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rrmoderator
I have edited out some recent flames on this thread regarding cultreporter.

MeanReds:

You have raised an interesting question.

Are Zelig and Initiate the same person?

This may be a case of [b:02100322cd]the pot calling the kettle black[/b:02100322cd]! :?

MeanReds has also posted under a different name: [b:02100322cd]emntk[/b:02100322cd] :o

and emntk, by the way, was once accused of by Cara herself
of "conspiring with the enemy" :?

Traitor, indeed...

:?:

just-googling:

Zelig has admitted to me that he broke the rules and posted under two names, inlcuding Zelig and Initiate.

What proof do you have that MeanReds has done this?

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rrmoderator
FYI--this thread seems unusually prone to "Internet Trolls" attempting to subvert it through lies, false identities and pretenses.

Perhaps that means Mr. Butler and his associates have come to fear the freedom of expression possible through the Internet?

Otherwise, why would they spend so much time and effort trying to subvert it?

Chris Butler's attempts to subvert the exchange of information and perception of him go way back to the burning of Sai Speaks to when he was in ISKCON with Tusta Krsna and Sudama Vipra among others speaking for him to AC Bhaktivedanta Swami making allegations which were never substantiated that he was being persecuted by devotees who objected to his re-creation of their theology to when he left ISKCON and made unsubstantiated allegations that the GBC was the result of a conspiracy (they may infact be, but he presented no evidence and is likely infact the origin of this on-going controvesy). There is an equally long history of making it appear that they are well supported in the Hindu/Viashnava/Christian community by creating lobbying organisations and political initiatives such as AARV, Dharam Rakshak, VINA, AHAD, EarthSave, Independents for Godly Government......

Wherever Chris Butler and Science of Identity go plots and intrigues follow.
This whole affair is likely all they have talked about for the past six months. Fact is if Butler doesnt go Waco there are millions of dollars and a lot of power up for grabs for whoever declares themselves the next in disciplic succession after him. If the cult is exposed before then there are people who have given years of their life to grovelling at the feet of a guy who they have had to listen to give the same handful of points that is his entire spiritual wisdom ad nausem while sucking on a toenail clipping that will become heirs to a whole lot of nothing.

Krishna Consciousness will never be able to happen again, social and financial independence of youth is no longer a novelty, information is no longer something which you need to travel across country and move into a commune to obtain. The failed and abused generations of ex followers and children have spoken out. The entire religion is like a rent controlled apartment that somehow got stuck at $7.50 a month and they all want in as soon as it is vacated - to hell with the fact that it is falling down around their ears and infested with rats.

I predict that what will happen here is that SoI will continue to try to undermine established facts the only way that they can by attacking those who present them reasoning that if they can create enough intimidation or confusion they will be able to salvage and rebuild.

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just-googling
This may be a case of [b:785f21470a]the pot calling the kettle black[/b:785f21470a]! :?

MeanReds has also posted under a different name: [b:785f21470a]emntk[/b:785f21470a] :o

and emntk, by the way, was once accused of by Cara herself
of "conspiring with the enemy" :?

Traitor, indeed...

:?:

*sigh* If I point out the gorilla in the corner intent on picking it's nose and flicking it on us while we try to ignore it but it just wont stop then can we all please[/color:785f21470a] get back to the issues here?

If anything that he ever said is able to be believed Zelig was a Sai follower, he went to school with Siddha and Kat, he is close to the same age as Chris, he was privy to the most intimate affairs of Chris including the letters that were being sent to him from Wai Lana prior to her being his wife and to have contacted his father on his behalf, he knows enough about former followers to have intimidated almost all of them off this forum which could only be true of someone who was higher up than the average follower and he claims that he left over a period of years "officially in 1984" although he was still in touch with the cult until 1990.

There are only three followers that are confirmed as being at high school with Chris, David Muncie (Tusta Krsna), Kathy Hoshijo (Katyani) and David Carr (Sudama Vipra) it wasnt that big a school. I would be willing to bet that if Sudama is still alive (there have been rumors that he is dead, although my research has not been able to confirm this) that is who zelig is. The "facts" support this since Sudama had a case of wandering devotion for quite sometime trying to set himsef up as guru as does the fact that Sudama distanced himself over this same period of time while attempting to undermine Chris through setting himself up as guru as Katayani did. Pretty much everyone else has been the subject of discussion while Sudama who was Chris' other best friend besides Tusta and a key figure in the histry of the cult has been held off limits.

The bone of contention against me has never been naming of names it has been naming of the wrong name, whom I didnt even name btw I simply took an interest in a follower [...]. The basis of the expression thou protesteth too much came to be revealed. [...]

[...]

You may have noticed that Sun[glider] came in and posted a rant about integrity etc. just prior to the zelig expose. Evidently you can take the man out of the cult but you cant take the cult out of the man - the subservient woman is a hard one to give up.

I paid no attention whatsoever when it was sugguested to me by current cult members that usurping Chris is on the agenda and perhaps there has been some pay offs being made in order to stop books and media being produced by those who are in the best position to produce them. Certainly I have seen that SoI is not above resorting to bribery. Now the total of recent events seems to add up to being that these sugguestions were unlikely just another symptom of Chris Butler's paranoia.

MeanReds is not emntk. I know MeanReds as I do a lot of people and if MR wants to support me then I am more than happy to accept the help since researching SoI is such a huge undertaking. If MR has an opinion that zelig shoud be canned that is their perogative, but there is not much else that would be done to someone who flagrantly broke the rules on the forum and admitted to doing so. At any rate emntk was never banned from this forum and was never a cult apologist.

Like sands through the hour-glass, these are the Days of Our Lives... where is that damn channel changer???[/color:785f21470a]

[b:785f21470a][rrmoderator note: I have edited out some references, which might lead to revealing someone's identity that wishes to remain anonymous. It is alright to disagree, but please respect the desire of some people on this board to remain aonymous. Also, needless name calling and personal attacks is not productive, nor is it the focus of this thread.][/b:785f21470a]

You go girl!
I'll put a channel changer in the mail to ya ;)

Finally, the mud slinging is coming to a halt.
Thank you Cultreporter & MeansRed...
some real information and facts to pass on to other
ex-Chris disciples, and the general public.

Jeez, get a life, please.

and why are people turning on their former friends?

this used to be a fun forum :cry:

:cry: :cry: :cry:

To whom it may conern:

Please try to simmer down.

Flaming each other is not a good idea, muddles the thread and serves no meaningful purpose in the long run.

Please avoid name calling.

Googling if I didn't know better I would have thought that this was another one of your jokes. You are accusing me of being a conspirer with the enemy while at the same time you are defending your friend who was kicked off this same forum twice for being a cult apologist. Ha!

Zelig would probably have some other ID he can use. Don't sweat it. Of course he'd need to create a presence with this character to the level of "Zelig" so I set him back a couple of months, tops. I guess karma does work with the set back he just gave us.

I offer you Googling the exact same invitation I offered Zelig,
that is, post something. Give us some dirt. If I'm an apologist then post something really juicy you found on the net and see how I react.

Let me show how it works. You look over the internet (Ha! Just Googling) with names and terms related to SIF and when you find something you post it here. Write emails and hit the phones. Viola easy as! And I promise from the pit of my heart that you will feel a kind of warm, fuzzy satisfaction in your belly that Zelig is not here to rag on you for doing while pretending to be on your side. Do you understand?

An example...

Thomas Muller. In a custody battle with a Rockefeller heir, Elizabeth Congor in SIF. SIF was keen to threaten the journalist who published info regarding this Rockefeller heir. He got to see his kid very occasionally and only after he'd been felt up by security then the child was sifted through the organisation hadn't seen his child for a couple of years while they complained about him not paying child support. The guy wants a relationship with his child looses large sums of money trying to have visitation. Siddha can't have outsiders messing with his children as they could be infected with some disease that might not even be immediately testable. Maybe a permanent condition who knows? The kid starts passing this disease on and he has lost any number of willing servants for an indeterminal amount of time. Kids in the cult can't be around outsiders.

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I've documented all my assets. I
haven't hidden $1.3 million of my assets, because
I've spent over $100,000 trying to save my little
boy from a cult. This is one of the last times I
saw my son, and this is what I look at every day
and this is what I haven't seen in 18 months. It's
my son, it's my boy and I will fight for him,
whether it costs me an incarceration again or not.
I have gotten documentation from Honolulu, as you
see before you. On the back of it, the writer, a
television producer, says, "Tom, here are two
articles about Rick Reed, U.S. Senate defeated
candidate, which examine his relationship to Chris
Butler", that's the guru involved in here, where my
little boy's changing Hari Krishna, which is in the
article, 18 months ago. "Although I empathize
with your problem, there is nothing I can do for
you in Hawaii. If you find that your child has
been moved here, however, please let me know. My
research partner is not encouraged by your story.
He said it is very unlikely that you will be
successful. The original Iscom people in Butler's
group, Chris Butler, have a history of child
stealing and have not been stopped in the past."
I've always said that, I've been called delusional
in court. I've been called delusional by
psychologists. This is only one of two articles
that came from Honolulu. I don't think these
people are delusional, if you read the articles. I
don't think the information I've gathered on this
group is delusional. I don't think the videotape
of my son chanting Hari Krishna is delusional.
Yet, my rights have not been allotted me. Judge
Bassick gave me 48 hours each year to see my son,
of which I was harrassed at my visitation by being
made to have body searches. Eventually he led them
to that fact that I could have body searches, if
they want.
This is from the Court Transcripts, January 3,
1991. Our court date was October of 1990. I had a
three month marriage to this girl before she ran
away seven months pregnant to this guru in Malibu
and lied the whole time. I found all kinds of
telephone records, I'm a telephone man, I know how
to talk to telephone people nationwide. I tried to
introduce that as evidence. No one wanted to hear
it.
REP. TULISANO: I'm confused. The child was in Malibu?
THOMAS MULLER: The child - I don't know where. He
won't give me the opportunity to know where my
child is.

Quote

I have no criminal record. I was just - at that
time I was never in jail. I was in jail last year
twice, once in May for failure of non-support of a
girl with $4 million. The child that I can't see,
I haven't seen in 18 months. They closed the
courtroom doors, they sealed the public off from
this. I thought I had first amendment rights.
When that article came out, I was incarcerated.
When I spoke to the writer of that article, she
informed me that the Hari Krishna group, the
Science of Identity Foundation, had threatened with
subsequent if they came out with another article,
as to the Rockefeller heirs.
I certainly should have some rights. I should know
if my child is well, where he's being kept. If you
have a child that two years and nine months that is
chanting Hari Krishna, Hari Krishna, and you can't
get him out of this trance, and you're down in
Austin, Texas, and you've got 12 hours, three
consecutive hours for four consecutive days, 4
times a year and that's all you have, you're going
to make the best use of it or you're going to give
up. These people kept telling me, why are you
still coming back here to Texas, Tom? Because
that's my boy. Because this is my boy, that's why.
Because this is my boy and I'm not giving up. Who
would? Who should? Why should anyone be treated
so horribly for no proof or documentation? This is
the last day I saw my son, August 21, 1992. Judge
Bassick hasn't even asked for one picture ever
during the course of the trial proceedings, three
and a half years. Not once has he asked. Not
once.

[search.cga.state.ct.us]

Sad, sad, a truly horrible story. But I feel so much better posting it in Zelig's booger flicking absense.

OK Googs? Is that the mark you want to leave on this thread. Your answer to Butler using brainwashing techniques on you for 10-20 years to the point you were considering [b:9cf6ee81d4]6 freakin' months of fasting for him [/b:9cf6ee81d4]and feeling guilty, oh, you drank some water. Heaven forbid! That is how you want to leave this situation, complaining about the people involved in exposing the cult or mourning the guy who would tell you the cult is not all that bad.

I stuck up for Cara sir without whom this thread would not have even half the information posted on it as it has. What is the deal with you now?


Back to Gabbard's Campaign:

[b:9cf6ee81d4]Christine Bond[/b:9cf6ee81d4] contributed $3000 to the Gabbard Campaign

Here is an interview with Christine the vegetarian on Down to Earth.

[www.downtoearth.org]

[b:9cf6ee81d4]Michael Bond[/b:9cf6ee81d4] contributed $2000 dollars to his campaign and also posted articles on down to earth.

Being Thankful - Being Vegetarian

[www.downtoearth.org]

Trans Fats: Ban Them From Your Diet

[www.downtoearth.org]

[b:9cf6ee81d4]Steve Telander[/b:9cf6ee81d4] contributed $275

healthy's INC clerk (SIF business trademark is listed as his employment)

Steve is a Down to Earth Store Manager.

Manager, Steve Telander, steve@downtoearth.org. Asst. Store Manager, Jennifer Darling, jennifer@downtoearth.org. Deli Manager, Kalani Thanee, kalani@downtoearth.org.

[www3.rotteneggs.com]

Total - $93335


Mike and Carol Gabbard business:

[www.ecoquestintl.com]

This is the Gabbard's airconditioning business EcoQuest International which is run by a highly homophobic senator and his wife whose goal is to make sure that homosexuals have no equal rights, that they have no protection from discrimination, that it is not ok to say to anyone "gay is normal", no he feels these people should have to stay indoors and keep being gay a secret from the straights because people like Gabbard and his guru have an unusual obsession with men having sex with men (wait that came out wrong I'm sure that is not what he means). He is also a member of a secretive cult that he only engages in indoors and keeps it a secret from non-cult people.

While homosexuality became more acceptable unfortunately admitting to eating your all-knowing "direct-link-to God" spiritual guru's toenails is still somewhat of a social fuax pas. Find out more on Gabbard and the cult of Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa Jagad Guru's The Science of Identity on this thread or check out the site www.cultofbutler.com.

cultreporter has many identites on here, Rick just chooses to ignore it

Boags:

What proof do you have?

If you have proof I will not ignore it.

Do you have anything objective to demonstrate your claim?