but that is mostly from the appreciation of value of the properties. She has held some properties since the early 90's that were purchased as distressed assets and now are valued as much more. Most of her holdings from my understanding and being in the group is land that are used for "meditiation centers." On a counterpoint though, she did purchase a motel in France, but again, it is used for a meditation center/place for disciples to visit, not as her personal lavish residence. While I understand that early in her guruism she accepted direct donations, I do remember in the mid ninetys that she shunned direct donations to her. She then used her "talents" to create artwork, fashion etc to create high markup resallable items that disciples have the opportunity to purchase. Now, though the resale of these items, she puts it towards charitable relief(quite a bit), funding her satelite channel, etc. She spends quite a bit on disaster relief. When i attended a retreat in her main center in Taiwan, I learnded that she had a whole squad of distaster relief folks, truck, boats etc that she sends out at a moments notice. She has quite a spread in Taiwan(mostly land and outdoor structures), but her personal residence can hardly be descibed as lavish. So, yes, she does raise funds though the sale of high priced good, but who in the corporate sector does not? She may spend cash freely on herself, but I have not seen any evidence of that fact. Again, her cloting line may be pricy to the retail customer, but whats it really cost to make? Probably next to nothing. Her fancy jewlery? Probably loaners from her inventory. I recall that she often borrowed eyeglasses from her staff when she needed them. I bet she's got Lasik now though. So, yes, definately a sharp businesswoman, but hardly someone who live's a playboy's(or playgirls) live of luxury like some other dubious sect/cult leaders.

As for complaints, I think that's pretty subjective. Most who complain are usually weak of will. Others who complain are usually from the byproduct of a local leaders or other disciples issues with the complaining party. We hardly have the opportunity to see her, probably once every two years or so, that most of the relationship with her is though the local "contact persons" And believe me, there are some pretty bizzare contact persons and some very overbearing ones. In my 14 years of meditiation, I was never seduced to buying a gold bauble or leaving my family. On the contrary, she stresses having a good relationship with one's spouse and kids, even if they are not part of the "cult" She touches on intimate stuff, parenting stuff etc. I don't get into a trance state nor am I hypnotized or have subliminal messages fed to me. Now that being said, I do volunteer my time to help out when I have the opportunity to her satelite show, but my family comes first. I volunteer because i want too, not because I was tranced/forced to do so. I think most get's into a fear mode by the local disciples about working hard/free/etc then anything. Those that are weak of will get overly worked by the local contact persons, but that is not her fault. In fact, to shake things up, recently, Master made the centers give the opportunity to democraticly vote on a new contact person to prevent this from continuing.

Religion/Cults/Sects are all up for interpretation, and those who are weaker of will understand things differently then those who are stronger of will. Anyhow, I digress, not to be on the defensive, but giving a perspective on the other side of the table. It is important to see both sides before passing judgement, and the bubbly fanatic devotees that most associate with SMCH are not a good source of that side. By definition, SMCH is a cult, but wasn't Jesus and Christianity a cult when he first started preaching?

Thanks again Mod for having such a great forum for folks to share information!

dynamic:

Perhaps you should change your name here to "denial."

You refuse to face the facts reported and seem able to rationalize almost anything.

At this point it's fair to say you are a die-hard follower and devotee of this supposed "supreme master."

Please understand that attempting to place blame on those victimized by cults isn't a meaningful response to the damage they do.

All it demonstrates is that you are not here for any meaningful exchange of ideas or discussion.

But thanks for demonstrating the rap of Ching Hai followers, which appears to be much like what followers of David Koresh, Jim Jones or for that matter Charlie Manson might have said.

The definition of a cult is actually quite specific and relatively narrow, very few groups or leaders fit that definition.

See [www.culteducation.com]

But you are not really here to understand or discuss, just to defend Ching Hai and obfuscate as much as possible.

Your expressed opinions are "subjective" to say the least, and given your penchant for denial, hardly credible.

The nicest thing I can say is that you have apparently been "taken in," and therefore are not thinking either objectively or critically.

Anyone interested in the facts about Ching Hai need only read the news reports.

I agree with Dynamic, I first thought this Supreme Master Ching Hai sect was about money and power, but after I visited the local center in Los Angeles, it seemed very modest and somewhat like a buddhist temple. The food was served for free, and people was just there to meditate together in silence. I spoke to different people and they were all cheerful, nice, and yes, normal. I suggest people to go see for themselves before passing judgement. My two cents.

JesusAndHisDisciples:

See [www.culteducation.com]

The leader sure seems to be rich from whatever income she draws upon.

The group has repeatedly been called a "cult."

And the so-called "Supreme Master" has generated significant complaints.

What you saw is no meaningful reflection of the group, but rather a superficial observation.