re: the website stuff.
The edit button is on the bottom of the post, but the post can only be edited for a while after posting, not after that.
New posters are on moderation for a while.
As far as any website issues, there is a Tech support forum here. [forum.culteducation.com]

Its a great idea to put all of the info about Supreme Master into one single place. But you may find, that the Wiki is swarmed by SMCH followers in about 5 minutes.
;-)
In the cultic research area, forums have to be moderated, otherwise the sect members will take it over instantly.

Threads like these can work very well, as its a good place to put all the info.

Quote
NoMaster
That's what I understood after my second attempt have been displayed. When I came back to the page before, I could see that my first attempt finally appeared, in the right place. I thought it failed because your posts (even if posted after mine) were all displayed in real time, while I was still waiting for mine to appear.


I agree with you about the importance of this thread because it is well ranked on Google search. After a while, it would be good if we could reorganize all these exchanges into a dedicated website. It could be a wiki, which allow a lot of interactivity and easy to update. A thread is ok for discussion, but not to find information because it's too linear and you have to read it from the begining.

in the event of a "SupremeLeak"...

Here are a few ideas to organize a structured presentation of the facts

Who is Ching Hai?
- The official story
- Other versions of Ching Hai's biography, which have to be considered (find Eric Lai's reseach)
- The real number of followers
- The unverifiable informations (which are sometimes also unbelivable, like the 450 years old Master in Himalaya)
- The hidden facts (about the environmental scandal in Biscayne National Park, about the untold wedding, about the dead child, etc.)
- The rise of individual protests against Ching Hai on internet

Why is Ching Hai criticized?
- Lies (ex : her 450 years old master, breatharianism, supernatural powers, exaggerated humanitarian actions)
- Mind Control (by teachers and Supreme Master TV)
- Leading followers to confusion by twisted speechs about what is religion, what is meditation, what is God, and what is a master
- Free labor, exploitation of benevolent and credulous followers
- Concealed request for donations from the members (by emails, not public)
- Politics corruption (the Bill Clinton affair, Ching Hai day in some countries)

What is NOT criticized
- The usual ridiculous false dilema : Ching Hai promote vegetarianism, you are against Ching Hai, so you are against vegetarianism.
- Vegetarianism is good, but maybe not artificial meat (and you don't need a master just to be vegan)
- Global warning problem is (probably) true and very important (but Ching Hai is not the only one to preach that).
- It's good to have 5 precepts... (of course it's better to truely follow them)
- It is good to give millions for poor people (but saying so is not enough, it has to be attested)

How does Ching Hai manage to captivate her audience?
- Fear of the end of the world and other false prediction
- Conspiracy theories (these meat lobbies who rules the world, they want to sabotage our divine mission)
- The culture of secret (some knowledge have to keep secret, because ignorant outsiders would not understand...)
- Wonderful tales (a well-known trick : the most enormous the lie, the more believable...)
- Ching Hai is good : she manage to be seen doing humanitarian actions
- Confusion tactics : "It is the same! Welcome all!"... all religions, all practices, have the same goal, whatever you believe it's true, and I am all of that in the same time : what I preach is the truth you see? The difference is Jesus, Mahomet, Buddha, etc. are dead, and I am a living Master, ho ho ho what a luck that you guys have me!
- You are God! You are the Masters! (how Ching Hai get her audience by flattery)
- Use of scientific theories and popular news (like global warming) to get some credibiliy among followers and introduce other wooly theories
- "Seen on TV" effect : How does Ching Hai try to get pride on her TV with 40 languages and 14 satellites... Is it a guarantee of seriousness? No, you can do whatever you want with thouthands of volunteers, and a few million dollars.

What are Ching Hai's weapons?
- Supreme Master Television : a propaganda and disinformation weapon, bye her followers and for her followers (brillant! how to make people produce themselves the lies they will believe...)
- Internet Power! Understand about cybersects. Ching Hai and her dozens of domain names.
- The voluntary benevolent followers : always ready to spread the message of God (Ching Hai herself)
- The "contact chain" : followers inform followers, they trust each other
- The group influence (other followers do it so I should do it, they believe this or that so that should be true, they all feel God so if I don't that is because of me, I'm not pure enough and must try harder)

How does Ching Hai protect herself from the critics?
- Conspiracy theories to denigrate the criticizes from outsiders, and to throw disciples into paranoia
- Preaching the necessity of unconditional love for the master (so that disciple lose their critical mind)

How does Ching Hai raise funds?
- "She doesn't accept donations!" When you can't change the truth, just change the words...
- Loving Hut franchise and free labor (often illegal)
- Food factories, for Loving Hut AND directly for the disciples (they are informed by email from their meditation center when they organize group orderings of vegan meat from Taiwan, and it's about 16 euros/kg...)
- Her low quality books and DVD, that she produces herself (which means she have 100% of the benefits)
- Design products and the promotion she makes (followers are invited to buy them to reveive more Master's blessing)
- The priceless paintings which are only bought by followers
- About all these apparently insignificant operations, like appeal to help for financing leaflets production and benevolent help for distribution... Moreover, don't forget that advertising makes money... for her!
- About the natural disaster : do we know precisely how were used the raised funds?
- The Amazon ranking trick, with the voluntary participation of followers (who believe it is to save animals and the planet)
- Enlisting politics (it worked for several countries) (this has to be verified) to get credibility... and funds!

Learn how to make your own Ching Hai speech
- Sophism : some exemples of these very ancient speech technics
- Ching Hai's speech analysis (from her website, her lectures on SMTV) learn how to spot rethoric tricks
- Followers speech analysis (from blogs, petitions, etc.)
- SMTV speech : Television is a lie (learn how to spot her fake interviews, her fake awards, fake happy audience, fake questions of followers, etc.)
- Melting scientific + non scientific = apparently scientific (ex : global warning is scientifically demonstrated, but not breatharianism : there are just individuals speech!)

Is Ching Hai a cult leader?
- Did you know anything about cult before?
- Some other cults : same same but different
- General theories about cults (which are previous to Ching Hai) can be applied to Ching Hai?

Help! My friend is a Ching Hai addict, what can I do?
- Coping methods adapted to Ching Hai's followers (get inspiration from Rick Ross article on coping strategies)



Of course it is just a first draft, and would need to be retought

Quote
The Anticult
Its a great idea to put all of the info about Supreme Master into one single place. But you may find, that the Wiki is swarmed by SMCH followers in about 5 minutes.
;-)
In the cultic research area, forums have to be moderated, otherwise the sect members will take it over instantly.

Threads like these can work very well, as its a good place to put all the info.

A wiki also can be moderated ;)

@ Ocean_of_Lies:

Its unfortunate that even the members of this thread seem to misinterpret what is being said about the Veganism!!
So one needs to be 100% clear.
For the record, of course there is nothing "wrong" with Veganism, as was said, its simply a personal choice about food. Every person makes their own personal choices in that area.

And there is no "attack" on SMCH for Veganism. In fact, that is what one would expect the followers of Ching Hai to say. They will probably distort the facts in their mind, and say that Ching Hai is being attacked for being a Vegan by the meat-mafia, or whatever.
Of course, this is FALSE. There is no one in any cult field, who would ever even think to comment about being a Vegan or Veggie, its NOT relevant at all.
Being a Vegan and Ching Hai's cult, have nothing to do with eachother in the general sense.

Yes, Ching Hai APPEARS to have been a Vegetarian for a long time.
but being a VEGAN appears to be recent for the sect.
Vegetarian and Vegan are different. [www.vegetarianvegan.com]

Frankly, what Ching Hai 'says' cannot be trusted. There are already many many falsehoods from Ching Hai which have been exposed.
So when she says she is ______, the facts need to be proven, everytime.
One could make a list of the Lies of Ching Hai.


Now, in terms of cults and food.
Many cults use FOOD CONTROL as a way of getting into their followers lives, all day everyday. Frankly, what Ching Hai is doing with food, seems to be done for psychological-persuasion reasons primarily. [forum.culteducation.com]
So take Veganism out of it, and just focus on the FOOD CONTROL aspect of cults. Ching Hai is using food as a psychological weapon.

And for real Vegans. They should be very very skeptical of the ingredients in the Ching Hai food, that is being shipped to her Loving Huts.
What is in that food? How is it monitored? How does anyone even know its organic or really Vegan?
Anyone who knows anything about Organic foods, and is honest, knows that unfortunately there is incredible amounts of fraud out there, where food is mislabeled by some scammer in the supply chain, simply to triple their profits.

So who is certifying every ingredient in the Ching Hai food that is being produced overseas?

And guys like Will Tuttle are very concerned about pollution. But how sustainable is it for Ching Hai to ship food all over the world to people in small units? That is a terrible waste.
It seems most real Vegans and folks like that eat local foods for that reason.
So it doesn't add up.

Just like Ching Hai claiming to be an environmentalist doesn't add up, with her using the alias Celestia De Lamour and then massively TRASHING the environment, and then disappearing when it got discovered by the Feds.
Any sane person will realize that Ching Hai aka Celestia De Lamour is obviously not an environmentalist! Its beyond and absurd joke.
Does an environmentalist build a massive aviary to imprison a bunch of exotic birds for her amusement? Its absolutely ludicrous.
Its the same with the Veganism, it doesn't add up, and VegNews put the pieces together on that.

--------------quote-----------------------
[en.wikipedia.org]
Environmental violations

In 2004, an artificial island and 330-foot (100 m) long boardwalk created in the Biscayne National Park cost $1 million USD to remove after being illegally constructed by Ching Hai, known locally as a wealthy property owner under the pseudonym Celestia De Lamour.[29] National Park workers replanted between 400 and 500 mangrove trees in the area once covered by the illegal boardwalk. The private property owned by Ching Hai adjacent to the national park was seized by police and later sold at auction to the village of Palmetto Bay, which planned to establish a park on the site

Park removes access to illegal bay island
Biscayne National Park rips out an illegal boardwalk and replants mangroves, hoping to halt visits to a small man-made island.
[www.culteducation.com]
..."County and federal investigators say the island and a curious hideaway -- including a large aviary, three motor homes and a sun deck -- were built by workers for the former owner of an adjacent property. They believe that owner, listed in Miami-Dade County property records as Celestia De Lamour, is better known as a religious sect leader named Ching Hai. ..
Federal agencies still hope to recoup costs from the landowner, but investigators say she and her workers have left the country. ...

[www.washingtontimes.com]
Park service to eliminate island

MIAMI —The National Park Service is trying to recoup $1 million it is spending on eliminating a man-made island just off the coast of Miami-Dade County.
The tiny island in a remote area south of Miami, discovered a year ago, was built by piling rocks in Biscayne Bay National Park, the Miami Herald reported yesterday.
County officials said the island, which has an elaborate hideaway, is connected to the mainland by a boardwalk. They said it was built by Ching Hai, a Vietnamese-born woman who founded the Suma Ching Hai International Association, which says it has as many as 2 million members in 50 countries.

The park service said the island will be removed, but it will cost $1 million and officials have not been able to reach Miss Hai, also known as Celestia De Lamour, to discuss the issue.


[www.culteducation.com]
...But they have learned enough to say she's even more colorful than the name on Miami-Dade property records -- Celestia De Lamour -- might suggest.
Federal and county sources who have done background checks on her say De Lamour is better known internationally as Ching Hai, or ''Supreme Master'' of a sect with a string of meditation centers and vegetarian restaurants...
Until last year, Ching Hai lived on and off in Miami for several years virtually unknown. Then in January 2003 a tip led inspectors from Miami-Dade's Department of Environmental Resources Management to an illegal construction on national park property just south of the Deering Estate off Old Cutler Road.
What they found: several tons of rock measuring 32 feet by 42 feet forming an island atop protected sea grass. And the island was growing. Workers were loading more boulders in a wheelbarrow when inspectors arrived...
Until the discovery, records show De Lamour, under a variety of spellings, owned a considerable amount of pricey Florida real estate, including 34 undeveloped acres in New Port Richey and a handful of properties in Miami-Dade. Most of it was waterfront, fitting for a leader whose name in Mandarin loosely translates to ''blue sea.''
She lived on and off at two Venetian Isles bayfront homes, where she bemused neighbors before moving out, seemingly overnight, about six months ago. Records show both homes have since changed hands.
...
Detectives, court records show, made repeated efforts to contact De Lamour or representatives at other homes and mailing addresses. Most of the time, no one answered. Workers who did shrugged off questions. No one representing De Lamour ever made a call or wrote a letter about the county's property seizure.
''It appeared very secretive,'' said Robert Fiallo, a Miami-Dade police attorney. ''Nobody knew anything.''
Federal prosecutors also indicted Teng Kun Hsu, a laborer who directed the work, on pollution and destruction of federal property charges. But he never showed up in court, records show, and was declared a fugitive on Sept. 15.
...
-----------------------------------



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2011 01:03AM by The Anticult.

Even the Feds and detectives can't access these people! Its completely outrageous. One should obviously never give even 1 dollar in buying anything to someone like Ching Hai, who uses a string of aliases, and is hiding out somewhere in the world.
Of course no one will ever know where the money has gone.

All these claims of "charity" are just self-promotion. Proper charities have open books and are audited by outsiders, to make sure the donations are being used properly.
But with Ching Hai, not only is it impossible to know where the money is being spent, even professional investigators and the Feds couldn't access her. No wonder she put herself in hiding.

And what is up with all these "environmentalists" and their obsession with RV's? Those are the worst pollution hogs anywhere.
Its a sham, an illusion.

As well, handing out "candy" to the little people, is an old eastern Guru cultic technique, used by cult leaders like Sai Baba.
Ching Hai just copied that technique from them, and of course the candies were probably made in some sweat-shop with hydrogenated oil and bought in bulk.
Unfortunately in these cultic groups, most people stop thinking.

As was said, its conditioning.
Ching Hai throws out food treats for her doggies and birds in the morning, and then candy treats for her followers in the afternoon. Its the same thing.
Using FOOD to condition people and animals.
Same with the restaurants, get conditioned with food as Ching Hai is mindwashing you on the TV.

Ching Hai's claims of her eating habits are not credible. Many Gurus set up these targets of perfection, their followers can never meet.
Meanwhile the Guru is chowing down on Burger King Whoppers, or preaching sexual morals while sexually abusing their flock.


So when Ching Hai is claiming she is not eating honey, then guess what? She probably has some secret stash of super-special honey imported from a Queen Bee colony somewhere at $1000 an ounce.
After all, Ching Hai is the Supreme Bee of the colony, and the Queen Bee does what she likes.
The Ching Hai worker bees work all day and all night, and must follow the rules, to support the Queen Bee.
No wonder Ching Hai talked about "honey", a bee colony seems to be just about what Ching Hai created around herself.
And as stated, when she started, it was one of the few sects lead by a woman. So it would make sense that Ching Hai would think of herself as the Queen Bee, with a bunch of drones following her royal orders from on high.
"move these tons of rocks from over here and then pile them over here to make a Ching Hai fake-island, and do it at night so no one can see what is going on. Get to work you lazy worker-bees!!"

Supreme Master Queen Ching Hai.

ok its unoffically official, this is the best thread anywhere right now to explain and deconstruct Ching Hai.
Any facts with references, can also be posted to Wikipedia, as her followers will try to delete them, but as long as there are references in the news media, they can't delete them forever, if people keep reposting them. [en.wikipedia.org]

Another excellent new post here to really get the ball rolling. [forum.culteducation.com]

correction:

It was pointed out that I used the term 'real Vegans'.
That is sloppy and incorrect. Of course, many followers of Ching Hai may be Vegans long before they met Ching Hai.
So to correct that, that would mean Vegans with no connection to Ching Hai Inc.

There are all kinds of Vegans out there, and most obviously have nothing to do with Ching Hai.
So non-Ching Hai Vegans are the ones who could research the actual food content of the Loving Hut food products, and give an objective scientific review. Take the food sample to food scientists, and have it tested, and research the supply chain for the food's ingredients, etc.

It seems the VegNews article was a start on that.

Of course, food is a touchy issue, and again, for the record, being a Vegan has nothing to do per se with Ching Hai and her sect!
Non-Ching Hai Vegans it would seem would be those who would force clarity on these issues.
Its a bad mistake, to be like Will Tuttle, and just try to suppress and deny the serious cultic problems with Ching Hai, just because she is pushing Veganism in her restaurants.
Yes, they think its a Food War, and its ok to lie in a war using propaganda.

But that is not going to serve Veganism in the long-run, it will backfire badly.

Couple other points...since this is about exploring recovery from the Ching Hai cultic sect...its important to remember that disagreement is healthy!
Unlike these sects which demand a slavish groupthink and conformity, when analyzing these sects, disagreement is healthy.

(that comment usually leads to members of the sect appearing the next day, to bring up a dozen contradictory issues to try and confuse people. But sorting facts from propaganda is never an easy process).


As well, it seems that English is the minority language in the Ching Hai sect.
So it would seem very important that these issues need to be raised in other languages as well.
Sometimes using Google translate [translate.google.com] to post in both languages can drive traffic to the thread.
It seems that explaining Ching Hai must be done in multiple languages, and English is the minority language??

Another fascinating thing about Ching Hai and her methods.
Its truly brilliant for a sect to come up with a special "diet" for their followers, as most sects do, as we all have to eat 3x a day.

But if the sect can come up with a special narrow diet, then tell their followers they can eat local, BUT, its better if they order some of the sects specially-made food each month. The food is 'special' and as well, its blessed supernaturally with the Guru with some kind of invisible divine essence.

(some sects do this with special new age water, that is, distilled water in a fancy bottle, or with some type of supplement or dried berries, etc).

But of course a true believer is going to want to order this food for themselves, as the food is special to them. If a serious follower ordered only $200 bulk a month in expensive food, which is doable for a serious follower.
With 10,000 followers that is 2 million a month right there in sales, 24 million a year.
And people have to eat, so its all repeat sales.

Of course, the special food has to be "processed" so it won't rot in the warehouse or in shipping.

It really is a brilliant idea, and its surprising more sects don't do it, or perhaps they do and its not publicized very much.
Come up with a special processed "natural" food supplement or foods, and that is cash-flow for life.

Of course, no one knows what is in the food, as the factory and warehouse are concealed somewhere in Taiwan or China, or who knows where.
Who's to know if they are really making the stuff, or are sourcing it through a generic contractor for pennies on the ton?
Some groups have done that, they order some type of dried "berry" from China by the ton, and then put it in a fancy package, and mark it up 5000%.
Only later people find out its laced with pesticides, far worse than food in the west.

Loving Hut is getting big, and needs a full investigation from trained food experts in that field. They would access the food directly, without Loving Hut being knowing it, and then test it in a laboratory, to see what's in it.
These "secret food factories" are bad news, whichever side of the fence they are on.