On the beach
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: August 29, 2012 02:33AM
For what it is worth, my contacts are with people who have left the cult two and three decades ago plus some ex kids who are now thirty something. I am sure much has changed while many things have remained the same. So my words are only IMHO (In My Humble Opinion).
Regarding the beach incident, first you would need to think of what would be viewed as a "medical procedure" that needed licensing and would alarm a medical doctor. One of my friends suggested acupuncture, as this was Butler's preferred mode of therapy.
Massages every night by male disciples, Chinese medicine, and acupuncture are historically what Butler used. He instructed one of his Brazilian disciples in the 1980's to get his acupuncture license. I believe his name was Rommel who married another follower on Butler's command. He did complete his studies. Butler wanted only initiated and trusted followers in his company and direct service. I do not know if this follower is still in Hawaii serving Butler.
An exer told me that they had given Butler a fine set of acupuncture needles and moxa sticks. This pleased him very much. He knew how to administer the needles to himself and was very knowledgeable about the art of acupuncture. He would teach his followers which points to massage and for what reason. He was well read and possessed several books and many acupuncture charts. This exer witnessed Butler instructing close disciples to assist him with some treatments for which they were not licensed. It was considered a normal practice. He probably would have made a good Chinese medical doctor himself. But of course the lure of “gurudom” was more appealing to his narcissistic spirit.
Butler did use traditional medicine when needed. He did have a disciple/ physician who left him when he discovered that Chris was a fraud as a guru. (As reported on You Tube). There was one incident where Butler was very ill during the Independents for Godly Government campaign. He had a follower call his Dad anonymously to get a prescription of antibiotics. Kathy Hoshijo was there but did not want to make the call and be revealed that the two were living in the same house during her campaign (Dr. Butler knew Kathy well). She was in the middle of her campaign (which Dr. Butler supported as written in his book Barbara. It is unclear if he knew how much his son was involved in masterminding the whole IGG affair. Knowing his father's extreme involvement in leftist politics, Chris probably feared being revealed. From the phone call he obviously had no idea where Chris was or what he was doing.) This follower told me of being so surprised and moved by the care and compassion in his father's voice. The elder Butler related that he had not heard from his son in a very long time. He was clearly pained by this fact. Dr. Butler asked to pass on the message that he loved and missed his son very much. This was a little crack in the brainwashing for the young follower. Having been led to believe that Butler's father was a monstrous, materialistic, meat devouring demon! The follower found him kind and gentle and clearly worried about his son. Siddha was caught in a lie…
Back to the beach. A medical doctor would have been alarmed by the use of needles on the beach (unsanitary conditions). He may have been concerned about Butler's health and gone over to help. He probably asked questions of the obviously doting, subservient followers regarding their qualifications. But unless Butler himself makes a complaint, the police will not do a thing about it. While it is a crime to practice medicine without a license, it is probably a misdeamenor in this case. Butler would not be busted for a thing. His follower would suffer any consequences.
It is also ludicrous to think that Butler could be arrested for practicing hypnosis without a license. Unless he is claiming to provide a service under the jurisdiction of psychological and health care provider’s boards, it is not illegal. Entertainers, Stage Hypnotists, self-hypnosis coaches and trainers may practice hypnosis without a license. Even psychic sleep, if still practiced, could be considered as "entertainment" and a religious practice protected by the Bill of Rights in these United States. If Butler or his followers claim to "cure" addictions or homosexuality, do past life regressions, or other psychological/ health claims, then a case could possibly be made.
One way to expose Butler is to keep this forum going, with all of its great resources for help and research on cults available. In time, more and more truth will come out.
Regarding the beach incident, first you would need to think of what would be viewed as a "medical procedure" that needed licensing and would alarm a medical doctor. One of my friends suggested acupuncture, as this was Butler's preferred mode of therapy.
Massages every night by male disciples, Chinese medicine, and acupuncture are historically what Butler used. He instructed one of his Brazilian disciples in the 1980's to get his acupuncture license. I believe his name was Rommel who married another follower on Butler's command. He did complete his studies. Butler wanted only initiated and trusted followers in his company and direct service. I do not know if this follower is still in Hawaii serving Butler.
An exer told me that they had given Butler a fine set of acupuncture needles and moxa sticks. This pleased him very much. He knew how to administer the needles to himself and was very knowledgeable about the art of acupuncture. He would teach his followers which points to massage and for what reason. He was well read and possessed several books and many acupuncture charts. This exer witnessed Butler instructing close disciples to assist him with some treatments for which they were not licensed. It was considered a normal practice. He probably would have made a good Chinese medical doctor himself. But of course the lure of “gurudom” was more appealing to his narcissistic spirit.
Butler did use traditional medicine when needed. He did have a disciple/ physician who left him when he discovered that Chris was a fraud as a guru. (As reported on You Tube). There was one incident where Butler was very ill during the Independents for Godly Government campaign. He had a follower call his Dad anonymously to get a prescription of antibiotics. Kathy Hoshijo was there but did not want to make the call and be revealed that the two were living in the same house during her campaign (Dr. Butler knew Kathy well). She was in the middle of her campaign (which Dr. Butler supported as written in his book Barbara. It is unclear if he knew how much his son was involved in masterminding the whole IGG affair. Knowing his father's extreme involvement in leftist politics, Chris probably feared being revealed. From the phone call he obviously had no idea where Chris was or what he was doing.) This follower told me of being so surprised and moved by the care and compassion in his father's voice. The elder Butler related that he had not heard from his son in a very long time. He was clearly pained by this fact. Dr. Butler asked to pass on the message that he loved and missed his son very much. This was a little crack in the brainwashing for the young follower. Having been led to believe that Butler's father was a monstrous, materialistic, meat devouring demon! The follower found him kind and gentle and clearly worried about his son. Siddha was caught in a lie…
Back to the beach. A medical doctor would have been alarmed by the use of needles on the beach (unsanitary conditions). He may have been concerned about Butler's health and gone over to help. He probably asked questions of the obviously doting, subservient followers regarding their qualifications. But unless Butler himself makes a complaint, the police will not do a thing about it. While it is a crime to practice medicine without a license, it is probably a misdeamenor in this case. Butler would not be busted for a thing. His follower would suffer any consequences.
It is also ludicrous to think that Butler could be arrested for practicing hypnosis without a license. Unless he is claiming to provide a service under the jurisdiction of psychological and health care provider’s boards, it is not illegal. Entertainers, Stage Hypnotists, self-hypnosis coaches and trainers may practice hypnosis without a license. Even psychic sleep, if still practiced, could be considered as "entertainment" and a religious practice protected by the Bill of Rights in these United States. If Butler or his followers claim to "cure" addictions or homosexuality, do past life regressions, or other psychological/ health claims, then a case could possibly be made.
One way to expose Butler is to keep this forum going, with all of its great resources for help and research on cults available. In time, more and more truth will come out.
Cat is Out of the Bag. Tulsi tells the truth
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: August 29, 2012 03:04AM
The cat is out of the bag. Though not reported by the mainstream media, or thought of to be significant by them, Tulsi has publicly and on the record revealed that she is a follower of Chris Butler. Now voters can make an informed choice. She is actually in a good position to be scrutinized. If she keeps her tail clean, why not? No one can fault her birth or how she was raised. Our attention has forced her to tell the truth about her background and support system. That is what I wanted. She will now be judged by her deeds. How much of a pawn of Butler she is remains to be seen. If she makes enemies or gets too much power, her cult background will be a card to play. If she runs with the big dogs they will know how to expose Butler if she does not play nice with others.
I have often thought that it just might be Mike and Carol Gabbard who have played Butler after years of insults, control, and abuse from him. It is possible that Mike has been built his career using the example and modus operandi of his guru. Just as Butler built his empire on the back and credibility of ACB’s parampara, the Gabbard's have built a political wing using old Butler’s back. Has he turned the tables on Butler after all? It takes a con to know a con. It takes one self-promoting narcissist to know another one. Politics is actually a more intelligent and easier career for such an individual than "guruhood", especially since there can only be one ”guru of the universe” at a time. Let’s see what Tulsi does with her career ...?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2012 03:10AM by Vera City.
I have often thought that it just might be Mike and Carol Gabbard who have played Butler after years of insults, control, and abuse from him. It is possible that Mike has been built his career using the example and modus operandi of his guru. Just as Butler built his empire on the back and credibility of ACB’s parampara, the Gabbard's have built a political wing using old Butler’s back. Has he turned the tables on Butler after all? It takes a con to know a con. It takes one self-promoting narcissist to know another one. Politics is actually a more intelligent and easier career for such an individual than "guruhood", especially since there can only be one ”guru of the universe” at a time. Let’s see what Tulsi does with her career ...?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2012 03:10AM by Vera City.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
dabcult
()
Date: August 29, 2012 07:43AM
Where as Tulsi said that she is a disciple of \BUTLER ....on record you said VERA ....WHERE?
Re: Cat is Out of the Bag. Tulsi tells the truth
Posted by:
VitaminC
()
Date: August 29, 2012 09:28AM
Quote
Vera City
The cat is out of the bag. Though not reported by the mainstream media, or thought of to be significant by them, Tulsi has publicly and on the record revealed that she is a follower of Chris Butler. Now voters can make an informed choice.
They key word here is "informed." The voters need to know about her ties to Chris Butler, and who he is and what he does for them to be considered informed for them to make an informed decision. The vast majority of the public gets their information not from forums that focus on cults, but through mainstream media such as TV, Radio and newspapers.
So, unless theres no mass distribution of this declaration and what it really means, then we have made no progress whatsoever and her admission will simply not matter to anyone as they cannot comprehend what that means or how it affects them. Her discipl..I mean, campaign supporters, are completely enamored with her. They dont want to believe anything that goes against the illusions that she has painted for them. After all, shes a war veteran, the youngest person to hold political office in Hawaii and yadda yadda yadda... That whole underdog come from behind win against the more well known candidates in the primaries will make them even more of a glassy eyed deer in the headlights follower who will accept anything she says and condemn anything anyone says against her as being politically motivated (Its the Karmie version of being demonic)
There needs to be more done to PUBLICLY expose her. Exposing her on the Rick Ross forums does very little, if nothing. Like it was said in previous posts, we are mostly unverifiable posters, and taking information from "random blogs," as someone once told me, and reposting it here. The problem is that the media wont touch that with a 50 foot pole out of fear of looking politically motivated, petty, slanderous/libelous, and wont put their "journalistic integrity" at risk for attacking a candidate for the US Congress (a person, who lets admit it, Kawika Crowley isnt winning the election, will be in the near future will be holding a lot of power). The risk of a political and public backlash for the media is too great for them to cover this without solid, verifiable, substantiated and indisputable proof.
Rumors, possibly biased blog posts, and heresay wont cut it for them.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: August 29, 2012 10:14AM
Quote
privateye
India Abroad July 27, 2012
In this article Tulsi Gabbard gives her connection as a disciple of Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa.
Quote
dharmabum
He can and will be defeated. Its only a matter of time, and time is something he may be running out of.
...
Close up of article
Hey privateye, thanks for the link, that is so far the best material about Tulsi's involvement with the Science of Identity.
You may contend that it is a publication with low circulation, however, it is now "official" and can easily be picked up by the mainstream media, which is what they do by the way ~ pilage other news agencies and social media. I would also argue that blogs and forums are not ignored and do amount to something. A good percentage of people get their news on the internet while newspapers, radio, and even television are sinking.
I don't underestimate the power or credibility of this forum. The mainstream media depends on the same sorts of sources that are here. There is no real difference. The cult has been an open secret in Hawaii for decades. The problem is that the media does not want to deal with it for a variety of reasons discussed ad infinitum on this forum.
To denigrate this forum is counterproductive. If you want to do more, like start another website or make videos, go for it. Don't waste your time and energy by trying to depreciate the long efforts and writing of the many good people on this forum. Many people have benefited from the testimonies and resources here. Truthful reports relating life in the cult are recognized and validated by those who have needed corroboration. As far as getting the media motivated in Hawaii, I would not give up, but I also would not devalue the work done so far on this forum.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2012 10:29AM by Vera City.
Re: Cat is Out of the Bag. Tulsi tells the truth
Posted by:
VoxVeritasVita Das
()
Date: August 29, 2012 02:25PM
Quote
Vera City
The cat is out of the bag. Though not reported by the mainstream media, or thought of to be significant by them, Tulsi has publicly and on the record revealed that she is a follower of Chris Butler. Now voters can make an informed choice. She is actually in a good position to be scrutinized. If she keeps her tail clean, why not? No one can fault her birth or how she was raised. Our attention has forced her to tell the truth about her background and support system. That is what I wanted. She will now be judged by her deeds. How much of a pawn of Butler she is remains to be seen. If she makes enemies or gets too much power, her cult background will be a card to play. If she runs with the big dogs they will know how to expose Butler if she does not play nice with others. " End quote.
Vera, spot on. As I mentioned before she will not be able to escape these nearly 400 pages.
I also agree it is counterproductive to denigrate the validity of this forum. These last few years have seen people responding to what we have written especially if they are researching this cult. If nothing else, it might be that we may have saved a few hapless souls from being conned by this man. And perhaps saved a family or two from the misery we survived. If you want people to notice, you must expose this cult on the mainland. Looks like the island media outlets might be tainted and untrustworthy therefore they cannot be counted on to deliver the truth. What Tulsi or her dad end up doing with their new-found power is up for speculation, however three decades of corruption, lies and the destruction of families cannot be ignored.
Re: Cat is Out of the Bag. Tulsi tells the truth
Posted by:
flashlight_on_roaches
()
Date: August 30, 2012 06:02AM
I wouldn’t be so confident that the cat is out of the bag regarding the cult background of Tulsi Gabbard. Although I agree it is wrong to denigrate the validity of this forum, we have only forced Tulsi to plant a few obscure articles for future use. She can always deny the facts later since she is never directly quoted as being Hindu or a follower of Chris Butler. However, if the truth does come out, she can say she never hid the facts while pointing to these articles as proof. It gives the appearance that Tulsi Gabbard used a political “fixer” when this forum and all the inbound links seemed likely to expose her background.
If mainstream media ever accurately reports her cult upbringing mentioning Chris Butler by name, it will be cause for celebration.
If mainstream media ever accurately reports her cult upbringing mentioning Chris Butler by name, it will be cause for celebration.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
dharmabum
()
Date: August 30, 2012 11:30PM
Getting back to the basic. This forum started first as a venue for people to provide education and information about Chris Butler and his religious cult, the Science of Identity. Incidentally, it's understandable, exposing Tulsi's connection with the cult becomes the focus, since she's a high-profile personality from the cult, but should not be the sole purpose of or the obsession of this forum. I can't help noticing some people are becoming overzealous about Tulsi to the point of becoming too personal with attacks and demanding loyalty from others. Are you kidding me? I've learned my lesson as a former cult member: I will never be loyal to anybody. My loyalty belongs to Truth alone. Truth can sometimes work frustratingly slow, especially with matters that seem less important to many. But seekers of Truth are tenacious, they will seep through irrelevant matters, and find the gems they look for; but it would be of great help if they could dig through less dirt on this forum.
This forum degraded to a sort of a madhouse before, and many contributors left disgusted. Some were accused of being trolls and spies for Butler, and identities were even revealed, endangering their lives and loved ones still involved in the cult. This is when the credibility and integrity of this forum suffered and were at its lowest point, I'm not even sure if we have recovered; and when Butler himself ended up laughing to see his detractors at each others' throats. I'm just hoping we don't get there again.
There are very few people left after that fiasco, and posters have become more suspicious with one another. I just want to remind posters here how ruthless Chris Butler is to detractors, and I've witnessed many lives suffered and were continually harassed after their covers were blown, for simply opposing the cult's views. Our identities here are protected and should remain sacred. I caution people planning to put up another website to be extra cautious about their identities. There are technical bylaws in securing identities which Mr. Ross is very good at. I'm just not sure if anyone, without the credential and robust technological knowledge like this site could provide the same security for people's identities not be revealed or become susceptible to hacking. In the past, there were attempts to hack this site and another opposed to Butler. This site survived, the other did not.
My issues with the cult is consistent. More than Tulsi, more than the Gabbards and other royalties of the cult. First and foremost is about the children born into the cult; secondly, those goodhearted people who are still members of the cult, who honestly seek Truth but were haplessly misled. The rank-and-file mostly who are the true victims of Butler's empire; and lastly, for ex-members to become more involved in educating the public of the dangers of religious cults and deceptive gurus like Chris Butler.
If we are to coax people to get out of the cult we have to set an example and not be the very reason they got into cults in the first place. If we have truly rejected the cult, we should also have rejected what comes with it, If we are to invite other exers to participate actively and stay, let's not turn this forum into a madhouse for the sole purpose of badmouthing and nothing more. The children are thought and constantly deceived that outside the walls are mean people and to not trust even those showing them love.
I'm still in touch with people in the cult, what I observed is disturbing yet they are just like anybody else; there are crooks and there are the sincerest people you could meet on Earth. But as soon as I open my mouth with anything that pertains to cults or touches beliefs, they automatically shut off their brains as they are conditioned to do so. They will not elaborate or argue. They seem to get it that what they are living by is a lie, yet are seem content in the smaller world they live in than to become one of the outsiders. I make progress by just showing them what it is like to live with and enjoy freedom, and they respond most to love and compassion. This I share not to set direction, just to show a glimpse of what is maybe unique to them among religious cults. First of, the followers don't believe theirs is a cult, and they seem to see themselves as above others. By showing people in the cult I'm still in touch with that they are so ignorant with so many things, not by arguing, but by common-sense functions and getting to good things they are forbidden to get to, they seem to do just fine. The joy of having freedom to do what you want to pursue in life, from what I observed is what the followers are mostly attracted to; and endless theological debate is the opposite.
I really don't care if the media are not interested in this issue; they have their own corporate priorities and spaces on prints and sites are a premium meant more for news that could bring in more money. I also don't care about bipartisan politics that are driven more not by common sense and honest policies but by packaged eye candies they can defeat the other side with. Tulsi and her cult, they are just contradicting themselves. What I do care about is to make sense to the people in the paragraph above and this forum is all I have in my personal battle with the Science of Identity and cults in general; the only house I seem comfortable in expressing my thoughts and at the same time remain anonymous to the public. It would be nice if there's someone who could police us, but that would be against the freedom we are supposed to be championing by. If we are to be recognized by the world as ex-cult followers that have got something meaningful to contribute to society, let that be our wisdom, our freedom and our compassion to the world, especially to cult members in a more general sense. We may just have to get back to the basic from time to time, and not get easily swept by high-octane emotions I get lately from this forum. Instead discuss more about matter-of-factly subjects that ordinary people can relate to. If we are truly to champion freedom yet behave the same way like the people we criticize, we are contradicting ourselves.
If you are to fight superstition, you have to stick to science and at the same time are capable of showing compassion, otherwise the fight becomes meaningless.
This forum degraded to a sort of a madhouse before, and many contributors left disgusted. Some were accused of being trolls and spies for Butler, and identities were even revealed, endangering their lives and loved ones still involved in the cult. This is when the credibility and integrity of this forum suffered and were at its lowest point, I'm not even sure if we have recovered; and when Butler himself ended up laughing to see his detractors at each others' throats. I'm just hoping we don't get there again.
There are very few people left after that fiasco, and posters have become more suspicious with one another. I just want to remind posters here how ruthless Chris Butler is to detractors, and I've witnessed many lives suffered and were continually harassed after their covers were blown, for simply opposing the cult's views. Our identities here are protected and should remain sacred. I caution people planning to put up another website to be extra cautious about their identities. There are technical bylaws in securing identities which Mr. Ross is very good at. I'm just not sure if anyone, without the credential and robust technological knowledge like this site could provide the same security for people's identities not be revealed or become susceptible to hacking. In the past, there were attempts to hack this site and another opposed to Butler. This site survived, the other did not.
My issues with the cult is consistent. More than Tulsi, more than the Gabbards and other royalties of the cult. First and foremost is about the children born into the cult; secondly, those goodhearted people who are still members of the cult, who honestly seek Truth but were haplessly misled. The rank-and-file mostly who are the true victims of Butler's empire; and lastly, for ex-members to become more involved in educating the public of the dangers of religious cults and deceptive gurus like Chris Butler.
If we are to coax people to get out of the cult we have to set an example and not be the very reason they got into cults in the first place. If we have truly rejected the cult, we should also have rejected what comes with it, If we are to invite other exers to participate actively and stay, let's not turn this forum into a madhouse for the sole purpose of badmouthing and nothing more. The children are thought and constantly deceived that outside the walls are mean people and to not trust even those showing them love.
I'm still in touch with people in the cult, what I observed is disturbing yet they are just like anybody else; there are crooks and there are the sincerest people you could meet on Earth. But as soon as I open my mouth with anything that pertains to cults or touches beliefs, they automatically shut off their brains as they are conditioned to do so. They will not elaborate or argue. They seem to get it that what they are living by is a lie, yet are seem content in the smaller world they live in than to become one of the outsiders. I make progress by just showing them what it is like to live with and enjoy freedom, and they respond most to love and compassion. This I share not to set direction, just to show a glimpse of what is maybe unique to them among religious cults. First of, the followers don't believe theirs is a cult, and they seem to see themselves as above others. By showing people in the cult I'm still in touch with that they are so ignorant with so many things, not by arguing, but by common-sense functions and getting to good things they are forbidden to get to, they seem to do just fine. The joy of having freedom to do what you want to pursue in life, from what I observed is what the followers are mostly attracted to; and endless theological debate is the opposite.
I really don't care if the media are not interested in this issue; they have their own corporate priorities and spaces on prints and sites are a premium meant more for news that could bring in more money. I also don't care about bipartisan politics that are driven more not by common sense and honest policies but by packaged eye candies they can defeat the other side with. Tulsi and her cult, they are just contradicting themselves. What I do care about is to make sense to the people in the paragraph above and this forum is all I have in my personal battle with the Science of Identity and cults in general; the only house I seem comfortable in expressing my thoughts and at the same time remain anonymous to the public. It would be nice if there's someone who could police us, but that would be against the freedom we are supposed to be championing by. If we are to be recognized by the world as ex-cult followers that have got something meaningful to contribute to society, let that be our wisdom, our freedom and our compassion to the world, especially to cult members in a more general sense. We may just have to get back to the basic from time to time, and not get easily swept by high-octane emotions I get lately from this forum. Instead discuss more about matter-of-factly subjects that ordinary people can relate to. If we are truly to champion freedom yet behave the same way like the people we criticize, we are contradicting ourselves.
If you are to fight superstition, you have to stick to science and at the same time are capable of showing compassion, otherwise the fight becomes meaningless.
Not Holding My Breath waiting for The media to get it
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: August 30, 2012 11:54PM
In what do I have no confidence? I have no confidence in the mainstream media. They think substance is reporting the new GOP vice presidential candidates BMI (body fat measurement percentages) and have yet to exhaust reporting of his driving of the Oscar Meyer Weiner Mobile as a young man. News divisions across network platforms can be counted on to give daily reports on one of the Kardashians and R Pats over voting records and substantive news. Intelligent political discourse in a democracy is a myth in mainstream media, so I would not hold my breath waiting for them to report on the Gabbard's connection to the Cult of Butler. Even Gabbard opponents think it is irrelevant.
Tulsi's background has been exposed. That cat is not going back in the bag again. Tulsi, very smartly, has acknowledged being a "Vaishnava" looking forward to visiting Vrndavan. She just spins it in a very pluralistic way. No one is going to attack an individual’s right to freedom of religion in these United States. You can’t fault her for being born into a cult. She can only be judged by her words, deeds and voting record.
A friend commented to me that he remembered Mike as a very proud and ambitious man. While submissive to Butler, he was not one to clean his toilets or live as a celibate monk in a sleeping bag in the crawl space of the infamous Warehouse. A proud man can only be pushed so far before he leaves or takes advantage of the situation. I am of the opinion that consciously or unconsciously he made his success in politics by walking on the back of Butler. I think there is a wicked poetic justice in this. But Butler was paid well for his services. For Mike Gabbard, perhaps after losing a business, having a son come out, experiencing a tremendous back lash from the gay and lesbian community, coupled with a daughter with more worldly experience than most cult kids (college and military experience), the back-pedaling may have been a redemptive response. It may not be for the right reasons, only for political gain, but what matters is the final outcome.
Tulsi's public apology for hurting people by her prejudicial comments and acknowledgement of being a member of the Gaudiya Vaishnava line is impressive. (Remember, in her mind it is not a harmful cult.) The task now is to find the Cult's controlling interest in Tulsi's voting record, speeches, and actions. If it is not in the public interest, then there should be a great outcry. She knows she is being watched.
All efforts to expose the harmful effects of Butler's dangerous cult must continue here and elsewhere. Tulsi has suffered too from being raised in the cult, but not in the same ways as many other followers. Her wings were not clipped. She did not lose her family, livelihood, resources, opportunities and talents to the PrabhuFraud. (Maybe she suffered her brother's shunning...). I challenge Tulsi to live up to her campaign ads; to live a life of truth, to look at the Butler group As It Is. But then, I'm not holding my breath waiting.
Tulsi's background has been exposed. That cat is not going back in the bag again. Tulsi, very smartly, has acknowledged being a "Vaishnava" looking forward to visiting Vrndavan. She just spins it in a very pluralistic way. No one is going to attack an individual’s right to freedom of religion in these United States. You can’t fault her for being born into a cult. She can only be judged by her words, deeds and voting record.
A friend commented to me that he remembered Mike as a very proud and ambitious man. While submissive to Butler, he was not one to clean his toilets or live as a celibate monk in a sleeping bag in the crawl space of the infamous Warehouse. A proud man can only be pushed so far before he leaves or takes advantage of the situation. I am of the opinion that consciously or unconsciously he made his success in politics by walking on the back of Butler. I think there is a wicked poetic justice in this. But Butler was paid well for his services. For Mike Gabbard, perhaps after losing a business, having a son come out, experiencing a tremendous back lash from the gay and lesbian community, coupled with a daughter with more worldly experience than most cult kids (college and military experience), the back-pedaling may have been a redemptive response. It may not be for the right reasons, only for political gain, but what matters is the final outcome.
Tulsi's public apology for hurting people by her prejudicial comments and acknowledgement of being a member of the Gaudiya Vaishnava line is impressive. (Remember, in her mind it is not a harmful cult.) The task now is to find the Cult's controlling interest in Tulsi's voting record, speeches, and actions. If it is not in the public interest, then there should be a great outcry. She knows she is being watched.
All efforts to expose the harmful effects of Butler's dangerous cult must continue here and elsewhere. Tulsi has suffered too from being raised in the cult, but not in the same ways as many other followers. Her wings were not clipped. She did not lose her family, livelihood, resources, opportunities and talents to the PrabhuFraud. (Maybe she suffered her brother's shunning...). I challenge Tulsi to live up to her campaign ads; to live a life of truth, to look at the Butler group As It Is. But then, I'm not holding my breath waiting.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: August 31, 2012 12:30AM
Quote
dharmabum
Getting back to the basic. This forum started first as a venue for people to provide education and information about Chris Butler and his religious cult, the Science of Identity. Incidentally, it's understandable, exposing Tulsi's connection with the cult becomes the focus, since she's a high-profile personality from the cult, but should not be the sole purpose of or the obsession of this forum. I can't help noticing some people are becoming overzealous about Tulsi to the point of becoming too personal with attacks and demanding loyalty from others. Are you kidding me? I've learned my lesson as a former cult member: I will never be loyal to anybody. My loyalty belongs to Truth alone. Truth can sometimes work frustratingly slow... But seekers of Truth are tenacious, they will seep through irrelevant matters, and find the gems they look for; but it would be of great help if they could dig through less dirt on this forum.
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My issues with the cult is consistent. More than Tulsi, more than the Gabbards and other royalties of the cult. First and foremost is about the children born into the cult; secondly, those goodhearted people who are still members of the cult, who honestly seek Truth but were haplessly misled. The rank-and-file mostly who are the true victims of Butler's empire; and lastly, for ex-members to become more involved in educating the public of the dangers of religious cults and deceptive gurus like Chris Butler.
If we are to coax people to get out of the cult we have to set an example and not be the very reason they got into cults in the first place....
If you are to fight superstition, you have to stick to science and at the same time are capable of showing compassion, otherwise the fight becomes meaningless.
Wise words dharmabum. Thanks. This forum is relevant and having an impact. Let's keep it on track.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2012 12:40AM by Vera City.
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