Do you remember Chris in the old days?
Sure yer i remember Chris he was that dude so wasted sucking on a bong telling me how he was going to start a cult and get rich doing it and figured he could keep surfing while it went down .. we told him to shut up stop talking s... n pass the billy

Did he mention the chicks then?
sure he told me just after he vomited out the door of the kombi ... ill find the most stupid bitches i can find even if i have to go to OZ to find them ill tell them its ok for the guys have 2 or 3 wifes get some Double action for the boys he said with a wink and a nudge if they don’t want go with it ill chuck them a yoga school or 2

Did he mention the gold coast at that time?
actuality he said " on the gold coast and the rest of Australia ill let them pull off a huge game of charades .. they can BS all the general public and get away with as many illegal activities like tax avoidance and cash under the massage table your know the score the more hidden cash the more for blllys for me right wink wink"


So what about the kids of the those people didn’t they work it out they were all part of a massive scam?
"hell no Chris told them to keep those kids home Turn off the tvs ... HOME SCHOOL HOME SCHOOL and teach the suckers to surf so they can save my life if the swells get to big out the front of the big shop"

So was criss happy with the results?
Go figure SCUM OF THE earth walking sleeping and telling there BS in our australia hell yer he was happy money pouring in everywhere........

Did he promise them stuff for their loyalty?
Oh sure some tell us how they love all the music gear OR VIDEO GEAR they are given...

Anything else he tempted them with drugs, sex, Meat Pies?
sure he got the old double action plan happening for the boys right away they loved there Chris cause he says its ok to do the HAVE as many wife's and kids and then deny your with any and receive massive centerlink payout scams a real big bonus for all ...

But what if the women didn’t agree?
well he said that’s simple we could just threaten them or bash and beat them if they did not comply ( old Chris really like to make sure they get what they deserve your know )

is it true he would give some devotes houses too ?
for sure Chris would say go out and BUY A nice big house in one of the best of spots. then bring as many new people there and covert them will all your might tell them they can have a house just like it one day all they need to do is join up .....

wow such a smart man with such smart followers how does he support them all?
They love him cause some of his lawyers are so smart they have shown most of his followers the old CREDIT CARD SCAM ... You go bankrupt buy what you like on the cards of course pay for a trip to Hawaii and donate a card or two to good old me the junkie in Hawaii. You wouldn’t believe how many beers you can buy on one of those dumb sons of B... credit cards he used to say.......


Chris looks like a god to me too whats he ask for all these great offers?
Your so right all he asks from you is to JUST KEEP ON BRINGING IN THE SUCKERS so he can rip them too!!!!

So what was the best advice he offered your?

Actually he offered me to bits of advice one was a more of a greeting it went like this:

• so many people are lost in Australia but don’t worry your running now with the the best crew of charlatans and ill make sure they suck your ass 100% ..

And

• We wrap our poo in many different packets but dam it still smells and look like poo

What was the last thing he said to ?
You packing another cone olly?

a while back this came from Dassi:

Quote:
Dassi
Okay. Enough.
There are over a hundred pages
from all different angles
about FL and his little cult.
(I'm not suggesting that the discussion should end).

But now what?
What is the SOLUTION?
Can we discuss and FOCUS ON SOLUTIONS for:
The children still in the cult?
Members who want to reform things?
People who want out but are afraid?
How would you advise these people?
Support them?
What will make a positive difference in their lives?


I am wondering if anyone else has given this some thought...the Solution. ?

A newspaper headline today was about a Senate commission to investigate dealings of several evangelical churches' financial dealings, as a response to complaints that monies were not being used as intended. Does anyone think that SOI could withstand a close financial audit, including the businesses that support it? What about the practices of using volunteer and underage labourers? Where do the profits from these enterprises go? I saw some financial disclosures a while back, but I am wondering if a call for a full investigation would get anywhere.

I sincerely believe that the wrong-doings need to be exposed for what they are, in order to clean house and (perhaps) move forward.

I am also saddened that no devotees have stepped forward to address any of these questions. Perhaps they do not care to defend their Guru? how sad. Is it rotten through and through?

Quote
terrenaut
I sincerely believe that the wrong-doings need to be exposed for what they are, in order to clean house and (perhaps) move forward.

I am also saddened that no devotees have stepped forward to address any of these questions. Perhaps they do not care to defend their Guru? how sad. Is it rotten through and through?

If I may offer some information in relation to your question only yesterday CR received a phonecall which went : "You bitch, all this negativity, you just can't let anything go, you stupid bitch, whatever you do is just more publicity for me."

It was the subject of much interested discussion (and laughter) since with the site down and the forum so quiet it is not apparent what motivated this call. The last one was when the Gold Coast Bulletin published their article back in April.

I really do think that is a fair indication of the attitude of devotees towards reform, alongside ASM's severely misleading new website.

Not only do they not want to defend their guru but his own followers were the direct cause of all of this exposure in the first instance. Had they been engaging in the behaviour of Vaishnavas a lot of things may well have been left unsaid. It is a recurring theme on this thread to simply state that everything is lies or denounce individual followers rather than face up to the fact that Chris Butler has been misleading about a lot of things and there are definite issues within his organisation.

You may have noticed also on this forum that Jeannie Bishop denounced ASM and claimed that they were a seperate organisation and that Chris Butler does not concern himself with who becomes his students. Also that his disciples do not necessarily represent him.

Officially - according to their taxation documents - the Science of Identity Foundation doesn't even have any affiliated organisations, which implies that all of the meditation centres are seperate entities which just so happen to be run by those who are initiated disciples of Chris Butler and an increasingly incestous following linked by marriage on a global scale. Anyone who has ever been involved with Chris Butler knows damn well that he is running everything, whether he admits it to the tax office or not.

Like their defence their cover stories for being just a group of likeminded people are a complete joke.

For those who are still in the cult, including the children, I think that there can be only one solution and that would be to take the only person who has had enough motza to call SIF on all the hypocrisy and actually demand some answers and use that mind to make things better. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer huh Chris?

First step to resolving anything is that you have to admit that you have a problem.

What should have happened in my opinion is that when the exposure first started Chris Butler should have put down the bong and reached over here and bitch slapped those responsible. Like any guru worth the title he should have demanded how the fuck does anyone ever come to my disciples to hear about Krishna wanting to serve me and get turned away? If you can't even keep the easy converts then it's no wonder I've only got a handfull of new devotees in the last decade.

SIF will not even attempt to answer anything unless there is a gun held to their head. It is a recurring theme on this forum that coming here has been a last resort for those who still hold beliefs that they just can't follow because of the necessity of a guru and not one to be found.

I can guess there are those that would say well you shouldn't have a guru, shouldn't need one, there's no such thing and it is all a crock of shit. It suits SIF to say all those people are just a bunch of demons and atheists, but they are also ignoring those who hold the same ideals that they supossedly have given their lives to upholding.

Sooner or later for anything to change someone has got to to take a stand and I would think that people who want to see change occur would support that. Again in just my opinion that hasn't really happened. There are thousands of current followers who will just swallow whatever Chris Butler tells them to think, who really should have caught on by now and who are getting way too much out of it for themselves in a lot of cases to care less about Chaitanya's Mission. If they even remember what it is supossed to be.

Has anyone seen the SouthPark on Scientology? Stan is made the reincarnation of L Ron Hubbard and they put him in charge of writing a new book for Scientology to direct the future of the organisation. He buys all the stories that they tell him about Xenu and gets right to it. Then he decides that it's for the good of all mankind if the truth is made free so that everyone can have it and the Jagad Guru of Scientology turns to him and says "Wait - you don't really believe this shit do you?"

Chris Butler knows that people are being lied to. He made up most of the lies himself. He knows what is going on because he gives out the orders to do it. It's his own paranoia that dictates not telling people about what the meditation centres are for up front. It's his own arrogance that makes him say hell don't listen to any of the stuff being said just put up ten thousand spam sites and make some obscene phonecalls.

There are two ways to go about it really.

Either try to cut off Chris Butler's following by stopping new recruits, trying to impact his ability to make money, try to have some laws acted on or made if necessary to stop deceptive meditation that is just thought control by another name and possibly persuade or shame some of his followers out in the process

or

Keep on trying to talk to a brick wall.

My wake up moment came when a friend of mine killed himself over the idea that there was nothing he could do to live up to the standards Chris Butler hands down. He knew that he wasn't happy with the way his life was going and that it must be because he was a bad devotee because doesn't Krishna take care of his devotees? He wrote to Chris Butler to ask for his guidance and never got an answer.

The disciples that looked down on him and made his life hell had no way of knowing how serious he really was. They were always finding fault with him and telling him that he was the dreaded not serious enough. Maybe he had a medical condition but there was no way that he could go to a doctor and maybe get some anti-depressents or even some counselling because that would be even more proof that he wasn't capable of doing the right thing.

Those disciples are still walking around like their shit doesn't stink thinking they are a select few out of the whole human race while a grown man who cried to feel Krishna again like he used to before he ever got involved with them wasn't good enough to be in their world.

I have spent a lot of time being angry and trying to think up what could be revenge for just one of the wrongs that Chris Butler has lead. I wanted some way to make it right.

Eventually I figured it is a pretty pathetic and empty life for those followers anyway to live. Always afraid that something is going to happen like a chicken will sneeze on them or big bad ISKCON will finally get around to shooting their guru so oooooh better not let on where he is. I recently heard that his house is in Kai Lai by the way.

Always grovelling before an image of God that they are never going to be good enough for and a guru that doesn't have time to even think up proper spiritual names for them. Always plotting and scheming to defend something that really isn't worth having.

I'm glad you woke up. I'm sorry for your friend. I recall hearing about a devotee who had killed himself. We had to listen to a tape of the Official Response. In it, CB berated the devotee for killing himself, saying what a terrible thing he had done, etc. , that he had tried to help him but he (the devotee) would not listen, and all that.

anyway, we spent the day chanting, we were all a little in shock. I know what you mean, so many people are horribly depressed, trying to do their best, never measuring up, the despair, the constant berating, put-downs, it really can wear some people down. I admit to keeping a low profile, trying to stay out of trouble. It is pretty horrible what can happen at the local level, I guess I always assumed it would get better with more advanced devotees. I'm hearing otherwise. Sounds like the 'higher' you go, the worse the attitudes become.

Your friend is gone, but it would be good if nobody else had to die. oh yeah...I always wondered why CB was so worried about germs. surely if he is Krishna's most devoted servant he will be well taken care of? sounds like too-little faith, if you ask me. (nobody ever does)

Sadly there have been more than a few suicides among Chris Butler's followers and there are a few lectures like that.

One was recorded with regards to my friend though and it was very damning of him. No sympathy or sadness or concern whatsoever.

He was damned by the man himself to come back as a ghost and suffer for many lifetimes for his "selfish" and "ignorant" act.

I honestly feel like I understand what it is like to feel that you are just hanging in there, not fitting in, not progressing spiritually, your best is never enough and not being able to fathom the concept of leaving. It is a horrible feeling to be checking everything you do around the other devotees, wondering what they are saying about you, being judged and damned right to your face when it suits them. Blaming yourself because you have doubts and deciding that you have to try harder and just wearing yourself into the ground, never getting anywhere. I really hope that you are not going through that right now.

I have been reading a bit about deprogramming and part of the process has been showing people evidence of their cult leader's crimes and hypocrisies and that other cults exist that are just like them. The thing is that most of the followers of Chris Butler know exactly what he is doing. They know that he is a homophobe and they laugh at his rants about fags and when he chastises other followers. They know that he comes out with such ridiculous claims as people can live without a brain and graduate from university.

Anyone who has been there has seen how the kids are treated and how wives are treated and how new people are lied to when they ask questions and have handed over their money to Chris Butler. There are a lot of people actively going along with it and getting something out of it for themselves. There are plenty of people that just plain don't want to leave. As I understand this is called brainwashing and that certainly does exist in SoI, but is there ever a time when it is acceptable to draw the line and say these people are making decisions?

When I read the open letter to Australian Meditation I understood what it meant without feeling any reason to sit in judgement on the author or feel that she was promoting SIF. I don't want to start an argument about it but my opinion is that there are plenty of things that people can see wrong with the world. Some of them, especially where Chris Butler is involved in telling them are extremely exaggerated and outright made up. A lot of devotees are saying well if I left where would I go and what would I do? Some people, I was one of them, have turned to spiritual life and wanted badly to believe in Chris Butler or someone like him because their life has been hard or sad or unfullfilling. Of course cults realise this and people like Chris Butler aim to expolit it for their own gain. But I have known people and there have been stories on this forum who would have killed themselves if they had not changed their life somehow and who were on drugs or involved in stuff that would most likely have seen them end up in jail.

I know devotees would read this forum and they would think even if we are unhappy these people don't really seem that happy. Even if so and so is divorced or does x y z that is not the values that we try to live by these people (or who we think they are) are probably equally bad if not a lot worse.

There is coercion to stop people from leaving if they want to, expecially when kids or relationships are involved but everyone has to choose between right and wrong. When a kid is being abused it is common for people to look the other way. They don't want to accept so they don't. Maybe they try to do something that won't affect their relationship with the abuser or protect the kid but not get their friend/husband/brother into trouble. It is a rare person that is willing to put themselves to any effort or disavantage for someone else - but they have the choice to do it.

The point I want to make is that we could talk and talk about hypocrisies and wrong doings in Chris Butler's cult. Maybe there is something good that people take away from it but Chris Butler has proven that he does not want to address any issues and that he is not concerned for those who are being hurt by his followers. He has proved this in the way that he has treated a real person with a name who tried to find reason and just kept finding out how degraded it all was. Not some anonymous complainant (and I am not casting stones at anyone since I am one myself) from years ago.

BTW terranaut I think that you asked so you might be interested to know that the cultofbutler site and it is back up in an older version while the new model is being built.

surely if he is Krishna's most devoted servant he will be well taken care of? sounds like too-little faith, if you ask me. (nobody ever does)

ahh but you see it is not him that is faulty but from his followers for heaping so much bad karma onto him that he suffers so terribly.

I think that exposure of the cult is the best thing since at least if followers are forced to perceive how they are being viewed it may prompt the more influential to lead starting to treat others a little better.

I think now is a very important time to be trying to address these issues with the sucession of Chris just a matter or time. He looks pretty decripid to me from his most recent photos. I'm sure there are a few who think he will live forever which is probably why they keep all those younger pictures of him everywhere.

Once people are in they are subjected to a lot of influences wheras keeping people out manages to break that cycle. No more people to work in their factories and no more women to chain to their kitchen sinks might be the only motivation that they need.

I remember when Biharilal killed himself very well. I had met him a few times and I considered him a friend.

I thought he was a real sweet person, mellow, and very genuine.

A few red flags went up for me after this unfortunate incident. I'm glad the topic of suicide amongst FLs' followers was brought up because I had meant to post about this before.

Here was a devotee who had been with FL since they were both teenagers! And yet, he was not insulated to suffer the slings and arrows of human emotions which lead to desperation. How sad. How unfortunate that all those years of chanting and dancing and serving did not protect him.

Then FL immediately puts out a lecture clearly denouncing this "heinous" act that was a result of OFFENSES AGAINST HIS SPIRITUAL MASTER!!!

See how FL put a spin on it to serve HIS OWN NEEDS. Fuck that shit!! Where is the compassion and sympathy for a long-time friend? Where were his devotee friends to help and support him while he was suffering?

It must have been obvious to his friends that he was depressed. Did anyone reach out to him? No - they were too busy serving FL to bother with him.

BTW, this is the first time I've ever used profanity on this forum but as you can tell, this really angers me.

And SoI, your posts of late are right on the money.

Quote
SoI Kills
I honestly feel like I understand what it is like to feel that you are just hanging in there, not fitting in, not progressing spiritually, your best is never enough and not being able to fathom the concept of leaving. It is a horrible feeling to be checking everything you do around the other devotees, wondering what they are saying about you, being judged and damned right to your face when it suits them. Blaming yourself because you have doubts and deciding that you have to try harder and just wearing yourself into the ground, never getting anywhere. I really hope that you are not going through that right now.

This is EXACTLY how I felt!!

Oh man. I'm going to pray for Biharilal's soul tonight. I can't even type anymore right now. Lord have mercy upon him.

This is the sort of garbage that Chris Butler carries on about while his followers are killing themselves and running his centres into the ground.

[honoluluweekly.com]

Media Watch 12-13-06
by Chris Haire / 12-13-2006
Most radio talk show hosts care little about reporting the news. They trade in fringe views and politically incorrect opinions.

Whether it’s tinfoil-hat theories about the 9/11 attacks or the secular-humanist war against Christmas or claims that Bill Clinton is actually responsible for the bad behavior of boy-loving Republicans, radio chat is all about being contrary and controversial.

These hosts will say that they are simply presenting the truth in all its uncensored, propaganda-free glory. They would be wrong.

Here’s the funny thing about the truth: It isn’t a secret somebody is keeping from you. It’s out there for all to see, on page one. On CNN. At the Drudge Report. (OK, at least more often than not.) But talk radio?

Which brings us to the so-called truth that Hesh Goldstein of KWAI 1080 AM was peddling two weeks ago on his show “Healthy Talk” on how to solve the AIDS pandemic. (And no, Goldstein, a former Down to Earth employee, didn’t suggest bran muffins, daily meditation and a diet free from fluoride.)

Goldstein’s solution: mandatory testing for all and quarantine for the infected. Yikes. That’s inhumane, not to mention impossible. But that’s how Goldstein sees it, and there’s a reason why. I’ll let Goldstein tell you in his own words: “It’s a death sentence for a perverted action,” Goldstein said last week when I spoke to him about the broadcast. “The planet has a way of controlling the population.”

$34 million
The cost of the state’s plan to build transitional and affordable housing for O‘ahu homeless
(Honolulu Advertiser)
When asked about those who get AIDS via blood transfusions or from their birth mother, Goldstein said they were simply unfortunate victims.

During our talk, he also dropped this little fact of which I previously was unaware: In the early days of the AIDS epidemic there was a movement by HIV-infected homosexual men to have sex with heterosexual women in order to spread the disease. When I asked him about the claim, he said that it was “pretty common knowledge,” but ultimately conceded that he couldn’t document it.

On Tuesday, I spoke with K-108 general manager Barry Wagenvoord about Goldstein’s comments. Wagenvoord said that Goldstein purchases the block of time for his “Healthy Talk” program and is free to say what he wants. However, Wagenvoord says that he does not approve of defamatory statements and that if Goldstein gets out of line or the station gets too many complaints, something would have to be done.


I wonder if anything has been done yet?

Has anyone else heard Chris Butler talking about how the "fags" have ruined Christmas? That they are responsible for the X-mas because they can't even stand to hear the name of a pure devotee? That the gays want to get rid of Christmas because it reminds them about the wrong disgusting lifestyles that they have?

Since it is that time of year I got a little curious, so I looked it up.

In early Greek versions of the New Testament, the letter × (chi), is the first letter of Christ (×ñéóôüò). Since the mid-sixteenth century ×, or the similar Roman letter X, was used as an abbreviation for Christ. Hence, "Xmas" is often used as an abbreviation for Christmas.

That is cut and paste from Wiki, but the reference is none other than the Oxford Dictionary [www.askoxford.com] (will need to scroll down few pages)

I haven't been able to find one example of gays protesting Christmas. What I have been able to find is a ton of articles about how there is concern over upsetting people that are of different religions and a lot of exagerations.

Are they really trying to ban Christmas? [www.guardian.co.uk]

Will Chris Butler actually substantiate his claims this year that the gays are to blame?

How does he explain the Gay and Lesbian Vaishnava Association www.galva108.com ? Openly gay and lesbian people that are actually attracted to Krishna? Not much absolute in that truth.