DISCLAIMER: This post may not be relevant enough for some readers. So skip it if this is an issue.

Just saw the best film on religious belief. It's absolutely hysterical! Bill Maher's "RELIGULOUS". One of the funniest and most offensive documentaries ever made. If you take yourself and your religious beliefs way too seriously, you won't like it. No one is exempt, not even the Hari bowler rollers!

RELIGULOUS TRAILER

Oh, having watched this makes me yamaduta food, I guess...
Don't say you weren't warned!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2009 03:34AM by Vera City.

Jay, regarding the last picture you posted, which goes something like this:

Boy sees girl. Boy talks to girl. Boy makes love to girl. Boy feels guilty. Boy quarrels with somebody. Boy gets strangled by snake!!!

Could pictures like this have a subliminal effect on cult members and affect their lives? Does this create a religious-type frame of mind that is not very compatible with a marriage relationship? Does a cult member start to have feelings of guilt around sexual urges, which leads to a relationship with no communication and ultimately divorce or separation?

Question: What is a four-letter word that ends with k and means intercourse?

Answer: TALK...

If a man stops looking at the shapely body of his wife for fear of sexual attraction, and starts to resent her existence as a gateway to hell, this could also lead to a situation with no communication (no talking!) ... I would guess that most women do not like being in a marriage like that and eventually the question of divorce or separation arises...

Some modern-day researchers reckon that the human mind is somewhat like an advanced and complex computer and can be "programmed" by the sights and sounds taken in through the senses...

I have been experimenting (on myself and others) with various "de-programming" methods, sometimes as simple as watching a video on You-tube... If our moderator will allow me to post this, here is a nice old music video that depicts nice happy images which are quite different from the paintings in the Bhagavad-Gita cult Bible... it's the Beach Boys "Don't Worry, Baby"...

[www.youtube.com]

Watching stuff like this, I personally find, can create a counter-balance frame of mind to the religious cult fanatic that this cult seems to breed... (and I personally often prefer to watch something like this to counter-balance the doom-and-gloom daily news as well!)

Also, the next clip is a good one to watch for cult members who are considering divorce, as this also contains the "trigger" word "God" ... Julia Nunes on ukulele singing "God Only Knows"...

[www.youtube.com]

Anyhow, just a few ideas thrown at people who are visiting this forum... feedback is welcome....

Thanks to You-Tube for the above, and thanks to the moderator for allowing such ideas like this on this thread.

Choice quotes from RELIGULOUS TRAILER
My comments are in brackets.
"The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having key decisions made by religious people, by irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken." [Or let someone dictate my life who thinks their spit and toenails should be eaten to purify me.]

"Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith and enable and elevate it are our intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense [FAIRYTALES!] that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction."

"Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people think it is wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord. I'll do whatever You want me to do." Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, [unless you have a psychiatric disorder] that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions, limitations, and agendas."... "Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong." [SIF is dangerous because good people became bigoted, misogynist, and homophobic once they accepted a whole bunch of crap from Butler. The Fraud of the World, the Prabhu Pimp actually teaches that "doubts are like demons" to control his stables.]

"If you belonged to a political party or social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a Mafia wife, with the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers."
[All of Butler's followers are like Mafia wives!]

While on the subject of sexual relations we need to discuss the system of arranged child marriage in ISKCON and SIF as ordered by Bhaktivedanta. This system is given in the Srimad Bhagavatam which was translated and commented on by Butler's revered guru.

Bhaktivedanta Swami not only married a 13 year old girl (not 14 as previously mentioned) but he directed his disciples to marry off 10-12 year old girls. Here are some quotes from SIF's pure devotee on child marriage:

"These are psychology. It is the psychology of woman that before puberty, if she has got a boy, she loves forever. She’ll never be unchaste. So these marriage things are done very psychologically, scientifically, so that they may become happy, and then, in peaceful mind, combine together, good cooperation, they make progress, spiritual. This is the plan, varnasrama-dharma. Very scientific. And Krsna says, “I am that.” Whatever Krsna shall give—perfect. Nobody cares. They are suffering.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrindavana

“There is no objection nineteen-years-old boy and twelve-years girl, it is very good combination.” February 27, 1977

While Bhaktivedanta sets the absolute maximum for females to marry at 16 this does not apply to males:

“Man has no maximum. Even an eighty-years-old man can marry a sixteen-years-old girl.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It is not that the woman do not like rape... Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not." A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, Morning Walk May 11, 1975

"So if the wife is not submissive, then, of course, this always increases the chance that she is going to get physically banged." Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda, Letter to Chaitanya Mission

Quote
just-googling
Jay, regarding the last picture you posted, which goes something like this:

Boy sees girl. Boy talks to girl. Boy makes love to girl. Boy feels guilty. Boy quarrels with somebody. Boy gets strangled by snake!!!

Could pictures like this have a subliminal effect on cult members and affect their lives? Does this create a religious-type frame of mind that is not very compatible with a marriage relationship? Does a cult member start to have feelings of guilt around sexual urges, which leads to a relationship with no communication and ultimately divorce or separation?

Question: What is a four-letter word that ends with k and means intercourse?

Answer: TALK...

If a man stops looking at the shapely body of his wife for fear of sexual attraction, and starts to resent her existence as a gateway to hell, this could also lead to a situation with no communication (no talking!) ... I would guess that most women do not like being in a marriage like that and eventually the question of divorce or separation arises...

Some modern-day researchers reckon that the human mind is somewhat like an advanced and complex computer and can be "programmed" by the sights and sounds taken in through the senses...

I have been experimenting (on myself and others) with various "de-programming" methods, sometimes as simple as watching a video on You-tube... If our moderator will allow me to post this, here is a nice old music video that depicts nice happy images which are quite different from the paintings in the Bhagavad-Gita cult Bible... it's the Beach Boys "Don't Worry, Baby"...

[www.youtube.com]

Watching stuff like this, I personally find, can create a counter-balance frame of mind to the religious cult fanatic that this cult seems to breed... (and I personally often prefer to watch something like this to counter-balance the doom-and-gloom daily news as well!)

Also, the next clip is a good one to watch for cult members who are considering divorce, as this also contains the "trigger" word "God" ... Julia Nunes on ukulele singing "God Only Knows"...

[www.youtube.com]

Anyhow, just a few ideas thrown at people who are visiting this forum... feedback is welcome....

Thanks to You-Tube for the above, and thanks to the moderator for allowing such ideas like this on this thread.

Hey Googling --- those were cute videos -- really the "feel good" type. I get your point that they are an antidote to those cult images. You know from your experience that Butler discouraged fun, like the Dementors in Harry Potter who suck the joy out of people and steal their happy memories! Unless it was an activity that filled the cult coffers or ran the slave ships, it was considered maya or bad. You would be encouraged to leave your wife or husband if they didn't follow the party line. One woman was told by Butler that she was like "a dog in heat" because she wanted to get married and have a family...

Bill Maher makes the point in his movie RELIGULOUS that religion does everything to destroy the natural feelings between men and women and even can motivate people to blow up others just to get a reward of sex in the after life! Butler decided to become "like the Buddha" after he was rejected by a young woman and ended up creating his own religion. Maher interviews several people who have had "talks" with G0d, Jesus, or extra-terrestials who have given them messages. It's a pathology. Butler used to tell his followers how he saw Krishna who gave him the name SAI. Later he back-peddled and realized that he could hook into ACB's pure devotee/ "Prabhupad" gig and just about say anything and people would follow him. In fact the more rediculous the lie, the more people believed him. He could ordain you a pure devotee or a demon to suit his whim. People are just hard-wired to believe fairy tales! And religious leaders are just a bunch of sexually frustrated, horny idiots who can't get laid --- so they make up a religion!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2009 08:07AM by Vera City.

Here's a PRIMER for these quotes from RELIGULOUS to spell out how it applies to Chris Butler:

"If you belonged to a political party or social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a Mafia wife, with the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers."

Many ex Butler followers have reported that as time went on, as they chanted more, associated more, delved more into the philosophy, that they began to drop some of their of their old core ethics and understandings to only mirror the gurus. They began to feel that they could no longer value or trust their own thinking, willing or feeling. Most exers recover their old values, but several I know still believe that they can not go on in life without a teacher. Teachers are fine, learning from others is fine -- but when you cross the line and start believing, with no real evidence, that one man is the world's teacher, perfect, and represents a supreme being (or superior alien race) -- know you are in trouble. The damages are many and varied in both intensity and duration. I have never heard, till Bill Maher said it, that "Doubt is humility." Doubt can also save your ass a whole lot of grief! But to doubt yourself, your experience, your own innate wisdom, your own absurdity meters is a different matter. That inner bullshit meter is what is precisely targeted by cults. When someone is telling you that you can't see or know or understand without _________(cult, guru, practice), then be very wary.

"The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having key decisions made by religious people, by irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken."

Here Maher is referring to the former Bush administration and his war on terror along with Islamic extremism; both colored with religiosity. It should not escape anyone reading this that Butler has for many years meddled in politics like a Prabhu Pimp Mullah! His mafia wife candidates have whored themselves to his sexually repressive agenda and anti-gay fatwahs for years! The issues are not a belief in G0d or in basic, universal tenants like don't kill, steal, sleep with someone else's wife. But why is it that religions, especially religions combined with politics have historically been the most lying, thieving, judgmental, abusive, fraudulent, and violent of clubs? So Butler may sweep an ant out of a path so it doesn't get stepped on... but he'll allow a follower's child with special needs be neglected, or tell a mother to not worry about a baby's cough, or denigrate a person with bulimia because it is their karma!

Vera, you said:

"Later he back-peddled and realized that he could hook into ACB's pure devotee/ "Prabhupad" gig and just about say anything and people would follow him."

No. This is completely false.

If Chris Butler were to make his lectures available to the public nobody would buy into it.

Cults, as opposed to religions, take away an individuals a right to choose. Teenagers and young adults are herded into sex-segregated houses and subjected to isolation, low-protien diets, hypnotism, sleep deprivation, hours of chanting and listening to Butler lectures under the supervision of a disciple. It is a dedicated process o thought-reform and not simply Butler lying and followers buying it. Religion and cults are two seperate matters.

Leaving the cult is also problematic. Ray Linsley admitted that Butler orders his disciples to blackmail followers (a favored method of Scientology) with access to their own children or family members. Children are taken overseas and hidden from their parents. There is a whole system of how followers are kept within the cult.

You have already shown that you know this, so why are you trying to simplify this to willingness and gullibility of individuals?

J.C.~ sigh... this is just nutters!

A little history: As an adolescent, Chris Butler studied a few books on zen and eastern philosophy and met a few guru guys. Couple this with some acid trips, a natural charisma, an unorthodox upbringing (with one or both parents having narcissistic tendencies), and you've got a screwball cocktail in the making! One day Chris decided to go up the mountain, claimed to have fasted a month, and had a vision of Krishna who named him "Sai". He started his Krishna Yoga Community after that with his hippie, surfer friends. Then ACB's gang got disturbed and said ,"Hey. you can't be a guru without having a guru!" This made everyone a bit uncomfortable, so little Chris/ Sai decided to mainline ISKCON, got initiated by ACB along with all of his "offered up" followers. (This is what I referred to as "back-pedaling". He reversed his enlightenment claims -- at least until later.) It didn't take Chris/Sai/Siddhaswarupananda Goswami long to figure out that the pure devotee act/ charade/ game/ facade (what I referred to as 'ACB's pure devotee/ "Prabhupad" gig') was good business. By the time ACB died, he already had a money making organization in place and took on the Heavy Weight Champion title of Guru to the World. This is a fact. It's all in Sai Speaks, Barbara (biography of Chris's mother by his father) and in The Haribol Special (on this forum). You are the one who is incorrect or somehow did not understand the post.

Try reading my posts more carefully, or rather, refrain from reading into my posts things that are not there and stop making false implications about what I write!
Also try watching my source material before you make simplistic statements and generalizations. The movie RELIGULOUS also covers cults like Scientology, the Raelians, with some footage of the 'Harry Krishman Singers and Dancers' -- as well as other relevant issues regarding cults. The film is about the absurd side of human belief...and it's dangers.

I've posted a lot of documents that Butler's followers would love to see disappear along with me! It's starting to look like you have an investment in discrediting me, which is exactly what SIF would love to see!

Find your straw man somewhere else. She ain't here.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2009 10:02AM by Vera City.

Vera: So how should I read these comments?

"[Butler could say] just about say anything and people would follow him.

In fact the more rediculous the lie, the more people believed him...

People are just hard-wired to believe fairy tales!"

All of Butler's followers are like Mafia wives!

I read that you are trying to present Butler's followers as gullible and willing.

Are you back-peddling?

Quote
Vera City
J.C.~ sigh... this is just nutters!

Try reading my posts more carefully, or rather, refrain from reading into my posts things that are not there and stop making false implications about what I write!

Find your straw man somewhere else. She ain't here.

I think I would have to agree with Vera City on this argument...

The movie "Religulus" looks like a hoot and indeed is relevant to this forum... I got a good laugh from the trailer showing the guy talking in tongues... hilarious!

:0)