hello
From: tran
To: greenleaf
Date: 09/05/2011 07:47AM

Dear Greenleaf, what country are you in?

I have heard similar experience to yors by some people I know after initiation and not getting what they seek.

Very hard for people to leave I think they feel embarrased like they were tricked or something.

Are you in australia

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Tran,

This is the private message that I received from you 3 weeks ago.

Do you mind tell us a little bit of the stories that you heard which is similar to me? and what happened to them, did you introduce the forum to them?

Like OOL said -- in your pervious posts, you seem like clearly make up your mind for what you want to believe, if this is the case, please do not pretend. because everyone can tell.

what brought you this far to this forum? Maybe it is better for you to meditate under the sun more and get direct contact with GOD for all the answers, and the points of course.

BTW, are you in Australia?

May you be blessed too.

Hello there,

Yes I am in Australia. I know some people who have been in this group and know there are mixed experiences by the people, some good , some not so good .

Recently, have been getting to know people better in this group , my point is the wish to perhaps explore more meaningful relationships and whether or not this would potentially work. From what i am hearing from this forum, there appears to be no possibility of this happening, which I find disheartening and disappointing from my view. I guess the question for me is do I turn my back on what I believe to be potential happiness in a relationship based on what I hear on this forum , or do I take a chance. And when I do it, does it become a choice or choosing between me or the master for the person, or can we all exist together.

Perhaps, I am more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, frame it as naivety or what have you, but perhaps it is possible for a relationship to blossom between a follower and non-follower. I mean it may be difficult, but the question is if it is impossible. If I have strong feelings for a person, then does there being in a cult mean that I should stop a relationship from developing?

Perhaps I am guided by my own sense of judgment which you may not agree with. You are open to judge me as you fit, it is not my intention to promote ill feelings between anyone here. It is regrettable if this is the case.

Despite this , I wish you all well.

Quote
tran
I know some people who have been in this group and know there are mixed experiences by the people, some good , some not so good .

Ask yourself why those who left the cult all have bad experience, and all had similar issues.
Ask yourself whether those who say they have a good experience are really self-thinking.

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tran
Recently, have been getting to know people better in this group , my point is the wish to perhaps explore more meaningful relationships and whether or not this would potentially work.

Beware of love bombing.

Ask yourself : what do you really know about them? Do you just quietly drink the pleasant stories they tell you about how their life is wonderful since they are disciples? Do you think that accepting to avoid conflicts of opinions will give you the opportunity to notice the mess in their mind?

I ask you a direct question : did you watch Supreme Master TV? I strongly advice you to watch the live TV for a while (at least enough to watch a few different programs). If you are a normal thinking person you will find lots of amazing talks, oriented informations, propaganda speeches, false claims, obvious bullshits, etc... and the more you will watch it, the more you will notice the similarities between the TV propaganda speech and the speech of your own friends. Keep in mind that the disciples watch it for hours anytime they can, because they have been told that it will give them positive energy, or good merits from the master. Anyone can watch this TV channel without being disturbed by the obviously brainwashing content, is definitely someone who have already lost his critical mind. It is possible to get someone used to quietly receive deceptive informations, just need a proper preparation. People are carefully prepared before they are initiated. Love bombing is one of the technics which can prepare someone to accept more. But there are many others. For exemple didn't your friends tried to make you aware of our planet's environmental issues (as if you were not aware enough...)? I presume they did, and if not, believe me they will. Up to me this is a typical exemple of the foot-in-the-door mind control technic : once you trust the benevolence of Ching Hai (and your friends) about these issue (whom usually make everyone agree...), you are ready to trust Ching Hai and the disciples for a little more, and you are ready to put one more foot in the cult's activities. And so on until you become a disciple yourself.

I hope you'll be "guided by your own sense of judgement" more than guided by a blind love (as most lovers can be). Love is rarely reasonable. Your weakness is that you seem to very underestimate how harmful and sneaky cult are. In my opinion you should at least take enough time to read books about how cults work (cults in general, not necessarily about Ching Hai), this would makes you aware of some deception tricks and mind control technics before they can be effective on yourself. As I told you, being intelligent (you probably are) is sometimes not enough, one should also be aware and informed (and also being little suspicious would be wise).

Quote
tran
I guess the question for me is do I turn my back on what I believe to be potential happiness in a relationship based on what I hear on this forum , or do I take a chance. And when I do it, does it become a choice or choosing between me or the master for the person, or can we all exist together.

Perhaps, I am more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, frame it as naivety or what have you, but perhaps it is possible for a relationship to blossom between a follower and non-follower. I mean it may be difficult, but the question is if it is impossible. If I have strong feelings for a person, then does there being in a cult mean that I should stop a relationship from developing?

There will be a choice to make, at least for one of you.
From your side : If you keep your critical mind then soon or late you will suffer seeing your grilfriend victim of this constant brainwashing, and you will suffer being obliged to admit that her love for you is not enough for her to trust you more than she trust her master.
From her side : If she can't convince you at least to become vegan, she will always feel uncomfortable and the relationship will probably fail because of the pressure from the group on her. And if you dare to tell her what you think about the lies of her master, she will isolate her mind from your interferences, and the relationship will probably fail because you'll not bear to live with a wall.

Of course you can dream about a happy ending, like your girlfriend loving you so much that she eventually trust you and accept to face the truth. Or maybe that will be your girlfriend's happy end, with you eventually accepting to be initiated, and to give your life to that crazy old pernicious lady.

Getting into a relasionship with a cult member is and will always be your own personal decision. Again we are in no position to tell you what to do. You can decide to follow your heart, but don't forget to watch your back.

About love bombing--it is detectable if you notice how you're being distracted from relationships (at home and at work) where people dont love bomb you.


When skillfully done, love bombing (aka flattery) is not at all obvious to the targeted 'mark'.

For years I thought of flattery/liove bombing as something that would be easy to detect.

As in, something obvious like what we see in comedy routines on TV or in the movies, where someone is obviously 'doing a number' on someone.

I have been on the receiving end of flattery, and did not recognize it for what it was.

Successful love bombing and flattery perfectly match up with your own blind spots and biases. They will be invisible and will make you feel wonderful or at least feel hopeful or relieved.

At the time I was targeted, I had finished a silent retreat and my defenses were down.

Elsewhere in my life, I felt like a failure.

Someone I went to for spiritual guidance, a person who was well recommended and who had a degree from an Ivy League university, and was deeply charismatic, told me I had a special destiny. That personal aspects that I considered faults or flaws were actually signs that I had special talents, and was meant for a special destiny.

What this did was make me all the more dependent on the person who told me this--love bombed me.

Another form of flattery is to identify whether someone is ambitious or fed up with his or her current job and to hint to them that they have a special vocation to join the ministry. A leader may hint that you are a potential successor.

A very effective kind of love bombing or flattery is to tell you that you have a special destiny and then either tell you directly not to divulge it to anyone else, not even your spouse, or have it be the kind of thing that you must not think too much about, for fear of your being egotistical and then no longer worthy of this special destiny that you are told you have but are then told you must not think about, lest you become unworthy of it--a perfect recipe for a catch 22.

Later you may find out that many other persons were told the exact same thing and also, like you, told to keep it secret.

My being afraid to think much about this alleged special destiny of mine kept me from thinking deeply enough to

1) wonder why I was told something that would be guaranteed to inflame my ego and derail up my prayer life

2) By not thinking about this, I never imagined that the minister who love bombed me was getting a big ego kick for himself by hetzing me up

3) That this meant I felt more isolated from my pals, dared not tell them and thus become all the more dependent on the minister who had flattered me in this way.

That friends, is how love bombing and flattery actually work. When administered by an expert, love bombing and flattery are forms of seduction that are tailored to your hopes, fears and to your own blind spots. You wont recognize it at the time and (heavy sigh) it'll make you feel good.

THe way to test this is- pay attention to the way the flattery and love bombing generate inner turmoil and confusion.

If you get love bombed, paying attention to non flattering relationships and work will be difficult.

Realistic feedback will make your work and outside relationships better--not be a distraction.

And...this inner turmoil will mess up meditation or prayer.

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Koldin
We know ching hai has already banned some of her own initiates from watching certain secret teachings/lectures videos because she doesn't trust any of you in the group. She also doesn't allow any initiates to take home certain videos to watch(only allowed to watch in center with supervision). So it seems this group is in a state of paranoia as regards all her evil secrets leaking out to the public.

This is the state of your so called spiritual group to which you so support with all your heart. This is were you go for enlightenment?

Worshiping a master who insults your intelligence & supporting a group were you have to tell lies & live in paranoia is a sure sign its time to pack your bags & leave to freedom, self determination & real happiness.

Now coming back to the topic of deleted videos, some of those secret-watch-only-in-center-videos seem to be finding there way unto the web as this screenshot shows.
This one was of a secret meeting in Hungary 2005 when ching hai came out of hiding after running away from the USA to escape the authorities over her destruction of the beautiful Biscayne National Park as reported here on the Rick Ross Cult Awareness

That year, this meeting was so secret, you were not even allowed to even tell your spouse you were heading off to an undisclosed address in the outskirts of Hungary. Only a chosen few were informed of this meeting. Those present were never to tell anyone until suddenly a few months later the edited videos came out & a bit of disharmony ensured within the group for which ching hai later invited everyone to the "great" 2006 Thailand retreat to calm things down & again milk her disciples some more.Short Thailand Retreat Article here

Anyway it must have been risky taking this snap off of that secret video, but it just goes to show some initiates within the group are waking up & asking important questions of this cult. Goodluck to these people, please stay safe.

This photo is not that sharp but its a strong indication that ching hai herself proclaimed herself as GOD. The subtitle on the screenshot reads "Because if you ask me if i am GOD, i cannot tell lie, so i say "yes."

"I cannot tell lie"...Yeah right!

Evidence to show how extremely secretive this group is as well as the total information control within the group.

Below is the message about one quan-yin messenger was expelled out because of “sharing” the “initiates only” videos which are about Ching Hai claimed to be the highest GOD ever etc, with seemly expelled “fellow” initiates.

The contents are as follows:
“ From today, XXX is expelled from our Quan Yin Family because against Master’s instructions, he leaked out the download tapes (not meant for outside people) to XX, a member of Tony’s group.”

The attached can be seen they are treated like mug-shots and the announcement will be circulated within the group. This evidence shows someone leaked the top secret “initiates only” videos could be expelled with humiliation which also means this group is definitely a destructive cult.attachment

Below is an example to show the absolute obedience commanded from organization and Master.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Foreign_Group
Date: 2008/12/27
Subject: message from Saint Martin Center 1227

To All Centers:

1. Please inform all centers that people who are sick are not allowed to come to Saint Martin Center. If they are permitted to come, both the patient and the contact person will have their ID cards confiscated.
2. Initiates who are sick after coming to Saint Martin Center can only meditate in their rooms. Their family members or friends should stay in their rooms and look after them.
3. In spiritually speaking, we should have all grown up by now, must able to look after ourselves. Only the one with good spiritual practices can comes to Saint Martin Center.

WGL
Saint Martin Center
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So even for seemly trivial matters to outsiders like “uncontrollable” sickness such as cold or flu, yet if the followers and contact persons are found causing the “troubles” during the period of retreat there that would cost their ID cards confiscated (severe punishment). It’s no wonder sometimes that will make contact persons paranoid too if they don’t screen out “attendants” properly. Crazy and unreasonable ORDERS from this absolute authoritarian administration – Definitely a destructive cult!

corrections for the above 'screen out the "attendance"'.

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puresoul
Crazy and unreasonable ORDERS from this absolute authoritarian administration – Definitely a destructive cult!

Agreed.

The "Foreign Group" or the Headquarters is the online mouthpiece of the authoritarian ching hai herself. Whatever message or order received is obeyed to the letter or else there will be consequences like the mugshot treatment described by Puresoul earlier. And besides they feel they are actually receiving instructions from "God" almighty.

The mugshot treatment is usually the final humiliation for a disobeying follower as they would normally have gone through the "Red Card Treatment" & the ""Passive Aggression"" stage. There are other cult control tactics like the public humiliations in large gatherings were ching hai herself singles out a follower for an almighty scolding(3rd paragraph) session leaving said follower in shock, so alone, demeaned & emotionally scared. Yes ching hai always rationalizes these scoldings as good for the initiate with words about taking karma upon herself & such nonsense.

So its no surprise that in many cases the initiates/followers have to break the 5 precepts they vowed to keep at the time of initiation to obey these dubious instructions. The irony.

So for example they'll tell lies & deceive the public, like in the Amazon Book Fraud Case, to help push the sales of ching hai's substandard "Birds/Dogs in my life" books. Might as well have titled it "The Bucks in My Life".

Bet you wouldn't need fake 5 star reviews to sell that one eh ms ching hai? :)

To the initiates who were asked to take part in this fraud, do you know how many innocent booksellers, owners of small independent shops who lost large sums of money after they rushed to buy these useless books because of those false Amazon recommendations?

Many questions for you the initiates to answer for yourselves as you read these posts, as ching hai herself is long gone into her selfish-couldn't-care-less-about-anyone-else-narcissistic-loopydoop-hellhole.

So for example, can you see how you not only endanger the wellbeing of yourselves, but those of your family/friends & the wider general public by your continued membership of this cult?

Ask yourselves where your ching hai was when these initiates, your fellow brothers were being arrested & slapped with criminal records for life for breaking the law of the land while following "Crazy and unreasonable ORDERS from this absolute authoritarian administration"?

It's time to live our own dreams & aspirations & not those of someone else, especially that of a charlatan like ching hai. You notice how she was all nice & honey in the old days when she just started this business with her shaven head & yellow humble Buddhist robes to entice you?

Now compare that to recent years when almost all her dreams of fame, wealth & power have come true through your sweat & suffering, & she's behaving all erratic & crazier with her dangerous "order" for you to meditate under the sun , the 2012 doomsday fakery & the laughable Martians-are-watching-SMTV nonsense plus proclaiming herself as not only supreme but the GOD almighty! And all this without even caring one jot how you see or think of her anymore.

What does that tell you? Its painful to realise as many on this thread & indeed on the culteducation.com forum have, but like many of us here, you've been used, abused & kicked to the kerb through no fault of your own by someone That You So Adore.

You still cling on, but for how long?

You are still reading these posts with interest, so there's a spark of realisation somewhere inside you. Please keep reading & educating yourselves & maybe one day we'll hear from you. That's The Beauty of these forums eh? You Are free to just read & take your time & decide for yourselves as opposed to the pressurised settings of a cult.

Now imagine that same freedom, your own timetable & self determination full-time, everyday henceforth.

What an image!

Thanks for reading.

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Koldin
"The Bucks in My Life"

Still being advertised(not) on Ocean_Of_Lies' hilarious youtube channel.

Without the fake reviews of course:)

I think we have to have believe . in people.

try not to concentrate on the her teachings, but rather just the company of the friends who happen to follow her teachings. make it a non -discussion and things wil be ok.

Thats what I find works, when we talk not much mention of teachings etc just talk about other stuff. so happy days and things can work.. with hope comes faith.. with faith comes belief....