Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: January 01, 2023 06:59PM

Emotional thinking will always find an excuse to protect narcissism and evil.
It is very hard to break free from the layers of addiction to religious programming.
Trust me. I have been faithful to god before I even entered the womb.
The same way my earthly parents were a mix of good and terrible, so are the gods we worship.
When I look at my parents, they gave me many good things and good qualities. They also caused me great suffering. Via emotional abuse as well as staying silent in front of the abuse.
Do I hate them? No. Do I hate the gods? No. Do I hate butler? No.
I just see gods, humans, sciptures..l for what it is: Flawed.
No scriptures, no gods nor humans are perfect.
Including myself.
When we accept that this is messed up reality run by messd up higher government, life gets easier.
As below so above. This mess cannot be operated by a perfect heavenky government.
So it is easy to blame kali, satan, humans, maya…
Time to give up the Santa Claus mentality and grow up.
We don’t know whatsoever what is truly going on in this reality. It is time to trust the books snd theories.
Accept that we have been fooled and own it.
Trusting any divine or humans authority is like turning a gun on your soul.
I truly am sorry. I have spent decades to detox myself from the junk I ate on a soul level in the supermarket of lies mixed with truths.
As I said it before, I have huge gratitude for the positives of any spiritual path. Bhakti yoga was for sure a stepping stone.
But I will never consider any of them perfect. And I have the vision to also see the traps in all of them.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 01, 2023 09:33PM

Generally your right...

Doctrinal errors aside, some traps are mental and systemic in nature. The topic of rape in Poland that was supposed to happen in the center is being refreshed. A devotee who was finishing arati was to be raped. According to one account, it was a brutal rape. Another said it was an attempted rape and the person was different but also a woman. Perpetrator with mental problems. And the classic part according to one account is: a secret meeting of initiates in this matter, gossip for the sheep. The victim was to be asked not to report the notification to the Police because the perpetrator was undergoing psychiatric treatment and SIF Poland would be finished. The victim was supposed to refuse, the leader was supposed to force it on her through pressure and blame. Do you have to hate him? There's no need to. Should he be punished for pressure and blaming the victim? How punished if it's statute barred? Blow his head?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2023 09:34PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: January 02, 2023 01:42AM

May 2023 allow anyone visiting here to give up this nonsense, superstitious, fanatical religious cult once and for all and live an authentic life driven by rational consideration and contentment.

Jagad Guru is a lying scum bag who lives in a big beach house, marries his disciple, and is hateful, vulgar and basically a narcissist.

Bhaktivednata was a cheat and lier who spread a bullshit cult in the 60s that required shaving your head and sending your 5 year old kids to schools where they were abused.

Bhaktisiddhanta was an angry celibate who was generally disliked by his contemporaries and initiated himself and reinstated brahmanism. He was terrified of sitting in the same room as his sister and mother lest he be securely aroused.

Bhaktivinode was a charlatan who imagined himself to be a 12 year old gopi and made up so-called "birth place of chaitanya" based on dreams and visions. He was a sentimental fanatic with a history of cheating on his wife and a messed up family of feuding siblings. His legacy? A boys club where grown men sing and dance out of tune while hoping to get a vision of thier eternal form as a manjari 12 year old girl. Yay.

Chaitanya, if he even existed, was a scholar who left behind no scholarly works and started a cult of fanatical dancing which induced his epileptic suezures that his dumb followers took to be "extatic trance". Any "biography" if his life reads like a naive book of fairy takes.

Mantras have no power. They fix and cure nothing. The Gita has no focus message nor formula (doesn't even mention kirtan) for living a better life. The hare krishna mantra is mentioned in one questionable upanishad in reverse order. Not mentioned in any other scripture.

As truth wins says, it's a cult of bliss addicts who need more and more of the "drug" to feel slightly happy for a moment. If even. Otherwise it's just a cult of idiots, charlatans and exaggerated claims, myths and power hungry guru's.

Thank me later.

Jai ho ho ho.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 04, 2023 09:49PM

> marries his disciple,

From a recent anonymous but public statement on one of the FB profiles dedicated to SIF/SoI in Polish:


In the Gaudiya Math and throughout the Gaudiya sampradaya, the guru's disciple is like his daughter. It is strictly forbidden in Vedic culture and Varnasrama to use the position of guru to seduce a disciple and marry her. Such behavior not only disqualifies a person from the position of a guru, but throws such a teacher out of Varnasrama, out of community and out of caste. He becomes a pariah - a social outcast and loses all respect. The only job he could find in the Vedic community after such an act would be to empty the septic tanks and gutters. Marrying one's spiritual daughter is also a spiritual crime prohibited by Vedic literature and parampara. It is as if a parent - father or grandfather married his daughter or granddaughter and had intercourse with her. Pathology.

And some updates. The total assets of the Australian School of Meditation and Yoga are over A$42 million. Annual revenue (as of June 2021) is over $8.7 million and operating costs are over $3 million. As you can see, the charity did not consume the difference - more than $ 5 million. In addition, most of the revenue, more than 80%, is "return on investment".


Total current assets $14,651,141.00
Non-current loans receivable $0.00
Other non-current assets $28,009,002.00
Total non-current assets $28,009,002.00
Total assets $42,660,143.00

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: January 05, 2023 02:04AM

After all my horrible post cult experiences, my whole body goes in repulsion mode when I think of all the times I bowed down to these invisible entities.
Leaving this cult has been worse than leaving an ex jealous narcissist.
May noone ever go through what I have.
However freedom is always worth fighting for. Especially the freedom of the mind.
How easily we give our mind and soul to the first god and guru that comes along.
We are as hopeless as puppy that looks for love and food.
We literally torture ourselves day and night for sins we cannot remember from a 10000 lives ago.
We are given a cure to a poison that these same entities created.
They tell us overtly they have created a prison loop calld reincarnation. And yet we worship the prison wardens. Oh come on!
Once again the joke is on us.
Bulter’s case goes beyond psychiatry. He needs an exorcism. The level of suffering he has imposed on devotees is not normal.
It is a sad situation when you look from the outside.
The sooner he leaves this realm, the better.
I mean the huge ruse of being able to make himself pass for a saint.
This is the scam od the century.
I have no doubt that he has been fooled to believe it himself.
This path can be pleasant if you happen to be one of the favored disciples, the kids or in laws of such disciple.
And if you never question anything for the rest of your life until your body perrishes and you wait for the spiritual airplanes.
If you never question, the bliss and the promise of getting off the wheel will keep you alive for sure.
This is why they discourage you to never look elsewhere.
Kind of like the Truman show. Truman was very happy until he found out he was in a fake reality.
What you don’t know won’t hurt you. And devotees keep putting the red flags under the rug.
Emotional thinking. Minds higjacked. Lives, will and souls given away. No more self worth.
What else is left? Blissful bedient slaves lower than the straw on the street.
Driven by fake love and real fear.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 05, 2023 04:42AM

Truth wins Wrote:
> After all my horrible post cult experiences, my
> whole body goes in repulsion mode when I think of
> all the times I bowed down to these invisible
> entities.

I have similar feelings. When I remember the state of this faith in Chris Butler, the heavy energies on the retreat, the enslavement through participation in this party system, I look at the current state as a miracle of liberation. Although I had impressions before, where, moving away from the group and commitment, I concluded that I would not be able to have even 1/10 of such an agreement as a fully subordinate lamb who endured every discipline and snub of the leader and never raised her voice, did not move eyelid whether there was not a word of protest against the leader. Once I remember there were words of criticism to the second leader, but it was his brother initiated in God who immediately began to inhibit me. What else I remember is this ghostly loneliness and the equally incomprehensible other phases of enslavement similarly - when leaving. From the rain under Plantage. And then again rebuilding, rebirth, releasing, educating. The forum, the impressions of the members and of course their knowledge played a big role. The courage of Ram Ranson, Henry, you writing here and the great knowledge of Ian Koviak. The sanyasis or their works also helped me. Clairvoyants, visions, analysis.

> I have no doubt that he has been fooled to believe
> it himself.

His letters on Tapasya das from the year 2000 have been given to people from Poland - they will be analyzed and in due course the revelations from them will be presented here. But the letters now confirm that either Chris Butler did not understand the basic principles of the Bhagavad Gita or he lied to the end in an attempt to keep the group together.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: January 05, 2023 08:25AM

They say that people prefer to buy a beautiful lie than to be told an ugly truth.
This is how we are kept in that terrible state.
You know why I think butler has been made to believe he is a modern jesus?
Because I have extensive experiences with the psyche and how it operates.
I have been made to believe such things too. It is an absolutely mind blowing manipulation.
Very hard to explain unless you experience it. The mind is an extremely complex technology.
Even people like mr midgett who are so levelled and together has their mind highjacked. midgett’s mind has been highjacked by his faith in a person who obviously suffers from a few disorders: germaphobia, paranoia, hypochondria, plus narcissistic disorder.
If you are not able to see clearly, even if you look as sane as mr. midgett, your mind is polluted.
I will never trash the good values of devotees. And I have lost few of the most faithful friends I will never find again.
But their vision is limited even though they have more knowledge than the average joe.
A very set in stone beliefs plus fear will never allow one to go deeper.
The path could be ok with a very kind and sane guru. Without all the self guilt tripping: I am the most fallen, I deserve this. Without the fear of offenses.
And without forcing people to work like slaves till their body breaks down.
I think they have created an unecessary hell.
If some absolutely need to worship a deity, it shoud, not be done in such a totalitarian way.
The mind can be the gateway to hell. And obviously this path is still not a perfect solution, looking at many who still suffer from mind issues. Including the gurus.
I saw the website of our med center. They still don’t hold retreats (for new people) after 3 years of the start of covid.
Imagine the level of fear they carry. How can the faithful be so fearful?
And the issue is that they don’t really care about devotees. They are afraid to get sick and not be able to slave for the businesses.
If you spread a virus unknowingly, you will be emotionally punished.
I will never forget the fear in my body when I felt I was coming down with a cold at the retreat.
It is sad how krishma consc is supposed to be a shelter from the material world. And you end up with some new wounds and traumas. I guess it did not go as planned.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 06, 2023 08:02PM

Truth wins Wrote:
> If you are not able to see clearly, even if you
> look as sane as mr. midgett, your mind is
> polluted.

Listening to their lectures causes a sense of energy disturbance, dirt, problems with the nervous system, causes even 2-3 days of problems. Maybe it's post-traumatic.

By the way:

Information: people in Poland have the text and transcript of a conversation between Chris Butler, Siddhaswarupananda, "S" and David Muncie, Tusta Krishna das, on September 11, 1998 regarding problems with the Republican League and the Catholic Church in Poland.

There are no known agreements/arrangements with the transcript holders at this time, but you can comment on the content briefly, where Chris Butler suggests a more aggressive stance on this dispute or conflict etc. with the implication that the Church and the League are to blame.

The problem, however, is that the conflict flared up when Narashinda das, an old man, Leon was kicked out of his apartment because "SiF" was giving meditation classes there. Leon rented this apartment from the Catholic Church or some religious order, or at the same time or only the administrator of this property was a priest, i.e. a representative of the Church. There is no knowledge of whether leaders in Poland asked the manager for permission to teach in his studio-apartment, especially as a representation of a "competing" and unacceptable religious association. Lease agreements often or most often contain clauses that do not allow for subletting or lending for other purposes to entities other than the purpose specified in the agreement. There were additionally catholic schools around the appartment.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2023 08:04PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: January 08, 2023 09:50AM

There is derogatory phrase that bhaktisiddhanta used in explaining what his mission was about. He said something to the effect of "we are not here to be construction workers...".

I found this laughable and arrogant. It's basically a type of castism. He looks down on hard workers and promotes spiritual intellectualism. Yet india has some of the most crazy huge temples...

Another crazy talk from him, the great reformer and apparently determinism proponent (AKA, the philosophy of 'why even try', hence why india looks like a smoggy garbage heap and stinks of fresh shit. Dont reform a thing!:

“The world stands in no need of any reformer. The world has a very competent
person for guiding its minutest happenings. The person who determines that
there is scope for reform of the world, himself stands in need of reform. The
world goes on in its own perfect way. No person can deflect it even the
breadth of a hair from the course chalked out for it by providence. When we
perceive any change being actually effected in the course of events of this
world by the agency of any particular individual, we must know very well
that the agent possesses no real power at any stage. The agent finds himself
driven forward by a force belonging to a different category from himself. The
course of the world does not require to be changed by the agency of any person.
What is necessary is to change our outlook on this world…The scriptures
declare that it is only necessary to listen with an open mind to the name
of Krishna from the lips of a bona fide devotee. As soon as Krishna enters the
listening ear, he clears up the vision of the listener so that he no longer has
any ambition of ever acting the part of a reformer of any other person, be-
cause he finds that nobody is left without the very highest guidance. It is
therefore his own reform, by the grace of God, whose supreme necessity and
nature he is increasingly able to realize, by the eternally continuing mercy of
the Supreme Lord.”

Newsflash!!! There was a time in history when not a single humanoid knew anything about krishna or gopi bhava. Through incremental changes man made temples, religion, gods and cities. Without an attempt at reforming the past no one would be here, we'd all die during the ice age...

And my favorite... from bhaktivednata about his guru:

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura vehemently opposed the idea of constructing a temple in some quiet spot and leading a passive and uneventful life in the monastery...

Sounds like 80% of most guru's and rich devotees. And let's not forget the low class brutes—the construction workers...

Hope no one's drinking any tea, the Swami left his wife for that then supported her as a sanyasi with ISKCON funds till the day he claimed he was poisoned.

Run from this phenomenal clown act and don't look back. You'll be better off than the cave man who knew nothing about the blue boy god and still managed to live a fulfilling life.

Let's mukti bukti out of here...

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: eigenerherr ()
Date: January 08, 2023 07:07PM

Hi, I haven’t spoke. In a long time now. I grew up in SOIF, and there are many posts are a-testing to this.

Please do not punish yourself for what ultimately falls on Chris Butlers shoulders. Place the blame where it absolutely belongs. You are not responsible because you were vulnerable. If not for CB and SOIF, you would not have been caught up in their bs. You are not responsible for that. You never were. Aside from the cult leaders and their enablers, you were the victim and there is no shame in that. They took advantage of you. And I say this to everyone who isn’t Chris Butler and actively supporting him.

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