Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 04, 2022 04:03AM

Truth wins Wrote:
> No. This is not at all related to the law of
> attraction.

Sure, not all.

> When it comes to Krishna Consc, such mind blowing
> situations are created in order to get you fixed
> in your faith. Faith in the process, guru,
> krishna…

Part of the phenomenon is the interpretation of events, especially when the mind is influenced by the amalgam of narrative - MLM / partyization / consolidation of group cohesion plus hypnotic tricks also energetic - Chris Butler was known for such abilities.

> When you have not gone deep enough, it is very
> easy go fall for the tricks.

Of course, at the very top there is a sublime idea that binds and stands out for a while. Everyone talks about salvation and here the only guru talks about love for God ... Like Jesus ...

> If devotees were not constantly tricked like this,
> they would not have such great faith. They could
> leave much easier.

Why bad fruits...Tell me why Babylon...

> I am not going to let butler easily get credit for
> having the power to enslave thousands, just
> because of charsima and his lectures.

Sure. And charisma, androgynia, camera tricks, Krishna's eyes photoshoped and of course - regular legending. "A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami said he was thinking of Siddhaswarupananda all the time." Meanwhile, in A.C. Bhaktivedanta's letters, Swami writes that each of his disciples can be a pure devotee ...

Truth wins Wrote:
> The issue with devotees is that they think they
> are the MOST spiritually advanced beings on the
> planet.

Similar narratives can be found on the Internet today. Other disciples of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. He came to them in lucid dream. They consider most Vaishava no bhakti, they only have bhakti. Their followers and students say the same. You can actually feel the form of attractions. But the narrative and the style are the same. Exclusivity of implementation. Peculiarity. Another thing is that this lucid dream happened about 20 years after A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami passed away. What has happened in these 20 years? Something failed?

And of course - why many mistakes in the booklets?

> However they are many layers to this reality. And
> many levels of being conscious.

Many say that.

> Just chant and be happy.

Some sanyasis say - sadhu sanga. No just chanting. Bhakti is a gift. Jiva has a potency to receive bhakti - as they say in opposition that bhakti is in the jiva's hearts.

> They are told that in order to obtain eternal
> freedom, you have to give away your freedom.

Some sanyasis warn that in SoI there is a tendency to impose control.

> The blind faith is a great gamble as we have no
> guarantee that krishna loka and liberation is
> accurate.

Some sanyasis say that faith is necessary in the beginnings to develop own "vikanta". "Perception&understanding".

> And you must rely on another human to reach that
> destinatiom.

So suddenly not "just chant and be happy". Now another "human". Stop. Self-realized. Sadhu-sanga. Years later, it was possible to spot these inconsistencies in siddhanta in SoI / SiF.

But what a kind of "sadhu-sanga" when after 30 years you have not personally ask single one question to you guru.

"don't come close, don't ask any questions and serve with devotion"

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 04, 2022 04:23AM

Oops. I forgot to remind. Some sanyaai say that "guru kripa flows naturally". What would that mean? No need to work overnights against Gita to please only one bona fide guru???

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2022 04:24AM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 04, 2022 06:05PM

Either way, there are significant differences in the teaching of different gurus even from the same Gaudiya-Math lineage and its branches - ISCKON, SoI and outside ISKCON. Among the organizations, the shining stars of the "independent" blessed "in a lucid dream".

Bad fruit.

When it comes to A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, there are also differences in mood. There is meekness, gentleness and completeness in purports to the scriptures. There are reductionisms in the conversations, it is hard to accept that women like rape etc. A different mood than the Damodara temple. Time to build a large organization, a large sect. Bad fruit again. In the absence of acceptance of some godbrothers - that the teaching is aimed at cats and dogs.

Such abbreviations are inconsistent with the overall science / teaching. God as "enjoyer". But sadhus are "atmarama". God as "source of eternal pleasure".

In turn, when you look at the fruits of Jesus Christ's teaching, the direct ones were also uninteresting. Tormenting the apostles to death. Himself crucified. Another thing is that the teaching of higher science in the viper tribe could not end well. The head of John the Baptist - the granddaughter of Herod Antipas asked for it because John the Baptist criticized the marriage of Herod Antipas of Herodias (she abandoned her first husband, her uncle).

All these half-words lead to problems.

I remember that Tusta Krishna das voiced the expectation that there would be an explosion in SoI Poland and that the sect would be huge in general. Expansionism. This means a recruitment motive if it translates into the efforts of little sheep, and not education or the right to teach one's own beliefs. What conflicts with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami and his judgment that he and disciples do what they can and the rest is in the hands of God (actually Caitanya).

Lots of bad fruit, but the world isn't colorful either. Ukraine, a lot of bad fruit with some approval from the Vatican.

And the famous scene from the Polish movie "Demons of War by Goya".

- Mr. Lieutenant, I am no good for anything ...
- Look, they are useless ... This little one prayed to God, but God did not protect him. You have to defend yourself, soldier" ..

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2022 06:11PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 04, 2022 06:42PM


Subtleties. In this scene, when the highlanders start shooting at the "peacekeepers" precisely because they have the signs of "peacekeepers", when the rescue arrives on the BRDM-2, a trained eye will see that the turrets with heavy large-caliber machine guns are turned towards the attackers. But they don't fire those heavy machine guns. Why?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2022 06:51PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 04, 2022 06:58PM



"I Am that I Am" is a common English translation of the Hebrew phrase [..] (’ehye ’aser ’ehye; pronounced [..])– also "I am who I am", "I will become what I choose to become", "I am what I am", "I will be what I will be", "I create what(ever) I create", or "I am the Existing One".[1] The traditional English translation within Judaism favors "I will be what I will be" because there is no present tense of the verb "to be" in the Hebrew language.

"Sat" and "Cit". No "Ananda", no "Vigraha". However "aser"...

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 04, 2022 07:10PM

SoI could be a good sect. But the motoring of the psyche of the Hawaiian coterie, with the general American hegemonic and wealth-driven tendencies, the convenience towards Christ-religiously educated Poles living in poverty facilitating the passage through the eye of a needle, learning and working humbly, would require great introspection and self-control or deep realization. .

And that was too much. Papa Delfin's narratives can be massacred in minutes. Hence the cards at the lectures because he doesn't like tricky questions.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 04, 2022 10:10PM

Of course, there are various verses relating to the foundations of the creation of the material world in the Bhagavatam, but the relevant to "enjoyer" in this context is one where the material creation is referred to come from renunciation.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2022 10:15PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: May 07, 2022 01:14AM

Nice Kirtan dasi's webinar:


"Wind of Forgiveness"


I would say:

"Fog of denial, duplicity and hypocrisy. Clouds of worries of the wronged. Thunders of reminders. Rain of tears of the victims. Hails of accusations. And lightning bolts of punishment."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2022 01:24AM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: May 10, 2022 09:48PM

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: May 13, 2022 01:46AM

Utimately the lessons I got from the cult are very valuable and humbling.
I will always be grateful to the forces that truly care about me for getting me out and for protecting me from going back.
I think that the new agers will love the Iskcon and SoI devotees. As they say that we have to love the demons.
The Sadomasochistic, codependent relation between humans and gods is nothing new.
The Iskcon and SOI are not like roaches that fear light or run away when they see humans. They are more like an ant infestation.
They exist because thousands enjoy that mellow of being used and abused. Paralized by fear.
And they are rewarded for accepting torture with humility and love.
I hope that every soul will one day value themselves enough not to stand for this BS.
Trying to protect one from guru and gods is one thing, but to try and protect one from themselves is another.
bhakti teaches you that you can only happy when you forget about your own happiness. Just focus on what makes krishna happy.
Maybe krishna’s happiness comes from seeing some souls suffer and glorify him in their suffering.
If such relation to any deity is something humans find attractive and noble, like the story job, there is no hope I would say.
I will protect myself from those who have blind faith. I dread those who want to sell abuse as love, much more than demons.
If I have to be thankful for one single thing in my life, is to have been saved from the hands of a false messiah.
No matter how much I will have to suffer in this lifetime, nothing would have been more catastrophic than let this lunatic put a spiritual slave name on me.

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