Ok. So I have some interesting news. The twitter account of the journalist who wrote meanwhile in Hawaii has been deleted.
Why? I suspect it is because of the 9 pages kitchen rules that without any doubts proves that this false idol is an abusive lunatic.
Imagine their distress when they found out about it. Oh poor soldiers of lord chaitanya. The demons have rained on your heavenly parade of lies and illusions.
The world was so rainbow and unicorns before the internet when they could lie about pretty much everything.
Oh no! We the demons are destroying lord chaitanya’s mission that seems to be a net for free labor.
I hope she decided to delete her account and that it was not an SoI coercion.
I hope she is not in legal trouble.
Breaks my heart that total strangers like her and Henri care more about abused devotees than devotees themselves. I will certainly not let her take any bullets from them.
Poor guys. They must spend their whole life hiding their crap like cats in a litter box. What kind of bhakti yoga is this?
First they had to cater to the craziness of the primadonna impure devotees for decades. Now they must protect their reputation and hide their disorders from the world.
They will spend their whole lives protecting a narcissist false idol.
Sorry SoI criminals, you cannot stop the Tsunami that Ranson started.
You close a door, we will open 5000 more gates. Enjoy the very late karma that is coming your way.
It is like a horror movie that we have to witness butler’s deception through tulsi.
Imagine when one day this hypocrite sits in the white house. I truly hope that I will be dead by then.
I just do not get it how she keeps a straight face lying that much about censorship. They effing banned a person for 3 years for just being a bit disobedient. How do they dare speak of freedom of expression?
The fact that there are only a few suicides in SoI is a miracle in itself.
I got overly emotional over the judgment. But I am fine now.
Exposing spiritual abuse and evil is much more important than getting offended.

Hi Fohr. Welcome to the butler vortex. Nice to have you in here.
Glad to see you are feeling more normal.
How do devotees lose the sense of self?
I personally was thrown into it so hard, I will never understand.
And in all honesty nothing in life will ever compare to the happiness I got from relating to Krishna.
I would get up at 5 the same way a mother should be pleased to go through austerities for her baby. Noone forced me. It was my own desire and sincerity.
If not for the abuse of the SoI, I would have left this world thinking the vishnuduttas are coming to take me home.
I would love to meet more devotees who do mushrooms in Tulum. But this would be an episode of the twighlight zone.
I think that one can relate to krishna in mamy ways. The bhakti yoga makes you believe that if you want to feel embraced by god, you have to go so low that you are invisible.
It is a spirituality that encourages self loathing.
And to walk on offenses eggshells day and night guided by some fake pedo, narcissist, lunatic gurus (since genuine ones are all dead apparently).
The other way is to be relaxed like the inhabitants of Vrindavan. No pressure, fear… No middlemen.
Kind of a bit like Sunnis versus Shiites.
Or some christians that crucify themselves in the philippines.
I do not know who are the beings that hide behind the worship and what they look like. I know 100000 percent that there is a “supernatural” force that is involved.
I do not know what the agenda is and I have zero trust in anything to be
The fact that humans are kept in so much illusion, confusion and darkness is imho by design.
Religions become a bandaid. And we put all our trust in those deities (be it allah, jesus, krishna…).
All religions install a degree of fear in humans like the government.
And we all know that fear is meant to control and keep us small.
I have found that being self reliant, self sufficient, self accepting is by far more rewarding than the bliss I felt when I was a devotee.
So dependent on other devotees, their acceptance, the desire to please an imperfect human (I thought was jesus returned)…
We have all been fooled and thrown into a Truman show and doubt we will ever find out the whole truth.
So for now all we have are different scriptures, alien theories, gnosticism…
But I doubt that we will ever know who runs this westworld reality.
Better do mushrooms and peyote in tulum and read the stories of casteneda.
Much more rewarding than washing butler’s toilets.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What kind of
> bhakti yoga is this?

Workalot of Chantalot already explained it to the dwarf...

> Sorry SoI criminals, you cannot stop the Tsunami
> that Ranson started.
> You close a door, we will open 5000 more gates.

> Imagine when one day this hypocrite sits in the
> white house. I truly hope that I will be dead by
> then.

In a symbolic sense, she plays the role of Ravana - the screamer daemon. And Rama Ranson started the fight ... And we are monkey army ...

"And to walk on offenses eggshells day and night"

I think this can go overboard even when the leaders are not abusing their power and there is nothing obviously illegal going on.

Being so frightened to say the wrong thing or speak at all, even when you are respectful and speaking to your current level of realization. Not the behavior of an adult to think of oneself as lower than a donkey, or to be so childish that they cannot fail under any circumstance (OR ELSE!). Or that they will always fail, and that is why they need such constant guidance of seniors and Guru.

Self-reliance taken too far makes you into a lone wolf without relationships. Self-reliance in the other direction makes you helpless and lost.

Most devotees aren't this helpless. What gives me pause is when the devotees who have a whole lot of lifetime hours in the practice exhibit it.

"I think that one can relate to krishna in many ways. The bhakti yoga makes you believe that if you want to feel embraced by god, you have to go so low that you are invisible.
It is a spirituality that encourages self loathing."

Agree. It makes for great sevaks, and it could counteract the inflated ego of the archetypal Westerner, but without a healthy floor... you can descend way too far.

I'm interested in these (relatively) softer effects on the psyche, that could be overlooked because they are not overt sexual abuse, financial mismanagement, or violent crime. It's obviously not soft or trivial because grown adults are acting in such and such way. If you can find it in Poland, America, Canada, Latin America, Russia, Australia... across mathas and decades... it's something core to the way we are practicing Gaudiya Vaisnavism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2022 07:59AM by Fohr.

Gralow's account was closed likely due to her needing a break from Twitter or that she violated some rules on there. Lord knows she and the rest of the world needs a fucking break from Twitter. Tulsi Gabbard sure does, She spends half of the time on there spreading misinformation and divisive dribble. Luckily most of the comments on those posts are filled with people who see right through her shitshow performance/Stepford wife act.

Fohr, there are many insightful devotees who are obviously good people. I come mainly form the angle of what is the core ideology and what is it's functional expression and final offering. Do we have a practical example of that? I am not talking about some swami/guru who was born and raised form birth in the general social/religious structure of these cults—your Puri Maharaja's and other stalwart practitioners who are FAR from anything you see nowadays. But it begs the question, how much of the way they lived their life and what they said and believed is applicable, sustainable if one is not literally born into such a dogmatic system of through?

Anyone both materialistic, atheistic or devotee can admit and see there is some wisdom in scriptures, be that Gita or the bible or whatever. Many of the basic concepts are not the issue. The issues arise more in notions of surrender, self-abnigation, so-called purity and perfection and absolutes. And then there is the myths and their lack of historical verification and in most cases inconsistently between sciptures of assorted stories revealing quickly (not even with scholarly exposé) that such things are made by humans, imaginative or otherwise.

Many of the practices that are touted as "the golden ticket", i.e. chnat, dance, be happy—eat food offered to god etc—these are present in most religious institutions. So really the details are what is being explored by me. Not the fact that it's fun to chant with people and play drums and guitar. Gospel music is wonderful, so id Islmic devotional chnats and the poetry of Rumi and Jayadev etc. It's the fundamental offering of the chaitanya saint that is in question. Where is it scripturally revealed and promoted? Nowhere. The chanting of the Mahamantra and radha diety—again, few if any mentions in any reputable script. So what is it then? A 500 year old religion akin to Mormonism? Piggybacking on "5000 year old veda!!!"? In a "unbroken chain of spiritual masters!? Come on now. We all know that this is not true. Very little research needs to be done to reveal as much and show that such things are fabricated, distorted or shoehorned into a particular narrative.

Epilepsy, schizophrenia, assorted psychosis and hallucinatory states abound, no doubt. One cannot build out an entire spiritual tradition based/rooted in visions and private revelations. Well, one can, but one has to quickly hope it is otherwise pleasant enough to simply become yet another religion that has it's odd scriptures, but, "hey look! We like to chant and party!" thrown into the mix to appeal and have followers ask as few questions as possible. and that is largely what it's adhernats do. And questioning, like in all spiritual traditions, is mostly discouraged and faith is put forth as paramount and the final word is scripture no matter the lunacy we are sure to encounter every few pages.

Then, like in Butler's cult, you have a guru who is vulgar towards disciples, says off-color stuff for a chap laugh and has a history of controversy attached to him. And one can say similar things have arose in the backstories of any number of contemporary gaudiya gurus. That they were like dicatators and totalitarian in their opinions and views is marketed as "lion-like", that they are watering down the teachings or bending traditions is branded "merciful". God is naturally "all attractive" so his stealing clothins from 12 year old girls is "wonderful pastimes" only understood by the "pure devotee" etc etc. Much of the lingo of cults spans the gammut, but it is what many followers lock into. You can almost tell who is a devotee when you hear them speak: Material world, demons, karmis, pure, absolute, supreme personality etc etc. Not to mention the sanskrit/bengali lingo that is adopted as a sort of "esoteric" language that signifies a person who has been in it for a long time so they must be "advanced". I have known several such advanced souls who are shooting heroin at night and having sex with other men's wives and giving beautiful lectures in the morning after doing puja.

I think it is natural that modern practitioners are going to need a bit more than "chant and it will all be revealed!". Most 20-40 year devotees are aware that the "mantra" only works if given by a pure guru. They know that there are all manner of "offenses" one can commit and the mantra loses it's potency or even has the opposite effect. Eventually, one is left with the feeling that there is little one can do to get "grace" except just show that they "believe". But believe in what exactly? That when they die they will wake up in the cow planet goloka and be at peace? Or that they will take birth again and again as long as they can serve the servant of the servant forever and they don't even care about going "back home"? What is the actual goal and is there a systematic and practical way that it is achieved? We understand it is a descending process, but then why even try or hope or do better or feel bad when you "slip"? It's neither here nor there what you do. You are not the doer. So it is by gods grace that one goes home. Shradha is the key...

Well, I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky... now what?

Has anyone read this book?: [en.wikipedia.org]

A brilliant read and explains or theorizes a lot about consciousness and the evolution of how scriptural texts originated in a time before consciousness was fully formed in humans as it expresses itself in contemporary times. It's an interesting idea and I enjoyed it.

My instincts tell me that her account is possibly related to SoI.
Until I hear her version, in case she answers, I have to consider that possibility.
Then 9 pages kitchen rules is the greatest proof that devotees are being treated like slaves. And that there is a huge psychosis going on.
But thankfully you have that list too. I did not take shots of it unfortunately.
Noone and nothing can break the deep trance of the SoI devotees.
They will never be able to see the insanity because they are CONVINCED that butler is perfect in everything he does.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Nothing phases them. I mean if they have put up with that lunacy for 40 years, there is no hope to reverse the damage.
The veil that covers their eyes is too thick.
This is the fate that had been traced for me too. I will never know what benevolent force actually gave me the courage to put a stop to accepting abuse.
I have to give it to 2 disciples I will not name. They came, saw, stood up for some devotees and were banned from coming to our retreats.
This is how totalitarian our center was.
They have turned this process into a business transaction. And there is no limit as to how much you give. And who cares if your body falls apart.
There is no way anybody can think clear with that level of fear. And the fear is the one of losing krishna, guru, losing the opportunity to ho home, have your spiritual life ruined.
Nothing makes me more sick when butler refers to himself as “the devotee of krishna”. That judging him will end it for you. That he is beyond judgment…
I feel sorry for all the self inducing suffering and fear I exposed myself to.
I have seen so many devotees cry for the smallest things they considered to be dipleasing. Always in distress of getting punished.
SoI is bhakti yoga psych. torture chambers.
Banning a mother for 3 years and try to turn her own kid against her.
Yet she returns and feels closer to krishna because now she is that low straw that everybody can take a pee on.
Yes it is quite a beautiful masochistic way to relate to god.
Krishna consc. trains devotees to be like obedient dogs. Because let us be honest, that loving servant title does not fool me.
We acted like good behaved dogs and were treated like dogs.
Oh man when it comes to kirtans. So mamy years of being limited to butler, midgett… only their kirtans.
All others lowly bastards who chant the maha mantra have no effect on your heart.
What a load of useless crap. How could I even fall for that insanity for so long?

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fohr, there are many insightful devotees who are
> obviously good people. I come mainly form the
> angle of what is the core ideology and what is
> it's functional expression and final offering. Do
> we have a practical example of that?

[www.youtube.com]

Here - a self-describing example - through the name of the team. OM Gang & Friends. "OM" - academically evaluating - somewhat pantheistic, Vedantic - impersonalizing. Gang - A criminal group that reaps profits. "Friends" - naive sheep.

Elder Vishnu das with his wife (ultimate gentleness) and friends. Blues-rock or whatever.


> Then, like in Butler's cult, you have a guru who
> is vulgar towards disciples, says off-color stuff
> for a chap laugh and has a history of controversy
> attached to him.

And in the same time:
[www.facebook.com]

Mr. Midgett - "don't waste your life on pseudo spirituality"

and another methodical deception:

[www.facebook.com]

"True spirituality should result in a mild temper, happiness and peace."

Well, probably not at the Battle of Kuruksetra ....

And not in a cult center with awakened from sleep Lord Valdemaar "if someone does not silence this kid, i will suffocate him with these hands"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2022 12:50AM by Culthusiast.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They came, saw, stood up for some devotees and
> were banned from coming to our retreats.

Sure, they also have recruitment material on forgiveness:

[www.facebook.com]

"Forgiveness, the path to freedom"

When there was a tendency in general, an atmosphere of non-forgiveness. Filing. If someone made a blunder and was doomed by the leaders - it took years. Pinned patch. Which in itself is amazing to recall that C. Butler sold the temple without the consent of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. What was forgiven. Anyone who would sell the center without the leader's approval would be burned at the stake.

> All others lowly bastards who chant the maha
> mantra have no effect on your heart.

Then why are they suggesting you to focus more and more during your japa on pastimes? From 99% to 99.99% and further ...Schizophrenia???

> What a load of useless crap. How could I even fall
> for that insanity for so long?

Yes, that's a good mantra. Others have already chanted it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2022 01:19AM by Culthusiast.

It is not that complicated. If the gods of religions turly exist, they want us to be subordinate.
If one has a dog, they will expect the dog to act like a dog and not take owner the whole house. Unless they are weak owners.
Krishna just happens to be the most demanding of the deities. Or at least this is how Iskcon introduced him to the western world.
You must always think of him day and night, serve him, chant his names, love him…
I guess mega narcissism is very accepted if you are god.
Same way that everything krishna does is considered perfect, everything guru does is considered perfect. If guru is germaphobe it is perfect. If I am one, I must go to the psych. If guru wastes money it is ok. If he swears it is ok.
Because he has a free pass like his master.
And we are lowly “humans” who are considered the demons who got envious of god.
We have either been fooled to give our worship and power away or this is as good as it gets and we must accept being obedient.
It does not truly make sense why you would create beings to serve and worship you?
So are we to accept that the North Korea SoI system is what it takes to reform us so that we are the obedient dogs that Krishna wants us to be?
I guess it is quite a depressing idea. Lol!
I can no longer blindly accept what scriptures tell me. And blind faith is the only way one can accept this system of reincarceration.
It is just cruel to keep punishing souls because they do not accept you as the SUPREME and master of the universe. Free will? My foot!
I used to drink it all up but now it makes me cringe.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So are we to accept that the North Korea SoI
> system is what it takes to reform us so that we
> are the obedient dogs that Krishna wants us to be?
> I guess it is quite a depressing idea. Lol!
> I can no longer blindly accept what scriptures
> tell me. And blind faith is the only way one can
> accept this system of reincarceration.
> It is just cruel to keep punishing souls because
> they do not accept you as the SUPREME and master
> of the universe. Free will? My foot!
> I used to drink it all up but now it makes me
> cringe.

Crucial point/aspect.

Coming back to Vedanta - guna's theory that's the crucial point - that is rajasic-tamasic concept of relation with God. Power.Control. Not love. Not even isvaria. Far away from madhurya.

This shows what the atmosphere in SoI is saturated with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2022 02:21AM by Culthusiast.