Good one Googs. But Cara would never be bothered to go through all your posts like that. She doesn't have the patience for information that is not relevant to anything. That's my perfectionism playing up. I go overboard sometimes. Nice try. In your defense though you've probably run out of unique things to say about the cult after three years on here right?

Since you like humor so much googling:

Do you remember sending those emails to Cara? She happened to show them to me and it definitely portrays you in a rather different light than you have presented here.

That is a cracker, hey?

BTW How did you get that Feb 2006 cd lecture/reading of ACB reports in, as fate would have it, late 2006? We can't get a hold of one. They are not really sold at our local store here. Usually they are only given out on very good faith by SoI members. Perhaps you just found it in a second hand store. Yeah that would make sense.

Once again, SoI Kills and JustGoogling.

Please stop personally attacking each other on this thread.

Calm down.

The focus is Chris Butler.

I want to add a humorous note from Willis Butler’s book, “Barbara: Memoir of a Love Affair”. To set this up you need to know about Chris’s great uncle, Monroe Elmon Dodd. From the book; “Mother’s elder brother, Monroe Elmon, starred in her childhood by crossing all his fingers over each other, waving his hands in the air and striding about the yard weeping and praying in a loud voice, after which performance he would open his fingers explosively and cry “shoo geese!” Elmon had ended up at Shreveport and at the time of our residence there he was head of the huge Southern Baptist Convention (Church), the most exalted position in the country’s largest Protestant denomination. He was a pompous hypocrite who sermonized against drinking and during Prohibition kept a well-stocked wine cellar and used the best Bourbon for his Christmas eggnogs…Elmon’s literary fame became a popular family joke. He took a round-the-world trip, interviewing Mahatma Ghandi among others. His book was called “Girdling the Globe for God”, by Dodd. We of course at once switched that to “Girdling the Globe for Dodd, by God!” When my grandmother, “Mamma Dodd”, died…I was struck…by the contrast between Dr. Dodd’s loud, lugubrious and Scriptural ranting and the solemn and understated grief of my mother and father, who loved her deeply."

Later in the book Willis refers to Elmon again, this time in relation to Chris’s mother’s funeral ; “A grotesque fantasy crossed my mind. What if my uncle Elmon, my mother’s sanctimonious brother, the Chief Guru of the Southern Baptist Convention, had risen from the grave to join us? How I would have loved to watch the interaction between him and Chris!”

Wonder if Guru-psychosis is a hereditary condition! Either that or reincarnation exists! LOL!

The following memos were sent to initiated followers in the 1980’s mostly dealing with the care and feeding of a guru. There was once a 1” manual (It’s probably a 10 volume tome these days) with details about how to fold Sir Guru’s clothing, do his laundry, how to cook and serve (genuflecting - show excessive respect: to show undeserved or unnecessarily deferential respect for somebody), recipes, driving instructions, all sorts of protocols that would make the Queen’s butler stressed, lists of supplies for every residence, and traveling directives. I think the packet came with the letters asking for people to apply for the job of Personal Affairs. Unfortunately that packet is missing.

The reason CB had such a hard time getting anyone to volunteer for the job is that everyone in Hawaii knew what it would entail. You had to have any bit of self-esteem and critical thinking skills you might have left between your legs – no, castrated, and be willing to be kicked like a dog. You might get paid, but subsistence wages only. You would be on call 24/7 and need to tolerate CB’s rages and his deceptively sweet wife’s demands. If you had a family, they had better be independent financially and you would rarely see them. Krishna Katha das (now Senator Gabbard) finally accepted the job, only to be fired shortly thereafter.

Anyway. On Mike Gabbard. It is interesting this theory of everyone having different experiences.

Back when Initiate joined, two days later Devadasi joined and the two engaged in a back and forth confirming each others posts. Devadasi was in the cult the same period as Initiate (73-mid 80s) so the two had a lot in common.
[forum.culteducation.com]

After Initiate was banned Devadasi asked the question when discussing Mike Gabbard:

"Anyone have pictures of Mike when he was the head-master at Chris's boys school in Samoa? Please get them on the internet!!!"
[forum.culteducation.com]

The school in Samoa. So according to you Vera this would be accurate as this was her experience. Her experience however contradicts yours and Zelig's experience. Googling didn't bother to mention that Mike Gabbard ran the school in Hawaii and strangely fell quiet when the members of this thread were asked about the cult later.

There was a clear attempt to protect Gabbard's image however and once again you have arrived offering intimate knowledge of the school in Hawaii. Of course the only other person on this thread to offer detailed information on the School was coincidentally Zelig. (Side note: Once again Rick note the similarities in stories and writing style, if you indeed care to that is)

"CB did not even know what KKd (aka Senator Mike Gabbard) was teaching there, but still considered it his school. CB offered no financial assistance and in this talk he is offering his services as an advisor. This was his style at the time -- just wanted everyone else to run things. No micro-manangement. Also, when the school first started, the book "Who Am I" had not been published yet, so this and yoga asanas were added to the curriculum (They were not part of the original curriculum). CB had no knowledge of this as evidenced by his questions, and yet, he felt it was HIS school. KKd was aiming to please his guru, but had a lot of latitude in designing the school. The Bhagavad Gita As It Is was originally part of the curriculum, but probably dropped by some comment/ criticism by CB. (Some directive to only from HIS books). The original school had a fundamentals curriculum ("the three R's" Reading, Riting, Rithmatic =) with some basic philosophy; modeled after a Catholic School. The cultic aspects came along more and more as CB's influence captured KKd and his wife. (Don't forget, they were regular people once.) Hatha yoga probably replaced tennis as per VD's influence. CB used to mock sports like golf and tennis as useless and idiotic. Also, CB nixed KKd's idea to open the school to local kids. CB had such a fear of "contamination" on all levels of his being, from germs to karmis. What is not in this talk is that KKd really needed financial assistance to keep the school running. Parents could not afford the bills because most had surrendered their lives to CB. The school folded because of this. CB would not offer one cent to help the school. As CB lost control over this generation of kids and followers, he decided to open the infamous school in a third world country far away from authorities and parents to raise a generation to support his old age."

Zelig wrote:

"Yes, there was a school. There was talk about letting local kids go to the school - that's why they adopted the Hawaiian name. I think Mike wanted this, but CB didn't. And CB would not give a dime to the school. That is correct. He did not value kids and now blames parents for raising "cats and dogs"!"
[forum.culteducation.com]

"The school did not have chanting sessions, but the reading and writing contained both secular material as well as Krishna stories. It most likely failed because parents could not pay the tuition that would support Mike and the other teachers and their families, along with supplies and rent. Running a private school on tuition alone is next to impossible."
[forum.culteducation.com]

"In my attempt to show the difference between the Ponomauloa school and the CB school in the Phillipines or an ISKCON one, I should have included the word “long” sessions (and specifically defined it as japa mantra meditation on beads). In my experience, at the Ponomauloa school, there were no long chanting sessions (as with the infamous gurukulas, including CB’s PI site).

There was singing (of course krish-man mantras and songs along with Mike’s famous aloha Hawaii riffs) and I think that a guitar class was part of the music curriculum. But artiks with japa chanting were done at home at the discretion of parents, as children did live with their families (another difference). The point being is that this school was trying to model itself like most any other religious school and was not abusive (at least as defined by the Department of Children’s Services). No yoga was taught (late 1984) and the only person really doing hatha yoga at that time was Kat and Wai.

Most parents at that time did not want to send their kids far away to the PI school. They had heard awful things about it from one of Kat’s sons. They also wanted a local school, especially for the girls. I know nothing about a Samoa school, but that doesn’t mean one did not exist. I do know that the school in Hawaii certainly did exist. I also know that it was a good attempt. I can’t know for sure how much of CB’s influence caused it to fold. As I said in a previous post, there were initial discussions about opening the school to local kids similar to Catholic schools which teach religion along with secular subjects to non-Catholics. I am fairly certain that this was Mike’s idea and CB would not go for it. I do know that I was very upset at the fact that CB did not help the school out financially. And it always disturbed me because the kids desperately needed a school while many of the parents worked full time for CB or volunteered at the school. Siddhaswarupananda had no care for the welfare of the children. That was another reason I left. Several of the families that started that first year are also no longer in SOI.

This is how it worked with certain projects. Someone would get an idea and run it by CB who would say yea or nay. (Yes, people came up with ideas and initiatives. There were a lot of creative and dynamic people in those days. In those years, for [i:7716e87034]some[/i:7716e87034] projects, he did not micro manage. I remember Mike being frustrated trying to create a good school for the kids without funding. He wanted to open it up to local kids. I am sure CB did not want this."
[forum.culteducation.com]

Yourself and Zelig knew the school well didn't you. Neither of you mention that a school existed previously in Samoa, that never came up in discussion ever during your time in the cult.

To spell it out exactly for you Rick I've split their posts up to the exact similarities. You certainly make me work but I am very persistent.

Vera = The original school had a fundamentals curriculum ("the three R's" Reading, Riting, Rithmatic =) with some basic philosophy;

Zelig = the reading and writing contained both secular material as well as Krishna stories.


Vera =Also, CB nixed KKd's idea to open the school to local kids... modeled after a Catholic School.

Zelig = there were initial discussions about opening the school to local kids similar to Catholic schools which teach religion... I think Mike wanted this, but CB didn't.


Vera = CB would not offer one cent to help the school.

Zelig = And CB would not give a dime to the school


Vera = It most likely failed because parents could not pay the tuition

Zelig = Parents could not afford the bills because most had surrendered their lives to CB. The school folded because of this.


Vera = This was his style at the time -- just wanted everyone else to run things. No micro-manangement.

Zelig = In those years, for some projects, he did not micro manage.



You think you are so clever Zelig don't you, or Zera, even without the back story I got you.

Quote
Vera
The formation of the SIF Board

Good help is hard to find!

Women are put in their place......

Big donors were getting upset about how the money was being spent,
so CB set up a new policy to appease them and keep his coffers growing...
The only thing he wants is money.
So much for "simple living and high thinking".

NOW THIS IS JUICY INFORMATION... here in black and white is what we have been talking about in previous posts for the past two years or so...

No wonder they were wondering about money being wasted or squandered ... changing hotels and hotel rooms every day??? ... duh... not enough air circulation in some rooms -- (ever try opening a window??? The Trade Winds are ALWAYS blowing in Hawaii, are they not???) RIDICULOUS, RIDICULOUS, RIDICULOUS!!!

It's amazing that some people put up with this nonsense ... but these were probably the ones that ended up suffering with from major depression or even suicidal tendencies, I wonder???

Meanwhile, back to the topic of BEES:

There was a woman from Hong Kong
Who was married but not for long.
She got married, you see,
And became the Queen Bee
And she sings like ding dang dong...

And now preaches that divorce is all wrong!

:0)

PS - MANY THANKS TO VERA FOR TAKING THE TROUBLE TO POST THIS INFO ON THIS SITE!
AND THANKS TO RICK ROSS FOR ALLOWING THIS THREAD TO KEEP GOING.

Quote
SoI Kills
Good one Googs. But Cara would never be bothered to go through all your posts like that. She doesn't have the patience for information that is not relevant to anything. That's my perfectionism playing up. I go overboard sometimes. Nice try. In your defense though you've probably run out of unique things to say about the cult after three years on here right?

Since you like humor so much googling:

Do you remember sending those emails to Cara? She happened to show them to me and it definitely portrays you in a rather different light than you have presented here.

Did not the Moderator just tell you to stop the personal attacks?

Why do you continue?

PLEASE STOP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS.

Thanks for your cooperation :-)

:)