Ok folks,

I think it is really important to be careful of judge this path.
Only someone with true experience should decide if it is where they want to go. I believe it is a valid path. There might be wingdut fanatics, but these can be found all over this great planet.

At point, it is important to distinguish Sidhha from the rest of the devotees.
Everyone has free will and is expressing it in many many ways.
If we generalize this group of devoted people as weird lovers of Krsna, we are missing that it is SERVING PEOPLE TOO.

WHY?
1- Commitment to Realize that You are NOT your body.
2- Commitment to live free of drugs, cheap sex, & negative influence with meditation.
3- Instills through practices a spiritual lifestyle devoted to others with love.
4- Using way less resources on the planet by living together, farming, singing for entertainment/enlightenment.
5- Promotion of vegetarian lifestyle for health & philosophical reasons.

6- The Ego is being looked at critically with Sihha Swarup's(chris B.) knowledge and wisdom. He is very willing to point out others faults if you establish a relationship with him. But its Intense, be ready to be in the fire ! Which isn't an easy job by any means.

Though he comes from an Eastern prospective, it is merely the core of most real religions. Facts can be looked at but there are a lot of emotional expressions of our own personal path. Somewhere down the line I have to except that I am responsible for my actions and future.

There are very questionable things that I still dont understand. But hopefully he is pure in his motivations and I am not seeing the fruits but the blemishes.

Angelover

Ever since I wrote my first post my life has been changing. For the better.

I found that once I was willing to admit my frustrations more information was remembered. These issues were locking in the back of my mind as wonders.
A couple of days ago a wrote down a whole list of area that I felt were in some way out of integrity with the truth.
HERE IS ONE.
Toe nail eaters. I know this happened. It is actually promoted to worship the feet of a holy person, so there for there is a practice of worshiping shoes that have been on Siddha. Sneakers! Its kind of funny looking.
Ok, so I can understand the concept of worshiping, and even seeing a holy persons feet as holy. But, what I dont understand is EATING the toe nail of Chris B. Its a noble act of faith? Ok I can see some beauty in that.

Does this make sense to any of you?

Are any of you people that have eaten the toe nails yourself out here in cyber space?

This story I really dont understand. I would love it if a devotee of Siddha Swarup would come forward with the philosophical truth of this story.

Ok, so one of the first people in this path I met was a man named Biharilal Das(sp??) He was a older hippie surfer kind of guy. From my knowledge he was one of the very first devotees of Chris Butler(SAI).

I would say that he was a follower for more than 25 years.
Then one day I heard that he "went nuts". He had got in a car accident?

Then I saw him in Cali and he seemed pretty together. I couldn't really see any NUTS about him. The next thing I hear, he is dead.
Dead.
C omitted suicide on a freeway.
Och.......

Why would such a purifying path, and a man that spent 25 years doing it committedly result in this kind of death??

From my understanding he was a very important figure in the DTE biz.

Please speak up if you know more...

Since you (angelover) are aware of some good practices you appreciate what's stopping you from practicing them minus the authoritarian system you have observed?
You could read "The Guru Papers" and "Malignant Pied Pipers of Our Time" for some insight into the pathological constructs" modeled so admirably by this group.
When something reeks of $$$$$$$, deceptions, politics and condemnation there is no reflection of spiritual truth. Likewise, when a group or system infringes on your free-will it points to enslavement and spiritual vampirism.
Did you hear this a lot?????.........."gross material body"
A robotic encantation within this group.
How about "my lovely, strong, healthy body which serves me well."????
Anyone who would sanction foot fetish "worship" is a very sick person and anyone who would do it has to be a humiliated human being.
Who thinks "god" wants his boot licked?
Sounds more like Nazi protocol to me.

I received the following reply from my post: Followers of "Sidda" have recently committed some of the things you mentioned against a family and child. There has been very grave psychological damage to a child (minor) and traumatic sonsequences for an entire family. Please help. There are other parents concerned also.
Briefly: A child of non-members was visiting a family in Hawaii. The family of origin was aware they practiced bahkti and had a "teacher". The family became alarmed when mention was made of sending the child to the PHILIPPINES to a "school" which was referred to as a convent. Do you know anything about this school? The cruelty and covetousness displayed to this child and blood family was/is unbelievable. We are wondering why they were/are so frantically anxious to have the child. Once the child was back with blood family the "devotees" would not cease secret communications. Child had to be relocated at much distress and financial burden. WE ARE WONDERING JUST WHY THEY WERE/ARE SO INTENSELY TO GET THIS CHILD BACK. IS IT POSSIBLE CHILD IS AWARE OF THINGS THEY DON'T WANT REVEALED OR IS NOW BURDENED WITH KEEPING SECRETS? WE NEED all the advice/help possible to help this child recover. It appears some very deep methods were utilized. Breaking down and dirtying identity and attempting a new one. For instance they gave this child a new name and encouraged calling the father of the household "Dad."
You are brave to help here. Please add your voice to this discussion. It has been difficult to uncover information.
The school in the Phillipines is used by the devotees of Chris Butler. I have not heard any negative things about hte school. It is a place where these the devotess can send their children and they know they will get a an education following the guidlines under which they leave. Now, as for the case you referred too. If you can get me specific names I can get you more information. I know there are allot of secrets within the group, this child could know things that they might be afraid to get out. I am surprised a non-member family would even allow their child to spend time with members, un-supervised. The name change thing usually does not happen until one receives initiation from Chris. CHris will not accept someone for initiation unless they have been following the regulative priciples, and chanting at least 12 rounds of japa on beads. If the child is traumatized I think the best thing to do is let them feel safe, and let them know that they will not be hurt, and their are people who love them in their life, and it is ok to express their feelings. Sgsin, if you can get me the member family names, father or mother, or children beit, I can get you more information.

Biharilal was a disciple with Chris for a long time. He did run DTE at one time. You are write that he was in car accident and it shook him up, his wife also left him which also shook him.
At the time of his death I was told he was smoking crack, and was very depressed, and ended his life by jumping off of a overpass in Honalulu into the freeway. That is all I know of Biharilal's death, I did meet him a couple times and he always seemed to be a meelow guy. In the group, they sometimes say that if you commit offences towards a devotee or Chris you might go crazy, which I think they said is what happened to Biharilal.

om shanti shanti shanti
I only make my posts to share the truth that I know. What I want is peace among all members and non-members, people to live sincerely. I beleive that religious fanaticism is what creates so many wars and hatred on this earth. If we could all just have repect for one another, know matter what are believes or sexauality.

I agree with what you have to say, I don't think it is good to judge, but there is also good judgement. If people are being hurt, then we need to speak up.

Quote
angelover
Ok folks,

I think it is really important to be careful of judge this path.
Only someone with true experience should decide if it is where they want to go. I believe it is a valid path. There might be wingdut fanatics, but these can be found all over this great planet.

At point, it is important to distinguish Sidhha from the rest of the devotees.
Everyone has free will and is expressing it in many many ways.
If we generalize this group of devoted people as weird lovers of Krsna, we are missing that it is SERVING PEOPLE TOO.

WHY?
1- Commitment to Realize that You are NOT your body.
2- Commitment to live free of drugs, cheap sex, & negative influence with meditation.
3- Instills through practices a spiritual lifestyle devoted to others with love.
4- Using way less resources on the planet by living together, farming, singing for entertainment/enlightenment.
5- Promotion of vegetarian lifestyle for health & philosophical reasons.

6- The Ego is being looked at critically with Sihha Swarup's(chris B.) knowledge and wisdom. He is very willing to point out others faults if you establish a relationship with him. But its Intense, be ready to be in the fire ! Which isn't an easy job by any means.

Though he comes from an Eastern prospective, it is merely the core of most real religions. Facts can be looked at but there are a lot of emotional expressions of our own personal path. Somewhere down the line I have to except that I am responsible for my actions and future.

There are very questionable things that I still dont understand. But hopefully he is pure in his motivations and I am not seeing the fruits but the blemishes.

Angelover

The female you are talking about name is Katiyani. I have met her a couple times, and is a very nice women, I believe her to be very sincere. She is an intitiated disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami, but did for a while consider Chris Butler her teacher. She has separted from the group, she lives in Laguna Beach now. She has small gatherings at her home, again she seems very sincere and I don't sense any fanaticism from her.

Quote
bonnie
(Calif.insider posted on the preceding page and mentioned a female Guru called "Takahani" from Maui, whose followers say she's the Divine Mother.)

James Michener also used the word rascals in the title of his book,"Rascals in Paradise". The book is about notorious pirates, "blackbirders" (slave-runners), and other "rascals" who operated in the South Pacific.

I believe that the devotees use the word as a fond chastisement for those devotees who use deception and unorthodox behavior as a means to achieve Krishna's (or their own; I was never very clear on which) ends.

Bhaktivedanta, from what I can gather, used the word with a slightly stronger connotation (see Webster's).

Observing this busy little topic for awhile now, I notice that someone pops up who has observed negative, destructive things........participants or "ex-members." They report weird behaviors that should be of concern to any sane person but when they get responses in kind or a little more intense they start backtracking and seemingly soften up what they have reported originally. Anyone else notcie this?
Is there a fine line between people who have lost or are in process of losing their own genuine instincts (being able to trust oneself) and those who still function within the validity of their own autonomy?
Strange. Stranger. Strangest.

I have noticed an interesting pattern happening over and over on this thread.

1. A question was asked.
2. Some readers start to speculate about the question.
3. Someone who claims to be an insider writes in with some information
4. Immediately following this, another person who claims to be an insider writes in and promises intimate details only if they are given actual names.
5. No more useful information is revealed at this point
5. The line of questioning is aborted.

Then the pattern repeats.
Does anyone else find this odd?