I have not been able to convince some of the regulars here of the need to also work underground. It is imperative to dig much deeper and produce more conclusive proof of this criminal enterprise. Posting publically has been remarkably successful in leading the curious to this message board and informing them of serious allegations. However, no one in the media has yet been willing to publish anything of import and Chris Butler is probably more confident than ever.

Let me offer a scenario that might have worked if a private message board existed at the time. When dabcult first arrived on the scene, we might have secretly recommended that he attempt to meet with Chris Butler as an old, trusted, acquaintance and draw Jagad Guru out on how his cult has been so “successful”. If dabcult wore a wire, had a hidden camera, or was able to video Butler at Waimanalo or Bellows Beach Park, his YouTube video might have had 100,000 views. That is a lost opportunity, but there are many other scenarios to discuss which could lead to a monumental exposure of Chris Butler.

I will continue to post publically and include damning evidence as I find it. Meanwhile, I will make secret plans with those who contact me and who have also proven their loyalties.

What is needed is a web site .....where the essential gross abuses of disciples of Mr Univers is describe (ex disciples testimonials)

I am willing to pay some $$ to get it going if VERA CITY want to manage it (or someone trustwothy amd well spoken as she is )

This forum is great....... but it as become to big and confusing for someone looking for informations.

What is needed is ex disciples willing to go on camera and say clearly ...."I WAS ABUSE THIS WAY AND THAT WAY by the JG cult."

Find them ...commit them .....and I will fly anywhere in the USA to video such interviews at my own expenses ...or do a Skype interview ......whatever happen to that young lady from Australia that was sued by the cult ?

Something dramatic need to happen ...or it just more pages after more pages of .....no real facts

And lets not talk about ...what we could have done ...lets be here and now
love and peace
H

Quote
dabcult
What is needed is a web site .....where the essential gross abuses of disciples of Mr Univers is describe (ex disciples testimonials)

I am willing to pay some $$ to get it going if VERA CITY want to manage it (or someone trustwothy amd well spoken as she is )

This forum is great....... but it as become to big and confusing for someone looking for informations.

What is needed is ex disciples willing to go on camera and say clearly ...."I WAS ABUSE THIS WAY AND THAT WAY by the JG cult."

Find them ...commit them .....and I will fly anywhere in the USA to video such interviews at my own expenses ...or do a Skype interview ......whatever happen to that young lady from Australia that was sued by the cult ?

Something dramatic need to happen ...or it just more pages after more pages of .....no real facts

And lets not talk about ...what we could have done ...lets be here and now
love and peace
H

I agree and also know someone who would pay some $$$$ to record such testamony.

Nothing seems to inflame the public more than allegations of abuse, especially in institutions like churches and schools. The Catholic Church, Penn State, and the cult-followers of Warren Jeffs are but three recent examples.

I recall reading posts on this forum where there were claims of mistreatment of children, woman, and young adults. Certainly, brainwashing comes to mind. Can you all dig deep in your memory and let us know any specifics about such instances in the Science of Identity Foundation? For example, do you recall any severe punishments like depriving people of food and water, locking them in a room or closet, corporal punishment by members other than parents? Thoughts usually turn to sexual abuse when the word “cult” is mentioned. Do you recall any stories or rumors about that i.e. someone being kicked out or reassigned, children being sent away, etc.? Were there suspicions regarding the paternity of any of the offspring?

I found this very interesting blog article Ms. Tulsi Goes to Washington by someone who appears to be a "Hare Krishna woman," Vrajabhumi.

Here's a little excerpt:

Quote


So, all’s well and good, right? Rising political star and a bag of Krishna chips, right?

LOL

This is where it gets interesting. Mike Gabbard, who claims to be a Catholic, was actually a follower of one Jagatguru Paramahamsa Siddhaswarupananda Prabhupada. And not just any follower, he was the main guy, the right-hand man, the top guy. He had his own vegetarian restaurant run inside of the cult’s main natural food store in Honolulu. No other follower had that type of clout.

Jagatguru aka Chris Butler, is the head of, and guru of, The Science of Identity Foundation. That’s the official name of his cult outreach organization. Among older Hare Krishna devotees, he’s famous as the guy who had his own hippie yoga cult in Hawai’i back in the 60s, who then came in contact with Prabhupada and his teachings, converted, and then joined ISKCON, taking with him a large number of his followers. He was embraced by Prabhupada closely, who gave him the name Siddhaswarupananda Swami. Maybe due to jealousy, or for whatever reason, Siddha (as he was known in ISKCON) claims he was driven out of ISKCON by fear of violence from other leaders, who he claims threatened him or attacked him.

One of the comments to the blog article comes from someone who says that they had been a follower of Jagad Guru Chris Butler in the Phillipines.

Interesting.

I plan to reread this blog article and digest it a little bit more . . .

Tulasi Gabbard .....HINDU ??
As someone that as associated for years with Swami Bhaktivedanta....let me tell you.

Tulasi is now PRO CHOICE ......Swamiji ...tought abortion was the worst of sins

Tulasi is now for gay marriage ..............Swamiji ......was just horrified of the possibility of Gay marriage

Tulasi the GI Jane .......Swamiji never told any disciples to go to war ...he sent many early disciples to INDIA to avoid the draft
Swamiji ...hated divorce ..............what is that TAMAYO thing anyway?

Its a freaking JG little cult and very limited genes pools to find a mate among BUTLER disciples!
TULASI was ready to kill other human beings ....because they IDENTIFIED themself as
MUSLIM extremists ...............where did all that SCIENCE OF IDENTITY education went ?
If Butler suggested the army so she could brag about it running for congress .....what is the guru of the UNIVERS putting TULASI in arms way for ..............his glory ?Political strategies
Its just such a freaking mesh of lies and deceits .
And by the way after research ....the eating of the nails of Mr Univers is very related to BLACK MAGIC
Alister Crowley (black magician) use to bury is nail clippings ...so no one would have access to them
to be use againts him in blaack magic rituals.
What happen to the minds of those that would go and eat the clippings of JG .....thinking that they would get magical benifits ???Deeper brainwashing ...I would suggested
The only disciles that use to eat stuff like that from Swami Bhaktivedanta body ....that i Know...Was BHAVANANDA ...who became guru ...and a prolific pedophile in the Hare Krishna schools .
Is JG involve conciously or inconciously into BLACK MAGIC ....??


HINDU ?...Tulasi daughter of an etreme right hypocrite that pass himself as a Catholic to send hatred anti gay propaganga .....orquestrated by BUTLER
The lies and deceits are so obvious to anyone who knowthe story .
Its all to satisfy the egomaniac guru ....any lies any deceits is OK for the little power satisfaction.

Old discussion thread on SIF from 2007, from Freethought Pedia

[forum.survey.net]

--
The Science of Identity?
A place where I comment on various issues; you're welcome to respond.
Post a reply5 posts • Page 1 of 1
The Science of Identity?
by pile » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:48 am

So I'm approached by someone who wants me to promote this web site.. get this:
[www.jagadgurusiddhaswarupananda.com]

What?

Maybe it's early in the morning and my brain wasn't warmed up, but this so-called "Science of Identity"organization seems like some kind of weird hippy-esque, new-agey movement, that in all likelihood might be 2-3 people for all I know. They have a few web sites up with weird, ambiguous quotes and things:

Jagad Guru: That I don't need to conclude that because there is no material self, therefore there is no self. I can conclude instead, I can have my conclusion based upon number one, the reality that I know I exist. I know I exist and this is the fundamental reality that I can never give up. I know I exist, my self-awareness. Therefore, instead of giving up my self-awareness, I give up the materialist worldview which cannot explain my self-awareness. Any theory, any worldview, which does not take into account that which is most real, cannot be accepted. We don't want to throw away reality, that is, the awareness of our own existence. We're going to throw away reality in order to protect or hold onto this worldview, this materialist worldview which holds that uh there is only one element?matter? This is basically what we would be doing. You see, we have a choice. We can throw away the materialist worldview. We can throw that away. Or we can throw away our existence. (laughter) That's our choice.

How exactly do you throw a away a materialist worldview in the first place, and don't these people think that matter is a component in self-awareness? I should have known as soon as they used "science" in the title of their organization that their version of "science" might not resemble the standard definition.

Jagad Guru: You know, this idea that the person or the self, that the spirit soul is eternal, continues to
exist even after the body is finished?this is, that, in other words, the life particle is by nature alive, whereas matter by nature is dead. There is no question of a life particle dying. A life particle is what brings matter to life, or makes matter appear like it's alive.

Oooh. Life particles.... LOL

I haven't dived completely into this. This group has a bunch of web sites that all seem to exist to co-promote each other and call attention to this nebulous pseudo-spiritual claptrap.

What I gather from a casual observation is that the guy, Chris Butler is promoting a "religion lite" new agey thing where they talk in generalities about the "soul", calling it a "life particle", and like other dogmatic philosophies, the guy tries to tie his made-up theory into a host of other well known spiritual and philosophical constructs.

The operative thing here is this idea of some sort of "life particle" is another one of these goofy presuppositions that seems mainly arrived at, not through scientific investigation, but likely through countless hours of daydreaming while under the influence of some sort of psychotropic substance. So do they kill themselves in preparation for the spaceship pickup as the meteor comes close to earth or what?

Thoughts? Comments?
pile
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Re: The Science of Identity?
by pile » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:15 am

Ahh, found more info on Chris butler and the science of identity church/cult:

Chris Butler preaches a self-styled philosophy influenced by the Hindu branch of Gauidaya Sampradaya (Hare Krishnas), mystic yoga, zen buddhism, Chinese esoteric practices, the Bible's New Testament and various psuedo-scientific theories. He named his theology the 'science of identity'.


Jagad Guru means 'Teacher of the Entire World' while Paramahamsa means 'Pure Swan' - based on the analogy of a swan being able to eat without consuming any of the dirty water their food is floating in. This infers that he can commit any act but on account of being a 'pure devotee' is not attatched to or capable of being corrupted by it.

The Science of Identity means knowing your identity as part and parcel, servant of God. Your natural function then is to be loving Him. This is what you must learn.
Chris Butler - "Death of a Loved One"

Claiming to be a direct link to God Chris Butler receives 'bhakti' (devotional service) and worship 'as good as God'. Liberation from material suffering is accepted as being relative to how 'loving' and 'pleasing' one is able to be to Chris Butler. His followers (called devotees) refer to him as 'Srila Prabhupad', meaning 'He who is in the position of God.'

As implied the 'submissive surrender' Butler preaches one must have towards a 'bonafide spiritual teacher' (himself) has no boundaries. Devotees are grateful to drink water that has been used to watch his feet and consume his toenails which are regarded as being especially purifying.

Features of a Destructive Cult

The Science of Identity Foundation, founded in Hawaii in 1977, is centre to a network of business, political and spiritual enterprises operating throughout the world under the direction of Chris Butler (Jagad Guru Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa).

The 'science of identity' is also the title given to a distinct doctrine, as defined by Chris Butler, centered on the concept of spiritual life being dependent on any individual discovering thier 'actual identity' and being prepared to live according to their 'true nature'.

As organisation and philosophy are entirely co-existent both are essentially referred to by the abbreviation of SoI.

SoI is based around an authoritarian pyramid structure with Chris Butler, accepted as being the only genuine spiritual authority on earth and a direct link to God, at the top.

The means for achieving 'liberation from the endless cycle of birth and death' (re-incarnation) in SoI and 'going home to Godhead' (existing in the eternal bliss of Krishna's heavenly abode) is to accept Chris Butler's teachings as the 'absolute truth' and to engage in 'bhaki yoga' (devotional service).

Devotional service includes acting as a servant in Chris Butler's mansion or his personal kitchen, working in one of the businesses owned by SoI (and 'donating' a mandatory 25% deducted directly from employees wages), serving as a political candidate or other public position under Chris Butler's instruction or acting as an armed bodyguard.

Every need for Chris Butler is catered for from doing his laundry to standing up wind from wherever he is as an 'air-sniffer' on alert for toxins and offensive odours or paddling in the surf to give the impression that the beach is crowded so he may surf undisturbed.

Deceptive and co-ercive tactics are used to recruit and maintain followers (devotees) such as claiming to be non-religious and non-sectarian or to be teaching meditation for 'stress relief' and yoga for 'fitness'. Details of Chris Butler's personal history and teachings are routinely concealed or fabricated. Shunning and retribution are imposed on disobedient and former followers.

While claiming to be teaching ancient and traditional forms of meditation and yoga all disciplines within SoI are the modern creation of Chris Butler derived from various influences. "Gauranga breathing" is claimed by Butler to be able to extend one's life while "Deep Peace" meditation is identical to the practice of progressive relaxation hypnosis. SoI has progressively evolved to the level of deception of presenting the ways in which devotees are instructed to live by Chris Butler as a form of yoga. Jaya yoga (Jaya meaning 'victory') was implemented by massage entreprenuer Brandon Raynor as a means of guiding recruits to Hawaii where the largest population of devotees and Butler himself live.

Chris Butler's own training in yoga and meditation is practically non-existent. He has never acknowledged any teacher of his own despite claiming to be a world renowned yoga master and draws from a range of diverse and conflicting disciplines. One example of his lack of insight is that he claims to have experienced adverse and irreversible effects as a result of practicing Kundalini yoga, going on to teach that it is dangerous and to be avoided. At the same time he instructs his followers to teach the Chinese discipline of Qi-Gong (also called Chi-Kung) which is identical to Kundalini in every aspect.

Chris Butler 'chastises', humilates, punishes, fines and banishes those who are displeasing to him. 'Chastisement' is a common theme in his recorded lectures where he details the problems his followers have written to him about, seeking his guidance, and derides them or is heard to berate a follower speaking with him in person.

Followers live in the general community, although they maintain strict isolation. Chris Butler teaches that to associate with non-devotees, is dangerous to one's consciousness and will lead to the destruction of their spiritual life. Devotees often live co-dependently of each other, sharing houses and with younger devotees taken in by disciples. There are some small communes especially for young single women where they are kept in near total isolation until marriage.

As it is not acceptable to marry non-devotees many families are related. Marriages and divorces are ordered by Butler and he condones his male followers having more than one wife. Women are guided to feel useless and incapable of spiritual advancement if they do not have a husband.

Family is taught to be a false identification and raising children is accepted as being 'devotional service' with the only goal of parenting to be raising souls to be followers of Chris Butler.

Once a child turns five they are considered to be of age to become serious about spiritual life and not be concerned by 'unneccessary' childish behaviour, such as playing with toys. Sending a child to public school has been declared by Butler to be the equivalent of murdering them.

Followers of Chris Butler or 'devotees' fall into categories on the descending hierachy - 'pure devotees', 'senior disciples', 'disciples', 'students' and 'new people'.

Pure devotee is a distinction reserved for Chris Butler himself and those who are his close personal associates, such as his wife Wai Lana, who he gave the initiated name of Vaishnava dasi - meaning servant of a pure devotee.

In his own teachings Chris Butler places himself on the same level of character and devotion as Jesus Christ who he claims is also a pure devotee of Krishna.

Any action of a pure devotee is deemed to be pleasing to God, even when it contradicts the standards which Chris Butler expects of his followers or the scripture he refers to and has written himself.

Senior disciples are slightly more elite than disciples, ranked according to the length of time they have served Chris Butler as 'surrendered souls' and the closer their personal relationship is to him. Those who are considered to be senior disciples have been on friendly terms with Chris Butler personally and worked on his more ambitious or lucrative 'projects'. Mere disciples have often not even met or personally communicated with Chris Butler, even on their initiation.

The signifigance of 'initiation' is that a devotee has offerred their life and every action to Chris Butler and, according to him, that he accepts them on these terms makes the relationship equal. On initiation Chris Butler bestows a 'spiritual name' which his disciples become known by, typically a Vedic word which corressponds alphabetically to their original name. He also chants a mantra on their japa beads and returns them in exchange for the promise that they will chant a set number, usually sixteen, of 'rounds' a day for the rest of their lives. A 'round' is one 'Maha' (great) mantra (ie - Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare) on each of a set of one hundred and eight beads which takes with takes about two hours a day.

Disciples are to be deferred to by students in the abscence of Chris Butler, which is typical as he is increasingly reclusive and uncontactable by all but a select few. They act to discipline through meeting among themselves and organise recruitment and projects.

Despite Chris Butler's personally absent spiritual guidance copious instructions are issued by him through his network of secretaries and staff in Hawaii and in his writings and recorded lectures. Disciples rely on contacting him indirectly through these means and issues which are considered important are brought to his attention through his secretary.

Students have had to demonstrate sufficient belief in Chris Butler to become progressively more exposed to his teachings, association with other devotees and involvement in his projects. Most long term students do not contribute a significant amount of money or have been displeasing to Chris Butler in some way. Not being initiated does not provide for liberation, creating an imperative to be as pleasing and devoted as possible.

Some disciples have taken advantage of this situation by soliciting money from students for investment and pyramid schemes, developing their businesses via free labour and manipulating sexual favours and money from students in exchange for recommending them for initiation. Chris Butler has shown no interest in these issues when they are brought to his attention beyond directing that all money should be sent directly to him.

New people are defined as those who are not deemed 'serious enough' by the controlling disciples to be given anymore than superficial access to the spiritual nature of the organisation and Chris Butler's teachings.

If a person becomes involved when they are aged beyond their twenties they are regarded with suspicion and may never progress above open classes simply because Chris Butler preaches that the older a person is without becoming his follower the more degraded their consciousness has become. Other factors which are considered is whether a person has a spouse or children that do not attend, whether they are regular attendants and if they have any assets or skills that are useful to service.

Chris Butler has an estimated twenty thousand 'devotees' with confirmed prescences in Australia, Belgium, Canada,China, Czech Republic, England, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Ireland, Lithuania, New Zealand, Phillipines, Poland,Russia, Switzerland and the United States - particularly Hawaii, California, Arizona, New Jersey, New York, Washington and Texas.

SoI meditation and yoga centres, which serve as the primary means of recruitment, operate under various names. Typically titles are based on the location (eg- Australian School of Meditation) or favour the names of 'Chaitanya' or 'Gauranga' (eg- Chaitanya Mission and Gauranga School of Meditation). Names which contradict this general practice have also been documented (eg- Mantra Meditation in Hawaii and Gokula House in Melbourne,
Australia).

SoI also carries on recruitment through dedicated 'outreach' operating in public spaces, such as libraries, community and youth centres, member's private homes, university campuses, through the WWOOF (World Wide Opportunities On Organic Farms) project, Brandon Raynor Massage Schools and Down to Earth 'Lifestyle Centres'.

Subliminal indoctrination is attempted according to the belief that exposing 'karmis' (non-believers) to the sounds of Chris Butler chanting and the consumption of 'prashadam' (food that has been ritually offered to the deity
Krishna).

Based on these beliefs SoI has established Wai Lana Yoga, which features the chanting of Chris Butler - credited as Siddha, Ajita's Vege Chips, the Down to Earth food chain, Healing Noni Juice and a multitude of smaller scale food service and musical projects, including Chris Butler's own failed rock star aspirations.

Even more abstract attempts to introduce SoI beliefs to an unsuspecting public include the cartoons Ninjai, Karma Kula and Wai Lana's 'Little Yogis' and coveting exposure in the entertainment industry.

As Chris Butler instructs his followers in what career they should take up it is interesting to note how many dedicate themselves to modelling, and acting, especially considering that Butler preaches the superficial nature of such professions and refers to watching movies as a waste of time. Under the guidance of Chris Butler is Radha Mitchell and minor actress Satcha Bellord, a stable of young models and aspiring musicians in Hawaii and Ground Up TV in the Phillipines featuring pop culture alongside solicitous female modelling.

Butler has pursued his political interests over four decades, telling his followers that one of them will eventually be president of the United States. To date he has succeeded in having a disciple on every level of Hawaiian government.

The 70s party Independents for Godly Government which included Rick Reid, Wayne Nishiki, Kathy Hoshijo, Larry Olsen and John Moore dissolved in controversy after Reid was exposed for engaging in dirty campaign tactics, on Chris Butler's orders, by his former wife. Other attempts to manipulate the democratic process have also surfaced.

In 1998 the EarthSave party was established in Australia by disciple Brandon Raynor in which every candidate was a fellow devotee. They failed to win any influence and have since disbanded.

Chris Butler's most successful political endeavour to date has been the Gabbard family. Mike Gabbard (Krishna Kartha das) was elected Senator for Hawaii in 2006. Wife Carol Gabbard (Devaruti dasi) spent a record amount to win a place on the Hawaiian Board of Education and daughter Tulsi Gabbard-Tamayo won a seat in the House of Representatives in 2002.

Chris Butler's candidates show no party preference with Republican and Democrat candidates running simultaneously and Mike Gabbard switching from Republican to Democrat less than a year after being elected. Mike Gabbard has denied his allegiance to Chris Butler claiming to be Catholic, despite clear evidence to the contrary including 95% of his very unusual campaign contributions coming directly from SoI members. The only objective is to assure Chris Butler of as much influence as possible. With this same goal selected followers are directed to take up policing and positions with other government departments.

Various pressure groups have also been established by Chris Butler in the interests of gaining a controlling influence in the Vaishnava religious community and demonising homosexuality, with some interest extended to environmental issues. These include being a founding member and installing the president of the World Vaishnava Association, establishing and directing the Vaishnava Internet News Agency, Alliance Against Religous Vilification, Dharam Rakshak, Stand Up for America, several chapters of Stop Promoting Homosexuality and Save Traditional Marriage and the Healthy Hawaii Coalition.

Who is Chris Butler?

The youngest of three sons and a daughter born to Dr Willis Butler and his wife Barbara on 14th June 1948 Chris was born in Louisiana shorlty before the family relocated to Hawaii.

In his lectures to followers Chris does not remember his childhood fondly and as an adult became estranged from his family, apart from his brother Bruce, who became his disciple. He ordered his disciples in personal service to provide no details to his parents about where he was living refused to attend his own mother's funeral.

As an example of how unattached he is to his own 'material body' Chris Butler claimed to not realise that he was white until he was discriminated against by the local indigenous Hawaiians.

Brahman Realisation

Regardless of the different names the experience is the same. During this experience, the individual soul temporarily forgets his individual existence and merges into the impersonal Brahman effulgence. This effulgence is actually the personal bodily luster of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This effulgence is boundless and all-pervading, and is known as the brahmajyoti. In colloquial terms it is known as the "clear light" or the "white light".

The experience involved can be brought about through various methods of meditation, prayer, chanting, and in some very rare cases, through the use of psychedelic drugs combined with any of the above mentioned processes.

Footnote : The author of this thesis in no way advocates the use of psychedelic drugs. The use of psychadelic drugs can be very dangerous. In this regard, it should be noted that many persons who have experimented with psychedelic drugs, and who think that they have attained great levels of spiritual awareness, are infact simply "space cases" who are out of touch with reality, both material and spiritual.

Tusta Krishna das (David Muncie) The Quest : An Enquiry into the Existence and Nature of the Supreme Being. Page 190.

The Quest, published by The Science of Identity Foundation in 1980 and 1999 is the thesis of Chris Butler's closest personal friend and first disciple in attaining his Master of Arts degree.

Despite his disclaimer Tusta's devotion to Chris Butler did not permit him to dismiss the ability to attain "Brahman realization" through use of psychedelic drugs, since he was well aware this is what led Chris Butler to becoming a guru.

According to legend among Butler's followers it was during an LSD "trip" that he reached the "white light" and claimed that he heard a voice telling him that he needed permission to enter. With this Chris Butler had a realisation that if he needed permission that there must be a higher authority above the impersonal goal. At that point he returned to material existence to share the realisation that God existed.

Origins In ISKCON

That difference of opinion will continue, what can be done. Siddha Swarupananda Maharaja and his group, whenever they see me they give me money. So they are not against me.
-AC Bhaktivedanta Swami in a letter to his disciple Bhurijana 11th Nov 1975


In philosophy and lifestyle, in addition to sharing many critical aspects, SoI is derived from and maintains a strong resemblance to the ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness) 'Hare Krishna' movement.

Most of Butler's philosophy, inferred credibility as a guru and his early following stems from his relationship with ISKCON.

There is an abundance of evidence to sugguest that he had a profound effect on the organisation in defining it's more controversial aspects and instigating challenges to authority that have proven highly divisive to this day.

Chris Butler claims to be the only true representative of ISKCON founder and guru AC Bhaktivedanta Swami. He portrays himself as a matyr violently oppossed for his devotion by those who became set on corruption following AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's death.

Chris Butler arrived in ISKCON in late 1970 bringing with him a substantial donation of $18 800, property in Hawaii and between 50 to 100 of his own followers. While the estimation of numbers varies considerably it is generally agreed that Sai, as Butler was then known, and his following where the largest group to ever join ISKCON.

Bhaktivedanta would initiate over five thousand disciples, but only one received a page in ISKCON's Back To Godhead magazine to commemorate the occassion. Butler wrote offering his obeisances (respects) to Bhaktivedanta Swami, declaring his commitment to ISKCON and lamenting his past spiritual misjudgements.

Chris Butler was given the initiated name Siddhasvarupa - meaning 'one that is accomplished in image 'in June 1971.

Just six months prior to his initiation Butler had produced Sai Speaks to promote Krishna Yoga Community, a reinvention of his pre-existing commune, which was linked to Sivananda Ashram.

Sai claimed to have mastered every traditional form of yoga, although he was still only twenty years old, and to be a genuine spiritual master although, he admitted at the time, not in disciplic succession.

In his considerably revised personal history Butler would come to represent to his followers that he had attained to the highest level of enlightenment in the 'impersonal' philosophies (those which do not recognise God as an individual but within each human soul) only to encounter God himself and so become certain of his genuine existence.

At the time Butler was regularly using LSD, a fact he admits to in Sai Speaks and his publication "Drugs" and it was during a 'trip' that he experienced his divine awakening. He would later claim that the name Sai, which means 'master' was bestowed on him by Krishna. The name was actually bestowed on him by his initiating spiritual master of Sivananda Ashram as part of his full initiated name Sai Stokala Adhikari, which appears in Sai Speaks.

Hawaiian followers of AC Bhaktivedanta Swami were affronted by Sai's imitiation of their practices, including leading sankirtan (public chanting parties), collecting money and claims to be following their guru. Bhaktivedanta renounced any connection to Sai and directed his disciples to print and distribute a leaflet of his own design to inform the general public that Sai was not representing Krishna Consciousness.

At the time Hare Krishna had become a household name and being denounced by Bhaktivedanta severely restricted Sai's ability to recruit new followers as he had intended as well as challenging his authority in front of his
existing following.

Butler sent his closest friend David Muncie, who would become known as Tusta Krishna das, to study with ISKCON and began to corresspond with Bhaktivedanta in a series of letters enquiring about how he could become accepted. The offer of money and other assets was made immediately and received with much enthusiasm.

Despite their success and already having amassed considerable wealth ISKCON was involved with several very ambitious projects and experiencing some difficulty meeting debts. In particular the society's magazine Back to Godhead, founded by Bhaktivedanta in 1944, was unable to meet costs and under threat of being shut down. Butler may have been aware of this fact due to his association with regarded hallucenogenic artist Bob Schnepp who had taken up residence at Krishna Yoga Community after working for Back to Godhead.

Interestingly, under the influence of LSD Schnepp was responsible for producing Butler's 'authorised' images of Krishna. These he tells his followers are the only true and therefore acceptable depictions of God based on his own claims of having seen him in person.

Sai instructed his following who were accustomed to spending their days 'tripping', surfing and embracing the concept of 'free love' that they were joining ISKCON.

*All copies of Sai Speaks were directed to be burnt and the customs of ISKCON fully adhered to. Specific instructions were given about where followers were to go sugguesting that there was some intention to assume influence within ISKCON in Sai's favour.

Less than two years into initiation Butler was no longer concerned with fitting in and was running his own following benefitting significantly from the guise of being condoned by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami. Tusta Krishna das assumed control of the ISKCON temple in New Zealand while Siddhasvarupa ran ISKCON in Hawaii. He also had a controlling influence in the infamous Californian Laguna Temple which cooperated with Timothy Leary's 'Brotherhood of Eternal Love' to distribute vast amounts of LSD and hash smuggled from India. Eventually scandal would arise when Laguna was raided by the FBI.

Chris Butler was continuously brought to AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's attention by his other disciples with concern for the many ways in which he asserted his independence and ultimately assumed his own authority. Butler appealed to those who had difficulty adapting to standards of temple living such as shaving their heads and wearing orange robes. Such things Butler declared were unimportant. He never attempted to explain why such a saintly and genuine guru as he prepetuated Bhaktivedanta Swami as being would bother to make instructions which were so spiritually irrelevant as to be discarded.

Butler himself could not abide the vow of celibacy he had taken in accepting the initiation as a sanyassin and was forced to marry his secretary when it was discovered that he had been sleeping with her.

Although he maintains to this day that he is celibate and has been his entire life according to some of his former disciples he was in a relationship with his long-time friend and early disciple Kathy Hoshijo, known as Katayani dasi, and he married his 'spiritual daughter' Wai Lana in 1984.

The ISKCON religion is derived from the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition of India which recognises Krishna as the 'Supreme Lord' among the many gods and goddesses of the complex Hindu belief system. Although maintaining that this theology or 'revealed knowledge' is the original religion - based on the most ancient scripture in existence - Gauidiya Vaishnavism was actually defined and popularised by the Indian sage Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in the early 15th century.

According to the key scripture of the Bhagavad Gita a spiritual master is situated in a disciplic succession that originated with God himself and has carried on through the tradition of students representing their departed guru in teachings and example. It is taught that there can be no spiritual enlightenment without 'submissive surrender' to him. Spiritual masters are always male in this belief system as women are deemed too inferior.

The concept of not contradicting a standard derived directly from God is upheld as a guide to authenticity of a guru. Infact each generation, beginning with Chaitanya, has made major alterations to the teachings and example of their predecessor. Chaitanya personally wrote only eight short prayers and never claimed to be God although he would be worshipped as a direct incarnation descended for the purpose of reviving devotion on earth following his death and his teachings would be voluminously declared by others.

AC Bhaktivedanta Swami was an elderly retired pharmacist* when he left his native India with the mission of bringing 'Krishna Consciousness' to the Western world in 1966. He was not well regarded among his 'godbrothers' on account of his casual devotion. While he claimed to have been given the instruction to preach in english while still a young man he did not adopt the rigid constraints of his religion until his business was bankrupt, his children were grown and married life had become tiresome, just eleven years before his death. He was also criticised for assuming the title of his deceased spiritual master Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.

*(note: According to Professor (and Swami) Agehananda Bharati, who had close relationships with Subhas Chandao Boses surviving family, and other members of the Bengali elite, Bhaktivedanta had started out in a family in Calcutta who were silver bullion merchants.)

"Excerpted from AB's survey of mysticism entitled 'The Light at the Center: Pretext and Context of Modern Mysticism'--. '(footnote on page 236) ' There is no doubt that Swami AC Bhaktvendanta (Prabhupada) 'the Lord's Food) silver bullion broker of Calcutta turned saint, foudner of the Hare Krishna movement in the western world, created a genuine duplication of the Caitanya movement in an expatriate setting...Sri Caitanya (1485-1533) was a Bengali Brahmin, and the formost devotional reformer of the late Bengali Middle Ages. His influence, although localized in Bengal and Orissa generated a powerful millenial type movement which peaked in the 17th Century all over Northern India and declined thereafter. ' .. 'It is much more difficult to find a troupe of 'Hare Krishna' singing and dancing devotees in the streets of Calcutta (Note: Bharati wrote this in the early to mid 1970s) than in the US...Except for Bengalis abroad, Hindus have hardly heard about 'Hare Krishna' singing in India; only now do they witness in the West what some saint, unknown to them, created a few centuries ago in rural northeastern India. 'Krishna Consciousness' in teh midn and in the words of Swami Bhaktivendanta and his roughly 4,000 followers (1976) in North America is a term referring to an interpreted mystical state. Since the Vaishnava does not want to "merge" (that is does not want to merge with the Deity but remain separate while ecstatically adoring the Deity--my note, not Bharati's) being different from KRSNA in playful eternity, a zero experience (Bharati's term for mystical consummation) occurring to the Vaisnava is interpreted about as negatively as a Christian orthodox mystic's experience. I asked Swami Bhaktivedanta about this--and he got quite irritated, rejecting monistic Vedanta in the same irate style in which Vaishnavas have been rejecting it as heresy for 800 years.' " Bharati was fluent in Bengali, Sanskrit, Hindi and had relationships with the great and good in Bengal. He would have known Prabhupada's family background.

Another hint of Prabhupada's privliged background and his early sense of entitlement can be found by readign anecdotes in the full version of Lord Krishna's Cusine, written by Prabhupada's devotee and one of his personal cooks--Yanuma Devi. Old man Prab told Devi how he would, as a boy, walk and watch the vendors making fried delicacies at roadside stands in Calcutta, and how the vendors would give him free goodies, to the point of the boy arriving home with his vest pockets full. This indicates that the kid was well off enough to have vest to wear. And with pockets.

There would have been NO shortage of hungry boys in those Calcutta streets. The vendors would have gone broke had they given away food to every boy with longing eyes. But the old man spoke as though he routinely received free goodies. Even if he was a son of a pharmacist, there must have been some serious family power for him, even as a boy to be getting favoritism from food vendors. In India, small kids are often given rough treatmetn in the streets, unless it is known that they come from an upper class background with family clout.

This indicates that Prabupada was from a privilieged background and that the vendors knew it was to their advantage to feed him. (end of note--Corboy Back to Butler)

Bhaktivedanta roundly condemned his godbrothers claiming to be the only true representative of his spiritual master, declaring that they were 'low class', less than human and had lost all meaning of their mission. The anomisity was not resolved on either side until ISKCON had become a popular and very wealthy success.

By 1966 Gaudiya Vaishnavism was an obscure sect in a land of thousands but by actively appealing to the American 'hippie' culture and aided by highly influential figures including Timothy Leary Bhaktivedanta managed to convince thousands that his was the one true religion.

ISKCON was heavily focussed towards raising money as Bhaktivedanta directed 'by hook or by crook'. Any act intended to benefit the society was deemed not only acceptable but morally superior. As such the popular image of Hare Krishnas became irretrivably linked to public solicition.

Contemporary observations refer to dodging gauntlets of saffron robed preachers in every conceivable public space. The New York zoo posted signs advising not to donate to the Hare Krishnas alongside the more traditional Do not feed the animals. A lawsuit was required to remove the abundance of preachers from airport terminals.

The older generations were troubled at seeing so many young people withdrawing from society to live in temples and follow a heavily ritualised lifestyle. Claims of 'brainwashing', control, criminal enterprises and abuse began to surface almost immediately.

In a long running courtcase, beginning in 1976, a minor named Robin George and her parents pursued claims of brainwashing and false imprisonment. In 1983 they were awarded $32 million in damages by a Californian jury, which was reduced to $485 000 in 1993 and eventually finalised by a private
settlement.

ISKCON was futher tainted by widespread pick-pocketing and various street scams, drug use and dealing, abuse and repression of female members, high divorce rates, seperating parents from their children and abuse of children in their boarding schools.

Sulochana das who documented the direction of ISKCON following AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's death in his book The Guru Business was murdered in retaliation two days after publication in 1982. His killer maintained that he had acted on the orders of his guru Kirtananda, who was later jailed for racketeering.

In 2000 forty four complainants titled "children of ISKCON" filed a lawsuit for physical, emotional and sexual abuse in ISKCON boarding schools.

When AC Bhaktivedanta Swami died in 1977 he left no clear instruction as to who his successor should be. Eleven disciples making up the Governing Body Commission GBC, which Bhaktivedanta had founded himself claimed that they had been appointed. ISKCON was immediately divided by those who accepted the 'successor gurus' and those that did not. Some maintained that Bhaktivedanta had been poisoned.

Chris Butler was the first to publicly denounce the'successor gurus', claiming that they had fraudulently assumed control of the organisation since he himself was the only one qualified to continue AC Bhaktivedanta Swami's mission. Immediately following his death Chris Butler assumed Bhaktivedanta's title of 'Srila Prabhupad' - meaning he who has taken the position of the Lord.

Butler and his close followers have maintained vague and unsubstantiated claims for over three decades that 'people' within ISKCON are plotting against him determined to assassinate his character if not his person. He has never been attacked despite his many public gatherings and high profile projects, including his involvement alongside several ISKCON members in the World Vaishnava Association.

In contrast Butler's history of self-interest, disrespect and disruption within ISKCON is well documented.

The premise of being in perptual threat from ISKCON has served to convince Butler's followers that he is protecting them from 'spiritual suicide' by having any association with ISKCON members, fostering fear, mistrust and contempt which prevents them from seeking or believing any accounts of his personal history.

Followers and even former followers of Chris Butler who have maintained some element of faith along the lines of ISKCON are reluctant to examine his relationship to Bhaktivedanta Swami, or to venture any further back in history. The belief in the need for a genuine spiritual master is so pervading in Krishna Consciousness that acknowledging critical facts or enquiring into the background of Chris Butler or Bhaktivedanta severely undermines the will to believe.

Many are ultimately drawn to gurus claiming an unrelated descent in order to continue belief through denoucing Bhaktivedanta and his disciples as bogus.

Inside SoI

SoI maintains the most fundamental philosophy of ISKCON combined with Chris Butler's impersonalist and zen learnings, elements of chinese mysticism, and various psuedo-sciences.

The recognition and worship of Krishna as God, with a focus on the teachings of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu

SoI does not recognise the distinctive dress code of ISKCON and Butler explicitly instructs not to resemble ISKCON devotees in anyway. There is no position of sanyassi (celibate male preachers) central in the structure of ISKCON and no attempt to follow the emphasis that Bhaktivedanta Swami placed on public chanting, maintaining temples, book distribution and charity.

Chris Butler has never built a temple or undertaken a single charitable project. Gatherings of followers typically take place in parks or on a beach.

Chris Butler's instructions are for religious practices to be cloaked in euphenisms such as 'yoga sound' for names of Krishna, mantra rock (for worshipping Krishna to loud music) and 'yoga lifestyle' for following his teachings on a daily basis.

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Re: The Science of Identity?
by Bova » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:49 pm

Lmao. People are incredible.Bova

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Re: The Science of Identity?
by denise » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:43 pm

Anyone out there know much about the Gabbards, political family associated with Chris Butler? They live in a house with another married couple with two small children. I know the children's grandmother and she is terrified that they are smack dab in the middle of this cult. She is attempting to rescue them somehow.

Anyone have any thoughts about these people or their motives?denise

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Re: The Science of Identity?
by zombiehunter » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:12 am

denise wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts about these people or their motives?

Well, with any cult my guess at their motive would be control.

Arn't there some organizations that can help rescue the kids?

That difference of opinion will continue, what can be done. Siddha Swarupananda Maharaja and his group, whenever they see me they give me money. So they are not against me.
-AC Bhaktivedanta Swami in a letter to his disciple Bhurijana 11th Nov 1975

That is one of the unfortunate aspect of SWAMI B.....He took money indiscriminatly
Butler may have taken hundreds of thousands of $$$ from his disciples Laguna beach drug dealers
and other drug dealers in Australia.....and show up with an envelop of $10,000 for SWAMI to pacify him .
"HEY THEY LIKE ME ...SEE THEY GIVE ME MONEY "
Swami may have taken millions from GURU KRIPA to build Mayapur and Vrindavan temples
no questions ask .............it was money from hard drug that may have been responsible for the death
of heroin addicts in Europe or America .
I personally started to lose faith (a little ) when Swami gave permission to BALI MARDAN (then a sanyasin)
to marry the so called heiress of the ITACHI fortune ....Swami personally did the marriage ceremony
It turn out that the "HEIRESS"was an ex prostitute and that Bali Mardan and her travel the world for a year first class ....5 stars hotels ...........and it was all money taken from the NEWYORK temple devotees
collecting nickels and dimes in the street of NEW YORK..
I knew Bali Mardan very well aswe had taken sanyas in Australia together .
When I saw he was getting merried ...........I ask permission to swami to also get merried to my devoted
argentinian wife.....I was told by his secratary "BALI wife is a HEIRESS ....your potential wife as no money
Thats about when i started to move away from the SWAMI (but just a little ) it took years of therapy
to get somewhat deprogram thaat SWAMI was perfect and faultless.
Naturally devotees in general still proclaim Swami to be perfect .Butler as taken many cues from Swami
when it comes to money ...........over and under the tables

For anyone who hopes that Tulsi Gabbard's Republican Opponent, Kawika Crowley, can defeat Tulsi in the November 6th, 2012 General Election, Hawaii News Now (TV News) reported tonight 08/22/12 that Mr. Crowley is homeless and living in his vehicle.

Kawika Crowley works as a house painter and is also a performer of Hawaiian music. He makes something like $15,000 per year. Maybe less.

Unfortunately, Hawaii News Now has not posted a text story yet on their website or a video of this report. But you can bet that this will be on the rest of the Hawaii news outlets, soon.

Mr. Crowley is at a huge disadvantage here in Hawaii just by being a Republican candidate.

Mr. Crowley is a lobbyist against restrictions on smoking.

I think we will discover that his views are quite extreme. The guy is unelectable.

In short, the Hawaii Republican Party ran a truly pathetic candidate for this office (U.S. Representative, Hawaii 2nd Congressional District), in my opinion.

Tulsi is as good as elected to this office.

A report on Tulsi Gabbard's homeless Republican opponent is online now: Handyman hopes to go from homeless to Congress

FUNNY >>This guy will be swallow by a tidal wave....of money and cult power
Congress will get its first "HINDU " PRO CHOICE ....PRO GAY ....and a possibly involve in the black magic ritual of eating toe nails of a meglomeniac
Chris Butler .Just very funny