Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: zelig ()
Date: March 20, 2007 10:23AM

Glad to see the forum is back!

To understand the appeal of the group in Hawaii I am drawing your attention to an incredibly beautiful film by a woman director, Deepa Mehta from India called "Water". Its it easy to find. [movies.yahoo.com]

It is about the plight of widows in India. It takes place in 1938 during Ghandi's rise. Even today widows are sent to "ashrams" in "holy" cities like Varanasi and Vrindavan (Krishman's holy city). some are not so good even to this day. According to interpretations of sacred texts, female widows had 3 choices; they can perform the Sati rite and burn on the funeral pyre with their husbands, go to an ashram to be an ascetic to atone for sins (she is considered responsible for the death of her husband!) or she can marry their dead husband's younger brother, if he will have her (rarely).

Women are/ were considered half of her husbands, so widows are considered half a corpse. They were neglected and mistreated badly and lived in terrible poverty, even to this day (although Ghandi did improve the situation a great deal). Some widows were as young as 7 or 8 years old who had been married off to older men! (Mohamed also married a child of 6 years old when he was in his 40's or 50's, but that is another story...)

I think many years ago we all got caught up with the romanticism of India and spirituality. When in reality it is a country of extreme contrasts of spiritual heights and religious traditions coupled with the most obscene degredations of poverty, child prostitution, and ecological disasters ( e.g., the Ganges being one of the most poluted rivers on earth!)

The film really shows the beauty of the vaishnava religion, but also the dark sides of it as well. The director asks through her characters over and over again, What do you do when your conscience conflicts with your faith?" Those of us that left the cult of Siddha asked those same questions. It was not that CB was following the particular practices depicted in the film, only the spirit of the tradition was trying to be emulated in other ways. Obviously CB deviated from that stream to a great extent, but the questions of faith and conscience were the same.

Good music and lots of pictures of Krishna, kirtans, diety worship, and of course, water. The filmaker took 7 years to make it. Fanatical Hindus stopped production and burnt her in effigy, burnt her sets, and sent her death threats because they thought she was criticizing Hinduism....... and you know how religious fanatics are!!!! She had to shoot in in Shri Lanka.

Also watch the director commentary. You can view the trailer on the website.

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Dassi ()
Date: March 22, 2007 04:30AM

newbie here. Whew! I am overwhelmed. Actually I am an Ex Dassi. I still like Indian food and music. I knew the dude in Hawaii too. I'm still taking in all of this stuff. A lot to read and think about.
Not much to say 'cept it WAS a cult years ago and seems to be going strong.
like to find some old friends.

will watch the movie "WATER"

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: March 22, 2007 06:49AM

Welcome back, Zelig! :wink:

The other forum had some info on the Y2K scare that Siddha and his followers were totally into. The funniest part was after the recorded lecture was over, they took the tape and smashed it!!!

I wish we could see that recorded lecture!!! This, above anything else, I think goes to show the craziness and cultishness of this group, and of Jihad Guru himself! But now it is avian flu!

:wink:

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: zelig ()
Date: March 22, 2007 07:17AM

Yes Goog, I saw that on chriskcon.com (plug, plug)
The Y2K scare ---
What I wouldn't do to see a video of their faces at 12:01, 12:02, 12:10, 12:15, 12:30 .... :lol:

There was a time in the early 'seven o's' when ACB predicted that WWIII would start with a nuclear war between India and Pakistan. I used to own the tape. Siddha held a gathering on Kauai to talk about it - only a few people were there - It was all heavy and serious. But the prediction came from ACB, not Siddha. The talk he gave was all about that we should just try to serve the big K and chant and not get too wrapped up in fear or worry. Later, another tape came out (when WWIII didn't happened) in which ACB told everyone that it didn't happen because of world wide chanting! "Wow," we thought, "this shit really works!" Think of the dumbest Keanu Reeves 'surfer', "Whoa" you can imagine! That was us! :lol: :oops:

So, CB probably just tells everyone the same thing -- that if his predictions DON'T happen, then it's because of all of their sincere chanting! Good scam, eh!

Sylvia Brown, you could learn something from CB.... :roll:

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: zelig ()
Date: March 22, 2007 07:22AM

:idea: Oh and more importantly --- (chanting is not enough) :arrow: donations, donations, donations will avert the bird flu or any other catastophe CB predicts! Keep the money rolling in -- SAVE YOURSELVES!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: cultreporter ()
Date: March 22, 2007 08:24AM

Rick's back! We haven't been able to get a reliable connection to the forum until today for some reason - been wanting to post and say hi to everyone.

Siddha's cage is officially rattled according to words received so it is looking like there could be a lot of fun on the horizon.

Hope everyone will drop by here or the other forum that they are doing ok, I worry about some of the guys over there that have gone a little quiet.

Ex-Cultists Unite![/color:f214d717f0]

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: zelig ()
Date: March 22, 2007 08:53AM

Definition of Cult - related to Chris Butler’s group


From following link: [www.caic.org.au]
Copyright 1985, 1995 Jan Groenveld

The above linked definition of a cult is paraphrased with additions below, relating it more specifically to Chris Butler’s group. I have also added a whole section on [i:e427b36897][b:e427b36897]Children’s Rights[/b:e427b36897][/i:e427b36897]. From my perspective and opinion, the cult has changed radically over the years. I had been out of touch for over 20 years. I find much of what goes on now very shocking and unbelievable. My old self would never have joined this new manifestation of Chris Butler’s cult. If I had access to this article, or others on the internet years ago, it’s very possible that I may have left sooner. Without outside confirmation of what my inner voice was telling me, I tarried.

The older members of the cult seem to be running the show for Chris Butler now. They are the last “generation” to have had lots of free and open contact with their “spiritual master” directly. There were good years and there were fun years. There was a time when CB’s passion and charisma inspired me and others creatively and spiritually. He was genuinely kind and could be incredibly tender. But he was always off, always the narcissist. He’s aged a lot now and appears to have lost his energetic connections to his source. (see photo on March 17 update under “Imitating God” -- [www.chriskcon.com] -- he looks as old as his 80+ father). [b:e427b36897] Shame on all of you old followers who have stayed on to perpetuate his destructive deceptions! [/b:e427b36897]

With apologies to Jan Groenveld.

[b:e427b36897]Identification Marks of Chris Butler’s Cult[/b:e427b36897]
(a) The group has an elitist view of itself in relation to others, has unique causes (religious, social, and political). Participants believe they are the only one’s doing God’s will (defined as “Krishna’s” and represented by his pure and infallible representative Chris Butler); everyone else is wrong or are ‘karmis” or “demons”.
(b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be theological (against the root religion: Gaudiya Vaishnavism and the teachings of Chaitanya), spiritual (against a person’s innate knowing), social (alienates participants from social exchanges with people outside of their belief system) & psychological (a spectrum of manipulation and coercion techniques from simple peer pressure, specific meditations, to serious mind control techniques).
[b:e427b36897]How They Do This[/b:e427b36897]
1. Their leader claims a special, exclusive realization, self-appointing or elevating himself to the position of world teacher, Jagad Guru, pure devotee, whose authority is given by God and by virtue of being in a disciplic succession.
2. They believe they are the only true, non-sectarian religion and take a critical stance regarding all other religions while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
3. They use intimidation, psychological manipulation, and public humiliation to keep members loyal to their ranks (e.g., made to wear bags on the head or stickers with the word “tilly”). There are also threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain spiritual death if a follower does not comply with the guru’s wishes; being shunned by their family and friends in the group; or separating (stealing, hiding) a child from a parent who has gone astray. These components are all vital parts of the mind control process.
4. Participants will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. There is compulsory tithing (which is checked); at times signing over all their property or businesses to the group’s acting local agent (disciple); coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling goods or working for low or no wages for the group as part of their “devotional service”.
5. There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of participants will be totally absorbed into the group’s activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of meditation practices and physical/emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.
6. There will be total control over almost all aspects of their private lives. This control can be direct through communal living and working, or constant and repetitious teachings through gatherings, videos and tapes, and required amounts of specific meditation and breathing techniques. Participants will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
7. The cult claims that it is non-sectarian and has no membership or organization to join. They are told that all they need to do is to love Krishna and serve him through his one and only pure representative on earth, Chris Butler (Jagad Guru, etc).
8. Any dissent or questioning of the group’s teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion, “falling down”, being materialistic, or lacking intelligence. You will be accused of being a “crow” or a “demon”. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained by the group.
9. Participants scramble to demonstrate their loyalty and “seriousness” to the group in some way. This could be in the form of tithing lots of money, working longer hours, spying and reporting on questionable followers or enemies, or pleasing the initiated disciples in charge of recommending you for initiation to Chris Butler or to be set up with a good marriage partner in the group.
10. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with derision, slander, harassment and threats. Some members may have taken oaths of loyalty and sign confidentiality agreements that come in conflict with their own conscience. Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members or with coercion to get them to return to the group. There also can be attempts to recruit refugees by other groups with similar beliefs, but are opposed to Chris Butler’s leadership.
11. A secretive network is established that keeps information about Chris Butler’s activities away from the participants. Few members really have access to all of Chris Butler’s modus operandi or projects. Businesses are put in follower’s names, but controlled by Chris Butler. Loyal followers are taught to lie about their involvement in the group. Former participants fear retaliation for revealing the pieces of information they know.
12. Schools are set up to indoctrinate the youth and keep the cult going for generations. Education outside of the bounds of the cult is discouraged and children are given a false and horrific view of the outside world.
[b:e427b36897]Abuses of Rights and Freedoms:[/b:e427b36897]
[b:e427b36897]1. Abuse of Individuality:[/b:e427b36897] They adopt a group “devotee” mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.
[b:e427b36897]2. Abuse of Intimacy:[/b:e427b36897] Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents are broken or seriously hampered.
[b:e427b36897]3. Abuse of Finances:[/b:e427b36897] Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal settings, participants usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.
[b:e427b36897]4. “Us Versus Them” Mentality:[/b:e427b36897] Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as “maya” or “delusion” etc. Their enemies now include former friends; governments; the law; education systems; the media - the world in general. If members get involved in “materialistic” vocations such as politics, law enforcement, or business, such involvement is viewed as a “means to an end” to serve their spiritual master. Chris had one of his members in the District Attorney’s Office in Hawaii, editor of local newspapers, as well as a current Senator.
[b:e427b36897]5. Abuse of Time and Energy:[/b:e427b36897]The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. Those in the direct, personal service of Chris Butler are often in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion from keeping up with his excessive and changing demands. Labor is expected for free or for low wages.
[b:e427b36897]6. Abuse of Free Will:[/b:e427b36897] They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their “will” actually becomes the groups “will” without their realizing it. This is done either by subtle coercive methods including mantra meditation which reinforces the messages of the guru, lack of sleep, overwork, poor diet, and intimidation. The group uses “guilt” excessively.

[b:e427b36897]7. Abuse of Children:[/b:e427b36897] This was not included in Jan Groenveld’s original article. All the above items constitute child abuse.
See also ‘Childrens Bill of Rights’ [www.newciv.org]
What follows are some of the Children’s Rights that have been violated in Chris Butler’s group.
---[b:e427b36897]Right not to be exposed to prejudice[/b:e427b36897]: Children have the right NOT to be taught that one group (racial, national, religious, sexual orientation, etc.) is superior to another.
---[b:e427b36897]Right to access appropriate information and to a balanced depiction of reality:[/b:e427b36897] Children have the right to have reality presented to them in a balanced and accurately representative fashion.
---[b:e427b36897]Right to education:[/b:e427b36897] Education should foster respect for both of the child's parents (participants in the religion or not), for the child's own cultural identity, language and values, as well as for the cultural background and values of others.
---[b:e427b36897]Right to a diverse environment and creativity:[/b:e427b36897] Children have the right to have many different things, people, and ideas in their environment. Children have the right to listen to music of their choice. Children have the right NOT to have their creativity stifled.
[b:e427b36897]---Right to freedom of thought, opinion, expression, conscience, and religion:[/b:e427b36897]
Every child has the right to express his or her opinion freely, and adults should address that opinion with the child in every decision that affects him or her. Children have the right to carry out research to help form these opinions. Children have the right to express their views, obtain information, and make ideas or information known. [b:e427b36897]Children have the right to form their own views in matters of conscience and religion.[/b:e427b36897]

[b:e427b36897]Results of This Abuse[/b:e427b36897]
[b:e427b36897]1. Personality Changes:[/b:e427b36897] Relatives will say they no longer recognize the person. From a warm, loving personality will come abuse, rejection and feelings of hate. The cult member sees himself as “righteous” in comparison and this comes across in their attitude toward all outsiders.
[b:e427b36897]2. Loss of Identity: [/b:e427b36897] Ironic, as one of the front organizations of Chris Butler is called “Science of Identity”. Rather, it should be called the “Science of Wiping Out Your Identity”. Participants come to a point where they cannot see themselves as individuals apart from the group. Names are changed upon initiation or even a Krishna type “nickname” is adopted such as “Bhakta Joe” as a rejection of their former life and acceptance of the cult.
[b:e427b36897]3. Paranoid - We are Being Persecuted:[/b:e427b36897] Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as being influenced by “maya” and will lead to misery. Participants are taught that it is the greatest mercy to be chastised by the spiritual master. If you get chastised by the guru it is considered a great gift from him. Participants believe that Chris Butler is able to see in your heart and know what is best for you. If the world criticizes you, their hearts are covered up with “Maya” and can not see the truth or they are “demons”. At the same time they will feel free to criticize everyone else’s beliefs and practices because they are “the only ones who are right”.
[b:e427b36897]4. Social Disorientation:[/b:e427b36897] They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. This can go so far as to not being able to manage time or make simple decisions when they leave the cult. They find it difficult to find satisfying employment as their world view has become so altered and negative. They perceive the world through their leader’s eyes. They become very naive about life in general.
The children of participants grow up without proper educations or one that allows them to develop critical thinking skills. It makes it very difficult for them to find gainful employment if they leave the group upon maturity. In many ways, they are never able to fully mature into adult life and even upon leaving the cult, demonstrate sociopathic and maladjustment disorders.
[b:e427b36897]5. Severe Guilt Complexes: [/b:e427b36897] They are made to feel guilty of everything they did before entering the group and are to strive to be “good” and “pure enough” for “spiritual advancement” or “initiation”. Misdemeanors are made into “mountains” so that members are in a constant state of guilt for breaking even the most minor rules. Guilt comes because they aren’t doing enough; entertaining doubts or questions; even thinking rationally for oneself. Participants often repeat the expression, “Doubts are like demons, you should never entertain one.”
This guilt is constantly being laid down about what is sinful and what is not (e.g., the natural desire for sex). Illness may be seen as not taking care of yourself, or not being serious enough for the sake of serving your spiritual master. You are told only to eat to keep your body and soul together to “serve”, and not to “enjoy” food. Yet Chris and his consort demand the best of foods because they are accepting it for God. Mental and emotional illness is regarded simply as the sin of trying to be an “enjoyer” – creating more guilt. But if Chris Butler gets ill, it is only due to his taking on the sins and karma of his followers – even more guilt!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behavioural definition of the word Cult according to Kevin Crawley:

"Of course, the problem with the word 'cult' is that it means different things to different folks. I'd like to put forward a behavioral definition: An organization that uses intensive indoctrination techniques to recruit and maintain members into a totalist ideology."

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: emntk ()
Date: March 22, 2007 11:51AM

Hi guys,

Hope all is well

Since you were in the appoximate area would it be possible that you might know anything that could be a hint as to why or what the following tv, video and film companies were started for?

We all know of Jagad Guru Speaks and Wai Lana's Gold Moon Productions, Ninjai Gang and Gabbards tv stint, and Golden earth internet movies but there is also:

Registered under Healthy's

[hbe.ehawaii.gov]

[b:3c94393352]Down to Earth Productions - For video and film productions (Jan 81 - 91)

Magnum Productions - For video and film productions (Mar 81 - 91)[/b:3c94393352]

Magnum Productions was registered by Mark Fergusson in Mar of 1981 while Magnum PI (A show about a private investigator living in an expensive resort in Oahu Hawaii) was still in it's first season. Butler also had a disciple Pat bishop who was an actor on this show.

[b:3c94393352]
Sane Productions - MEDIA - FILMS-VIDEO TAPE PRODUCTIONS (Jan 81 - 91)

Summit Productions - VIDEO AND FILM PRODUCTIONS (Mar 81 - 91)

TV 5 of Hawaii - TV Broadcasting (Feb 83 - 93)[/b:3c94393352]

Registered under Science of Identity

[hbe.ehawaii.gov]
[b:3c94393352]

Films Unlimited - Filming (Dec 80 - 90)

Red Rock Studio - Video Production (Dec 88 - 99)

---------------

Ti Leaf Productions Limited - directors - Goldstein, Khemaney, Bellord, Tamayo, Muncie (nov 94) 636158[/b:3c94393352]

[www.bizoffice.co.nz]

We know this is not all the companies they have trademarked and there is no way of knowing how many they do have. Just curious any details from anyone would be interesting.

Nice articles Zelig.

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: cultreporter ()
Date: March 22, 2007 08:07PM

Quote
zelig
Definition of Cult - related to Chris Butler’s group


From following link: [www.caic.org.au]
Copyright 1985, 1995 Jan Groenveld

The above linked definition of a cult is paraphrased with additions below, relating it more specifically to Chris Butler’s group. I have also added a whole section on [i:91494bf001][b:91494bf001]Children’s Rights[/b:91494bf001][/i:91494bf001]. From my perspective and opinion, the cult has changed radically over the years. I had been out of touch for over 20 years. I find much of what goes on now very shocking and unbelievable. My old self would never have joined this new manifestation of Chris Butler’s cult. If I had access to this article, or others on the internet years ago, it’s very possible that I may have left sooner. Without outside confirmation of what my inner voice was telling me, I tarried.

The older members of the cult seem to be running the show for Chris Butler now. They are the last “generation” to have had lots of free and open contact with their “spiritual master” directly. There were good years and there were fun years. There was a time when CB’s passion and charisma inspired me and others creatively and spiritually. He was genuinely kind and could be incredibly tender. But he was always off, always the narcissist. He’s aged a lot now and appears to have lost his energetic connections to his source. (see photo on March 17 update under “Imitating God” -- [www.chriskcon.com] -- he looks as old as his 80+ father). [b:91494bf001] Shame on all of you old followers who have stayed on to perpetuate his destructive deceptions! [/b:91494bf001]

With apologies to Jan Groenveld.

[b:91494bf001]Identification Marks of Chris Butler’s Cult[/b:91494bf001]
(a) The group has an elitist view of itself in relation to others, has unique causes (religious, social, and political). Participants believe they are the only one’s doing God’s will (defined as “Krishna’s” and represented by his pure and infallible representative Chris Butler); everyone else is wrong or are ‘karmis” or “demons”.
(b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be theological (against the root religion: Gaudiya Vaishnavism and the teachings of Chaitanya), spiritual (against a person’s innate knowing), social (alienates participants from social exchanges with people outside of their belief system) & psychological (a spectrum of manipulation and coercion techniques from simple peer pressure, specific meditations, to serious mind control techniques).
[b:91494bf001]How They Do This[/b:91494bf001]
1. Their leader claims a special, exclusive realization, self-appointing or elevating himself to the position of world teacher, Jagad Guru, pure devotee, whose authority is given by God and by virtue of being in a disciplic succession.
2. They believe they are the only true, non-sectarian religion and take a critical stance regarding all other religions while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
3. They use intimidation, psychological manipulation, and public humiliation to keep members loyal to their ranks (e.g., made to wear bags on the head or stickers with the word “tilly”). There are also threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain spiritual death if a follower does not comply with the guru’s wishes; being shunned by their family and friends in the group; or separating (stealing, hiding) a child from a parent who has gone astray. These components are all vital parts of the mind control process.
4. Participants will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. There is compulsory tithing (which is checked); at times signing over all their property or businesses to the group’s acting local agent (disciple); coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling goods or working for low or no wages for the group as part of their “devotional service”.
5. There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of participants will be totally absorbed into the group’s activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of meditation practices and physical/emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.
6. There will be total control over almost all aspects of their private lives. This control can be direct through communal living and working, or constant and repetitious teachings through gatherings, videos and tapes, and required amounts of specific meditation and breathing techniques. Participants will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
7. The cult claims that it is non-sectarian and has no membership or organization to join. They are told that all they need to do is to love Krishna and serve him through his one and only pure representative on earth, Chris Butler (Jagad Guru, etc).
8. Any dissent or questioning of the group’s teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion, “falling down”, being materialistic, or lacking intelligence. You will be accused of being a “crow” or a “demon”. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained by the group.
9. Participants scramble to demonstrate their loyalty and “seriousness” to the group in some way. This could be in the form of tithing lots of money, working longer hours, spying and reporting on questionable followers or enemies, or pleasing the initiated disciples in charge of recommending you for initiation to Chris Butler or to be set up with a good marriage partner in the group.
10. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with derision, slander, harassment and threats. Some members may have taken oaths of loyalty and sign confidentiality agreements that come in conflict with their own conscience. Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members or with coercion to get them to return to the group. There also can be attempts to recruit refugees by other groups with similar beliefs, but are opposed to Chris Butler’s leadership.
11. A secretive network is established that keeps information about Chris Butler’s activities away from the participants. Few members really have access to all of Chris Butler’s modus operandi or projects. Businesses are put in follower’s names, but controlled by Chris Butler. Loyal followers are taught to lie about their involvement in the group. Former participants fear retaliation for revealing the pieces of information they know.
12. Schools are set up to indoctrinate the youth and keep the cult going for generations. Education outside of the bounds of the cult is discouraged and children are given a false and horrific view of the outside world.
[b:91494bf001]Abuses of Rights and Freedoms:[/b:91494bf001]
[b:91494bf001]1. Abuse of Individuality:[/b:91494bf001] They adopt a group “devotee” mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.
[b:91494bf001]2. Abuse of Intimacy:[/b:91494bf001] Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents are broken or seriously hampered.
[b:91494bf001]3. Abuse of Finances:[/b:91494bf001] Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal settings, participants usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.
[b:91494bf001]4. “Us Versus Them” Mentality:[/b:91494bf001] Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as “maya” or “delusion” etc. Their enemies now include former friends; governments; the law; education systems; the media - the world in general. If members get involved in “materialistic” vocations such as politics, law enforcement, or business, such involvement is viewed as a “means to an end” to serve their spiritual master. Chris had one of his members in the District Attorney’s Office in Hawaii, editor of local newspapers, as well as a current Senator.
[b:91494bf001]5. Abuse of Time and Energy:[/b:91494bf001]The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. Those in the direct, personal service of Chris Butler are often in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion from keeping up with his excessive and changing demands. Labor is expected for free or for low wages.
[b:91494bf001]6. Abuse of Free Will:[/b:91494bf001] They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their “will” actually becomes the groups “will” without their realizing it. This is done either by subtle coercive methods including mantra meditation which reinforces the messages of the guru, lack of sleep, overwork, poor diet, and intimidation. The group uses “guilt” excessively.

[b:91494bf001]7. Abuse of Children:[/b:91494bf001] This was not included in Jan Groenveld’s original article. All the above items constitute child abuse.
See also ‘Childrens Bill of Rights’ [www.newciv.org]
What follows are some of the Children’s Rights that have been violated in Chris Butler’s group.
---[b:91494bf001]Right not to be exposed to prejudice[/b:91494bf001]: Children have the right NOT to be taught that one group (racial, national, religious, sexual orientation, etc.) is superior to another.
---[b:91494bf001]Right to access appropriate information and to a balanced depiction of reality:[/b:91494bf001] Children have the right to have reality presented to them in a balanced and accurately representative fashion.
---[b:91494bf001]Right to education:[/b:91494bf001] Education should foster respect for both of the child's parents (participants in the religion or not), for the child's own cultural identity, language and values, as well as for the cultural background and values of others.
---[b:91494bf001]Right to a diverse environment and creativity:[/b:91494bf001] Children have the right to have many different things, people, and ideas in their environment. Children have the right to listen to music of their choice. Children have the right NOT to have their creativity stifled.
[b:91494bf001]---Right to freedom of thought, opinion, expression, conscience, and religion:[/b:91494bf001]
Every child has the right to express his or her opinion freely, and adults should address that opinion with the child in every decision that affects him or her. Children have the right to carry out research to help form these opinions. Children have the right to express their views, obtain information, and make ideas or information known. [b:91494bf001]Children have the right to form their own views in matters of conscience and religion.[/b:91494bf001]

[b:91494bf001]Results of This Abuse[/b:91494bf001]
[b:91494bf001]1. Personality Changes:[/b:91494bf001] Relatives will say they no longer recognize the person. From a warm, loving personality will come abuse, rejection and feelings of hate. The cult member sees himself as “righteous” in comparison and this comes across in their attitude toward all outsiders.
[b:91494bf001]2. Loss of Identity: [/b:91494bf001] Ironic, as one of the front organizations of Chris Butler is called “Science of Identity”. Rather, it should be called the “Science of Wiping Out Your Identity”. Participants come to a point where they cannot see themselves as individuals apart from the group. Names are changed upon initiation or even a Krishna type “nickname” is adopted such as “Bhakta Joe” as a rejection of their former life and acceptance of the cult.
[b:91494bf001]3. Paranoid - We are Being Persecuted:[/b:91494bf001] Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as being influenced by “maya” and will lead to misery. Participants are taught that it is the greatest mercy to be chastised by the spiritual master. If you get chastised by the guru it is considered a great gift from him. Participants believe that Chris Butler is able to see in your heart and know what is best for you. If the world criticizes you, their hearts are covered up with “Maya” and can not see the truth or they are “demons”. At the same time they will feel free to criticize everyone else’s beliefs and practices because they are “the only ones who are right”.
[b:91494bf001]4. Social Disorientation:[/b:91494bf001] They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. This can go so far as to not being able to manage time or make simple decisions when they leave the cult. They find it difficult to find satisfying employment as their world view has become so altered and negative. They perceive the world through their leader’s eyes. They become very naive about life in general.
The children of participants grow up without proper educations or one that allows them to develop critical thinking skills. It makes it very difficult for them to find gainful employment if they leave the group upon maturity. In many ways, they are never able to fully mature into adult life and even upon leaving the cult, demonstrate sociopathic and maladjustment disorders.
[b:91494bf001]5. Severe Guilt Complexes: [/b:91494bf001] They are made to feel guilty of everything they did before entering the group and are to strive to be “good” and “pure enough” for “spiritual advancement” or “initiation”. Misdemeanors are made into “mountains” so that members are in a constant state of guilt for breaking even the most minor rules. Guilt comes because they aren’t doing enough; entertaining doubts or questions; even thinking rationally for oneself. Participants often repeat the expression, “Doubts are like demons, you should never entertain one.”
This guilt is constantly being laid down about what is sinful and what is not (e.g., the natural desire for sex). Illness may be seen as not taking care of yourself, or not being serious enough for the sake of serving your spiritual master. You are told only to eat to keep your body and soul together to “serve”, and not to “enjoy” food. Yet Chris and his consort demand the best of foods because they are accepting it for God. Mental and emotional illness is regarded simply as the sin of trying to be an “enjoyer” – creating more guilt. But if Chris Butler gets ill, it is only due to his taking on the sins and karma of his followers – even more guilt!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Behavioural definition of the word Cult according to Kevin Crawley:

"Of course, the problem with the word 'cult' is that it means different things to different folks. I'd like to put forward a behavioral definition: An organization that uses intensive indoctrination techniques to recruit and maintain members into a totalist ideology."

Options: ReplyQuote
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: cultreporter ()
Date: March 22, 2007 08:10PM

This is the post that I clicked submit on just now and the above is what happened - gremlins I say. Anyway it was worth reading again.

Zelig wrote : He’s aged a lot now and appears to have lost his energetic connections to his source. (see photo on March 17 update under “Imitating God” -- [www.chriskcon.com] -- he looks as old as his 80+ father).

:o That pic was taken at least four years ago too :o

I saw one pic of Siddha at his approximate age the whole time I was on the Gold Coast.

I only wish that I had the pic that used to be on the altar at our house. He was about forty, had the signs of a receeding hairline, hair was a mess and a scraggly beard - it was the most unattractive youngish pic of him I have ever seen. Just the expression on his face he looked like a complete bum. I used to wonder if it was payback on Brens behalf (since it was the picture he had chosen to put on the altar) since one of the few words Siddha ever spoke to him was to tell him that he was a "dorky looking guy". There were people coming to new peoples classes for months that thought guru was thirty.

Could it be his bad karma for exploiting his looks to bring in followers back in the Sai days?

On the $$$ this is pretty interesting I thought
[www.taxexemptworld.com]

Quote

Organization that normally receives no more than one third of its support from gross investment income and unrelated business income and at the same time more than one third of its support from contributions, fees, and gross receipts related to exempt purposes

That file ought to contain some real interesting information, including the amount of assets and income of SoI (officially, of course in reality with all the businesses and such it would be a lot more I am sure) Am I the only one that suspects that the businesses which take a percent of followers income in service donate their tax to SoI and get a refund so everybody wins? (except those who arent disciples/close friends of Siddha) The big disciples over here are pretty damn rich for people that like to big note themselves for giving so much money to Siddha.

That is a great article Zelig - something badly needs to be done for the sake of these children.

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.