Seeing as how Chris has spent his whole life dabbling in politics, I am wondering what stance he is now taking in the year of 2012? I do remember that a few years ago he was instructing his followers to vote for Bush* (because of the same-sex issue).

Anybody out there with any info on this matter? Has Mr. Butler ever mentioned Ron Paul and the movement to put an end to all nonsensical wars and to curb the industrial military complex? Or does Chris believe that he is one of the privileged elites who can send the peasants off to war in order to finance his extravagant lifestyle including chauffer-driven limos, mansions on the beach and an abundance of servants (who still believe they are pleasing g0d by serving Mr. Butler)???

I imagine that Chris does not approve of Ron Paul because Paul uses the word FREEDOM a little too often...

Another notorious character that comes to mind, who incarcerated homosexuals and promulgated the industrial-military complex and who disliked freedom was none other than ... Adolf Hitler!

* I have heard it through the grapevine that many influential persons are working behind the scenes to get the Neocons such as ex-pres Bush arrested for crimes against humanity ... Chris Butler has stated that he is the knower of the absolute truth ... but as far as his political beliefs go, it is my personal opinion that he has fallen under the spell of the ABSOLUTE LIE.

~:-) Love & Peace to all ... Just-giggling.

I read, Tulsi is going opposite her dad's direction. If true, that affirms my inkling that theologies as narrow-minded as the Science of Identity's cannot work on the minds of the later generation. It worked on us because we were so ignorant of so many things. My living proof and hope was Rama Das Ranson, who was born and educated in the cult, yet was able to reject outright the stupidity and superficiality of the cult's core philosophy. Either he's extra courageous or a special kind. But why should that be unusual? Fear factor should be no match to reason, but since he's gone (we have not heard from him since his parent passed away), who knows, he may have gone back to the fold? If that's the case, the psychological hold cults have got with hardcore followers maybe that strong and indelible after all. But hope lingers on my mind and reading Tulsi's recent departure from the core values of the cult, I can't help but hope for reason to still work even with those most hardcore followers of superstition. It's just absurd for more modern people, especially the younger ones to adhere to beliefs that are as bloody primitive and as childish as the Taliban's. It works for the Muslims because the cultures and societies support it, but with the Haribols who interact with the modern world everyday, I just don't see how the theology could still hold. I'll observe her moves and if she progresses from her pronouncement, she'll have my vote.

In order to find out if this is true that perhaps Tulsi has her own thoughts and is not under the direct supervision or direction of the cult leader Chris Butler, she simply has to disavow her ties, don't you think?
That would be proof. To publicly state that she has no ties to him or to the cult. Furthermore she must state that she views Butler's philosophy as absurd and extraorinarily prejudicial and ignorant. She does that publicly then maybe there is hope.
If a devotee does that, they are considered ostrasized from the group, much like Rama is/was.
Ah, but there's the rub!
When you run for political office be prepared to be heavily scrutinized.
It turns out she is being investigated by reporters.
So if you have photos, videos or papers that indicate her allegiance to this cult I would post them now.
They are particularly looking for proof of the homophobia and the other obnoxious behaviors of this cult and her father's deep long time link and
hers by association, to Chris Butler.
Now is the time to post it all. The world needs to see what this cult has done.

[www.civilbeat.com]

Here, they are talking about Tulsi's campaign contribution from families and friends. Somebody should post her Dad's record of campaign contribution I remember was posted here long time ago that showed names from disicples and supporters of Chris Butler. Most posters to civilbeat.com believe she's a Hindu and that Mike still practices Catholicism. Hmm. if that's the case, I doubt her recent revelation that she is going opposite the direction her Dad is going, may not be that genuine or good news after all. With all these connections still intact and the misleading claim of another religious affiliation, I think this whole democrat shift is nothing but a pretense and is just the same old shameless tactic her dad and followers of Chris Butler are so well-known for — manipulation.

One guy seems to be aware of the connection, but the rest haven't got a slight clue, seemingly are all for or somewhat supportive of Tulsi. She's a charming girl, born and raised in the ethos of the cult; and with all this money coming from the same old group that supported her dad, and the tofu people of Hawaii, that gives her better chances of taking a political seat, where Rick Reed, Katy and other political puppets of Butler failed. The process in realizing their guru's political mission was hatched long ago, that even Tulsi may not have met these other royalties before them or have heard of the dirt and the fiasco of the campaign. The Gabbards maybe Haribol's royalties, but obviously they too are nothing but pawns in the grand game Chris Butler loves to play since day one. If the people of Hawaii think the Republicans are backwards in the their politial views, wait till she gets the seat and start implementing reforms and laws that have tinges of Hare Krishna's archaic idealism and narrow definition of Truth.

Here's one post from the site:

Bart Dame

Your point only adds to the mystery. Tulsi says she's a Catholic. You dispute this and say she is a Hindu. One does not have to be "anti-Hindu" --I am not-- in order to wonder why she tries to hard to obscure what so many Hawaii residents already know. This will hobble her political career until she can talk comfortably about her upbringing in the Chris Butler Hare Krishna group. Her online official biography has diffiiculty saying anything about her life out of the perceived need to disguise the basic facts.

Obviously, that would require a family-level discussion and maybe the family is not ready to go public with this side of their life. By treating it a if it were a shameful secret, they give it power over them. It saps integrity from her and signals an inauthenticity which people pick up. People will accept a "Hare Krishna" background. It even can make a person more intriguing. She grew up in a "Hare Krishna cult," but is now a serious contender for Congress. I think that is a compelling story. And if they don't tell the story, others will be able to control the narrative.

(I know they won't accept advice from me on this. But maybe someone else can assure them that there is (at least) some merit in what I am saying here.)

Had an extraordinary experience in Israel of late. During Chanukah, there gathered around a huge menorah in a public area in Tel Aviv were the Chabadniks (ortho culty branch of Judaism that believes their Rebbe is the messiah), the Kaballah Center folks (another creepy "non-sectarian" neo-jewish cult), and the Hare Krishnas. It was one curious gathering. The Chabad guys were not prosletizing, but the Kaballah center and Hari bols were in full tilt throttle passing out brochures and trying to grab the attention of anyone who stopped by to hear the blessings on the Chanukiah. I stayed to compare and contrast the Kaballah Center's and Hare Krishna's raps.

But the same old song was playing. "You are crap. The world is crap. You NEED what the group has to offer. The OTHER group does not know the shit they know. The OTHER group is doing it all wrong." My main question to them all was "What's a nice Jewish boy doing wearing robes or passing out brochures? Why not home lighting the chanukia with loved ones like it has been done for centuries?" The answer was all the same...they found g0d elsewhere. Funny thing is that most of these people were not Israelis, but Americans and Europeans. It was not difficult at all to send their imprinted messages into a tail spin and freak them out with old fashioned Yiddisha Mama guilt. LOL! While I had a hell of a lot of fun teasing them, I also walked away really sad... but for one moment during the lighting, everyone stood quiet and respectful. Odd.

One difference between these lunatics and Tulsi Gabbard; They are open and honest about their involvement. Tulsi DID grow up in a genuine cult. It is part of her biography. The secrecy is evidence of deception. She needs to be seriously confronted about this issue. It is not about religious freedom. It is about integrity and honesty. Oh, I forgot, we are talking politics and politicians...."the world loves lies" (from an old Yiddish story)

We should all be very grateful to the contributors and administrators of this open forum. You are all doing good work and please keep it up. It is impossible for a candidate like Tulsi Gabbard to be elected to Congress without the support of influential people. However, few influential people want their name associated with an alleged member of a secretive cult and who, it is claimed, was actually raised within a cult. My aim here is to post enough details so people Googling themselves or Tulsi will be confronted with the association. As someone else has suggested here, Tulsi Gabbard should at the very least make a public statement about her alleged involvement with the cult and the alleged involvement of her Father, Mike Gabbard. Redemption is something we should all embrace, if the person has truly forsaken the misdeeds.
As I learned from this valuable forum, cult leader Chris Butler resides in Lanikai and sometimes has his minions use a Zodiac boat to take him out to surf so he needn’t paddle like mere mortal surfers. The ire raised in the local surfing community along with his “need” for special air-filtration for his hyper-sensitivity has easily led to the locations of two of the cult hideouts in Lanikai. A third location is easily surmised by the daily rounds of The Cult chauffeurs.

[Moderator Note: Posting specific addresses/contact information is not allowed per the rules of this message board]

The combined value of all this property is easily in excess of $10 million.

At present, there are two “Tulsi for Congress” signs prominently displayed on the main street leaving Lanikai. One apparent supporter with a sign is “Ann Dewey” at [...]. A bit surprising since Ann Dewey is President of the Lanikai Association, a quasi-governmental and elected position. The other sign is at [...] owned by “Elizabeth Grossman”, another influential member of the Lanikai community. Do they know and approve of a cult in this idyllic community?

“Michael A. Knysh” is the owner of record for two of the cult-occupied homes. I wonder how he explains the extensive air-filtration system in a supposed vacation rental. “Joseph Bismark” is the owner of record for the other two homes and of Down To Earth. There may be more.

[...] is linked to Down To Earth and to “Joseph Bismark”. ”Mark Fergusson” is the apparent chief executive of DOWN TO EARTH NATURAL FOODS and linked to the Cult in search results.
This is all public information and anyone can access and expand upon it.

Perhaps someone else can post photos of cult members wearing surgical masks, lists of donators to Tulsi, Cult employees of Down To Earth, other properties controlled or operated by the Cult, etc. Further areas of research are whether the occupants of the properties are paying rent (or declaring income on the fair-market value of free rent, are the landlords paying excise tax, the employment practices of Down To Earth, and if health and occupancy laws are being observed, are they cooking commercial quantities of vegetarian food in residences, etc. Some concerned parents and families might like to know if a family member is involved with this Cult.
Warning – The Cult owning or controlling this much high value real estate indicates a great deal of power. If you are a web-savvy reader, please link to this article to boost it in the search results.
If a reader has stumbled upon this link and become alarmed by the association, I suggest you read all the posts and learn of the alleged hateful and delusional behaviors. Happy searching.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2012 09:43PM by rrmoderator.

[forum.culteducation.com]
Multi Level Marketing and Commercial Schemes
QNet: suspicious MLM flooding google with rebuttal against complaints

Just posted on separate thread about QNet, wherein Joseph Bismark is a founding member and managing director. QNet has similar suspiscious strategy of drowning out complaints and critics much like the Science of Identity — flood google with bogus websites depending and disputing facts against QNets modus operandi. And if you google Joseph Bismark, you get the same thousands of hits of how good he is as a person, and his background as a follower of yoga, without mentioning the group and Jagad Guru Chris Butler. What's wrong about this group? Just like Tulsi Gabbard, the father and Wai Lana, why hide their identities? it just arouses suspiscion when people have obviously something to hide. If not for this forum, there are no other sources about the activities of this funny, paranoid and very suspiscious religious cult.

Thanks flashlight for the additional info.

[en.wikipedia.org]
Just checkout what wikipedia has to say about QNet:

According to Bill E. Branscum, the owner of FraudsandScams.com website, QNet operates as a pyramid scheme.[14]

On the 4th of December, 2002, Cameron Thompson, member of the Australian Parliament, identified GoldQuest as an example of pyramid schemes accordin g to a list prepared by The Office of Consumer and Business Affairs in South Australia during his speech in support of the government's proposal to amend the Trade Practices act(1974). The list contained 60 other companies that was thought to be proposed in an effort to con consumers in Australia[15][better source needed] The Iranian government banned GoldQuest after what is believed to have been one the largest economic corruption cases in the country's history. Prosecutors found that the pyramid schemes of GoldQuest led to removal of around USD 500 million from the country.

GoldQuest was the original QNet but rebranded in 2003. The arrest of the founder and CEOs including Bismark in Malaysia, back in 2007, was a controversy that is all over the internet.

All I can say is: there's a sucker born every minute; and people like the haribols like vultures are always there to pounce upon the poor unsuspecting victim. Ha-hah!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2012 11:41AM by dharmabum.

"Thanks flashlight for the additional info."

You are very welcome and I applaud your ongoing contributions.
Here is a link to a very informative and credible blog listing the identities of many of the contributors to Tulsi Gabbard and Mark Gabbard.
[www.dailykos.com]

I can't wait to see her campaign signs coming down in Lanikai and Kailua as people google themselves and discover they are aiding and abetting a secretive cult.

Sorry, I meant to type Mike Gabbard, not Mark. If the moderator says OK, I'd like to list all the names mentioned in the blog referenced above. It will increase the odds that people (and their friends, neighbors, and employers) will find themselves associated with a secretive Cult and its dilusional and homophobic leader.

I have copied the names of contributors and supporters of Tulsi Gabbard and Mike Gabbard from the blog mentioned above.
If these people are not aware of the Cult connection and their delusional leader, Chris Butler, they should withdraw their support immediately.

from the blog

Harry Acuna
Anya Anthony
Tim Anthony
Janet Bishop
John Bishop
Eileen Cervantes
Devin Bull
Kunti Bull
Phineas Casady
Patricia Compton
Josh Harvey
Michael Harvey
Mary Hillier
Michael Jones
Kendall Kim
Donna Lay
Carol Lent
Robert Lent
Amanda Lowther
Richard Lowther
Lawrence Olsen
Mary Papish
Robert Riggs
Frederick Sands
Diana Sherer
Steve Telander
LeParis Young
Walter Cardinet
Nancy Cardinet Carol Gabbard's sister and brother-in-law
Elsie Porter, probably another relative of Carol's (whose maiden name is Porter)
Eduardo Tamayo, Tulsi's ex-husband
Devin Bull and Kunti Bull
Robert Riggs
Donna Lay
Erika Tsuji and Franklin Tsuji
Talia Tamayo Khurana and Vikram Khurana (who shares an address with Talia and is probably her husband)

Down to Earth and other Companies Affiliated:
Employees of Down to Earth, the health food store where the Gabbards used to work, and which is currently a trademark of Healthy's, where Steve Telander works
Clifford Hillier and Nimai Cordeiro, have the same last name as old Mike Gabbard donors, namely Hillier and Vanessa and Romel Cordeiro. Mary Hillier and Clifford Hillier share an address, as well.
Two employees of Pacific Advisors, which is Walter Cardinet's company.
George Deierling lists his employment as "Sunset Studios", a corporation which seems to have Anya Anthony as its agent.
Several employees of "Noni Connection". That company has James Titcomb, another old Mike Gabbard donor, as its "consent name",
and Nimai Titcomb, another Mike Gabbard donor, as as an officer.

Michelle Hansen and Sai Hansen, who share an address in Kailua
you can find a blog about a golf tournament between Sai Hansen, Mike Gabbard, and Eddie Tamayo.
Sai Hansen seems to work for the Ninjai Gang, some kind of anime--which is managed by the ubiquitous Mark Fergusson, also of Healthy's, Down to Earth, etc. I seriously doubt that's a coincidence.
You might have noticed a couple of people surnamed "Harvey" donated to both Mike Gabbard and Tulsi Gabbard. (Presumably, not a gay couple.) Still more people named Harvey donated to just Mike Gabbard, and still more people named Harvey donated to just Tulsi Gabbard. But not the same people!
John Harvey and Rayna Harvey of "Top Seek LLC",
along with Michael Tatzber of "Top Seek",
and Cassandra Holmes, who shares an address with Michael Tatzber, contributed to Tulsi Gabbard's campaign.

You'll notice Michael Tatzber's name, right by Tim Anthony, Tulsi Gabbard, Clifford Hillier, Donna Lay, Alison Riggs, and Janet Bishop, as well as Healthy's agent Mark Fergusson, on this petition.
"Top Seek" seems to be a company in both Sacramento and Hawaii. Several common donors are in Sacramento or the Sacramento area. For example, well, Josh Harvey is in Fair Oaks, as are Carol Lent and Robert Lent, and Frederick Sands is in Sacramento.
Michael Tatzber seems to have written an article on Noni juice. Recall the "Noni Connection" company run by old Mike Gabbard donors. Also, Michael Harvey apparently is sales manager of a Noni company.

Cassandra Holmes and John Harvey live together in Kailua Where George Deierling, Franklin Santana and Clifford Hillier (of Down to Earth), Swarup Tibby, Kainoa Penaroza, and Kalindi Titcomb (of Noni Connection), John Bishop, Eduardo Tamayo, Donna Lay, Mary Papish, Anya Anthony, Tim Anthony, Lawrence Olsen, Steve Telander, Michael Jones, Amanda Lowther, Patricia Compton, Mary Hillier, and Janet Bishop all(!) live.

Tim O'Connor of Dana Point seems to be the registered agent of the "Vedanta Enlightenment Devotional Association" with " Kathy Hoshijo O'Connor". And Kathy Hoshijo is a former HI politician who ran for office as part of Chris Butler's group.

Vrinda Strickland of Kailua
Paul Strickland was another participant in Mike Gabbard's golf game,
Stoka Strickland is listed as a manager of the Ninjai group.
Richard Fried is a big Democratic donor. Richard Fried also donated to Mike's state legislative races when Mike was running as a Republican.

Joseph G. Pickard, his wife Elissa Pickard, and employees of the Pickard companies Environet, Sea Hawaii, and Community Planning and Engineering

Construction and Development Leaders Who Gave to Gabbard
• Wagdy Guirguis, president of infrastructure development firm GMP International: $5,000
• Albert Shigemura, executive with PVT Landfill: $1,300
• Derek Mukai, engineer for development firm Community Planning and Engineering: $1,000
• Anson Murayama, CEO of Community Planning and Engineering: $1,000
• Vicki Gaynor, vice president of Big Island-based engineering and construction consulting firm Environet: $1,000
• Patrick Kubota, CFO of Environet: $1,000
• Micah Kane, Kamehameha Schools trustee: $600
• Glenn Okino, president of Mitsunaga Construction: $500
• Brian Stepp, vice president of Environet: $500
• Thomas McCabe, CEO of Environet: $500
• Victor Kimura, vice president for hotel owner and developer Kyo-ya: $500
• Jeffrey Kissel, CEO of the Gas Company LLC: $500
• Chan OK Mitsunaga, vice president of construction management firm Mitsunaga & Associates: $500
• Dennis Mitsunaga, president and CEO of construction management firm Mitsunaga & Associates: $500
• Terri Ann Otani, corporate secretary for Mitsunaga & Associates: $500
• Cameron Nekota, lawyer for development firm D.R. Horton: $400
• Kekoa Kaluhiwa, director of external affairs for First Wind, former staffer in Sen. Daniel Akaka's office: $250
• Stephen Kelly, vice president of Aina Nui Corp, an affiliate company of the James Campbell Company: $250