Mike Gabbard is not a family member but is so connected with Butler that he was entrusted to run the Honolulu temple at the current Science of Identity office and was put in charge of the dieties (along with his wife Carol aka Deva hutti dasi) there. Being put in charge of dieties is a really big deal in the cult. If I recall correctly, those were the same dieties from Kauai.

`......Mike Gabbard is not a famaly member`...
In he world of the Hare Krishna cult ....BUTLER included ... the spiritual master become a sort of surugate father ...When I became SWAMI
at the age of 21 I was told to write my parents ...THAT FROM NOW ON THEY WHERE AS GOOD AS DEAD FOR ME ...my beloved parents
where devastated and tought they would never see me again ...I completely dissapear for 5 years .
That is how the brainwash work.So in a way Butler is way more important to fanatics followers than biological parents.
The guru is as GOOD AS GOD the Hare Krishna scriptures proclaim ...and when you become an initiated disciple of a guru like BUTLER
the disciple is made to beleive that his way to liberation MOKSHA and his or her ...mental ...emotional and spiritual wellbeing now all depend on how he or she can please the guru ...and in BUTLER case making sure that 25% of income goes to Mr Univers.....its all part of the process .Who gives 25% of their income to a biological parents .......So in conclusion the brainwashing make the guru way more important than a biological father or mother.In this case TULSI is a brainwash disciple along with her brainwash parents ......so they can be dear to each others because they all adore BUTLER together ..........that scenario did not exist in Swami Bhaktivedanta time.Its a very complex psychological set up especially if you take into consideration that disciples of BUTLER are expected to find a wife or a husband that also will adore BUTLER.......who as created a mythical personnality SRILA PRABHUPAD JAGAT GURU PARAMAHANSA ....and only shows videos of himself tape 25 years ago ......Its just a freaking scam ..but the money and adoration is still pouring in
As of today 2000 people have view my original video ......and thousands more the other videos
This forum and my videos hopefully will stop some of the new possible recruits .....to get initiated and get into the grip of a meglomeniac
that will shamelessly scew them.

Just ran across this mainstream article- everyone who can, should add to the comments and link back to this thread:
[www.huffingtonpost.com]

I recently mentioned a legal tie between a dummy corporation of Down To Earth and the Butler family. Everyone knows that DTE somehow funnels money to Chris Butler. This might be one possibility to research within the public records. The corporation is RKNG LLC and DTE’s top man, Mark Fergusson, is involved with RKNG. Fergusson is also the top guy at Healthy’s Inc., the parent company of DTE. Healthy’s Inc filed a financing statement in 2008 for a property owned by members of the Butler family. Also, RKNG is listed as a fee owner of the same property since 2010. You can send me a private message if you need the address and other details for research.

Speaking of the Butler family, I don’t know if this obituary of Chris Butler’s father was ever posted on our forum.

[archives.starbulletin.com]

“Dr. Willis Butler practiced medicine in Hawaii for more than 50 years and worked just as long as an advocate for peace and a critic of the federal government's penchant for war… He is survived by sons Chris, Kurt and Bruce; daughter Penny Warnholtz of Eugene, Ore.; and five grandchildren.”

I suppose that Dr. Butler, who was an anti-war activist for much of his life, would not be proud of his son, Chris, sending Tulsi Gabbard off to war just to increase her chances in politics.

Also, I have recently located Chris Butler’s family members and will send a private message to dabcult with details urging him to attempt to interview one or more of them about the guru of the family.

TULSI SPEAKS AT DEM CONVENTION

RIDING HIGH WITH PELOSI

LA Times reports Tulsi is a "Hindu". At the end of the article is the email of the writer for the Los Angeles Times. Kim Geiger needs some enlightening on the definition of "Hindu" and what "service" is really all about in the Gabbard family.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2012 05:24PM by Vera City.

MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM SHOULD IMMEDIATLY WRITE MRS GINGER to corraborate my testimonial


Dear Mrs Ginger ............kim.geiger@latimes.com

In your article about TULSI Gabbard you give the impression that Tulsi Gabbard is HINDU because her mother is HINDU .

THAT IS FALSE

The reality is that TULSI and her father(who claim falsely to be Catholic ) and mother are disciples of CHRIS BUTLER the leader of the ..Science of Identy .. a HARE

KRISHNA sub cult who join the cult 35 years ago .

Chris Butler is a meglomeniac leader of a destructive cult that as use slave labour for years on end ...as been engage in Hawaii politic for 35 years

including trying to set up senator Inouye in a fail sex scandal ...Butler requires disciples to give him 25% of their income to maintain his extravagant luxurious lifestyle.

Butler as use for years slave labour in his 3 mansions in Hawaii and is multiple entreprises worldwide ......Butler as given his disciples his toes and hand clippings

to eat as Catholics eat the holy communion ......When some of his merried disciples have divorce because one of the partner did not beleive in BUTLER holyness

some of the childrens where simply kidnap and sent from Hawaii to BUTLER centers in the Philipinne. Mike Gabbard with CHRIS BUTLER have spread hateful propaganga

againts the gay and lesbian community for many years on the Hawaii radio and television programs

So in conclusion Mrs Ginger the BUTLER cult would like to make America beleive that TULSI GABBARD is a HINDU but in reality she is a member of a destructive cult th

that exist only to worship Chris Butler.............please investigate ....read the RICK ROSS forum decicated to expose CHRIS BUTLER who call himself

Jagat guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahansa

Thank you
Henry Jolicoeur
french psychotherapist that as investigate deeply the Chris Butler cult

First I want to thank you Vera for treating me as a person rather than as some "crazy blind follower" I appreciate the respect as I am sure some of the other people reading this are probably in the same situation I am in.

I completely agree with you that I should use my critical thinking and reasoning rather than accepting anything blindly either from Jagad Guru or from yourself or anybody else. So I would greatly appreciate it f you can provide me with some evidence of your claim that;

Quote
Vera City

“There is only one initiating guru in the parampara at a time, which is passed on by the previous acharya.”


Could you please tell me where you got this from? I have heard some people teach this; however the reality seems to contradict it.

For example, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati (the guru of Bhaktivedanta Swami) had many disciples and a good number of them (including Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami) initiated disciples. As you may know, Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami was not appointed as “the next acharya,” yet Bhaktivedanta Swami obviously initiated many disciples into the parampara represented by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. You were saying that “there is only one initiating guru in the parampara at a time,” so how do you explain that Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, who was not appointed by Bhaktisiddhanta, and many other disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta, (like Sridhara Maharaja, Puri Maharaja, etc.,) all initiated many disciples?

Also connected to this you say;

Quote
Vera City

“ACB did not select one disciple to continue the line before his death, this is the tradition that Butler broke when he took the role for himself”


From everything I have heard Jagad Guru say or read, I have never come across anything where he claims he is "the one" who is the exclusive Guru in the disciplic line. Everything I have read of Jagad Guru’s and what I have heard from his disciples is that it is the responsibility of every disciple of a bona fide spiritual master to do their best to pass on the teachings they have received and understood/realized. The point being is that every sincere, self realized disciple will naturally out of compassion try to share their understanding with others, i.e. act as guru.

Lastly, you say that the Haribol Special was; “artfully written to look like he was the humble and self-evident/self-effulgent next in line.”

After reading your statement I went to the Haribol Special again and not only is there nothing in there where he claims to be "the next in line" but he repeatedly makes it clear that there is no one person who is “next in line” and that if anyone who is looking for a spiritual master wants to know who God’s representative is that they need to check with scripture and with the Lord in the heart.

Haribol Special pg 8
“Krishna is within everyone’s heart as the Paramatama and He will give guidance to those who want guidance.
If a person is sincere, then by Krishna’s grace that person gets a guru.”

Haribol Special pg 5
“Jagad Guru: I am not speaking out against any particular person. I am speaking out against the idea of appointed acharyas. I do not care to criticize my god brothers because if they are trying to give Krishna to others, that is each of their own individual business. This is for Krishna to judge, not me. That will be seen by the fruits of what they are doing...

‘So actually, some of these people may be gurus, but my point is this: if they are gurus, then they are gurus because they are lovers of Krishna and because they have heard purely from their spiritual master. They are not gurus because of some appointment or diploma. They may be so-called “appointed acharyas” and they may not be real acharyas, or they may be so-called “appointed acharyas” and they may be real acharyas. This means that appointment has nothing to do with it; it is based entirely on one’s qualification, one’s purity. Whether or not they are gurus is to be seen by the fruits of their lives...”

Thank you again Vera for your time and consideration of my questions, I look forward to your responses

RestEasy:

Please stay very tightly focused on topic.

The topic of this thread is Chris Bultler and Chris Butler followers.

Do not stray into a discussion about religious issues, theology, guru succession, or gurus generally, which is off topic.

In my experience people interested in subverting this thread have come here to start arguments and/or take a thread off topic.

Dear Rest Easy: You still do not understand.
Chris Butler feeds the populace, pretty flowery words.
Chris Butler, the deeply flawed former drug user, actually does not follow what he preaches.
The real Chris Butler is here, in these pages.
Take the time to read each and every page.
A true Vaishnava would not act the way he has acted, nor would he treat his followers in such a shabby and at times, downright cruel manner.
A true bonifide teacher would be among his flock, not hidden away and resorting to ancient photos and very old videos made in the 80's to continue his money making schemes. Where are the new interviews, the newest writings? Public speaking engagements?
Read this thread. They refer to his power over hs minions as the "Cult of Butler" for a reason.

Vox, if there was a "LIKE" button here, it would be for your last post. =)

Quote
RestEasy


From everything I have heard Jagad Guru say or read,....[FILL IN THE BLANK] and what I have heard from his disciples is ....[FILL IN THE BLANK]....

The point is that you are only are getting information about Butler from Butler or his followers. It is like getting information about a politician from his press secretary or about a felon from his criminal defense lawyer. It is never the truth.

The problem lies in that this word SINCERE is used in a very manipulative way. If you are "sincere" then surely you will see what his followers see. They say to check guru, shastra, and the "Lord in your heart". That is the only validation. If you are not "sincere", then you won't see what the followers supposedly see. You will need to conclude that you are lacking or not good enough and no one wants to admit to that! This method of validation is flatly a coersive tactic. They know that the "lord in the heart" can mean anything; an imagination, an emotion, a feeling, a delusion. How many times have you been ripped off by someone you just "knew" was a good person at one time. It is not a good bull shit meter.

I wrote you that what Butler writes and preaches is far different than what he actually does. There is also a great difference between what he says to the public and what he preaches to his inner circle.

There are over 300 hundred pages on this forum from witnesses who have decades of direct experience with Butler. Many had close association and were devoted loyalists like you. They all suffered the damages and disparities between what was preached and the reality of being under Butler's dominion.

A debate about disciplic succession is not the point. The point is that he and his group are just another destructive culture that takes advantage of people who are unwilling or unable to question and examine the discrepancies.

I suggest that before you go futher that you have the courage to read this forum and take advantage of Rick Ross's resources here. If you are not allowed or if you are fearful for your spiritual life to read information on this website, then you are in a destructive cult.

TEN WARNING SIGNS YOU ARE IN A DANGEROUS CULT

Take a good look at the many articles on this link. If you can hold Butler up to this scrutiny, then you are truly using your critical thinking skills and not following blindly.

BRAINWASHING? UNDUE COERSION?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2012 07:28AM by Vera City.