This is the philosophy of Wayne, behind his shortcomings in his pursuit of bhakti yoga:
"In case I don't make it back to the godhead due to my imperfection, I will be reborn and start again where I left of."

That's the pervading philosophy of the majority in the fold, and Siddha don't care if they are pure or not. By the way, a pure devotee is like a fortune teller — it's a make believe, it isn't real, there is no such thing. All the hardships in the pursuit of perfection is all drama. No one is interested in that, to try is good enough. In fact, only one is pure and that's not gonna change. This sadhana bhakti process is all make believe, just a fantasy of having a culture you can belong to, no one is expected to really escape the wheel of birth and death. That's the bottom line ladies and gentlemen, If you speak to anyone of them they are satisfied with the status quo — it is okay to be imperfect and be reborn and continue with the little steps you gained in your life. If you go moral on them, they would think you're corny. That's how Siddha manipulated his followers. He will rant about the flaws and stupidity of his disciples, but in the end it's fine. That's what he meant with "just chant" slogan. That's all you have to do. That's higher than moralistic regulations most religions do. And they really think they have cheated karma with "just chant" illusion. A good excuse to be arbitrary; you can be an asshole as much as you want, take advantage of the karmis and cheat for Krsna. As long you chant, you will continue from where you left off.

Give me a break Wayne, who is cheating whom? Siddha lied and you and the people like you will bear the consequences of your actions. The younger generation will have access to the information here and they will rebel against their soooo stupid parents and then it's payback time.

About Allan Yoza, need I say more? This bottom-line philosophy goes across the board, much like Iskcon's "the end justifies the means" thinking. They don't give a hoot, or feel shame in engaging in shady business deals, politics and even to the point of hurt and the detriment of other people outside the group. Behind the facade of vegetarianism, simple living, chanting mantras, Vedic names, religious rites and worship of deities exotic to the outside world, they are mean people. In fact the only thing that separates them from the the radical muslims is the ratio, but in essence the attitudes are the same. The Haribols are just more conscious about their outside image, but deep inside will do anything if commanded by Chris Butler. For people like Yoza who's been practicing the faith for more than 20 years and at the same time exploit the desperate and the needy mirrors the mindset of an insidious and sinister religious cult. Like I said all this rantings by Chris Butler about the flaws and stupidity of his flock serves two purpose: One, is to make the path to self-realization an impossible task and simply embrace the easier way-out, "just-chant" philosophy, continue with the veneer, and achieve realization lifetime after lifetime (talking of eons here); secondly, to elevate or over-emphasize Chris Butler's position as unsurpassable, therefore remain the sole rightful representative of god Krishna on Earth. This is the bottom-line or the core psychology of the Haribol cult. Each one is guilt-ridden of their imperfection at the same time not worry about it as long as they continue with the practice and please the spiritual master, unquestionably. As long as you embrace this as your main duty in life, the rest is secondary.

Nice try Chris. What about the younger generation? Can you stop them from accessing the information here and start questioning the whole thing? The younger ones are not as stupid as their 70s parents, whose main hangup was religion. Pay back time Chris, even your own adapted children may not be as gullible as you thought they were.

Quote
daharmabum
"In fact the only thing that separates them from the the radical muslims is the ratio, but in essence the attitudes are the same."

Hey dharma - when I read that I thought, "Sad, but true". I came across a few individuals (perhaps more than a few) who displayed a definite fanaticism and I always thought that they were the types that could be "suicide bombers".

Kind of scary when you think of the "I was just following orders" mentality displayed by many perpetrators of war crimes.

To the cult members reading this: Where is the peace? Where is the love? Where is the charity?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean ratio, I meant proportion, wrong choice of word. Meaning, the radical muslims want to do it BIG, i.e., blowing up buildings, kidnapping or killing people, etc., but whether it's small or big, the attitude is the same — to please the god and to propagate the faith with complete disregard of other people's wellbeing and the expectation for a reward in the afterlife. Other people means people outside their faith, they are fond of calling karmis (sinners for the Christians). In fact they may not be aware of this because small is less hurtful and less dramatic. Exploiting for Krsna is like white lies. Doing this as a practice, I'd say you might as well do it big because they are the same. Hurt is hurt, small or big. In fact small is more insidious therefore more difficult to monitor. For Chris Butler to allow or even encourage his followers (his senior disciples) to cheat and exploit other people through politics, shady businesses and misleading representations of their religion (yoga, massage, new age, health clubs, etc.) just shows how manipulative, clever and slimy Chris Butler is, even to his own flock. Guess who ends up laughing to the bank? Remember, the charming Siddha started up with just a hut, a kerosene lamp and a few books.

Hey, Dharmabum and Hoax108, thanks for posting this interesting dialogue. What you say makes total sense. The shady politics for sure is a sign that this guy is bad news...

... Wow, I just got a new laptop as the old Windows98 was getting a bit too slow... Now I can scroll through the 300 pages on this forum with ease! Many thanks to all the people who have posted here in the past, Dharmabum, Hoax, Vera, Dassi, Quotesman, and all the rest ... Your time and service may have helped many people who were once involved with this cult. Thanks also to Rick Ross for allowing this forum to continue.

...well shamefaced....(regrettably "fell off the planet" temporarily with some engrossing family business)...

I too, would like to offer my "Belated (sort of) Birthday" greetings, congratulating those who post on this site, for reaching their 300th page...

(and beyond!)....300 pages....and 300 QUALITY pages of insight and knowledgeable criticism....well done, all of you!

THE TOTALITARIAN TIP-TOE

by J. Giggling

To make spiritual progress, when all else fails,
Just chew on guru's transcendental toe nails.

And if you fear it may not taste so nice,
Grate it up and then mix with spiced rice.

If you find this practice to be rather odd,
Just remember this: it's very pleasing to God!

And if you think all this is totally absurd,
Be thankful it's not his maha transcendental turd!


TUCO SPEAKS: The word politics can be divided into two: POLY means many ... TICS means blood sucking creatures.

Very funny Googs. I really miss your classics. You should come up with your bests of, after 300 pages. I wonder where Quotesman is now? His Chis Butler's infamous quotes is another all-time classic.

Yeh, I should put together a hard copy of selected prose and poetry and name it: 'SoI KILLS ~ But At Least You'll Die Laughing' LOL! Maybe when I'm sitting in the court of Yamaraj and the court prosecutor is reading these poems out aloud, Yamaraj himself and all the Yamadutas will be rolling around on the floor with laughter! ... And then maybe I can slowly tip-toe outta there and be a free soul ... hehehehehehe, now that's the kind of reality I want to tune into!

As for Quotesman, he's probably off-line now and out of cyberspace ... but I know he is having a wonderful life and has created a marvelous reality for himself, after having spent a few rough years within the cult into the 1990's (many of us such as Z and myself had pretty much drifted out of the cult in the 1980's)... His quotes from that time period really show how Mr. Love-God-guru's behavioral patterns had become even more demanding, mean, obnoxious and downright cruel. This is the period of the heavy fines, bags over heads, anti-gay crusade, mansion homes, neo-con Christian right wing politics, and toe nails. Also let us not forget Rama, who also filled out some crucial information of that time period ... if you're still out there, Rama, you are a good human being and I certainly hope your family can recognize that.

Again, I would like to thank so many who have posted here ... your insightful comments have been an inspiration to myself and others: Terrenaut, Gudansloshed, Krishnacaitanya, and so many others ... and who was that fellow who posted the information about Siddha's transcendental skiing holiday, where his servants were not allowed to smile or laugh ~ I still get a kick out of that ~ it's straight out of Monty Python's Life of Brian movie!

Quote: "and who was that fellow who posted the information about Siddha's transcendental skiing holiday,
where his servants were not allowed to smile or laugh ~ I still get a kick out of that ~ it's straight
out of Monty Python's Life of Brian movie!"

I think I missed that one, can you recap for me?