Hi Dawatcher, hope all is well

Mr Midgett was on the Gold Coast in the 90's when Chris Butler was there. He had left his first wife and then had a child with a woman on the Gold Coast ( never assisted with child maintenance, ignored the kid) also had an affair with another married woman while there. Chris Butler for once, stepped in and strongly advised against it.

Imagine my suprise when when gullible people praised his preaching in Poland and that he was a leader there. Chris Butler condoned it. It's like the Catholic priest who is moved on to avoid a scandal. Disciple of Kali yuga

Look how there are so many secretive activities of Chris Butler is involved in. It's not just his house address. He has never mentioned Gabbard on a online lecture, that I have ever seen. This is so these things can't be traced back to him. He acts like a mafia boss

This is the first time I've even spoken to a devotee in Poland, he divides and rules.

Dudley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Dawatcher, hope all is well

Hi Dudley, fine, and i hope all is well too.


> Mr Midgett was on the Gold Coast in the 90's when
> Chris Butler was there. He had left his first wife

Did he have a kid with his first wife?

> and then had a child with a woman on the Gold
> Coast ( never assisted with child maintenance,
> ignored the kid)


What about child support? Did he raise funds through employment?

> also had an affair with another
> married woman while there. Chris Butler for once,
> stepped in and strongly advised against it.

Did this woman's husband live with her? Did the marriage last? Were they devotees? Did it cause repercussions on her husband's part? Did they have children?

> Imagine my suprise when when gullible people
> praised his preaching in Poland and that he was a
> leader there.

The mechanism of automatic worship is duplicated. It has its drawbacks. For example, people who pose as "Mr. Midgett's friends" who were higher in the hierarchy were able to insult publicly devotees not involved in their personally run projects with the words "you are sitting in your ass again". You know, gentle Vaisnava... To the questions of brave people whether this is correct behavior, activists answered that "a devotee can be like that". Of course, if a simple lamb had behaved that way, it would have been burned at the stake. So sitting close to Mr. Midget in lectures and looking at him like a picture - works.

> Chris Butler condoned it. It's like
> the Catholic priest who is moved on to avoid a
> scandal. Disciple of Kali yuga

I have never been told this information. But I already had doubts about authority.


> Look how there are so many secretive activities of
> Chris Butler is involved in. It's not just his
> house address. He has never mentioned Gabbard on a
> online lecture, that I have ever seen. This is so
> these things can't be traced back to him. He acts
> like a mafia boss

We have to go step by step, relationship by relationship, proof by proof.

> This is the first time I've even spoken to a
> devotee in Poland, he divides and rules.

Isolationism was also felt by ordinary members of SIF Poland. Contrary to tradition, former leaders were able to discourage those willing to contact Guru directly. Why? Vishnu das coming from Hawaii was treated as at least the Grand Vizier.

Hello DaWatcher

I was wrong I have no confirmation of him having a wife/ partner prior to his Gold Coast stay. He came from California.
At the time the Katyayani vs Siddhaswarup war was going on. He changed allegiances from the Katyayani side to the Siddhaswarup side. He played the role of a fixer calling people and getting them to keep quiet about the PI school sex abuses. From memory Ss was on the Gold Coast for about two years,in the mid 90s, Midgett would have stayed no longer.

Hello Dudley,

Dudley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was wrong I have no confirmation of him having a
> wife/ partner prior to his Gold Coast stay. He
> came from California.

Thanks for the clarification. Confirmation is important. The topic of the relationship is important because, apart from the aspect of social order, there is the matter of Mr. Midgett having been and being a preacher.

I remember his lecture at the retreat in 2002 or 2003 accompanying weddings and fire sacrifice. It was a typical negative message. Young couples were given the opportunity to hear that marriage is a well of material existence and generally emphasized the negative aspects of marriage themselves. A joyful moment for devotees to go through life together.

Importantly, Facebook has recently seen posts promoting the idea of a family, e.g. the "WaiLana family". "Family is a nice and good think in spiritual life". A little late. In Poland there are relatively many lonely women devotees, very serious, who gave their lives to the service and at the moment they do not have male protection, which despite their seriousness is reflected on the psyche.

I remind you that it was said that marriage was recommended in Kali Yuga, but in practice the conviction was such (and verbalized by Tusta Krishna das) that getting married means 3 years less involvement in the service of the Guru.


> At the time the Katyayani vs Siddhaswarup war was
> going on. He changed allegiances from the
> Katyayani side to the Siddhaswarup side.

We had practically no information about the conflict between Katyayani and Siddhaswarupananda. Short brief information was that the relationship was broken. Katyayani pounded the blot and Siddhaswarupananda will no longer trust as before.

> He played
> the role of a fixer calling people and getting
> them to keep quiet about the PI school sex abuses.
> From memory Ss was on the Gold Coast for about two
> years,in the mid 90s, Midgett would have stayed no
> longer.

So this is confirmation of the element of keeping the whole group. Spiritual life is individual and you either see God's representative or not. It is not a matter of being persuaded by Mr. Midget who is and who's not God's representative. Well, of course, if it should seem to be in tune with the teachings of Siddhaswarupananda.

The question is how many cases of sexual abuse were there, was there determination to notify law enforcement agencies, whether victims were taken care of.

Other aspects:

I confirm that there have been cases of children traveling to the Philippines from Poland. The belief was created that sending kids to the Philippines, especially boys, or creating a school in Poland is a seriousness of parents. Not to common schools.

However, I do not know many negative reports about the stay of children from Poland in the Philippines. The only more significant commentary on this topic is that there were symptoms of treatment of American children better than Polish children. Transcendental vision?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2019 01:59AM by DaWatcher.

Child Abuse in the Philippines

Swarup promoted the PI schools, it was a money maker for Tapas das and co. It subsidized the local Philippine schools. I know of a case were Siddhaswarup contacted a local area representative back in the states (about an abuse case) and said. "Tapas das was offering the PI school to me, but I didn't have anything to do with the day to day running. Which is a bald face lie.

We all saw how Swarup publicly humiliated the school teachers at PI girls school when his grand daughters were not taken to the beach every second day. When it affects him he gets involved and gets angry. Anyway his granddaughters had first class treatment the whole way. They were fussed over - the royal family. So sex abuse never effect his grandchildren or his family. The Philippines devotees are aware that you don't want to incur the guru's wrath.


It wasn't only Polish kids who were given second class treatment it was all the international kids. My son went there and he confirms this to be the case. But there could be some truth in what you say a pecking an order. It's disgusting to even think about it. Polish people should be told the situation.
What my son also said that in Tapa's mind he was training the students not for future jobs or building on their natural talents but for being able to humbly serve and not to question Bulter at Kailua. Many times he said he was proud of his students who got to go on site.

What they learnt from those "American School" text books was useless - a waste of time. But Tapas didn't care he just had to keep the kids busy. I mean who actually had recognized teacher qualifications there? Did the teachers have police checks? Of course not, they were just some bramacari from the country side who was paid a minimal amount to oversee these pesky international students. Most likely no one was checked into or had any recognized training teaching. Tapas was Filipino ex military – can you imagine. When I said Mr Midgett hushed things up, the homosexual activity involved Tapas’ very own son - on a younger boy. Siddhaswarup down played it and the school continued on.

Some of the boys who were abused by older students and adults, still have problems to this day, years later. Here in Australia the Catholic Church has to pay compensation $ for such abuse. Siddhaswarup wants to spread world peace by getting his puppet TG elected. He couldn’t even run a school of 25 kids. All the westerns were treated as lowly karmis. Sadly racism is a problem in Philippines society just like here in Australia racism is rife. Tapas das called some western girls at a retreat names because they had their nose pierced. But as you say Butlers whole stick was "you are not the body". It’s still a shock that these poor young and vulnerable children are being taught the opposite, not by words but by actions. The sick bay arrangements were child abuse. One Australian mother was told "no we are not sending your son back until he finishes his allotted time in the PI", kidnapping? This is what Siddhaswarup has led us to. The underlining reason I think is, that he doesn’t give a shit.

I think someone needs to write a through account of what Acharaya & Tapas did at the PI school.



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2019 12:19PM by Dudley.

Dudley, I believe Ian Koviak already did just that- created a blog about the Baguio School.


[baguiobrahmacharislive.blogspot.com]


To see what Ian commented please go to this web site:

[www.hawaiifreepress.com]

Dudley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Swarup promoted the PI schools, it was a money
> maker for Tapas das and co. It subsidized the
> local Philippine schools. I know of a case were
> Siddhaswarup contacted a local area representative
> back in the states (about an abuse case) and said.
> "Tapas das was offering the PI school to me, but I
> didn't have anything to do with the day to day
> running. Which is a bald face lie.

That sounds unbelievable. Such statements must be supported by hard evidence. It looks like a shirk of responsibility, but Tapas das is an initiated disciple and so is the aspect of Guru's responsibility for the disciple's actions from a philosophical point of view.

> We all saw how Swarup publicly humiliated the
> school teachers at PI girls school when his grand
> daughters were not taken to the beach every second
> day. When it affects him he gets involved and gets
> angry. Anyway his granddaughters had first class
> treatment the whole way. They were fussed over -
> the royal family. So sex abuse never effect his
> grandchildren or his family. The Philippines
> devotees are aware that you don't want to incur
> the guru's wrath.

Were other girls taken to the beach every other day? After all, the Vedas say that the real parent is the one who loves other people's children as much as his own. Not to mention the history of the Vedic king, who offered just a piece of his own body as sacrifice to his subjects in the name of justice.


> It wasn't only Polish kids who were given second
> class treatment it was all the international kids.
> My son went there and he confirms this to be the
> case. But there could be some truth in what you
> say a pecking an order. It's disgusting to even
> think about it. Polish people should be told the
> situation.

Thanks for the information. Sad to hear but it is then confirmed.

For me, the idea was questioned from the beginning. Thousands of kilometers from parents and no one will take care of a child better than their own parent. Especially the devotee. Then the issue of climate, food, bacterial strains. The next point raised in the article linked by VoxVeritaDas is that in this "gurukula" there was no guru. In Polish, "kula" can be connected with:

"kula u nogi" - ball and chain
"chodzil o kulach" - he walked on crutches
"kula" - works poorly
"kula" - bullet

Better treatment of children of rich Americans than poor Poles is a normal mechanism. And either school brings transcendental values, and if not why bother with it or risk sending your children.

> What my son also said that in Tapa's mind he was
> training the students not for future jobs or
> building on their natural talents but for being
> able to humbly serve and not to question Bulter at
> Kailua. Many times he said he was proud of his
> students who got to go on site.

> What they learnt from those "American School" text
> books was useless - a waste of time. But Tapas
> didn't care he just had to keep the kids busy. I
> mean who actually had recognized teacher
> qualifications there? Did the teachers have police
> checks? Of course not, they were just some
> bramacari from the country side who was paid a
> minimal amount to oversee these pesky
> international students. Most likely no one was
> checked into or had any recognized training
> teaching. Tapas was Filipino ex military – can you
> imagine.

Leaders represented a different approach to education in Poland. In Poland, learning in primary school is very thorough. To a large extent it can be useless. E.g. what is bast, jaws, clamshells, functions in mathematics, physics or chemistry that allows a school student to prepare TNT and blow up the school window.

One of the leaders stated that studying was a waste of time. Others thought it was fantastic to combine Guru's service with graduation, while others thought it was practical. Of course the so-called SIF-businesmann would like to have cheap workers. These were the symptoms.


> When I said Mr Midgett hushed things up,
> the homosexual activity involved Tapas' very own
> son - on a younger boy. Siddhaswarup down played
> it and the school continued on.

PR, political or ideological projects end in this way. On a minimal budget and so on. Thank you for confirmation. Mr. Midgett manifested the symptoms of a silencer. Where in all this is the law or universal moral principles, not to mention spirituality?


> Some of the boys who were abused by older students
> and adults, still have problems to this day, years
> later. Here in Australia the Catholic Church has
> to pay compensation $ for such abuse.

The victim's memory is longer than the memory of the torturer. What Mr.Midgett wouldn't like to remember.

Maybe the money language would be then the best teacher?

> The sick
> bay arrangements were child abuse. One Australian
> mother was told "no we are not sending your son
> back until he finishes his allotted time in the
> PI", kidnapping?

Confinement?


> Siddhaswarup
> wants to spread world peace by getting his puppet
> TG elected.

With her shallow knowledge of Bhagavad Gita? Joke.


> He couldn't even run a school of 25
> kids. All the westerns were treated as lowly
> karmis. Sadly racism is a problem in Philippines
> society just like here in Australia racism is
> rife. Tapas das called some western girls at a
> retreat names because they had their nose pierced.

Young people today have different habits and it is the art of upbringing to gain and trust of a child, convey role models, inspire or go gently through the period of rebellion and be a child's friend for life.


> But as you say Butlers whole stick was "you are
> not the body". It's still a shock that these poor
> young and vulnerable children are being taught the
> opposite, not by words but by actions.

Yes, it was quite quickly seen that the lofty theory was accompanied by vile practice. What was important, however, what was its source, because Catholic and Polish upbringing manifested the symptoms of definitely being higher in the hierarchy of behavior.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2019 11:30PM by DaWatcher.

I've written on this forum extensively about my time in the School, my memories and the things I know for a fact happened. I am an open book about it and happy to discuss and talk about it all.

The fact is it was an illegally run uncredited school. It was operated by unqualified teachers and headmasters. Butler's son, Siddha was treated with special attention as were Tapasya Das' son and nephew. Boys with major psychological issues had no access to counselors and proper guidance. Younger boys were abused and bullied by their peers and old boys. Karma and demeaning language was used as a way to write off any issues kids may have been having. Boys who were caught masturbating were publicly humiliated. Boys who expressed homosexual tendencies had to hide and were obviously living in a literal hell of self guilt and shame. We were shown vulgar videos of homosexual men fucking in the streets of san franscico with the bias message fo them getting aids. We were exposed to countless vulgar lectures of Butler describing in detail fringe homosexual sex acts and complete bias and vile language used to judge and shame pretty much anyone who did not conform to butlers world view: Scientists, other religious groups and leaders including those who where fellow vaishnavas, and of course devotees within the group who had offended butler in some menial way. We are under constant stress and fear of judgment. All the activities we learned were with the aim of being useful to Butler and his projects as soon as we returned to the west.

We woke at 4am after only 5-7 hours of rest and took cold bucket showers, chanted in dark temple rooms, had moldy clothing, bad food and half-ass education based on hindu mythology about half-man half lion and pig avatars. We were told these stories of complete fiction were unequivocal truth and were lead to believe they were literal and true historical events. We had zero education about other world religions and mythology from other world cultures. It was not till years later that I was able to finally study and see the origins of various hindu deities and the evolution of the Bhakti cult in India and put two and two together to understand that these stories were metaphorical ideas about the human psyche and various hodgepodge philosophic theories of the east.

Butler was the focal personality of worship, surrender and emulation. We stared at pictures of the youthful butler on the Alter every day and were told to distribute his books, often in vulnerable places like cemeteries and poor barrios and downtrodden neighborhoods where uneducated people were more likely to be influenced. It also helped that were were a bunch of white kids.

Most parents were asked to send about $200/month to cover our care. We had zero access to parental comfort or care. Our parents were left join the west to become full-time servants of Butler—starting businesses for him, managing businesses, opening preaching centers and being his person servants: Cooking for him and his wife, folding his underwear, massaging him, putting tinfoil walls and air filtration systems throughout his house and abiding by his many neurotic kitchen and personal care rules. Some of these rules were as narcissistic as to ask devotees to pay Butler money if they accidentally left a dirty spoon in the dishwasher or some such bullshit.

Butler publicly shames his own disciples regularly and letters or lecture tapes were sent to all his disciples worldwide wherein he cursed and sweared at his personal servants or other devotees for things like seeking out a husband, not having mangoes available or storing his lecture tapes improperly and so forth. It ranged from silly things to downright absurd and neurotic. Devotees lived in shame, fear and guilt.

Butler approved certain devotees as "pure". They included, of course, his own wife (which he apparently gave up sanyas so he can "preach to woman" which has no scriptural source at all), Tusta Krishna das and Katyayani Devi Dasi. Mike Gabbard AKA Krishna Katha was considered a high ranking devotee and we were always told who to vote for and so forth (eroding the very meaning of democracy).

Toenails of Butler, hair clippings or sand he walked on were regularly distributed as "Maha prasadam" which was eaten by devotees.

There was constantly scandals throughout the mission. Instead of solving these things in a rational and respectful manner, Butler often exploded with anger and smashed everyone who was involved. There was no leading with love and mindful attention to how people may be affected.

Millions of dollars were funneled for assorted projects of Butler's (many of which failed or never came to fruition) or just to maintain his elaborate care. There are countless letters were Butler is angry and critical of his Devotees for messing up some small part of his care. These were devotees with real jobs and kids to care for who were doing their best to be his person servants.

There are many lectures of Butler as well as booklets that show completely skewed and illogical views on assorted topics with scientific rigor or even basic rational thought. His views on education and schooling were appalling and lacked any foresight. Kids were sent to the PI schools only to return tot he west with no credits—as if they literally had not gone to school for 6 years of their life. They either had to test out of things to enter a school or take GED tests and simply forgot a normal education.

Butler shared many of his own spiritual masters absurd views on science, astronomy, leadership, politics and other religious groups. [prabhupadasaid.com] and [harekrishnathing.com] reflect many of the views Butler shared with his own Guru.

Information about Butlers based was often secret or we were told some sort of fantastical stories about Butler having achieved brhaman realization while he was a 17 year old LSD hippie in Hawaii. We were told silly stories about Butlers flesh burning at the base of his spine as he raised his Kundalini energy along his spinal column. We were told tales of Butler surrendering his large group of followers to Swami Prabhupada like some sort of tale from Chaitanya Charitamrita of Mayavadis surrending their followers to Mahaprabhu. It's comical now in retrospect, but we were kids and ate this shit up like ice cream on a hot summer day.

We were told that Tusta Krishna das' eternal spiritual form and relationship with the blue god Krishna (swarup/rasa) was that of a gopa, cowherd playmate of Krishna. And that Katyayani was eternally a maidservant of mother Yashoda in the mood of a nanny caretaker of baby gopala. I shit you not. Butler was either a gopi or gopa—it was always a mystery.

We were read tales of Krishna stealing the clothes of the Gopis and descriptions of the firm full breasts and thighs of the Gopi girls while at the height of puberty and told to not think of sex and women. It was a total mindfuck of a nonsense education for a group of young boys. While in the west kids were getting proper education about sex, astronomy and world religion and proper academia, were were getting read the equivalent of Santa clause stories and bullshit idealism. We were told to fear thew world around us, not how to be better members of it. We were isolated and told that the world is illusion, evil, materialists demons and karmis. All goodness was to be found at the lotus feet of butler. We never questioned why so much of the so-called "universal" mythology we were read was obviously a "India-centric" religion replete with references to lotus flowers, elephants, dhotis and sitars.

As Butler devotees we had no exposure to the deeper traditions of the Vaishnava faith. We were not allowed to visit India or any of the pilgrimage spots, did not wear tilak or tradition vaishnava dress, neck beads, sika, dhotis and saris or even play instruments like mrdanga, supposedly dear to the founder of the Bhakti movement, Chaitanya. We regularly had Jesus on the alter and we had nearly no exposure or concept of the guru varga of our lineage. We did not study the works of the goswamis to gain a better understanding of any of the deeper philosophies of vaishnavasim live Sambandha, Abidheya and Prayojana. We were basically taught we are not the body, follow the 4 regulative principles, to chant and "love" Krishna and worship Butler. This simplistic ideology that can be found in hundreds of books was meant to sustain us as devotees for eternity. This abstraction was meant to give us some sort of "edge" over the average person. And we truly did feel like we had some edge. Devotees were often arrogant and proud and spoke as if they knew some deep universal truth.

I look in both amusement and deep sadness over my years wit Butler. It robbed me of family, exposed me to complete mind garbage, wasted my youth, left me riddles with stress, anxiety, guilt and shame. Left me feeling alone and unable to have normal relationships and rational views and opinions about the world around me. It blunted my curiosity and fed my brain with nonsensical explanations for natural phenomena. Indra was the rain god, shiva's made snakes and spiders poisonous, Ganesh got an elephant head for protecting his mother, and demigods flew from universe to universe on giant swans. The sun was pulled around by a chariot with horses and Krishna gave a 2 hour talk in the middle of a battlefield while everyone waited. Homosexuals were born from lord brahmas ass and varaha came out of brahmas nose like a booger. And lets not forget that naradha muni flies through space playing an instrument invented 2000 years ago.

Believe what you want, but I don't feel any of the above has a place in modern hindu thought as literal and historic factual events. They are parables and symbolic tales at best and simple village stories in most cases. They have no place in a serious study and perusal of a spiritual practice regardless if they are of the Bhakti ilk or Jnana or Karma yoga variety. Kids should not spend their childhood being fed this stuff or told to worship any guru unless it's in a more generic traditional guru/priest approach. A child should be allowed to play, be with their parents, have girls and boys as friends and learn contemporary academic courses, learn about world religions and cross-cultural mythology and eventually, as adults, find a spiritual guide on their own. No one should ever be told to worship someone from birth. It defeats the purpose of finding your own path and spiritual foundation. Who you worship and listen to should not be appointed from birth when it comes to spiritual maters. A guru is a expert on spiritual topics at best, but has no business in education.

Butler, as a guru, has no business in pursuing business ventures and so forth. A true vaishnva lives simply and humbly and does not involve themselves in money ventures, complex marital arrangements (like marrying your own disciple who already has kids of her own) and politics. This man is a charlatan and fraud of the highest order. He is a hypochondriac narcissist germaphobe. He is a clown. A sad sad clown.

Is the Srimad Bhagavatam of benefit to todays society?
Dear Ian
Thank you for you clear description of the PI boys school, hopefully this will help others to be wary.

I would just like to address one point that you touched on in your post. That we should we reject the Srimad Bhagavatam because it has stories that are farfetched and tells us things that do not coincide with modern day understandings of science? I don’t want to be preachy, I respect you, if you disagree no problems.
I’d like to say that the” truth” is always going to be contentious and controversial. There will always be disagreement about what is the truth. It’s one person’s beliefs going head to head with someone else’s belief system. It can be like a battle ground. It’s the nature of things. What was considered truth in the 1950s is no longer the general consensus. Back them it was okay to smoke in hospitals. This is going on now in the west sometimes called the culture wars. Intellectuals arguing over history, values and morals everything is up for revision.
If a person comes along and says this is not your real home there is another eternal universe. What do you think people will say? “That sounds interesting tell me more, or that’s bullshit you’re a lunatic”. There is bound to be disagreement.

ACBS always said you should start from the Gita then progress to the Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1, never jump to Canto 10 (nor go to prabhupadasaid.com) In Canto 1 the writer describes a universe that is nothing like the prevailing scientific understanding. But if you are interested in what Krishna’s message is in the Gita you may be inclined listen to the Srimad Bhagavatam descriptions. We know that the universe is so large that no one is ever going to fact check it. It’s unimaginably big. If you wanted to travel to Alpha Centauri (the closet planet outside our solar system) at the speed of Voyager 1 it would take 80 thousand years to get there.
Once when being challenged by some devotees about statements in the Srimad Bhagavatam, ACBS said: “That's all right. Accept, or if you reject, reject. I can’t do anymore”

It was a recipe for disaster for you guys at the PI school because you were taught by narcissists. You should never had been forced to read Srimad Bhagavatam or chant, only fanatics think that you can force someone to love God. Unfortunately you were in another country your parents couldn’t help you and if you spoke out you could be punished. Butler told people here in Australia it was designed that way. Tapas was a fundamentalist catholic turned pseudo vaisnava. Butler is a control freak, Tapas das is a control freak. Control freaks can’t show real human emotions and love.

My two points are
- The Srimad Bhagavatam is built on prior understandings taught by an expert devotee. The expert devotee was hidden from you by Chris Butler.

- Spiritual love can’t be passed on if you don’t have it to begin with.

Thanks for the chance to talk about this. Regards Dudley

Hi DaWatcher

I think what you say about good parenting is right

* Young people today have different habits and it is the art of upbringing to gain and trust of a child, convey role models, inspire or go gently through the period of rebellion and be a child's friend for life.

A child has the right to question and think for themselves from 13 - 14yr onwards. If they reject the parents philosophy, so be it. That is their right. If the parent or parents were always supportive and provided a happy secure home, the child will always remember and appreciate that.