Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
dharmabum
()
Date: October 17, 2011 09:52AM
You're right corboy. You mentioned last time, in yoga, participants let down their guards because that is required or is the spirit of the exercise; and in that manner, participants are in the most vulnerable state of mind to manipulation. Kirtan used to be the attractant when I joined the cult in the 70s, because the era was dominated by rock and roll. Funnily, Chris Butler discouraged or even derided people engaging in yoga, calling the exercise useless, has nothing to do with God and even offensive, as yoga was more associated with impersonal Hinduism. Just shows how the belief system could shift gear if it benefits them. The most diabolical move the cult has turned to is train and brainwash the children to becoming like mini-Wai Lanas and pose as yoga experts and Health food enthusiasts to the public and help the cult recruit new member through the above method of manipulation. These young children are unaware they become tools for nefarious and insidious motive. Between Wai Lana and Tulsi, I believe the former is more misleading. Both are, but with Tulsi and her dad, they will be more exposed to public scrutiny and be easily exposed. Wai Lana's method looked more innocent because it goes under the radar of public scrutiny. Just watch her program on PBS, it's shamelessly diabolical and hypocritical. If this cult is to be exposed, this darker trend in yoga exercises should be raised publicly. When people sacrifice their children's welfare, their husbands', wives', family members' and friends' wellbeings for someone else's benefit and is packaged deceitfully in a form as innocent looking as yoga, the deceit and pain it brings to society, it becomes a valid social issue. Deception is Chris Butler's game from day one. He conned his way to Iskcon and even to the larger Gaudiya Math; he will con his way through the yoga movement that caters to the young middle class sector of society as he conned the young hippies in the 70s. What else is new? Just the packaging; the demographic and the game remain the same.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: October 18, 2011 03:25AM
The kirtan stuff is still around. There are a lot of 'bhakti' events. Just google the word and you will find all sorts of events.
All that devotional singing and gathering can be another place where people become trustful, let their guard down and without realizing it, become targets for opportunists who exploit other people's sincerity.
All that devotional singing and gathering can be another place where people become trustful, let their guard down and without realizing it, become targets for opportunists who exploit other people's sincerity.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: October 21, 2011 12:14AM
Quote
dharmabum
Funnily, Chris Butler discouraged or even derided people engaging in yoga, calling the exercise useless, has nothing to do with God and even offensive, as yoga was more associated with impersonal Hinduism. Just shows how the belief system could shift gear if it benefits them.
The most diabolical move the cult has turned to is train and brainwash the children to becoming like mini-Wai Lanas and pose as yoga experts and Health food enthusiasts to the public and help the cult recruit new member through the above method of manipulation.Quote
You NAILED IT dharmabum. Wai sells her "raw food" bars at Whole Foods. They are full of sugar and probably made by slave devotee labor.
There is also a HUGE sub-culture that is different than the 70's that are getting sucked in. Corboy is right -- there are all sorts of yoga and bhakti festivals peopled with all kinds of cult elements. Butler's decentralized, "we are not sectarian" strategy has been very effective. He still has his core people, but an army of unaffiliated promoters. I have been in contact with people who are not followers, but they see nothing wrong with promoting Wai Lana or Butler devotee musicians at their events. It's amazing how many young people are in the wake of the spiritual movements of the past. Only it is all played out on the internet and "faires". They work regular jobs and then on vacation and weekends go off to rural festivals in the woods.
Is the younger generation really more intelligent and less suseptible to cult influences? I don't think so. It is just the marketing is different. The management style and organization of the cult has also changed. People do not need to be in close proximity to the guru any more. Everything is online. Demands of followers have also changed. Butler no longer needs so many "explicit" followers to run his empire. He only needs his money machine oiled. Followers really do not realize that he does not give a shit if they chant or follow the regulative principles or not.
Butler's playbook is not so different than some of the Islamist cults around the world. Decentralized cells vs world centers (which was the ISKCON organization model). It is particularly effective because of the internet and the new generation's broader knowledge base compared to the hippies.
Lately I have found more exers. Facebook is loaded. There are all sort of Krishna splinter groups that are not organized or involved with any one guru. While others have new gurus or just live their lives thinking that AC Bhaktivedanta was the "real" and only Prabhupad. Most are not organized and do not promote. They are "devotee retirees" reminicing about past exploits in the cult.
Some exers no longer chant but still hang on to pictures of Krishna and some of the concepts (like reincarnation, vegetarianism). Some have just gone on to lives where they practice the basics and enjoy the philosophy without the chains to Butler or another figure head. Their grown children usually do not follow their parent's cult faith, but may still be vegetarians. There are still loosely organized chanting get togethers.
Some exers revealed long estrangements from family, particulary their children. One man just united with his 35 year old daughter, 30 years after the mother ran away to "serve" Butler. Heartwarming, but a tremendous loss for both. There are some things lost that can not be recovered...
The most common thing I have seen is that most exers do not want to talk about or dwell on their past involvement and just want to move on. Talking about it is painful and even embarassing, so many will not post on this forum, which was a surprise to me.
The other curious thing to me is the absolute obliviousness of people who still follow Butler and see nothing wrong...
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: October 21, 2011 12:23AM
This new book might be of interest to people who claim disassociative personality disorders based on cult involvement.
The reason why I posted it here is that the story of the relationship between Sybil and her psychiatrist mirrors what happens to followers and gurus. The follower promotes the lies to please the guru, etc. Once in, you can not get out of the web of deceit.
Sybil was Psychiatrist's Creation
The reason why I posted it here is that the story of the relationship between Sybil and her psychiatrist mirrors what happens to followers and gurus. The follower promotes the lies to please the guru, etc. Once in, you can not get out of the web of deceit.
Sybil was Psychiatrist's Creation
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: October 21, 2011 01:46AM
Quote
The management style and organization of the cult has also changed. People do not need to be in close proximity to the guru any more.
This is the difference between the old fashioned fixed length leather leashes used to secure and walk dogs with vs the new model 'extensible' leashes.
A dog may feel freer on an extensible leash--but though it is extensible...its still tied to the owner's fist.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: October 24, 2011 01:01AM
Quote
corboyQuote
The management style and organization of the cult has also changed. People do not need to be in close proximity to the guru any more.
This is the difference between the old fashioned fixed length leather leashes used to secure and walk dogs with vs the new model 'extensible' leashes.
A dog may feel freer on an extensible leash--but though it is extensible...its still tied to the owner's fist.
And therefore all the more dangerous and insidious.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
dharmabum
()
Date: October 24, 2011 05:59AM
Quote
Vera City
Is the younger generation really more intelligent and less suseptible to cult influences? I don't think so.
Must be a wishful thinking on my part. Being in the front seat of this problem, religious cults bring to many families, any parents would not like to watch helplessly as their children are led into the woods by this lying bastard who claims so much and proves nothing (obviously to impress the impressionable), and no one among them could rationally argue with. All he does is hide in the dark and not subject himself to public scrutiny, and continues to spew poison about the world outside the woods to instill deep fear, suspicion and distrust to those who beg to differ. He completely relies on his brainwashed followers for his own defense and enriches himself from their unquestioning devotion, in the comfort of his fortress; totally unconcerned about the hurt he inflicts on those who truly love these innocent victims but chose to freely inquire and disagree. I personally wish religious cults simply go away and leave families alone and intact, and for cult leaders like Chris Butler get exposed and be cornered like rats in the sewer; much like the fate that befell Moamar Ghadaffi, and other tyrants of archaic societies. Hey, it's the 21st century, these fantastic claims of disciplic succession, absolute truth, pure devotees, blah, blah, blah have no more place in the evolution of human society. I will still put my money on reason over superstition, and continue to hope that this is across the board among modern minds, especially the children's.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
Vera City
()
Date: October 25, 2011 02:59AM
Quote
dharmabum
...to watch helplessly as their children are led into the woods by this lying bastard who claims so much and proves nothing....
to instill deep fear, suspicion and distrust to those who beg to differ....
... in the comfort of his fortress; totally unconcerned about the hurt he inflicts...
Only those children and parents who were/are separated from each other can understand the pain and damage Butler has done to countless families. Some never get to see each other again. It is said that it is easier to deal with the death of a child than of a missing child you know who is alive...
Think of Gilad Shalit, captured by the Islamist cult Hamas. At least he had a whole country trying to get him back! It took 5 years.
Yeah, the childless, dispassionate Butler needs to be cornered in a spider hole.
I worry ever more about our youth in these times. The economy, the corruptions of governments, the demonstrations around the world... a similar unrest that brought about the influx of cults in the past; lots of kids seeking spiritual solace. But now the internet is a more powerful, far reaching, and rapid propaganda tool...
and there is a lot more research and knowledge on how to manipulate and captivate minds...
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
VoxVeritasVita Das
()
Date: October 25, 2011 11:04AM
You are correct Vera City, the internet is a more powerful, far reaching, and rapid propaganda tool, and we should use this tool to expose this cult of Butler, along with his minions who still believe his nonsense, his dangerous nonsense. A little research turned up these nuggets. Again, what income tax status does his group hold? Is it still a non profit tax free haven? Recognize the names???
Brand Owner (click to sort) Address Description
COUCH YOGA - Trustees of the Wai Lan Yoga Trust, TRUSTEES COMPRISING WAI LAN BUTLER AND SUNIL KHEMANEY, BOTH US CITIZENS
YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, YOGA...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
PATANJALI Compton, Patricia, J Yoga products and yoga accessories, yoga...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAMADHI MATS Trustees of the Wai Lan Yoga Trust YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, INCLUDING...
STRETCH 'N PLAY Wai Lana Productions, Yoga products and yoga accessories, yoga...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAI LANA WAI LANA PRODUCTIONS, LLC YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, YOGA...
YOGA POWER NAP Wai Lan Yoga Trust, comprising Wai Lan Butler and Sunil Khemaney, both a U.S. citizen YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, YOGA...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOGI MAT Trustees of the Wai Lan Yoga Trust YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, INCLUDING...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Moderator note: Do not post contact information (address, email address, phone, etc.) at this message board. It is against the rules you agreed to before posting here]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 08:51PM by rrmoderator.
Brand Owner (click to sort) Address Description
COUCH YOGA - Trustees of the Wai Lan Yoga Trust, TRUSTEES COMPRISING WAI LAN BUTLER AND SUNIL KHEMANEY, BOTH US CITIZENS
YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, YOGA...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
PATANJALI Compton, Patricia, J Yoga products and yoga accessories, yoga...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SAMADHI MATS Trustees of the Wai Lan Yoga Trust YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, INCLUDING...
STRETCH 'N PLAY Wai Lana Productions, Yoga products and yoga accessories, yoga...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAI LANA WAI LANA PRODUCTIONS, LLC YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, YOGA...
YOGA POWER NAP Wai Lan Yoga Trust, comprising Wai Lan Butler and Sunil Khemaney, both a U.S. citizen YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, YOGA...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
YOGI MAT Trustees of the Wai Lan Yoga Trust YOGA PRODUCTS AND YOGA ACCESSORIES, INCLUDING...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Moderator note: Do not post contact information (address, email address, phone, etc.) at this message board. It is against the rules you agreed to before posting here]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 08:51PM by rrmoderator.
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by:
dharmabum
()
Date: October 26, 2011 07:46AM
Former members who have disavowed the belief should post intelligent arguments, hard facts and helpful information about Chris Butler and the Science of Identity to serve as a warning and guide to potential victims and those who are still in the fold, but in their hearts and minds have deep seated questions and doubts about the group. If internet is their means to propagate lies, fears and traps, internet is also the means for people in the know to shed light on the cult's secrecy, ruthless record and insidious agenda. As long as this site exists, the battle between delusion and reality continuous.
In the end, lies are no match to truth, and so far, this is our only effective chance to save lives and provide comfort and knowledge to those who fell prey to the manipulative machination of the cult's elites who run and profit from the show. Thanks Rick, Vera, corboy, Vox, Googs and the rest for your unwavering fight against religious cults and fake gurus like Chris Butler.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2011 08:06AM by dharmabum.
In the end, lies are no match to truth, and so far, this is our only effective chance to save lives and provide comfort and knowledge to those who fell prey to the manipulative machination of the cult's elites who run and profit from the show. Thanks Rick, Vera, corboy, Vox, Googs and the rest for your unwavering fight against religious cults and fake gurus like Chris Butler.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2011 08:06AM by dharmabum.
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