Hi, just wanted to make a point about the Black Magic issue.

Henry is not suggesting black magic is a functioning reality, but it is a well documented tradition with very specific rituals that are said to have an effect on the victim.

He and we are not saying that this works, we are not saying our friends in the group are zombies on way too much toenail.
We don't think it necessarily has the desired effect but the evidence of them carrying out this black magic ritual exists. The expressed purpose of this ritual is to gain more control over others.

The practice is objectionable and abusive. It was reported to be put into the food at the Baguio boys school regularly, these guys literally could have slipped me the toenail. They are the crazy ones doing it. Reporting it is not the source of the insanity.

Henry's video strongly suggests that my little brother from age 12 was subjected to these extremely ill intentioned black magic abusive rituals. My own brother may well have been ingesting this disgusting substance since 1994.

I'm not saying that black magic works, but it sure didn't hurt. Look at my brother now. A completely loyal Chris Butler fanatic who almost assaulted Henry Jolicuer when henry approached one of butler's mansions to simply ask questions.
My brother Laksmana Sudama Peter Ranson is the personal mind controlled willing slave of Chris Butler absolutely cold and Sociopathic.

This cult has turned Robyn Ranson, Nanda Ormond, Laksmana Ranson and everyone else totally cold and Sociopathic. I talked to my mum maybe 2 or 3 times on the phone over the last 9 years. Every time I break down into tears, the pain is wrenching and unbearable but I can't help but let it out and tell her I love her.

She has never once cried or showed any emotion whatsoever. Cold. Nanda demonstrates this in his e-mail, not an ounce of my complaints are legitimate, no abuse took place in our upbringings.

Unfortunately my grandparents have been so manipulated and compromised by my mum that I have broken down sobbing with them on the phone a few times. One was when my Dad died and they were denying to help me get home after I pleaded.

I lost it on the phone literally at the breaking point and cried my guts out at what had become of my family. They also do not crack, they are made cold and sociopathic by my mother.

They talk to me and finally hear me out once and a while but for them to actually connect with my pain would mean that they would have to face the truth of the nightmare their daughters have locked themselves into and sacrificed their families to.

I cornered my grandparents after great effort recently to talk to them about the Asthma abuse I suffered under their noses.

This lead to me breaking down and crying I was trated so bad and they still treat me terribly, cutting me off from all my friends and family.

They just console me but there is no emotional connection, they have to become cold and sociopathic to their own grandson just to continue the facade that there is nothing wrong with Robyn Ranson, Jackie Foster and this cult that has completely surrounded my grandparents. Jan and George Ormond have rented their downstairs for nearly 20 years. I cant go home without running into all these clowns

Nanda said I don't know Nimai Van Den Bos. Nimai grew up with me in Whangamata. Nimai was a crazy little toothless kid who had smashed his front baby teeth out because he was on a skateboard on his knees, hit a rock and smashed his front teeth out early, so I remember his funny little face well, we always played together as kids. I have seen Nimai less than Nanda only because Nimai did not visit Maui twice and stay with us like Nanda did. I reconnected with Nimai after a long time in 2005 first saw him at Prahlad's wedding.

It was a mutually awesome reconnection, I remember we were both beaming.
my 2005 trip continued and I was back in Whangamata and out skateboarding, I went to the Whanga skatepark. Nimai had just got into town and asked where I was, he drove over to the skatepark to join me in the session.

It was truly awesome, lots of fun. Nimai was riding a pretty beat up skateboard, and just the deck in New Zealand is $120 ($50 in the US).
I was leaving the next day and I had brought extra skateboard decks and had one left, a brand new REAL skateboard that I bought of my friend pro skater Dennis Busenitz.
I handed it to Nimai and he was in pure disbelief "Are you serious? Fuuuuuuuuuuck man, you're a legend!"
It was awesome, I always rememberd that,happy to hook him up I got it nice and cheap and it would help Nimai way more than me.

So I like to feel like I know Nimai and Nanda and anyone who was ever my good friend well.

I was never ever the one shutting the door, just the one speaking his mind.

Dear eigenerherr and Rama,
We are here for you 1000%.
When you are hurting we are hurting.
We too have passed thru Butler’s grindstone and have come out okay, a little battered and bruised but sovereign and certainly not under the thumb (foot)
of Butler and Co.
Butler, by his own actions, is the target.
With all of our help, we can expose this evil group.
Its not pretty to look at sometimes and at other times its downright ugly.
But there it is. Warts and all.
We will not stop exposing the lies.
And we offer our support to one and all who wish to help us achieve this.
What Dharmabum says is true, it is quite painful to revisit our time in the Cult.
But again, the main focus- expose Butler.
We may not all agree on the method but the madness that is Butler has to be stopped.

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, and I'm trying hard to not feel completely hurt by some of the things said here, but I respect other people's opinions and right to voice them. I didn't mean for anyone to remove videos/posts, I didn't ask anyone to and nor would I, I just wanted to express my concern and discuss it. It was an emotional day when I wrote my post so I should have worded it better, and I'm sorry for the hurt that may have caused. I certainly didn't mean to upset Henry at all, I have a huge amount of respect for the research and videos he's done so far, and have shown other people his videos/channel myself when trying to get non-SOI people to see the craziness of what I grew up with. But I just didn't see how the last one added to the conversation, and I spent two days thinking about whether I should voice those concerns. I don't, in any way, want to dictate to anyone what they should or should not talk about/research or publish. It's in my nature to ask questions and not necessarily agree just to go with the majority, if I didn't have that I would still be stuck in SOI, washing Chris Butler's feet and drinking the foot water "Kool-aid".

As I'm really struggling with the huge emotional impact of being cut off from my family, and being abused by them for speaking out for the second time in my life, I'll refrain from posting because my emotions get the better of me on this subject. I'll still let you know when new videos go up, but I don't want to be the source of division in this group when I know we are all trying to work towards exposing Chris Butler and Wai Lana to the world. That's more important to me than anything. I want to see them both behind bars, paying for the things they have done, and I don't want to discourage others from doing the same.

Just finished this [ramaransonvsthecult.wordpress.com]

I just want to clarify something since it seems there is a misunderstanding about what I was concerned about. I am not saying at all that the toenail clippings and foot water as maha doesn't exist. I remember it being discussed. I brought up the eating of sand out of Chris Butler's footsteps precisely to show people how crazy the idea of maha in the setting of SOI is. It's a disgusting practice and a total abuse of power and position by Chris Butler and Wai Lana, not to mention the child abuse aspect when parents are forcing/encouraging their children to consume it.

My concern was that by linking that practice to black magic, it takes the focus off the practice itself, and then it becomes a discussion over whether Wai Lana practices black magic or not. I don't see how having that discussion helps keep the focus on the abusive actions of Wai Lana and Chris Butler and the culture of abuse and entitlement they have created. I personally believe it doesn't, and may in fact lessen it, THAT'S why I was concerned.

I was also comcerned about the impact it might have on those trying to get out. If they think we're running around accusing them of practicing black magic, it might cause them to withdraw from reaching out. I speak from experience on this one. When i was a young teen, my non-cult friends found one of the religious texts we had. One of them told their parents, who were Pentecostal ministers, who then went around showing all my friends videos of what we supposedly did, people morphing into devils and they accused us of being devil worshippers. I lost a lot of outside friends as a result, and i also lost the ability to talk to those friends about what I was feeling because I thought they would just call me a devil worshipper. I don't want that to happen to anyone else. Hence my concern about what focussing on the black magic angle might do.

Absolutely the issue of consuming body parts/dirty water/dirt should be discussed and analysed. It's disgusting and wrong and a total abuse of power. That wasn't what I'm saying. I just wanted to clear that up.

I am really unhappy to see Henry's video was taken down.

Disheartening.

Henry please put it back up!

I do not agree in omitting anything to seem more palatable, and I believe that the toenail consumption is known to be true by eigenerherr.

Trying to modify the message to not upset those on the inside who may otherwise leave is of far too little consequence, nobody is leaving this group, black magic video or not.

Truth is a video like Henry's is totally founded and legitimate and absolutely must be discussed.
The truth is it is more interesting.
People are interested in cults because they are weird and insane, and we should NOT omit any weirdness that is actually going on in the group.
This will grow public interest.

The reason SOI has lasted 40 years and is currently abusing the 3rd generation of kids is because they have been "Normal Enough". The abuse in general isn't as hideous and sensational as rampant child sexual abuse. If it was, this cult would have only lasted 10-20 years.

A smaller number would have suffered worse abuse but at least it would be brought to an end by now.


The fact that they are "Not THAT Bad" is the reason it continues.
These cult members appeal to society to be good people demanding religious freedom.
They conceal their disturbing true beliefs and practices absolutely subjecting their kids to these ill intentioned Black Magicrituals.

So omitting this craziness to sanitize the message may also result in no Help for the kids in the group as they may be in a bit of a cult, but since that cult doesn't seem too bad little public interest generates.

eigenerherr, You absolutely did nothing wrong, it's fine to disagree. This is a public forum, differing opinions are welcome. There's nothing to apologize about. So long as no one gets nasty and tries to monopolize the forum into a one mind -- just like, er, in a cult. If one believes that way, what then is the point of criticizing cults for? Here is true freedom -- variety of minds. Rama, religious freedom is an oxymoron. The first thing religions take away is freedom. Just remember, children in the cult grew up in constant fear of the outside world. My hope is we could disprove that. Have fun posting, people, just laugh things away. One thought is boring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2015 08:11PM by dharmabum.

Friends, I stumbled upon this article. It may seem irrelevant, but I suggest
it may be useful to this discussion.

[www.gq.com]

The article describes the predicament of a retired drone pilot.

He is not the only one.

[www.google.com]


He was seemingly distanced from killing, viewing it all at a distance
via infra red screen.

Yet prior to launching each Hellfire missile, the pilot would have spent
days, sometimes weeks, watching targeted men living their day to day lives.


Just as Arjuna had known his battlefield adversaries as friends and relatives.

Like Arjuna, the drone pilot was readily convinced he was doing his duty. Saving lives.

What he did not anticipate was that all those acts of killing, committed seemingly at a distance, generated emotional consequences, because each hit required a rejection of the human instinct called empathy.

The pilots inner life was mutilated, scarified.

Suppressing our own empathy in the name of duty, in the name of holiness, creates what military psychiatrist Jonathan Shay has termed 'moral injury.'

Obeying a tyrannical leader and suppressing the most urgent and tender of parental instincts for the welfare of one's children -- I dare ask whether this may create long term moral injury.

The pilot describes how he came to enter a zombie state, each time he
arrived at work.

[quote"..]But at first, he believed that the mission was vital, that drones were capable of limiting the suffering of war, of saving lives.

When this notion conflicted with the things he witnessed in high resolution from two miles above, he tried to put it out of his mind. Over time he found that the job made him numb: a zombie mode he slipped into as easily as his flight suit.[/quote]

Is this emotional petrification the outcome of suppressing empathy in the name of duty?

What happens in an entire community based upon the well rehearsed suppression of empathy in the name of duty?

Emotional scarification via sanctification?

A zombie is not in a state where sanctification is possible.

Empathy is gone, or in deep freeze.

A final quote from this article.

Quote

"By 2011, Bryant had logged nearly 6,000 hours of flight time, flown hundreds of missions, targeted hundreds of enemies. He was in what he describes as a fugue state of mind. At the entrance to his flight headquarters in Clovis, in front of a large bulletin board, plastered with photographs of targets like al-Awlaki, he looked up at the faces and asked:

"What motherfucker's gonna die today?"

It seemed like someone else's voice was speaking, some dark alter ego.

"I knew I had to get out".
"

To do his duty, via a multitude of acts which suppressed his empathy, this modern Arjuna had so fractured his inner self that part of it was speaking
as though it was a separate voice, a separate self.

So, is it possible that some inner voice experiences may be a sign that we
are in a set up where our self has been cracked and fractured through moral
conflict imposed by an anti-human command?

In a badly run spiritual group, inner voice experiences may be viewed as demonic attacks, when they just might be the voices of anguished conscience produced by living within that same badly run group.

The number of people this pilot assisted in killing before he resigned: A number worthy of the Mahabharata.

Quote

By the spring of 2011, almost six years after he'd signed on, Senior Airman Brandon Bryant left the Air Force, turning down a $109,000 bonus to keep flying. He was presented with a sort of scorecard covering his squadron's missions. "They gave me a list of achievements," he says. "Enemies killed, enemies captured, high-value targets killed or captured, stuff like that."

He called it his diploma. He hadn't lased the target or pulled the trigger on all of the deaths tallied, but by flying in the missions he felt he had enabled them.

"The number,"he says, "made me sick to my stomach."

Total enemies killed in action: 1,626.

Krishna would have told him his compassion was unmanly, cowardly, product of a mind in delusion.

So. back to the "godhead" readers.

Krishna

Srila Prabhupada

Jagadguru Chris Butler

Chris Butler's world.

Do we want it to be our world?

Get out and vote. Especially if you live in Hawaii.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 10:27PM by corboy.

Dharmabum wrote on Date: July 23, 2015 08:18AM

[forum.culteducation.com]

"....when it comes to posting, the most we could do really is to consciously find a balance."

Here is a suggestion on how to attempt balance.

Provide the kind of information that can be utilized by journalists, attorneys and those who provide advocacy and support for children.

The kind of material that can be viewed, photographed, documented, weighed on a scale.

Material that will be taken into account by voters, that can be used by journalists -- and if necessary, by a grand jury or a congressional committee.

Examples:

* First hand accounts from those who have left SOI.

* Medical records of health consequences for those deprived of ready
access to medical care vs. what Butler enjoys.

* Financial records.

* Photographs

* Articles already published on reputable news sources.

* Letters

* Public records - passports, marriage licenses, marriage certificates, wills, trusts, property titles and transfers, financial ledgers, investment records, court
records, documentation of time spent in prison, ownership of property -- and much, much more.