Hello, Everyone, I just wanted to introduce myself and tell you a little bit about my story. I've been lurking on this board for about a year now. It has really helped me to gain clarity and insight into an cult situation I was involved with for about three years. I have to say first off that I am very lucky compared to a lot of the people whose stories I read about on this board--I "got out" before this guru and her group took over my life and my being, but it was a close call.

At this time, I do not wish to give out details about who this woman is and where she is located. I do not trust her and I do not trust the other members of the group, and would like this to remain as anonymous as possible to protect my safety.

In a nutshell, I have always been a "spiritual" person, a seeker, and had a many powerful spiritual experiences in my life prior to meeting this woman and agreeing to be her student. When I intially met her, I had an intense, powerful experience of love around her. I was not looking for a guru or a teacher, but I was introduced to her through a freind of mine. I did the intitiation and the meditation intensives and attened her monthly groups.

I totally trusted her and found myself very commited to being her student and trying to be a "better" person. At first, it seemed to be a benevolent association, not high-demand at all..although she did rail on often about "commitment." About how if we could not commit to her, to what she asked of us in this group, then we were not able to commit to “anything.” (I internalized this and didn’t realize until much later that I was being guilted into staying. I am a very commited person and do not have a pattern of being “flaky.”) As time went on, I noticed many things about her that I was uncomfortable with. She was often very verbally abusive to people in the group, she drank like a fish, she had wild mood swings, and so on. All of this was chalked up to her being "enlightened" and therefore not able to conform to certain societal norms. Or, she would say that it was a deliberate attempt to keep us on our toes, (as was changing the rules all of the time), so we remained open and "present." Or, that she drank because our “energy” was painful for her to be around. She lambasted people who had left the group, attacking their character in front of everyone, and made it sound like anyone who left would become miserable, 0self-serving, depressed, and poverty-stricken. She would also kick people out of the group frequently, then “lovingly” accept them back into the fold after a certain amount of time. Almost all of them would talk about how they “had nowhere else to go” and had learned the error of their ways, etc. They were all so happy to be back after being asked to leave.

Looking back, it seems strange that I didn’t see these things before. I did SEE them, but all of the justifications for them seemed logical, somehow. It seemed okay. Everyone seemed happy and glad to be there, and we had a good time together. There was a lot of laughter and fun in the group. It felt warm and cozy. And when I said anything about what I didn’t feel right about, I was told that I was perceiving things through an unenlightened mind—I couldn’t possibly “get” it because I wasn’t enlightened. It was “arrogant” of me to assume I knew better. I wasn’t supposed to interfere in her teachings or really question anything. Questioning things meant that I was in “thinking mind”—ego, and not “receptive.” And, the people in the group were very well-educated. They had responsible jobs, homes; most of them were well-off financially and most of them appeared to be fairly level-headed. There was even the head of the psychology department at a local college in the group. If all of these “normal” people were involved in it, then it must be okay, I thought.

Eventually I found that i was having a more and more difficult time commiting to the meditation and that I was having severe anxiety attacks before going to her monthly teachings. Once, I was so axiety stricken I couldn't bring myself to attend a group. Missing a group was a huge no-no. I called her and told her I was not able to attend and that I was having horrible anxiety, and at the next group she lambasted me in front of everyone, saying that I was being emotionally self-indulgent. She told me that I had to overcome my anxiety or I would never achieve enlightenment. It did not occur to me until much later the anxiety I was experiencing was a direct result of my deep inner knowing that something wrong was going on with this group....and that I did not want to be there anymore. Of course by this time I felt that I was dependent on her for my spiritual growth, that I couldn't trust myself because I was too "deluded"--what she always told me, and that I needed a teacher to keep from falling into self-deception and ego.

After 9/11, the verbal abusive intensified, the demands grew highter, and she began talking more and more about the threat of a nuclear attack. She wanted the group to buy property in Cananda and move up there so that we could be “safe.”

During my time in the group, I met a man and we fell in love very quickly. Although he was not in the group, she agreed to do our wedding ceremony. Shortly after I got married, she began making comments about my husband "holding back" my spiritual growth, etc. My husband and I were going through a number of struggles in adjusting to marriage, (this was a first marriage for both of us and we were a bit set in our ways, being in our mid-thirties). I was considering divorce in my confusion and was leaving for a retreat with this woman, where I felt that I would have some time to think about it and make a decision. I had been sharing my frustrations with this woman, and I think that she thought I would decide to leave him. I found in my absense on the retreat that I missed him terribly and I really did deeply value our relationship. After returning from the retreat, which was VERY intense and exhausting, and almost dark in it’s energy, we had a group teaching the very next weekend.

She screamed at me when I told her that I that had decided not to leave him. She then spent the next 9-10 hours focusing entirely on me not leaving my husband. She screamed, yelled, hurled abuse, (which she called “love”) and had every single other person in the group yell, wheedle, and try to convince me that I MUST leave him or I would never grow spiritually. This literally went on for over 9 hours. The meeting started at 3:30 and didn’t finish until 1:00 am. I was told repeatedly that if I didn’t leave hi, I would become suicidal. I was told that I was hurting the group by staying with him. I was told that he was “vindictive” and that he didn’t love me. I was told that I secretly wanted children and that if I stayed with him I’d never have the chance….all of this and far, far, more. By the end of the night I was completely out of my body, exhausted, and terrified. I did not go home that night. I stayed over with a friend from the group. I was in a total, panicked dazed. And my husband was calling my friends house repeatedly, beside himself.

Continued on next post....

(sorry about that--I was having trouble getting the post to "post" and it kept vanishing...)

Since this experience, I have read and researched a lot about cults. I find it very ironic that I never once recognized this group as a cult. After all, I'm educated, intelligent, perceptive--surely I would have know a cult. We weren't forced to wear the same clothes and only eat vegetarian foods, after all....but all the same, what it came down to was control and relinquenshing of personal autonomy. I feel like a fool that I was not "on it" soon enough, that I allowed verbal abuse to go on in front of me and I didn't defend people...that I hurt my husband and that I almost gave up my relationship to be in this group. Because I believed so thoughroughly in this person.

I got an e-mail a few days after the last night I was in group from my close freind, also in the group. She said that this woman told her that I was "bad for the spiritual energy of her child" and that she wouldn't talk to me again....

It has taken until now to talk about this anyone but very close freinds. I still have nightmares weekly, a year after the event...and I still deal with guilt, pain, shock, betrayal, and a sense of disbeleif. It's very hard to trust myself now. I am "getting over it" bit by bit but it has really changed me.

Thanks for listening! I'm open to feedback.

Leopardgirl

(Note: I am not a mental health professional. This advice is meant to supplement any work you do with a counselor and is not a substitute for professional guidance.)

1) Start writing this down. Examine the entire social context of this group and its leader. This will take some time, and you may have to update this as you gain new insights. Get a ring binder so you can insert pages, if you prefer a written journal you can hold in your hands.

Give yourself a lot of time for recovery. If you're depressed or scared, this is normal. It doesnt mean you've spiritually failed or are in for disaster. That's just BS the leader told you.

*Someone as greedy and needy as your former leader cannot see you for who you are, and cannot say what is best for you. She was too busy reacting to her own neediness to see you clearly as a person.

2) Examine how you were recruited. You may have been 'groomed' and recruited very slowly, by friends or (perhaps) a healer or health care professional. These discreet groups often recruit patiently, slowly, using friendship or the provider/patient relationship as the medium. People with specific interests are often targeted, and because recruitment happens slowly, through people you already trust, you dont realize until very late in the game that something is wrong. Cults that operate discreetly and recruit in this selective, patient manner are remarkably stable--and dont provoke publicity as do the cults with 'pushy' obnoxious recruitment tactics.

3) People like your leader will select a specific social setting and ideology. Charisma is powerful but not universal. What is seductive and powerful in a Christian setting will not work well in a New Age setting. If you obtain and read 'Prophetic Charisma' by Len Oakes, you will learn how these charismatic people develop and their career trajectories.

4) Your leader surely must have learned her tricks somewhere. It isnt unusual for these 'leaders' to go from cult to cult, picking up tricks as they go. They may try to conceal their backgrounds, seem mysterious.

People can generate a spiritual, highly charged atmosphere, but still be crooked or neurotic. It is very difficult to imagine that someone who comes across as 'loving' may actually be needy and have found a way to seduce attention toward herself.

5) Energy work is easily abused. Its a classic New Age guilt trick to accuse people of 'having negative energy' or for a leader to pretend, on the basis of psychic powers, to know you better than you know yourself, or to hint that you'll be in for a life of misery and disaster if you leave (or are kicked out) of the group. Its BS.

6) All too often, these groups are so demanding that they monopolize your social life, and you lose all or most of your friends when you leave.

7) Leaders are adept at using methods that induce dissociation/depersonalization, and then con you into believing this is spiritual progress for you.

[forum.culteducation.com]

*8) If you have not already done so, find something that gets you into your body--dancing, riding a bicycle, time at the gym. A lot of this New Age stuff estranges us from our gut instincts, and if you learn to make friends with your body, you gain (or regain) access to your 'BS detector.

Dont over do exercise as a way to repress your emotions. You'll have to play around and find a balance.

Further resources. In addition to 'Prophetic Charisma'

If you read the threads for Gentle Wind Project

[forum.culteducation.com]

and for various fake Gurdjieff groups, you may see similarities to how your group was run.

[forum.culteducation.com]

The woman you describe sounds much like Anne Haas. After discovering I was exposed to the cult when I was small through my mother, I have learned that she has never dealt with her cult conditioning and has probably been brainwashed my entire life without her knowledge. Many of the tactics you describe are extremely familiar. I hope you expose this group's leader for the poisonous creature she is and find some good new friends soon!

The group you describe also sounds like Miracle of Love. Except MOL meets more often than you describe. The MOL founder, Kalindi, is alternately loving and abusive with the followers. Within the group, her abuse is accepted as 'facing your fears for your own growth, surrender to God' etc. When leaving the group, former members are truly fearful for the potential retaliation if they talk about their experiences. The humiliation for having lived under such emotional subjugation is intense.

The group also manipulates separation of spouses, either emotionally and/or physically. As attachments will prevent one from reaching enlightenment.

Truly amazing how similarly these groups function.

Glad you are beginning to talk! It is important to get this out, otherwise it eats you alive inside. You are healing. Congratulations!

And thank you, Rick Ross, for providing this forum!

Well, as reported in the other posts--your experience is sooooooo familiar to me--Only my old cult is located in Seattle and is called "Training in Power: a Spiritual journey of Service". the leader Faye Fitzgerald terrorized (I assume she still does, but as I quit several years ago--I can't use present tense with absolute certainty) her followers with her tantrums--and reeled us in with her charismatic charms. I could go into detail, but your stated experiences are ALL FAMILIAR. She drank like a fish, and yet would tell us how alcohol would lower our energetic vibration. She was a rage-o-holic. She was a lesbian (not a problem, of course) who preyed on her straight, usually married female followers. Her followers were all well educated professionals who "should know better", but we were all reeled in by the sense of importance and superiority that se cultivated in us. It took quite a bit of time for me after I quit to lose the feeling of "detached superior observer" I always assumed when interacting with non members. As I mentioned in another post: I still experience strange detaching from my body while driving (NOT FUN)--directly associated with all the meditating and creating altered awareness while in the group.

I don't know how the recovery process is going all this time later for you--but it definitley took me some time to get over how totally I gave my power away to the group--and to her. 7 years later I am still leery of groups and charismatic leaders(of any ilk). But I am now fascinated by the whole workings of cults and was even present for an intervention (a friend hired Rick to fly out and talk to his girlfriend about another group which she was swept up in). I feel like my 4 1/2 year involvement with the group was like getting a college degree in taking back my own self will: first I had to lose myself so completely in order to see that ultimately, I am the only one who can lead my own way on my own path.

Congratulations on what you did for yourself, 'Nobody'.

Can you recall what helped you/what you did or learned to do to take your power back?

And you mention altered states of consciousness. Did you find anything especially helped you recover from this? And how long it took?

Were there any books, persons or things you did that aided your recovery?

Taking back my self will cme from suddenly being jarred into seeing just how far I had given it away--it was one of my leader's raging rants which suddenly jolted me into seeing just how ridiculous the whole situation was. I agree with who ever posted that coming to one's own realization that one must leave is better than being arm-wrestled away by people who want to intervene--but then, I know (from experience) that intervention is sometimes necessary. I was one of the lucky ones.

It helped having a therapist who was familiar withcult mentality. Also, I read "Captive Hearts, Captive Minds" (Or is it the other way around? "Captive Minds, Captive Hearts"? can't remember). Listened to Carolyn Myss's 2-tape set called "Spiritual Madness"--in it she addresses, among other things, the proliferation of new age cults.

But, it took awhile. The stress of quitting the group led me to break up with my serious boyfriend at the time because I had absolutely no energy to give to anyone else (fortunately, a few months later we patched things up and are now married). Now I feel balanced and healthy--but I still get a wicked--childlike--pleasure at hearing gossip about my old group--I don't think that will really go away. I do occasionally google the group's name to see what it's up to--as well as what the leader is up to. I keep hoping an article will be published about them so that Rick can put their name on his roster of groups.

The one thing which still affects me in a very inconvenient way is the whole effect of too much time spent in altered states of consciousness: I have developed a fear of driving on freeways due to the fact that something about the visual stimulation of driving fast would trigger a feeling of being high without actually having smoked anything. this sensation would panic me when it happened, and, over time, it pretty much hard wired my brain into an anxiety response. Desensitization techniques (ie: driving the scary bits over and over again until I'm okay with it) hasn't really worked. I have tried EMDR, but I stopped because the practitioner really bugged me (not as easy to trust someone with your brain after having been in a cult!). I'm thinking of trying hypnosis--but same issues of finding a trustworthy person. But, fortunately (or unfortunately) my daily life doesn't require me to drive on freeways --so it hasn't been a pressing issue--and I've been dealing with it for 7 years now. I do drive on parts of the freeway--knowing full well that I might have a panic attack. I have found that fear of the fear coming up makes things worse--so I just take the approach that it may be a good drive or it may not: I deal with things as they come up and don't worry about it too much--and so far I have not harmed myself or others.

Oh, and educating myself about thought reform and other cult techniques has been really helpful. I feel better able to explain to others about my experience in an educational light--and it gave me room and reason to forgive myself for having fallen prey to that mentality

Nobody, since you're appear to be investigating various therapeutic methods, Id recommend a book entitled [i:6e6f421a55]'Science and Pseudoscience in Clinical Psychology'[/i:6e6f421a55] by Lilienfeld, Lynn and Lohr.

The price may seem expensive, but it is [i:6e6f421a55]much [/i:6e6f421a55]less expensive than a therapy session and will give you background knowledge that will help you evaluate a prospective therapist. The authors discuss EMDR and are cautious about it.

And--long term benefits are what you want.

If you already have difficulties with involuntary trance (aka involuntary dissociation) you need to be careful about using hypnosis. You'd need to be evaluated by a therapist with background in the following areas:

Cult recovery issues

Dissociative Disorders--that is, disorders characterized by involuntary trance or other changes in conscious awareness that you have decided are undesirable/disruptive.

Someone trained to assess you as an individual, who can determine whether hypnosis is 'the treatment of choice' for your presenting concerns. You dont want to work with someone who would prescribe hypnosis for everyone who walks through the door. It can take several months for a good clincian to get a sense of where you're coming from.

Finally, ideally, you want a therapist who belongs to a 'consultancy group'--attends regular meetings of a support/consultation group composed of other therapists.

Therapy can be a lonesome profession. therapists go through life changes and stresses but cannot bring their private sorrows to their owrk as patients. They need support outside the office. And theres a huge amount of new information to keep up with.

A consultancy group helps a therapist by providing a bunch of peers with whom he or she can discuss puzzling features of a case,and who collectively stay up to date on a wide range of continuing education topics. And the group will also remind your therapist to take vacations when he or she is overdue for one, and be a source of support when difficulties come up in private life.

I have learned along the way that less than 1% of all the USA therapists have had any experience with "cult victims" or associates (my own term)

SO

you need (unfortunately) to be very careful who you connect with on this basis also......

Is this a strange "marble" we live on or what?

PAX