Thanks, freeatlast. "Justin" sounds familiar. We used the gauranga and "gopala govinda rama" mantras. He said they had been passed to him by "some people" and he just wanted to share it with others. On the surface, all very nice, other than some occassionally bizarre and unsettling ways of making a point. And, especially given the small size of the class, he was not particularly warm or open. Kind of unusual for Hilo, where everyone usually takes a little time to "talk story".

hi- I'm new to this forum. First of all, thanks to all for dedicating time to help people understand what CB is all about. I'm a relative of someone who "escaped" and would so appreciate any tips on reviving and carrying on a normal relationship with this person. It's like walking on eggshells; no one knows what to say/what not to say and do. Our family is very tight so when I read about the hogwash that she has been told concerning family, I wonder how long it will be before she feels comfortable around us and if it will ever be, as it once was? Any suggestions on counseling/psychologists etc? How long will these crazy eating habits continue?? Thanks.

That was a great link hempbird, I had not seen that blog before. Slowly information about Dharma Farms is coming out.Just another front organisation to bring people in and then get free labour to boot.

With regards to Justin, if he has been initiated then it would be something that started with a J since all CBs "spiritual names" are assigned like
this - unless you are someone who was a disciple of ACB (they would all be in their 50s at least) you actually register to CB as a person like Krishna Katha Mike Gabbard or you have an unusual first letter for vedic names eg Fiona = Gayatri. This is a curious fact that may help in identifying his followers.

On the maha mantra no they never chant it. The official reason is because CB says that people are not attracted to hearing about God, so the only way to help them to develop that attraction is to get them chanting. Typical circular reasoning. Total bs since what they are chanting anyway is names of Krishna, just they dont know it, so no one catches on that this humble meditation centre is really a religious type thing. The new
people that catch on are always pretty annoyed about it. It is common to hear people leaving talking about feelings of being misled and not see them again. The followers must realise this, but as with everything they just keep doing as CB says.

Hempbird would love to hear the details of what was strange and unsettling if you feel ok to talk about it. Was homophobia a theme? Were there advertisements that attracted you to the course and what did they offer?

TT if she left by herself then that is a positive step for her, obviously she was not completely brainwashed into accepting CB as if he is God.

I think it would be best to not be confrontational about the cult, and not sugguesting that you would but I know from experience it doesnt really help to hear things like damn how could you be so stupid? What on earth were you thinking to get involved with these people? It effects you very deep inside and to have people around that can just help you acclimatise to normality again would be a big help.

It would have been drilled into her not to hear offences and this may take some time to ease up. It may be best not to talk about her experiences in the cult unless she wants to bring it up. If she has been reading or hearing negative things about the cult then she would realise that it is not just her, and that is an important step to recovery. CB likes to make sure that everyone believes they are just a demon, it was their bad karma that made them not be able to go to Krishna. Only they had a bad experience or they "went crazy" Try to keep everyone quiet and not communicating with others so the truth about him does not come out.

Small experiences that let you enjoy the happiness and freedom of the real world help. Stuff like going to the movies or shopping. Whatever she was into before maybe you could help her to revisit that. Devotee
life is very restrictive and no fun. I started buying CDs and listening to music again, but it took me a little while to make that simple step.

It may be best not to worry about the eating habits -you mean the retrictions right? As long as she is eating. Gradually they may let up. Vegetarianism is a deeply ideological thing, and this would have been thoroughly drilled into her as well.

Most ex cult services and exit counsellors are christian based and do not really understand the different issues from Krishna cults, although they do try. There is a lot of useful information on Rick Ross about where to get help.

It depends on how deeply she was involved and how long she was in for. Usually the blacklisting and shunning prevents people from being able to go back. There is a chance though that they may try to win her over again.

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www.chriskcon.com

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hempbird
Does anyone have pictures of the Hilo/Puna SOIers? I live here and it was a little alarming to run across this recruitment at a very reputable yoga center. I'd sort of like to know who to look out for, besides just having my curiousity fully piqued.

If we can get pictures/names we will publish them on chriskcon. Anyone can register for the gallery and upload themselves or email them if they prefer.

As a point of interest we have had two users one from Gold Coast and one in Brisbane banned in the last two days for trying to access the gallery. Not that we want to check who is coming to the site, but when someone clicks an access forbidden 6347 times then we get a little curious and check what location they are from (you can see country and town no personal details this is on any website) No human person does this of course, it is obviously a program that wants to access the gallery. After the first one was banned another one came on to try again, slightly different point of attack but obvious pattern and excessive viewings of pages that no-body would want to look at. 3829 views of the gallery admin.

This is what SoI is like - how many times have I and a lot of other people tried to communicate with them, get some answers, offer to hear their side and they would rather lobby to have blogs taken down and when confronted with a real website that they cant challenge would still rather resort to attempted hacking.

You made a mistake guys and the way that you are going about addressing it is not going to change anything. The dumbest thing is that the gallery even if it was taken down would be back up within an hour and it does not give access to the rest of the site.

So if you really want to annoy SoI pics are obviously the way to go.

If you really object to something on the site or want to discuss it then maybe give email a try. The opportunity is always there for anyone who wants to take it.

Thanks for the helpful advice Cultreporter. I've got more concerns which you may be able to help me get my head around. I've read that people involved in cults are basically trained not to be able to think independently. Can anyone comment on this? This may explain what we consider bizarre behavior, in that her actions and behavior are sometimes that of a small child; and simply, logical thought processes no longer seem to exist. Do you think it's a matter of re-training? Thanks.[/img]

The cumulative effect of practicing meditation, in conjunction with a low protein diet and being in a manipulative and co-ercive environment can have a very strong impact.

Although it is not the same for everyone there can be long term adverse effects to practicing meditation. There has been studies that show that

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During meditation, people have a loss of the sense of self and frequently experience a sense of no space and time and that was exactly what we saw." The complex interaction between different areas of the brain also resembles the pattern of activity that occurs during other so-called spiritual or mystical experiences.

[www.crystalinks.com]

This in conjunction with Chris Butler's teachings that you are not the body or the mind can easily undermine a person's sense of identity and make them into a chanting/serving machine, which of course is highly beneficial to a meglomaniacal cult leader who lives a good life off exploiting others.

In Chris Butler's cult everything is regulated, what you eat who you associate with, what you should be thinking and doing. The changes that you are noticing in her are the effect of being involved with SoI no doubt.

If the person that you are talking about is young young people are not mentally developed enough to be able to deal with SoI and still maintain their sense of identity.

It is possible to recover from this, but a key part of that is in realising that Chris Butler is a hoax. He tells people that doubt is their mind deluding them and that they are doomed if they go along with it. Basically he instills in people a fear and doubt in thinking for themselves.

This is where you would have to be very careful in trying to help though because as I said before it is deeply ingrained not to hear offences about him.

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cultreporter
:?: On the subject of war - is there any truth to these stories I am getting that Chris was a draft dodger in Vietnam?

He was certainly of the right age to be drafted back in 1966 (18 years old?) -- but I personally have never heard of Chris being a draft dodger.

One could get out of the draft for medical reasons and some doctors would falsify diseases in order to help people not get drafted (Will Butler???). Or you could leave the country (most went to Canada, where they were welcomed, I believe).

8)

I have been reading with some interest the letters from the Philippines as posted on the chrisKcon website (site updates March 5 - "site not found" section).

These many letters by the followers of Kris Butler and from Kris Butler himself just go to show how fanatical these people have become. Still believing themselves NOT to be fanatical religious followers but the only real devotees of God/Jesus, they need to stop for a minute and look in the mirror at themselves here.

the letters of reply from the devotee who sneaked off during the night are very well written, well composed, and are excellent retorts to the accusations being held against him. These letters are enough evidence that kris and his followers are somewhat like a train that has come off its tracks and going for a bumpy ride. I mean, four van loads of angry devotees going to threaten an old guru from India and accusing him of "stealing" their disciple, when this was absolutely NOT the case at all!!!
AND the devotee who left to hear the old guru from India was threatened with physical violence!!!

thanks for posting these letters!

Also: job well done on "Eve of Destruction"[/color:6ec021bdcf] -- "you don't believe in war but what's that gun your're toting?"[/color:6ec021bdcf]

GREAT STUFF!

:wink:

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just-googling
Also: job well done on "Eve of Destruction"[/color:90d16032e4] -- "you don't believe in war but what's that gun you're toting?"[/color:90d16032e4] GREAT STUFF! :wink:

Thanks that is my favourite but I actually made it for you for all the laughs you have given me around here and for reminding me of that great song.

Thought I might mention Attahasa (Chriskcon's monthly newsletter) is behind schedule because I am recovering from surgery at the moment.

Don't party yet Chris I'm getting better.[/color:90d16032e4] :P

Sorry to everyone on the subscribe list it will be very very soon and you can still sign up if you want. Big article on Vege Chips this issue. Dammit cos I used to love those things before I was a devotee. Infact I lived on them when I was a student because they were the only vegetarian food my college had. Maybe the prashadam does work? :wink: Scary thought Maybe I have consumed his foot water too??[/color:90d16032e4]

I think this is pretty self-explanatory. Their website where you can find their contact details is [www.gokulahouse.org]

Dear Ant and other members of Gokula House Meditation Centre,

I am writing in response to your post on our guestbook at www.chriskcon.com seeking to advertise "Gokula House" in Melbourne.

You say that there is a meditation centre there for anyone who would like to come and decide for themselves.

By anyone does that mean that you welcome Cara James (myself), who has been blacklisted since October to come to your centre?

If this is the case then I would be happy to take up this open invitation and am free to travel.

Are you seeking to imply that there is information on Chriskcon which is misleading?

If this is the case you are most welcome to discuss this and we would be happy to listen to what you have to say. The attempt to speak to followers of Chris Butler has only been met with vague accusations of not telling the truth and assertions that Chris Butler is perfect rather than refuting the facts presented.

As a sign of good faith to the guests of our site that you are attempting to recruit you may like to engage in a discussion of the many issues that this site discusses with regards to the Science of Identity.

You are infact welcome to contribute to chriskcon - for inspiration perhaps you may look at the Questions to SoI which have remained unanswered. You may also like to tell our readers if you would like to use Chriskcon to promote your centre why there is no mention of Chris Butler under any of his aliases on your website, although you clearly seek to defend him and are perpetuating his teachings as outlined in the Is this class taught by SoI article.

Have you even bothered to read any of the articles on the site or are you simply acting out of blind faith that anyone could possibly ciriticise your "perfect" guru. Have you ever even met Chris Butler? Do you really think that it is the act of a perfect spiritual master to hide the facts that he was initiated by Sivananda Ashram and openly admits to using LSD, who has broken vows of Sanyassi and disobeyed his own spiritual master and concealed not one but two marriages from his followers, who lives a millionaire lifestyle while renouncing materialism, concerns himself with war and politics and business interests when he can't even build a temple, meet his disciples - even to initiate them, and claims to be the teacher of the whole world while he hides away unable to even answer questions that are put to him?

If you are such a supporter of link exchange and people finding out for themselves perhaps you would like to post a link to Chriskcon on your website?

We cannot in good conscience allow promotion of an organisation on chriskcon.com which seeks to indoctrinate people under false pretences to be part of a dangerous cult except to draw attention to unethical and dishonest practices and the fact that you are so uncertain and/or ashamed of these and/or your guru that you cannot admit to musch less defend your connection in response to thoroughly researched facts which demonstrate that you are part of a cult.

As our site is based on research we are willing to give you the oppotunity to respond and engage in further contact. If we do not hear from you then clearly you are already aware or are not willing to admit to yourself the truth of what you are a part of and the destructive effects it has on people's lives.

Yours Sincerely

Cara and Ash

PS - We wonder if Chris Butler has authorised you to post a website which arguably his two biggest opponents own and are using to disseminate information about him and his organisations which is not very flattering had no knowledge of. ASM at Nobby's Beach deleted their newsletter in October last year when the criticism was just forum posts. ASM in the West End deleted theirs around January.