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Almost any ordeal creates a bonding experience.

This got me thinking...

For the majority of human history, we lived as hunter-gatherers in small tribes and clans. Every day the group faced one ordeal or another - finding food and water, staying warm - and other ordeals such as fights with neighbouring groups, the deaths of members of the group and so on were frequent. Whatever group you were in, you were very very tight with them, and you had to be in order to survive.

So I think one could make the case that human beings are hard-wired/pre-programmed/choose your metaphor to have a VERY strong need to belong to a group.

These days, society is more fragmented, more people live alone than ever before, marriages and relationships break up, etc etc etc but we still have our same hunter-gatherer minds and bodies (evolution doesn't work that fast), so we still have our deep urge to belong. Which creates an excellent context in which cults can thrive. We know cults definitely use an ordeal to create a bonding experience, and there are only so many other (one hopes healthier) bonding ordeals to experience these days.

Food for thought anyway.

I agree with margarets totally. Humans have the propensity to want to belong to any group. I would even add, it maybe genetic. There's nothing wrong with that if it's that natural. But it always helps to be aware both of this propensity and the group we want to belong to.

Now that societies are becoming global, the need to see things as in-groups and out-groups is fast becoming irrelevant. We don't want to wage war against each other anymore as during the primitive time, which was necessary. The problem with cults like SoI unfortunately, is their overemphasis on those old time values like looking at the world outside the group with much suspicion and even hostility. They are ruthless to things they deem offensive and even brutal to those that are personally against the master. Another dangerous value is their uncompromising regard for Chris Butler who they still hold up to now as a pure devotee and is incapable of doing wrong. Their unquestioning devotion is based on ancient Vedic practice of total submission of student to master, which is not only out of context and archaic but is very dangerous; exactly what makes a religious cult as something individuals should not choose to belong to.

In the ancient times there were very limited books and other sources of knowledge, thus putting a teacher as a sole-source maybe warranted and necessary. Just like in most progressive schools today, the teachers become mere facilitators of knowledge. The sources of knowledge are everywhere now and it's highly possible for students to know more than the teachers do. So the ancient practice of complete surrender is broken down. Plus, the quality of teachers in ancient times where themselves were put into the same rigid process of learning and discipline is comparatively remarkable compared to the western lifestyle that we have. That just doesn't work. Join a group that does not espouse the above old time values — they are old mythology. Humanity has passed that hunter-gatherer mindset that although we still carry the propensity to belong, the process of learning and discipline is completely transformed to a more outward looking and broader based embrace of other ideas other than that of the in-group's. Chris Butler is obviously one of those exploitive, manipulative and insidious leftovers from the 70s. Learning religions is overrated anyway. Learn music and science for inner peace, and arts if you want a more meaningful life. Spirituality is simply your relationship with your fellow human beings. Stop being the battered wife, move on.

Thank you, Vera City, for the information. It was good reading it and seeing so much of myself there.
I was really solidly into the Krishna, ACB, CB thing, thinking that there were authorities that could show me the 'truth' or 'god'.
How totally wrong I was! It felt secure. It felt great to get a big smile from CB. Even to hear him tell a joke was thrilling back then. I was hanging onto his toe nails, I suppose.
Now I spit on him and his kind. Nice to be offensive to such a pure devotee. I will not take their bullying ways ever again. Of course, they steer clear of any person who can really stand up to them. And they have an excuse for everything.
Can't help but think you were involved somehow with Hare Krishna. But it does not matter now.
It is just good to hear some good 'old fashioned' common sense from the posters here.
First I got the trip from ISKCON then from butler's group.
I was so messed up that it took me 20 years or more to totally get over it.

To krishnacaitanya

It's nice to hear from exers like you. You're very brave. hope there are more people like you. It's very relieving to let go, but at the same time a struggle. It's like losing your identity. But like all ex cult members are, time heals fast. It's all psychological. That's what religious cults are good at — giving members false identities that seem difficult to give up, but is not really that tough. Letting go is a good exercise by itself; I guess what growing up is all about, and when you look back, it would feel good in the end. You will have something valuable to share and help others in the same situation we were at. That by itself is very rewarding. I wish you great time ahead. I hope by rejecting an organized belief, you also rejected what comes with it.

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krishnacaitanya
Thank you, Vera City, for the information. It was good reading it and seeing so much of myself there.
I was really solidly into the Krishna, ACB, CB thing, thinking that there were authorities that could show me the 'truth' or 'god'.
How totally wrong I was! It felt secure. It felt great to get a big smile from CB. Even to hear him tell a joke was thrilling back then. I was hanging onto his toe nails, I suppose.
...I will not take their bullying ways ever again. Of course, they steer clear of any person who can really stand up to them. And they have an excuse for everything.
...
I was so messed up that it took me 20 years or more to totally get over it.

KC
It saddens me to hear how many years these people stole from your life. We are hoping the testamonies and resources here will help others cycle out of there more quickly or not join at all. You are right, they do have an excuse for everything. The main thing you can address is how the "yamadutas" did not eat you alive and that life is significantly better out of the cult, in spite of life's ups and downs. I have yet to meet an exer who regrets leaving. It is also helpful to share strategies you used to overcome the programming and free your soul and mind.

The Butlerites are still going strong. An exer just told me this week that they were recently recruiting at a Sacramento Art fair, chanting on guitars and selling his books. There must be a Butler push after all these websites with old quotes started to flood the internet a couple of years ago (after years of quiet isolationism).

No one likes to do the door to door or public shit. This would only happen on Butler's orders. I'm sure the story went something like this: "The househoders and their kids are getting too happy and fat with their prosperous businesses. They are not serving their spiritual master. They are all falling into maya. Going door to door and selling books is pleasing to g0d and guru." Of course Butler would add curses, explitives, and attack key people. He'd also extort more money from his followers. He may have threatened to "leave the planet" to strike terror in their hearts or claim that they are spiritually dead to motivate them. And they do believe it and they do jump....for that smile....for validation of their (false) identity.

It is interesting that Butler wrote a book called "False Identity equals Bad Economy". The paradox is that if you join his "there is no group to join" group, that you take on a false identity and lose all you money!



Found this link that documents Butler's body of work -- copyright registrations. [www.faqs.org]

This link within a link documents proof that Butler owns all the copyrights to Golden Moon, Wai Lana (aka Zhang Hui Lan), and Kama Kula.
So anything produced by the "Ninjai Gang" or Wai Lana is all Butler controlled. Lots of interest in multi-media productions. After Butler saw Star Wars, he has wanted to get into the movie business. He stated in 1977, "Now they have the technology (special effects) to do the Srimad Bhagavatam." Of course he has only used the media to promote his own Empire.
[www.faqs.org]

Chris Butler was born in 1948. Some titles refer to a musician named Christopher Butler born 1949. They are not the same person.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2010 12:51AM by Vera City.

Given the elusiveness and secrecy that enshrouds Chris Butler and his inner circle and since it is a well known fact that the Gabbards are his best success story to date, if you want to make a difference and if you live in Hawaii, vote against Mike Gabbard in the upcoming primary and vote against his daughter Tulsi who is also running again for political office. It is sickening to think that Chris Butler has access to political power through this family. So to all of you in this forum...spread the word and exercise your right to vote by casting it for the opposition.

Tuco says: For a mix of religion and politics and mindless propaganda...
Vote for Jagged Guru ~ Siddhaswarupananda!

I am here to expose the Cult even further and to shed light on the best way to expose the CB while appealing to any members that might read this. Remember if you post here and using your anger and betrayal as the catalyst then you end up looking like the EVIL PEOPLE that they say you are alot times trolls bait you in to arguements to for this reason alone. However, if you offer a level of kindness and unconditional love then they they are more likely to be receptive to the other side of the story. We are not telling them that their beliefs are horrible but asking them to use more than one source for their info. I feel your anger, but leave Global politics, personal quarls and conspiracy theory's out of it! TO ANY MEMBER READING THIS....you are loved by so many on the outside and what you are being told about us is not true. There is a network setup that can provide you with whatever you need to get back on your feet. Please dont stop believing what you believe just consider info from sources other than Chris Butler. If you consider these facts, then still want to follow CB you are free to do so.

I am free to do so? Thanks so much!
Yes, we are all free to believe whatever far out myth is presented to us.
The real issue is to figure out why we bother to believe in such drivel.
Love
KC

krishnacaitanya:

Try to be a little less nasty please.