Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Frozen Nick91 ()
Date: January 21, 2022 06:10AM

@ Culthusiast

Just saw that you also wanted to know something about Advaita. Long story, gonna try to make it short.
It was established by Adi Shankaracharaya ( approx. 7,8thCE but it is controversial) and he also founded a monastic order which exists in clear lineage til today. It is monistic and it is also known as the path of jnana (knowledge). Bhakti can also be practised but is not emphasised as the main path of realisation. It has strong ties to tantric traditions and shaivism, which is often more pantheistic. There are also influences of Buddhist thinking. It is always important to keep in mind that every great Indian thinker established doctrines which served the needs of the times they were living in. Adi Shankara was a worshipper of the holy mother and shiva but he emphasised an impersonal, non-theistic path to realisation. At his lifetime Buddhism was strong in India and the Hindus were involved in blind worshipping, forgetting the essence of the philosophy of their scriptures. Shankara wanted to remind the Hindus of the final goal of their worshipping and contributed to Buddhism becoming weak in India. Therefor Shankaracharya wrote the first commentaries on the Shrutis (again Brahma Sutras, Upanishads, Bhagavad-Gita only - not the puranas, the are not even vedic!). He tried to formulate the philosophical essence of the scriptures. In his ways the all pervading Brahman, as mentioned in the Upanishads, is an underlying substratum in the universe. It can be realized by every human being, since it also pervades us and we wouldn't exist without it. The identification with this vast universal consciousness leads to liberation and the end of the rebirth circle. Atman ( eternal soul) realises that it is Para-Atman or Brahman ( Eternal universal consciousness). It is not becoming a part of it ( would imply dualism as in dvaita). Atman is realising that it is already Brahman, in fact. A non-dual ontology. When I read 'aham brahmasmi' (I am Brahman) on thew website of Canadian Butler groups, I really wonder, since they preach dualism. They are not having any clue and just picking anything to satisfy anyone. But it is not a buffet where you can pick what suits you best and make your own religion out of it.

Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2022 06:32AM by Frozen Nick91.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: January 21, 2022 06:29AM

Truly sorry Frozen Nick and thanks for being honest.
I hope that my wasting so much time in here speaking of the supernatural does not just end with the conclusion that:
These are just my experiences and they do not serve anybody else.
I have had some minor experiences with the deities of abrahamic religions.
Everyhing just went next level as soon as I started chanting the maha mantra and engage in this process.
I had a person message me recently and confirm he felt the same way when he envountered these dieties. He is a quite spiritually mature person.
I did not just put my head out of the egg. I have been exposed to quite a bit of spiritual experiences since I was a child.
I do not just find pleasure in saying that in my experience the path of bhakti yoga is the most supernatural one I have ever encountered.
Noone is going to pay me for the promo.
And I know for a fact that most people who get hooked, have some kind of supernatural (small or big) phenom that happens.
Why are so many devotees from other paths such as christianity, judaism, islam, buddhism…?
What have they found in krishna that was not present in Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, Buddha?
Do you seriously think that people accept so many austerities for nothing?
It is quite sad that some only have negative and crappy experiences. That they have not one single event that makes them believe the path is not 100 percent
If people have so much faith, it is because they have been shown something extraordinary at one point or the other.
When it comes to butler, there is also that transcendental aspect that plays a huge role.
Him entering the dreams of people and answer some questions they have. (the guru entering dreams like that was told to me by disciples of much more qualified bhakti gurus).
The very firm confirmation from within that he is the real deal.
Many synchrnonicities that are mind blowing when it comes to his recorded lectures.
How so many think he is directly speaking to them. That has happened to me many times and it is a known fact.
The supernatural is very common in that group and eveybody knows about the
“honeymoon phase”.
When one starts to chant, the deities make themselves much more attractive.
The blind faith of devotees in krishna and guru did not just happen.
It is the result of the EXTRA ordinary aspect of the path.
I do not agree either that those experiences are only valid for the experiencers.
People love to hear about NDEs. Et abductions, divine interventions…
The NDE stories of some have given solace to many.
The mother mary apparition in Portugal (fatima) caught the interest of the whole world.
Everybody (unless they are just robbots) is looking for answers and pieces of the puzzle.
Is it totally useless for me to look at different aspects of bhakti yoga?
I am just going much deeper and try to explain the pull that this path can have on some people.
Once again not speaking of those who were born into it or dragged into it.
I try to also warn others not to automatically fall for the mystical tricks.
The transcendental nature of the relation with deities and the guru is very real.
It may be a game but it is very real for many.
butler may truly be convinced that he is not ordinary. Who knows what stuff he experiences to make him believe he is who he thinks he is.
If I am so powerful that I can produce all these events, too bad I am not in the Xmen series.
It is a unfair if I just sit here and make all the devotees on the planet pass for lunatics.
If we say that the path is totally bogus and there is nothing transcendental about it, devotees can very easily pass for mindless schizophrenics. Right?
A bunch of losers who blindly worship a blue god and blindly bow down to a guru 24/7. And a bunch of people that enjoy abuse and austerity.
Just feeding themselves a bunch of myths.
I guarantee that most of those who are very dedicated only run on the transcendental fuel.
The mystical experiences are key in the blind faith formation of devotees.
It is what creates the faith in guru and all the incredible stories in the vedas.
Sorry if I tried to bring onto the table aspects that had not been truly discussed in here before.
Apprently it is only important and interesting to me.
Let us stick to the theory that butler has amazing mind control powers. He should be hired by the CIA.
Second theory: toenail black magic. Lol!
This butler sub has started in 2004. So many people have testified in here. Yet I am the only person who speaks of the transcendental nature of the path?
Were they trying to play it safe or have I landed from an aletrnate krishna consciousness universe?
Anyway let us end the discussion here. It serves no purpose to speak about it anymore. We are pages apart.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: RUN_FOREST_RUN ()
Date: January 21, 2022 06:34AM

I agree. More humbleness, ambiguity and wonder.

Both monistic and dualistic schools of western and eastern thought are very well documented, researched and covered in both scholarly texts and within the traditions themselves.

As far as differences in how those schools play out in a small group or cult setting, it is not really relevant. Monistic schools, while idealizing monism, obviously live and function in a very dualistic world, so, without being overly critical and analytical, they can be largely bullshit and wishful thinking.

Taoism and schools that frame the "one" as the complete representation of the eternal "two", i.e., ying yang and aspects of the one in the other, etc. This is not much unlike Brahmavidya, etc. Pantheism if one needs to be theistic about it.

Ultimately, the reality we are in is dualistic. With or without a belief in a personal god. Many monistic schools often balance the natural dualism present life, and hence unavoidable, by introducing methods like worship of assorted gods or Shaktis"/energies of the One and claim that by worshipping the many, we are worshipping the one etc.

Most strictly advaitic and dvaitic schools are never strictly one or the other as their rituals and practices at some point need to justify and acknowledge the apparent and very real paradox present in all creation: It is both one and duel at the same time.

Hence, schools like Achintyabedhabedah arose to attempt to philosophically balance the two schools. Madhva and Nimbarka and Chaitanya were advocates of such schools, but philosophically such conundrums and paradoxes were already philosophically acknowledged in assorted schools of thought throughout the world at different times. West. East, North and South. It's a conclusion that's hard to avoid.

Generally, classic "Hinduism" is monistic and acknowledges that Brahman is the "one" that manifests as the many, hence it is able to be inclusive of deity worship since it is simply another "form" of the one. at the same time most modern day expressions of hinduism are dualistic. Hinduism has become a mostly Puranic religion in contemporary times.

Both school actually acknowledge that the "world" or what we see and sense as ephemeral as well as "ourselves" is an illusion. Ultimately Advaita does not just say the world is not real. Rather that pure consciousness is to perceive that the world is brahman, that all is brahman and hence experiencing the world as something different than brahman is the "illusion". Whereas Dvaitavada describes that this world is a type of perverted reflection of a transcendental and non-material world. I.e. the shakti is different. Here we have the material energy governed by the illusory veil that afflicts us and makes us forget our "eternal" position etc etc.

Basically, these are all theories. Theories with implications going one way or another, but the fact remains that no one really knows what it all really is. What we do and can know and be honest about is that this existence is real, it's made of particles of energy assembled into atoms that vibrate at frequencies to create the "illusion" of a solid, tangible world that we use our sense, mind and brains to interact with. In meditation, we may experience that the "I" is not really there and that all that there really is, is awareness, which we call the "I".

Fundamentally our reality, including consciousness (as a mechanism of meta self-awareness), can be explained rationally well within the construct of physics and material phenomenon. Sure, we lack the ability to "create life" as it were, but we have the general sense of how such life comes to arise and the conditions necessary for its survival and manifestation. We also know that particles behave very differently at micro and macro scales. We know that there are many galaxies and there are many stars/suns as well as planets not much unlike ours some lightyears away. We have the science to show it.

Much of dvaita and advaita is simply speculative ideas and holds no practical and functional format for living a good life. If anything it perpetuates preoccupation with that which can never be truly known and hence useless to even argue or contemplate extensively. I mean that. Many students and teachers of such schools spend much time in trying to describe and understand the two ideas and fight about it. For what? Both schools are different ways of contemplating that which can never be proved to be one way or the other.

Here is a fact: We are insignificant, meaningless, inconsequential animals hurling through space on a speck of dust we call earth. On this speck of dust that is the exact distance from the sun to maintain carbon-based lifeforms, everything that you will ever know happens. All the wars, philosophies and bullshit literally means nothing outside of the confines of our skull. Why not just enjoy the ride, be cool to each other and stop making shit up? Nothing at all cares about our mystic experiences and enlightenment. Nature is often brutal without remorse and man even more so. The majority of the wars and social problems on this blue dot in the vastness of space has been caused by fanatical religious nuts. Men have died in useless wars, women have been demeaned and children have been raped and their heads filled with garbage in the name of "god". Butler capitalizes on human existential dread. That is his target audience. And instead of minding his own business and surfing or playing with tinfoil or whatever he does, he has made a literal business out of bullshitting people that he is Jagad Guru. The only place he is Jagad Guru is in his shriveling raisin brain.

And for the record, rational thought and adherence to the scientific method is not about it being superior or better or even the result of all the best ideas in the world. It's simply a process that is honest in understanding and accepting what we CAN know and what we CANNOT know. And that which we cannot know, we relegate to the realm of philosophy so as to try to explain things theoretically, for those who care to do that.

Rationalism is present even in the most insane dogmas. It's the part that helps "sell" the dogma that is within the realm of rational thought, hence appealing. But on the coat tail of that rationalism, religions often introduce many irrational ideas.

For example, I referred to a lecture of Butler's some time back where he had presented an article from the 80s that discussed a scientific discovery of so-called people living without brains. The way Butler presented it was that since the people had no brains, this was proof that the brain is not the "seat of consciousness" of that "life/consciousness" is not dependent on the brain. This was of course absolute bullshit and no such thing existed as conscious people without brains. Instead, what the facts were is that a very rare brain deformity results in cerebral fluid squashing the brain into a thinned out cavity. The disorder causes lifelong problems, patients often do not life very long and while they have the ability to learn and live for some time, they suffer many physical problems due to the condition. This was all mentioned in the actual article. and Butler did this all the time, but this example stood out to me as a kid because I believed it for years. Yet butler tried using this "rational" "science" to convince his followers that consciousness is in fact not dependent on the brain.

Prabhupada did similar things to try to appeal to rational thought only to say some of the most outlandish things. His view for why the sun was closer to the earth than the moon was because the days of the week start on Sunday... He proposed that the moon was a self-luminous planet much larger than the sun.

I think the main point is that reason/logic/rational thought is something that should be developed, nurtured and given priority in all instances of intellectual pursuits, be they material or "spiritual", because if one thing is very likely than it is that a god gave us such ability to navigate this existence for a reason. If you believe in god. If you don't, than it's literally the only thing we have to make sure we don't fall into idiotic rhetoric in dogmatic ideology.

A good chunk of mans time on earth was spent in trying to make sense of the world around him and himself. Now, we may not know everything, but we sure as shit know more than we did. No collectively. Obviously, everything we know happened incrementally. But alas, in the last several hundred years we have some to know quite a bit in a short period of time. Much of that due 100% to rational and logical frameworks of thinking that challenged the very archaic views that stopped us from progressing in many ways. I'd rather acknowledge that and respect and remain attuned to that forward-flowing idea rather than "look back" to the ancients and think we are going to get some relevant news. It's relevant, sure. But it's not solved or resulted in anything profound as far as understanding who we are and what we are doing here. Rational thought has perhaps not done that either, but it has given us much purpose, meaning and authentic curiosity, wonder and creativity beyond anything ever done.

When I left gurukula years ago, I quickly realized I was a goddamn dumbass. And not in a "I'm feeling humble today" kind of way. I felt I had been cheated, my mind filled with useless garbage ideas that helped me in no way to better my life, be a better person and stay curious and hungry with wonder. Instead, I grew into a jaded devotee that knew that all gay people were experiencing an "identity crisis", the sun was pulled by a giant chariot and snakes were poisonous cause lord shiva dropped some amrita on them. I thought the only books worth reading and the true document of history were books written by an elephant with his tusk. I thought that Prabhupada and Butler and the other gurus I follower were the only teachers worth listening to. I not only thought it. I was proud and thought I was one of the "lucky ones". Even when things did not add up I quickly chalked it up to 'being in maya" and my "false ego" and envy (not sure of what) and pride. When I chnated insistently and did my services but still felt anger, frustration or confusion I prayed and wrote vyasa puja offerings stating firmly that I was a lowly worm in stool and would gladly be a as such lifetime after lifetime till the devotees were pleased with me. Then the anxiety, depression, anger and dread started. I tried to "rationalize" my mind literally screaming that all this stuff I grew up with was total bullshit. I plastered tilak all over my body, chanted my gayatri, and 16 rounds, served the deities and read the books. Nada. Nothing happened. Years passed. I saw serious devotees "blooping" left and right. I saw guru's getting angry, admonishing their devotees for chanting with other devotee groups etc etc. It was a vortex. You did not even have to live in the ashram at a certain point to be fairly wedged in the cultish mindset. It followed and defined who you were, what you talked about and how you viewed the world. Science was demonic, logic and reason were "puffed up", feelings and emotions were "false ego". Bad days were chalked up to "bad karma" and "lack of sukriti". And all you got as an answer to your predicament was "keep chanting! Surrender more! Serve more! Give more! You must be making offenses! You took diksha from the wrong guru! You are chanting too much! Quality over quantity! Pray and you will get the answer!... And no such answers came. Crickets.

Only so much idiocy the mind can handle. At least my mind. I looked at it all one day and had the biggest realization of my life: This is all a big steaming pile of bullshit!

It was like experiencing nirvana. The most "mystical" thing I had ever experienced. It's difficult to describe my mystical experience with anyone still in this cult. They look at me like I am crazy.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Frozen Nick91 ()
Date: January 21, 2022 06:38AM

@ Truth Wins I didn't write that I had only Christian experiences. My experiences also involved deities of the all the paths I decided to follow. I believe that your experiences were real and strong, but mine were as well.

Sorry that I cannot help you or be a friend for you here. But sorry to say - this also just proofs for me the individuality of the experience. We are all biased in our perception and references of the world and even if you find somebody else who can better relate to your supranational experiences, you will never find out how close it was to what you mean or try to proof. That's why scriptures are written in riddles and as abstract as possible. So it can serve anyone on any path with any mind set.

And when it comes again to your claim about the exceptional role of this path: do you know all the paths? Bhaktivedanta and Butler represent 0.1% of what is out there. You have no ground on saying that, since you only followed this path, and you are scared to lose the importance of your experience you claim that only this path provides it. But you can not know that. It is like saying 'all people with red hair are liars' - can you say that, before you know every red hair person? It is a discriminatory and vain way of thinking. And that's also why I didn't answer you for such a long time, because it is just annoying, because it represent exactly this superior-holiness mentality of all ISCKON followers. I don't wanna be offensive but it is really enough to ponder on this. Exceptionalism in thinking and assessing the world is what makes as losing blood over religion and world views. And I understand if you had very traumatic experiences, but I just cannot accept this normativity. What is also the purpose for this forum to further ponder about it?

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2022 07:08AM by Frozen Nick91.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 21, 2022 09:52PM

> Bhaktivinode also used his connections in politics
> and background in education to send some of his
> writings to intelligencia and scholars in western
> universities.

Thank you for a very good post. Regarding the issue of political commitment, it is worth emphasizing that India was under British rule. So in this sense there must have been a dualism in the life of Bhaktivinode Thakur. Accepting the fact that he followed a process chosen or shaped by himself, and at the same time had to take part in tasks in a physical reality. To earn a living and at the same time to one way or another promote traditional or modified versions of religion, etc.

It is understandable that the present was a hostile, opposite trend, i.e. the occupant's task was to present the systems of Indian philosophy as pagan, which would, in a way, justify robbery. Smaller, dumber, weaker, possessed. So there are, as it were, two sides.


> Bhaktivedanta, Disciple of Bhaktisiddhanta came to
> the west during the pinnacle of political upheaval
> and created his ISKCON cult. The swamis focal
> preaching efforts involved a desire to establish a
> vibrant governance centered around the so-called
> vedic Varnashram system. Culturally known as the
> Caste System, a generally failed and well-abused
> format for social order and structure that has
> failed India on many levels historically and
> continues to in the present day.

The topic is also longer and more complicated. It is mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita that certain senses are grouped around the minds. Develop it for other plans - let's say the unity of body and mind, it must be a coherent, stable system. Its mapping may be partially contained in the genetic code. So assuming that the socially adjusted division of sudra, vaysa, ksatria, brahman encoded in the genes would give personal and social stability (division of social tasks) - hence the reluctance or prohibition of intermingling of these castes.

Nevertheless, it must be borne in mind then that the world is diverse. The living conditions are different. Subtropical, temperate, polar climate. The specialization of the tasks and the associated weights may be different. Different proportions.

Given the freedom of pairing now in the present Western world, it can be assumed that some gene mixing is taking place. This does not always lead to averaging and combination. Enclavization in Western Europe. Or a partial connection versus a partial separation - an example can be the legend of the Russian princes Rurik, allegedly the Vikings. Accepted locally in today's Russia, they were to bring order and mingled with the Slavs who also lived together with the Finno-Ugric (Finns). And finally these Vikings joined the Slavs but not the Finns.

On a personal level, if someone analyzes their personality, compares them with their ancestors, their outgrowth, social place, profession, family life, it turns out that there is a clear impact on the entirety of their own personality, expressed, for example, in specific professional, social or social attractions. geographic attraction, etc.

Nevertheless - simple schematism - tracing paper from India - cannot work with such a mixture. It would be utopian.

> Butler started the Independents for a Godly
> Government which has been extensively covered on
> this forum and here as well:
> It involved "pure deovtee" Katyayani and William
> Peneroza, old Butler devbots and also disciples of
> Bhaktivedanta.

Controversies related to the political involvement of Chris Butler, SIF etc. for me are as follows. First of all, it was a mystery to most, it was kept secret. If I had such knowledge, I would not have assumed the authority of Chris Butler, nor would I be a member of the SIF. I did not know about the existence of the IGG party until 2017 or 2016. Moreover, some of the important leaders in Poland in the 90s said that politics was a "dark forest". Was it also hidden from them? For this blind adoration for Tulsi Gabbard, the sheep's rush is the quintessence of stupor and the feeling of belonging to a group in the pursuit of power. What is the authority for? Does the group have something to give to the world if there is still divorce, betrayal and so on? In addition, ignoring and relativizing support for a multi abortion clinic or taking subsidies (small but still).

It is impossible to act in politics without compromise and agreements. This means that anyone who professes or adheres to an orthodox hard system of values, behavior, culture, etc., will have to be influenced and contradicted by his ideals or patterns.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2022 10:18PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 21, 2022 10:00PM

Frozen Nick91 Wrote:
> Most Vaishnava groups count themselves
> under the Dvaita doctrine, since it talks about
> Vishnu as the Supreme deity. It was established
> approx. 500 years after Advaita (by philosopher
> Madhvacharaya) as an anti - advaitic
> interpretation of the Vedanta scriptures. This
> means the Brahma Sutras, the Upanishads and the
> Bhagavad-Gita - only.

Thank You for the comment.

Commenting, in SIF Polska and off-springs all Indian scriptures are referred to as "Veda".Discussion on these topics requires precision. There is no such precision of SIF Poland. Mixing Hatha Yoga, Yoga, Vedanta, Jesus, Yoga-Nidra etc. Recruitment motivation.

> Dvaita school of thought
> claims that the human soul is eternally individual
> and can never become one with God, because it is
> fundamentally different from God. The soul is
> eternally dependent on God and will only gain
> relief by complete acknowledgment of God as the
> Supreme. Then the soul can serve God in
> eternity.

This is the essential difference - sinking into Brahman versus realizing being part of the all-pervading Brahman.

Frozen Nick91 Wrote:
> @ Culthusiast
> The identification
> with this vast universal consciousness leads to
> liberation and the end of the rebirth circle.

SIF teaching or Chris Butler teachig was - end of the rebirt cycle but not forever. Back to Viraja river? Looking at both dimensions? Material and spiritual? Another choice? In the position of tatastha-shakti again? What about "constitutional necessity".

> Atman ( eternal soul) realises that it is
> Para-Atman or Brahman ( Eternal universal
> consciousness). It is not becoming a part of it (
> would imply dualism as in dvaita). Atman is
> realising that it is already Brahman, in fact. A
> non-dual ontology. When I read 'aham brahmasmi' (I
> am Brahman) on thew website of Canadian Butler
> groups, I really wonder, since they preach
> dualism. They are not having any clue and just
> picking anything to satisfy anyone. But it is not
> a buffet where you can pick what suits you best
> and make your own religion out of it.

No precission.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2022 10:06PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 21, 2022 10:17PM

Truth wins Wrote:
> The supernatural is very common in that group and
> eveybody knows about the
> “honeymoon phase”.

You can clarify a few things here. People were drawn to deeper spirituality. The idea of love for God, transcendence. Limitations of Christian Doctrine, Limited Resource of the Bible. Enthusiasm. This was followed by learning about knowledge, incidents, etc.

It is significant that the gurus and leaders used a system of motivation and management that was shaped in Hawaii after leaving Iskcon. Trained on and by ex-drug addicts or transdencentalists who have used LSD. To what extent their visions were narcotic visions. To what extent was the discipline tough, aimed at ignorant people living on a rich island and transferred, for example, to Poland, where the members of the SIF, previously in poverty, studied and worked politely, etc. (except famous jewellers and car-traders..)

Contrary to what the leaders of SIF claimed, Chris Butler did not achieve nirvakalpa-samadhi after 64 years of practicing astanga-yoga. Unless in a time loop. According to reports or articles in the haiku meditation school, it was 2 years before I met A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.

To sum up: after the infatuation stage the mismatched as someone called "naimittika-dharma" - detailed instructions - plus the Hawaiian mentality must have generated rebellions.

Plus the theory of doubles. If you look closely at one of the YouTube videos, Chris Butler, the alleged Chris Butler, is to host the kirtan there. He picks up the guitar, but the body language and gestures show as if he can't find himself, doesn't know what to do, discomfort. This runs counter to the image of an ambitious young guru, presidential candidate, with a clearly defined recruitment motiv

> Second theory: toenail black magic. Lol!

This is what it looks like. Besides, every way is good. Nails (shamanism, black magic), MLM, conscious loving, politicization through saving the world (no nation, no religion ...) ...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2022 10:20PM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: January 21, 2022 11:13PM

Culthusiast what are the suspicious actions, reported abilities…
Are those just rumors or facts?
Please elaborate if possible.
I have a hard time buying this one. Even though at this point nothing will surprise me.
I remember when we thought we were saving the world by spraying maha water on the gatherings food.
Or the sense of being some kind of undercover spiritual agent when you helped a dying relative cross over. Oh that infamous maha water!
We sure meant well. Lol! I miss those belief fantasy land days.
The followers are already convinced he is blessed with all the Siddhis.
Why would they attribute it to magic?

“Masochism can never lead to spiritual perfection. The body is actually a most precious property of the self; it enables the self to engage in various devotional activities that can bring about a change in consciousness”.
chris butler

What a joke. What do you call the action of not being able to use the washroom for 10 hours because you are at the house of one of the pure devotees?
Unfortunately it takes some level of masochism in order to accept this.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Culthusiast ()
Date: January 22, 2022 12:30AM

Truth wins Wrote:
> Culthusiast what are the suspicious actions,
> reported abilities…
> Are those just rumors or facts?

Read the Forum. There are mentions. Chris Butler was said to have the ability to hypnotize, and people confirmed attempts at hypnotic sessions - during or just after the Haiku Meditation School. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami was to forbid him any practice that was not part of Vedanta. Ask for details.

From the Polish realities - reports of several suicide forced events are known. One suicide in retreate. A breakdown and a deadly obsession in a mental hospital linked here. Clairvoyant / esoteric trying to overcome the influence of black magic (90's). Two attacks of astral suspicion, one combined (multiple methods). Two attacks that resulted in an accident at home (fall, loss of consciousness). Of course, this can be treated with a pinch of salt. Source of attacks - unknown. The circumstances, however, around the SIF.

Since cases of pedophilia have been confirmed, such things may be happening somewhere in secret.

The practice of yoga-nidra itself is suspect. Some say yoga-nidra = avidya.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2022 12:31AM by Culthusiast.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 22, 2022 01:19AM

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