Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: just-googling ()
Date: January 19, 2007 11:46PM

emntk - your info on eclipses and Rahu is correct... When I was part of the group (read: [i:330ab61975]zombified[/i:330ab61975]), we believed that this was some mystical thing going on with Rahu, which is calculated as the [b:330ab61975]nodes[/b:330ab61975] of the moon, sometimes called the dragon's head (north node) and the dragon's tail (south node)... But mystical or not, we can still see the shadow of the earth eclipsing the moon during a lunar eclipse! It is plainly obvious that it is the [b:330ab61975]shadow[/b:330ab61975] cast by the planet earth... and not Rahu that is attacking the moon!!! And the fact that the calculations can be so accurate - they can even pinpoint the exact location of the total solar eclipses!

The situation is quite reminscent of Galileo, when he saw four small moons orbiting around Jupiter and declared that the earth was not the centre of the universe... The [b:330ab61975]church[/b:330ab61975], however, imprisoned him for saying this!

I am sure there is also a statement in the Bhagavatam about the size of the Universe -- that is way, way, way off the mark - [b:330ab61975]200,000 yohanas[/b:330ab61975], if my memory serves me well -- this is also [b:330ab61975]quite ridiculous[/b:330ab61975] as well!

Note how Kris Kringle will not touch upon this topic in his many lectures!

:idea: Why did Kris Kringle?

:arrow: Because Wai tingle!

Sorry, folks, I'm running out of Siddha jokes!

:arrow: Kris Kringle is the man who tried to convince everyone that he was the real Santa Claus and eventually goes to court to prove his identity... there is an older version of the movie and a modern version - quite good movies, actually, (Miracle on 34th Street????)[/size:330ab61975]


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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: emntk ()
Date: January 20, 2007 01:56AM

[b:cd399bf5e1]Lunar eclipse[/b:cd399bf5e1]

The lunar eclipse is another one. Which happens 2-4 times per year although often it is not visible with the naked eye. You will notice that the lunar eclipse usually occurs once every 176-177 days which is equal to six orbits of the earth. Penumbral eclipses can occur three or four times a year but these are not visible with the naked eye. The total eclipse only occurs twice a year unless on the rare times when one occurs early january, mid-year and late december.

Total lunar eclipse only occurs during full moon which is when the moon is directly opposite the earth to the sun. The moon's color will alter depending on atmospheric dust but the refracted light, from simultaneous sunrises happening 360 degrees all around the globe, convulging on the moon will usually make it appear red or orange.

This year the first total lunar eclipse is on 3rd of march (not visible from Australia) which will last 1hr14m and then another total eclipse on August 28 (visible from Australia) which will last 1hr31m. The date of said eclipse may depend on location though as some will observe it on the 27-28th due to the time zones.

I used the solar eclipse because it is much easier to explain how it is impossible for it to be a planet that astronomers do not know about yet they still predict it with ease.

[b:cd399bf5e1]Solar eclipses[/b:cd399bf5e1]

The visible total or partial solar eclipse however occurs once every 18 years 10 days and 8 hours. Although there is also a small solar eclipse every 176-177 days however it is not visible due the brightnes of the sun. I wouldn't recommend going out to view the sun to see if you can observe the eclipse. It may be hazardous to your health. Having the proper light filter and being in the correct location on the planet you would be able to see it.

The next visible solar eclipse will be 21 of August 2017 and it will be visible horizontally across the centre of the USA. Greatest eclipse will be viewable from the state below Pensylvania or Ohio. [i:cd399bf5e1]I'm not great with my US states.[/i:cd399bf5e1] :P But it's two states east of Kansas and west of West Virginia. Somewhere around there anyway. Umm... Kentucky or Tennesee... maybe?

The moon being smaller than the earth being the reason that full or partial eclipse of the moon happen more often and are visible simutaneously from more locations around the earth than a solar eclipse. [i:cd399bf5e1]If both were due to Rahu we would see more solar eclipses on account of the moon being further away and larger than the sun.[/i:cd399bf5e1] Logistically it does not add up there either.

The reason for it not occuring every orbit of the earth is that the earth being on a 5% axis off it's orbit around the sun. This is the reason we have four seasons. While the moon orbits along this axis it is also affected by the suns gravity which attempts to pull it into line with the earth's orbit. This causes the moon to wobble which is observable as the moon does not follow the same path across the heavens for exactly 18 years 10 days and 8hrs the same amount of time it takes to return to it's original solar eclipse position. The observable wobble occurs again for another 18 years 10 days and and 8 hrs. Regular as clock work. So during this wobble the path of orbit does not travel directly behind or in front of the earth in relation to the sun causing no interference. If the moon was the same size as the earth we would have equal amount of visible solar and lunar eclipses.

[b:cd399bf5e1]Totally predictable by scientists who have no knowledge of the existence of Rahu is the point I was trying to make however.[/b:cd399bf5e1]

How do they know??[/size:cd399bf5e1]

Must be a homosexual conspiracy!![/size:cd399bf5e1]

[b:cd399bf5e1]Tune in next week for more madness!!![/b:cd399bf5e1]

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Gaudiya ()
Date: January 20, 2007 04:13AM

Hi Everyone,
This is my first post. Be nice to me.

I spoke with Cara for an hour on the phone a few days ago. She knows who I am. I think she will vouch for the fact that I'm not a member of the zombie club. Just for a bit of background info, I knew Siddha and Tusta in the 70's when I was living at the farm in Murawai in NZ. I left them long ago, breaking away from the idea that if you don't do what the Leader says you are a Vaishnava-aparadhi with a one way ticket to hell. I didn't agree with the Leader's ideas about some things, so I left and went to India where I met some Vaishnavas who most of you have probably never heard of. I lived in a temple and took initiation from a very old Guru who never travelled anywhere. He was absorbed in meditation. Don't ask names - cara will vouch that it isn't anyone of the people you guys are angry with. Please nobody mention his name - this is a hostile environment for cult-leaders and it isn't the place to talk about someone who is sweet and beautiful like my Guru. So can we agree to leave him alone, and talk about Siddha and SOI's philosophy? Please?

I'm writing now to clear up a few things that people are discussing.

That is, Rahu, and the anti-science attitudes of many psuedo-Krishna devotees.

First of all
There is a whole lot more to the philosophy of Sri Chaitanya than what the fundamentalists understand.

Sri Chaitanya's philosophy is not like Islam or Protestant fundamentlism, where you are supposed to believe that all the stories from the ancient times are meant to be taken as literal facts. In the Bible, they have their Adam and Eva and the snake in the tree, the Messiah and Satan, and the Crucifiction Myth. Noah and the Ark, and Jonah who was swallowed by a whale and lived inside the whale until he reached land. In Vaishnavism, we have Bhaktivinode and Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati. Bhaktivinode wrote in his book "The Bhagavat Lecture" (which he wrote in English - this is not a translation but Bhaktivinode's own actual words)

In the common-place books of the Hindu religion in which the rajo and
tamo-guna have been described as the ways of religion, we have descriptions of a
local heaven and a local hell; the Heaven as beautiful as anything on earth and
the Hell as ghastly as any picture of evil. Besides this Heaven we have many
more places, where good souls are sent up in the way of promotion! There are
84 divisions of the hell itself, some more dreadful than the one which Milton
has described in his 'Paradise Lost' . These are certainly poetical and were
originally created by the rulers of the country in order to check evil deeds of
the ignorant people, who are not able to understand the conclusions of
philosophy. The religion of the Bh.gavata is free from such a poetry. Indeed, in
some of the chapters we meet with descriptions of these hells and heavens, and
accounts of curious tales, but we have been warned somewhere in the book, not
to accept them as real facts, but as inventions to overawe the wicked and to
improve the simple and the ignorant. The Bhqgavata , certainly tells us a state of
reward and punishment in future according to deeds in our present situation.
All poetic inventions, besides this spiritual fact, have been described as
statements borrowed from other works in the way of preservation of old
traditions in the book which superseded them and put an end to the necessity of
their storage. If the whole stock of Hindu theological works which preceded the
Bhagavata were burnt like the Alexandrian library and the sacred Bhaagavata
preserved as it is, not a part of the philosophy of the Hindus except that of the
atheistic sects, would be lost. The Bhagavata therefore, may be styled both as a
religious work and a compendium of all Hindu history and philosophy.

Read what Bhaktivinode says people. He says Hell as described in the Bhagavatam is just a story that the kings used to frighten the common people so they wouldn't break the laws of the land. In other places Bhaktivinode says that the "Monkeys" in the Ramayana were men who were called monkeys by Valmiki (the Ramayana's author) because fair skinned north indians referred to dark skinned south indians as monkeys. Bhaktivinode also said all the cosmology in the bhagavatam (stories about Rahu, the geography of the Bhagavatam where the earth is flat etc) is really unimportant. What is important in the Bhagavatam is that it tells about how each soul lives forever - in different lifetimes - and that a soul can evolve to the stage where you can see God directly and play with him in a place that you will find is Home Sweet Home.

Sri Varadayatiraja Jeer, a Vaishnava Guru from Tirupati in south india has millions of disciples. Truly, MILLIONS. He was contacted by Tusta or Siddha at one time, and asked to participate in some kind of World Vaishnava Association that was supposed to be a political organization to promote "Vaishnava" religious values. When they asked Varadayatiraja Jeer to join up with them and fight the homosexuals, Varadayatiraja Jeer said "No way, buddy". Varadayatiraja Jeer said fighting with this group of people or that group is not what his religion stands for. He wanted no part of any Vaishnava political group. And he is not the only Vaishnava Guru who thinks like that. Real Vaishnava Gurus (there are some in the world, folks) don't get involved in politics. They are gentle and kind people. I know some, and in their temples they don't have any weird American cult leaders who twist people into a zombie shape.

So then, even if you are convinced (quite rightly) that Siddha is a paper tiger. Don't believe for a minute that all the real Bengal Tigers in the forest are extinct. Some are alive today. Go to Bengal and see for yourself (but don't stay at the ISKCON guest house because nasty things may happen to your kids).

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: cultreporter ()
Date: January 20, 2007 07:38AM

I agree that Gaudiya is a genuine person and knowing who his guru is that he is completely unrelated to the topic of discussion.

I find all the posts on this subject very interesting. I have spent the past couple of years hoping to learn the science of the vedas. It is possible to take classes in the more commercial aspects such as Ayurveada and Jyotish Astrology although many of the available courses have no spiritual aspects. I really thought that these were the sort of things that one would learn when they 'sign up' to be a devotee of Siddha.

Besides all the harm that Siddha does on a personal level and the horrible ways that children are treated in SOI there is also the spiritual harm that he does. Personally this is how I feel most hurt by my experience with him. There are many levels and reasons that Siddha should be exposed. I support all these :wink:

Although ACB is often seen as the centre of Krishna Consciousness this is also due to lack of knowledge. There are many that feel driven to defend him, despite wanting to see Siddha and many other ACB disciples discredited, which is not really logical. It is as if there is a fear that if ACB is discredited that there will be no more Krishna Consciousness. The fact is that there are many reasons that he is related to the behaviour and mentality of Siddha (and other disciples) and it is not really possible to examine Siddha fully without examining his relationship with ACB. ACB is not God and nor is he a religion. If one was to throw away the Scripture credited to ACB they are not throwing away KC, merely his translation of it. All I have to say about this is that Babelfish can translate too and I don't worship it either. Crediting ACB with Scripture is like praising a pencil for writing a book along with falling for the incredible commercial and public relations exercise that was (and still is) ISKCON. To omit him is to tell only part of the story and part of the truth.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: emntk ()
Date: January 20, 2007 09:01AM

I concur with cultreporter that there is no issue with others. I was very specific not to state any other than ACB teaches this and yes he takes all that is stated in the scriptures to be literally true. Siddha's group also teaches the same despite how little Siddha may speak on this issue. Many of his disciples and students believe the Rahu eclipse story as fact and I have witnessed RKd being asked about the distance of the moon with him giving the typical ACB retort that you cannot measure the distance with our imperfect senses. The young man was stating that he had bounced sound waves off the face of the moon. To which RKd suggested one would need to invent sound waves first to know exactly how sound waves work before one could measure the distance.

This is why the moon orbit evidence is much more observably contradicting their teachings. During both the half moon phases the moon observably rises on the horizon at seperate times suggesting it's orbit around the earth. At the half moon we veiw the moon at a right-angle to the sun's rays. This would be clearly impossible if the moon was of greater distance away than the sun.


This image shows the moon which you may see by day and you can clearly see that the moon is between us and the sun as the light is hitting the far side of the moon. This would be impossible if the moon was further away. To emphasise the point the white dot at the bottom of the image is actually Jupiter the largest planet in our solar system and you can see it is further away as we see the full shape of Jupiter reflecting the light of the sun.

Sorry to go on about it but ACB's and Siddhasvarupa's groups truly believe this nonsense to be a fact.

Now that it is available knowledge that it is silly to believe this members who try to influence this thread will be shown up for the ignorance or deviousness or both that they possess.

The [b:bf9e53948f]armageddon[/b:bf9e53948f] predictions that Siddha has made will appear equally ludicris if you read Cara's latest blog entry where she posted a quote of Siddha's stating that he had planned to write many books. Since writting this Siddha has engaged in almost no writing at all. So if he cannot predict his own behaviors then how are we to expect that he can predict the behaviors of others or the planets natural activities. It's laughable.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: jograves ()
Date: January 20, 2007 09:16AM

Hey, guys, this extra wide page stuff is a drag.
Do you think you can return-key the links and limit the picture size so we can have a normal page that you don't have to scroll to read every line?
(It can be tested by previewing the message, I think.)
Other than that, carry on.
Good work.

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: cultreporter ()
Date: January 20, 2007 11:23AM

Oops on the pic, must be the tech junkies dependence on widescreen monitors :wink:

It has occurred to me reading the About the Author of "Who Are You" that the man 'recognised as the world's foremost authority on the science of identity' is sadly lacking in recognition. Siddha has devoted his life to (cough) science and conducted such wonderful experiments as throwing water on a duck to prove that water rolls right off just like the problems of life should and made such enlightening revealations on the existence of the soul as contained in the Who Are You chapter 'Examine A Corpse' (erm, I think I'll take your word on this) to furthering the research that homosexuality is unnatural because during intercourse the partners don't look into each others eyes :?

I mean he ought to have some sort of award right? I know that everyone here wants to see Siddha recognised for his decades of dedication to the science of identity. I propose that we join together in the spirit of cooperation and the ardent desire to see the man gets what he deserves in lobbying for Siddha to win an Ig-Nobel prize.


The Ig Nobel Prizes honor achievements that first make people laugh, and then make them think. The prizes are intended to celebrate the unusual, honor the imaginative -- and spur people's interest in science, medicine, and technology.

[b:1fde505c6e]L.Ron has one![/color:1fde505c6e][/b:1fde505c6e]


1994 Prize for Literature went to L. Ron Hubbard, ardent author of science fiction and founding father of Scientology, for his crackling Good Book, "Dianetics," which is highly profitable to mankind or to a portion thereof.


I've checked out their website and can't see any reason for him not to be nominated. It is highly competitive but dammit I am sure that I can put together an impressive application. Give the man what he deserves!


We receive well more than 5000 new nominations every year; these are added to the (enormous) pool of nominees from previous years. The ten new winners are selected by the The Ig Nobel Board of Governors. The Board is composed of scientists (including several Nobel Laureates), science writers, athletes, public officials, and other individuals of greater or lesser eminence. By tradition, for balance, on the final day of deliberations a random passerby is invited help make the decision.
The Board sifts through the nominations, narrowing the list to a group of finalists. The Board then investigates whether each of the finalists (a) exists, and (b) has actually done what the nomination claims.
As stated above, the Igs are intended to celebrate the unusual, honor the imaginative, and spur people's interest in science.The Ig Nobel Board of Governors tries very, very, very hard to make sure that the Igs will not accidentally (or otherwise) damage the career or prospects of any winner. In cases where it seems likely or possible that this unusual honor might cause harm to a nominee, the Board of Governors simply awards the Prize to some other nominee.
The winners are invited to travel, at their own expense, to the gala awards ceremony at Harvard University. In recent years, half of more of the winners have participated in the ceremonies.


The awards are sometimes veiled criticism — as in the two awards given for homeopathy research, prizes in "science education" to Kansas and Colorado state boards of education for their stance regarding the teaching of evolution — or the prize awarded to Social Text after the Sokal Affair; but most often draw attention to scientific articles that have some funny or unexpected aspect. Examples range from the discovery that the presence of humans tends to sexually arouse ostriches, to the statement that black holes fulfill all the technical requirements to be the location of Hell, to research on the "five-second rule," a tongue-in-cheek belief that food dropped on the floor won't become contaminated if it is picked up within five seconds.


[b:1fde505c6e]Please consider giving your support to the campaign for Chris Butler to win an Ig-Nobel prize[/b:1fde505c6e][/color:1fde505c6e]

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: zelig ()
Date: January 20, 2007 12:14PM

[b:1536adc975]contact Rick Ross to delete the Double Wide Moon
so the rest of the thread is not double wide too. Only he can edit now. Use the preview! :D [/b:1536adc975]

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Gaudiya ()
Date: January 20, 2007 01:02PM

The Killing of Putana

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada

(the following essay was printed in the January l932 edition of The Harmonist, or Sree Sajjanatoshani)

The first act of New-born Infant Krishna recorded by the Bhagabatam is the slaying of the demoness Putana.

The demoness Putana was deputed by King Kansa to kill all the new-born babies of the realm of Braja, where he was informed by the Divine sage Narada that his would-be slayer had been recently born.

Meanwhile Shree Krishna had been born in Kansa's prison and had been conveyed by His father Vasudeb to the house of His foster parents Nanda and Yasoda in Braja during the night of His advent. The guards of the prison had failed to detect the movements of Vasudeb who had returned to his prison with the new-born daughter of Yasoda with whom he had exchanged His own Boy without the knowledge of Yasoda herself. Vasudeb had carried Krishna in his arms across the flooded Yamuna lashed into fury by the tempestuous weather of that moonless night. He had waded on foot the deep waters which had been turned into yawning whirlpools by the fury of the tempest. The iron chains, bolts and locks of the barred gates of the prison had opened of their own accord on the approach of Vasudeb carrying Krishna to the home of His foster parents. The daughter of Yasoda was thereupon duly reported to King Kansa as the new-born dreaded eighth issue of Devaki. The King rushed into the prison cell on receipt of the tidings for which he had been waiting through long years of sleepless nights. He was at first willing to spare the life of the baby as the prophecy was to the effect that he would be killed by a male child, eighth issue of Vasudeb and Devaki. But he thought of being relieved of all possible doubts on the point by putting to death the new-born girl. As, however, King Kansa was on the point of dashing the baby on the block, she escaped from the grip of the King and disclosing herself as the Deluding Energy of Godhead as she remained visible for a short time in mid-sky, assured the King of the certainty of the birth of his future slayer but dissuading him from the fruitless attempt of avoiding his fate by the cruel murder of innocent infants. Saying this, Mahamaya disappeared from the view of the astounded King. Kansa was subsequently informed by the sage Narada that his future slayer must have been born among the denizens of Braja and that if he was mindful of his safety he should lose no time in taking drastic measures for nipping the danger in the bud. This advice was relished by the blood-thirsty coward and he had accordingly deputed the demoness Putana to kill by an unsuspected process all the new-born infants of the surrounding country.

The demoness Putana accordingly made her appearance in Braja and presented herself in the home of Yasoda during the absence of Nanda who was then in Mathura to pay the tribute due from him to King Kansa. The demoness had assumed the form of a most beautiful matron with a most benignant aspect as she approached the couch where Infant Krishna had been put to sleep by Yasoda. Yasoda had noticed the unknown female as she entered the house, but did not suspect any foul play. She accordingly watched the new-comer without any anxiety as she made her way to the couch of the Baby, took Him up in her arms and offered her breast to the Infant to give Him suck. But the nipples of Putana's breast had been tipped with the deadliest poison.

The Infant Krishna was aware of the intention of the demoness and took hold of the breast of the monster with His supple Arms. The grip of the Infant was so terribly severe that it was enough to drive the demoness to despair of her life as she was convulsed by the mortal agony of the pressure of Krishna's little Hands. The Infant then applied His lips to the breast of Putana and sucked away her life in an instant. The terrible monster bellowing with pain was compelled to disclose her own huge, loathsome demoniac form as she fell lifeless on the ground covering with her hideous carcass a long distance with Infant Krishna still clinging to her poisoned nipples.

Accordingly the first act of the milkmaids, who with Yasoda rushed to the spot, was to snatch the Infant Krishna from the breast of the terrible demoness. Then they all marveled how the Baby could escape unhurt from the clutches of the demoness. They attributed the safety of the Infant to the mercy of the gods who are specially kind to the helpless. The affrighted milkmaids invoked the help of all the gods and goddesses for their continued protection of the Infant.

Meanwhile, Putana was saved by her service to Krishna for having offered Him the suck of her poisoned breast. The author of the Bhagavabatam is careful to mention that the good fortune of the demoness equaled that of Yasoda in as much as her breast had been sucked by Krishna. Putana, therefore, attained to the eternal status of the foster-mothers of the Supreme Lord in the Realm of the Absolute.

The above narrative of the Bhagabatam embodies a most important moral for the seekers of the Absolute. But before offering <strong>the interpretations of the texts favored by the former Acharyas</strong>, I would like to draw the attention of the reader to certain possible misconceptions regarding the nature of the interpretations about to be offered.

There is a class of persons who insist on the texts being taken in their literal worldly sense. Much ingenuity has been expended for extracting meanings that may be satisfactory to the empiric judgment of the interpreters working by this literal method. Their argument is not unintelligible. As the revealed literatures are to be regarded as containing the information of the Absolute the language should be regarded as part and parcel of the meaning of the text. From this conclusion the literal interpreters jump to the wrong inference that it should be possible for the conditioned soul to ascertain the real meaning of the scriptures by sticking to the lexicographical sense of their actual wordings. This latter part of the argument is inapplicable to the subject which is transcendental. The words possess a double meaning. The lexicographical meaning refers to the entities of this world and is, therefore, inapplicable to the case. The esoteric meaning is not accessible to the gross senses and mind of the conditioned soul. This is the great and insuperable difficulty. <strong>The literal interpreters who follow the lexicographical meaning of the words err grievously in overlooking this all-important consideration.</strong>

The transcendental meaning of the words cannot be conveyed to the senses of the conditioned soul as long as he does not agree to follow the method of submissive listening to the transcendental sound appearing on the lips of the pure devotee. There is a definite line of succession of the bonafide teachers of the truth. The bonafide teacher should be available sooner or later to the real seeker of the Truth. The bonafide Acharya is not recognizable by the hypocrites and atheists who do not really want to serve Godhead. So long therefore, as the bonafide teacher does not manifest his appearance to the pure cognitive essence of the seeker of the Absolute Truth it is necessary for the candidate for spiritual enlightenment to concentrate on self-examination to be able to avoid harboring any lurking traces of insincerity. The words of the sadhu are also available, by his causeless mercy, for bearing the efforts of such candidates, for finding out their own insincerity.

It is by overlooking or deliberately neglecting to undergo this preliminary training for obtaining access to the transcendental meaning of all words that the literal interpretationists who follow the ordinary lexicographical meaning of the words of the scriptures fail to understand the necessity of never deviating from the interpretations offered by the self-realized souls to whom the transcendental meaning of the words is available. Those empiricists who, while following the lexicographical and syntactical method of the literal interpretationists, do not scruple to read their own meanings into the texts under the impression that the scriptures and the products of the human brain liable to every form of error, and therefore, fit to be corrected by the equally erring caprices of other hypothetical thinkers on the ground of allegations of error that cannot be proved, are disposed to think that the interpretations offered by the Acharya are not scrupulousy faithful to the texts and offer allegorical explanations for supporting their own sectarian views.

<strong>These possible misunderstandings are stated to invite the attention of the reader to their bearing on the following interpretation of the narrative of Putana based on the exposition of the former Acharyas heard from the lips of the bonafide teacher of the Absolute.</strong> The interpretation is not offered as a literal lexicographical explanation nor as an allegory concocted in the light of empiric knowledge of the past history of the race and may accordingly be accepted as such.

Shree Krishna manifests His eternal birth in the pure cognitive essence of the serving soul who is located above all mundane limitations. King Kansa is the typical aggressive empiricist. He is ever on the look-out for the Appearance of the Truth for the purpose of suppressing Him before He has time to grow up. This is no exaggeration of the real connotation of the consistent empiric position. The materialist has a natural repugnance for the transcendental. He is disposed to think that faith in the incomprehensible is the parent of dogmatism and hypocrisy under the guise of religion. He is also equally under the delusion that there is and can be no really dividing line between the material and the spiritual. He is strengthened in his delusion by the interpretation of the scriptures by persons who are like-minded with himself. This included all the lexicographical interpreters. The lexicographical interpretation is upheld by Kansa as the real scientific explanation of the Scriptures and one that is perfectly in keeping with his dread of and aversion of the transcendental. These lexicographical interpreters are employed by Kansa in putting down the first suspected appearance of any genuine faith in the transcendental.

King Kansa knows very well that if the faith in the transcendental is once allowed to grow it is sure to upset all his empiric prospects. There is historical ground for such misgiving. Accordingly, if the empiric domination is to be preserved intact, it would be necessary not to lose a moment to put down the transcendental heresy the instant it threatens to make its appearance in right earnest. King Kansa acting on this traditional fear is never slow to take the scientific precaution of debuting empiric teachers of the scriptures backed by the resources of Dictionary and Grammar and all empiric subtleties to put down, by the show of spacious arguments based on hypothetical principles, the true interpretation of the eternal religion revealed by the scriptures. Kansa is strongly persuaded that the faith in the transcendental can be effectively put down by empiricism if prompt and decisive measures are adopted at the very outset. He attributes the failures of atheism in the past to the neglect of the adoption of such measures before the theistic fallacy has time to spread among the fanatical masses.

But Kansa is found to count without his host. When Krishna is born He is found to be able to upset all sinister designs against those who are apprised by Himself of His Advent. The apparently causeless faith displayed by persons irrespective of age, sex and condition may confound all rabid empiricists who are on principle averse to the Absolute Truth Whose Appearance is utterly incompatible with the domination of empiricism. But no adverse efforts of the empiricists, whose rule seems till then to be perfectly well-established over the minds of the deluded souls of this world, can dissuade any person from exclusively following the Truth when He actually manifests His birth in the pure cognitive essence of His soul.

Putana is the slayer of all infants. The baby, when he or she comes out of the mother's womb, falls at once into the clutches of the pseudo-teachers of religion. These teachers are successful in forestalling the attempts of the good preceptor whose help is never sought by the atheists of this world at the baptisms of their children. This is ensured by the arrangements of all the established churches of the world. They have been successful only in supplying watchful Putanas for effecting the spiritual destruction of persons from the moment of their birth with the co-operation of their worldly parents. No human contrivance can prevent these Putanas from obtaining possession of the pulpits. This is due to the general prevalence of atheistic disposition in the people of this world. The church that has the best chance of survival in this damned world is that of atheism under the convenient guise of theism. The churches have always proved the staunchest upholders of the grossest forms of worldliness from which even the worst of non-ecclesiastical criminals are found to recoil.

It is not from any deliberate opposition to the ordained clergy that these observations are made. The original purpose of the established churches of the world may not be always objectionable. But no stable religious arrangement for instructing the masses has yet been successful. The supreme Lord Shree Krishna Chaitanya in pursuance of the teaching of the scriptures enjoins all absence of conventionalism for the teachers of the eternal religion. It does not follow that the mechanical adoption of the unconventional life by any person will make him a fit teacher of religion. Regulation is necessary for controlling the inherent worldliness of conditioned souls. But no mechanical regulation has any value even for such a purpose. The bonafide teacher of the religion is neither any product or the favorer of any mechanical system. In his hands no system has likewise the chance of degenerating into a lifeless arrangement. The mere pursuit of fixed doctrines and fixed liturgies cannot hold a person to the true spirit of doctrine or liturgy.

<strong>The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. </strong>The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dykes and the dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bonafide spiritual teacher. The people of this world understand preventive systems; they can have no idea of the unprevented positive eternal life. Neither can there be any earthly contrivance for the permanent preservation of the life eternal on this mundane plane on the popular scale.

Those are, therefore, greatly mistaken who are disposed to look forward to the amelioration of the worldly state in any worldly sense from the worldly success of any really spiritual movement. It is these worldly expectants who become the patrons of the mischievous race of the pseudo-teachers of religion, the Putanas, whose congenial function is to stifle the theistic disposition at the very moment of its suspected appearance. But the real theistic disposition can never be stifled even by the efforts of those Putanas. The Putanas have power only over the atheists. It is a thankless but salutary task which they perform for the benefit of their willing victims.

But as soon as the theistic disposition proper makes is appearance in the pure cognitive essence of the awakened soul, the Putanas are decisively silenced at the very earliest stage of their encounter with New-born Krishna. The would-be slayer is herself slain. This is the reward of the negative services that the Putanas unwittingly render to the cause of theism by strangling all hypocritical demonstrations against their own hypocrisy. But Putana does not at all like to receive her reward in the only form which involves the total destruction of her wrong personality. King Kansa also does not like to lose the service of the most trusted of his agents. The effective silencing of the whole race of the pseudo-teachers of religion is the very first clear indication of the Appearance of the Absolute on the mundane plane. <strong>The bonafide teacher of the Absolute heralds the Advent of Krishna by his uncompromising campaign against the pseudo-teachers of religion.</strong>

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Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by: Gaudiya ()
Date: January 20, 2007 01:13PM

In the article I just posted was written by Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur in 1932.

Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur is the Guru of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who started the Hare Krishna Movement in New York in 1964.

Please friends, notice in this article that Bhaktisiddhanta criticizes people who try to understand the ancient scriptures from a "literal" perspective. He writes, "There is a class of persons who insist on the texts being taken in their literal worldly sense." Then he goes on to say that trying to undstand the ancient myths as literal facts is a mistake.

Of course this article is difficult to read for us since it was written in the 1930's in the style of English we call Anglo-Indian English. But if you take the time to read this article carefully you will very clearly see that Bhaktisiddhanta felt we should look for mystical or transcendental knowledge in the scriptures, instead of thinking that scriptures can be understood with a simple dictionary translation or with a lexicon.

Also note Bhaktisiddhanta's statement, "The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement.".

Bhaktisiddhanta in fact wrote another famous article in English in which he trashed the idea that organized religion and "groups" are necessary for spreading real spirituality. As in the article above, Bhaktisiddhanta was of the opinion that when a mystical tradition become a "church" it dies.

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