Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: June 11, 2008 08:41PM

Yeh, war on EROTICISM ... that's a good one!!! :0)

Thanks for posting the typed pages about the school in Hawaii, Vera. What hits me most when reading these pages is Siddha's obvious obsession with politics ... okay it's no big deal for someone to get involved with politics, but:

1) there seems something wrong with a so-called spiritual leader to get so involved with politics.

2) It seems that he is trying to ram the politics down the throats of very young children (10 year olds? 12, 13, 14????)

So these poor kids not only had RELIGION pushed down their throats, but POLITICS as well....

As for me, the main ingredient of this cake is when he orders his disciples to support a controversial war, as outlined in previous posts by myself and others...

The icing on the cake is the stories of how he declares a national disaster for such petty things as his lamp not being plugged in...

Let's hope Tulsi does not become the first female president ... Imagine a scenario where she orders the troops to invade Poland because the Polish disciples had not plugged HIS lamp in.... or even worse, God forbid, had out-dated milk sitting in HIS refrigerator ....!!!

As an irrelevant but interesting side note, I recently read a report that Hitler had killed some innocent people, dressed them up in Polish Army uniforms, and claimed that they had been invading Germany ... thus justifying his attack on Poland and the start of WW2... I am not sure if this story is absolutely true, but I for one can certainly believe it ... I can even believe that these tactics are being carried on in this day and age ... but then again I have been labelled as a "conspiracy theorist" for even considering such things...

PS -- Latest bulletin from Siddha's instructions:

Don't fondle your nuts...
DON'T LOOK AT WOMEN'S BUTTS...

:0)

self promotion
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 11, 2008 11:10PM

SOI KILLS- I am here posting primary historical documents. People reading these documents really have no choice but to conclude that it is a dangerous cult. Period. End of story. It's self evident. Everyone else, including you, have a place here to fill in whatever opinions or memories they want. You come here to promote your websites and your points of view. You consider yourself an expert. Not everyone has to agree with you, especially when they conflict with what we experienced. There are many details on your website which are inaccurate. But it is a moot point. Most of the differences are not important. The general picture is spot on. The bottom line is letting people know about the cult in as many forms on the web as possible. I am posting proof. People can make up their own minds. You can editorialize all you want. But please do not bully the participants on this forum. A lot of the people here have suffered enough harshness in a cult...don't make it worse. You do not have proprietary rights on exposing this or any other cult. Please play nice here.

Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:06AM

Quote
Vera City
You do not have proprietary rights on exposing this or any other cult. Please play nice here.

Don't make a hypcrite of yourself now.

Just like Chris Butler you are making assertions that information is not true and yet you are not providing any example of this. Specify what is not true or keep your opinions to yourself. I know about the campaign here of anonymous cowards who are doing SoI favours by attacking their opposition. We are dealing with facts, something you and your friends here are noticeably short on to be able to poo-poo anyone outside your little clique that does not agree with sympathetic memorialising of the cult. If you want to correct something then spell it out, you can do it here, on the cultofbutler forum, on the blog, via email, on your own website. You have options to prove you are not simply being malicious or a liar on this point. To this day even from their lawyers there has been no refutation of a single fact on that website and that is including over 100 pages of lawyers letters and lengthy corresspondence with senior disciples in this day and age. Not a single fact - so if you have one then bring it. I note that you have no issue supporting this site despite the abundance of foolishness, riddles and mistruths which have been posted here. Wouldn't be a personal issue because you don't like the culprits in SoI being named would it?

Do not tell me what my motives are or what websites I own and you would be wrong on both counts. I'm not going to argue with you or your cheerleaders on this.

I am not interested in you or anyone else telling me what my rights are here or anywhere else. The success and the effort that has been put in to doing what the old timers WOULD not do - and that is to warn others about this cult is self-evident. Likewise I am not getting into a slinging match here about it.

You are posting historical documents and at the same time trying to say that the cult changed that it wasn't always like that, you are leaving out details that you or any other disciple would be aware of and that is your choice but it leaves a lot of gaps even with documents. You are always falling back onto the old stand by of you can't possibly know because you're not me, but me is someone that got letters like this and still hung around - so that hardly makes you a credible advocate for what is a cult and who should get out or not does it? What makes you so special that noone can correct you or ask you a question but you can make assertions about what everyone else thinks and what they are up to? Just another anonymous hypocrite - with a monopoly on suffering in the cult also. Anyone can indeed see for themselves that anyone who got even one letter like this and stuck around is a brainwashed imbecile who deserves whatever they got and that trait does not qualify you to attack anyone else or their website. It is both easy and cowardly to attack those who have made themselves known while hiding yourself.

I posted in response to you because I am sick of the games that go on here and the favours done to the cult by the constant bs and the campaign of hostility started here defending SoI against their best critics. I will protect the actual fight against SoI because I support it. Yes that is my choice and you don't have to agree with it, but don't start by telling lies about something you are not involved with, choose not to be involved with and have no right or basis to criticise.

Dear Fanatic
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:25AM

What follows is the original Dear Fanatic "interview" first published in the "Valley Isle" newspaper. The Valley Isle was a feature newspaper published on Maui. Rick Reed was the "editor in chief", but CB approved of all of the material. The only thing he wrote was his own interviews. Reed edited the English. Several people swapped roles as reporters (all interview style articles). No one got credit.

The paper was put together in an old house in the country. There were two main houses on the land. CB lived in one house and the newspaper crew lived in small huts or in the main house. CB's house was a far cry from the luxurious apartments and homes he moved into later. Everyone at the time really did not mind the humble abodes. It was peaceful and beautiful. CB's place was no different from the rest - small cot with mosquito netting, not much furniture, simple, but healthy food. The difference was that NO ONE was allowed, unless invited, to his house. CB had one male valet/cook/housekeeper/gofer/driver here.

CB also published a version of the paper called the "Garden Isle" for people on Kauai. (Penaroza was the editor/reporter, but he saw early on what a scum bag CB was and left the cult in the '70's. It cost him his wife and children who stayed in the cult). There were lots of homey, human interest articles and was supported by local advertising. It was really popular. There were articles about local people, musicians, organic farmers, a guy who put up wind mills, an old Japanese couple who lived simply and collected rain water and grew their own food, the Maui potato chip factory. The idea was to promote the simple island style and win the hearts of the local people. No one knew (except for, perhaps, CB’s inner circle) that the paper would venture into politics (Mehau/Godfather articles) or that there was a Master Plan.

The papers folded mid ‘70’s so that CB could concentrate on becoming a political puppet master and Godfather in his own kingdom. During this time, followers were instructed to look and act as "normal" and "local" as possible and shed ISKCON looks and mannerisms, as well as the hippie culture. People groomed up. He wanted his local businesses; health food store, farmer's markets, gas station (yes, he had a gas station on Maui), gift store to become a part of the local community. He wanted his followers to be respected community members. (It was also in that light that Mike Gabbard later wanted to open up the Ponomauloa school to local kids, generating from those early CB directives.)

From the follower’s point of view, the idea was fine. Everyone pictured themselves living peaceful, respectable, spiritual lives and turning on the community to spiritual practices and a vegetarian lifestyle. Naively, many thought that just by chanting God’s holy names and offering your food, you would make the whole world happy. People began to marry and have kids, open businesses. Their fearless leader lived humbly and seemed to have all the answers. The real nightmare was yet to be revealed. Perhaps the inner circle was working on more nefarious plans and deals in the ‘70’s, but for the majority of the “lesser” followers, it looked like a nice place to be. There was an exodus in the 1980's when the latent paranoia, narcissism and hypocrisy became glaringly apparent.

To set up the article, CB claims he was suing Hawaii media outlets for lumping him in with ISKCON. I'm not sure if a lawsuit was ever filed in reality or not --- or if it was just one of CB's many manipulative strategies. He always loved the merry prankster role. Remember, he wrote the whole interview, questions and answers.

Re: Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: SoI Kills ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:26AM

i know that the tendency on this forum is to get current members out and that condemnation is based on not pandering to that enough. What you fail to realise is that people can see from such documents that something is a destructive cult - but they cannot see this from meditation centers, particualarly those presenting themselves as polytheist or Christian which is how SoI works today.

People can also not see from these documents themselves what businesses they are supporting and why they may want to reconsider giving them their money ie that it is going to a destructive cult. Siddha is already rich and he will die rich and in control, there is no way that he will ever be brought to any justice. Just to look at him he could leave the planet any day now.

Cults change when faced with opposition and philosophical differences with Siddha being the apparent main reason most of his former disciples left him, and many going to other gurus, are not the interests of people who may be recruited into this cult tomorrow or next year. The philosophy is not what is central to the organisation anymore because noone would join a Hare Krishna cult today. Recruitment power for all of them is extremely low.

Disciples will leave when they are ready to leave, and it is unlikely that will ever happen, since they already know all this information and a lot more and still stick around. To make them the primary concern when many of them have been willing parties in the abuses of this cult is to sell out the people that still have potential to avoid the sufferring that you lament.

Dear Fanatic
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:31AM





Dear Fanatic 2
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:34AM





End of article.

Re: self promotion
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:37AM

Again

SOI KILLS- I am here posting primary historical documents. People reading these documents really have no choice but to conclude that it is a dangerous cult. Period. End of story. It's self evident. Everyone else, including you, have a place here to fill in whatever opinions or memories they want. You come here to promote your websites and your points of view. You consider yourself an expert. Not everyone has to agree with you, especially when they conflict with what we experienced. There are many details on your website which are inaccurate. But it is a moot point. Most of the differences are not important. The general picture is spot on. The bottom line is letting people know about the cult in as many forms on the web as possible. I am posting proof. People can make up their own minds. You can editorialize all you want. But please do not bully the participants on this forum. A lot of the people here have suffered enough harshness in a cult...don't make it worse. You do not have proprietary rights on exposing this or any other cult. Please play nice here.

Re: self promotion
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: June 12, 2008 12:43AM

Vera City:

Thanks for those words.

Let's all stick to those guidelines.

No one should be bullying or name calling here.

Let's try to get along without getting nasty despite disagreements.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2008 01:03AM by rrmoderator.

note
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 12, 2008 02:23AM

Note-
The Dear Fanatic article was written prior to CB taking on the "Jagad Guru" title and appointing himself acharya of the whole world. (cough...ack..ack...)
He is called Siddha Swarup Ananda Goswami (celibate, unmarried monk) or Siddha Swarup. Most of the followers during this time simply called him "Siddha".
Cult leaders seem to have a thing about changing their names....
The photograph on page 17 was taken on Maui in front of the house where the Valley Isle was produced.

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