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just-googling

Thanks for posting this. I see that they mentioned a link to this thread on that blog. This thread seems to be turning a few heads around the world, not only in Hawaii with Sid's political foes, but also with ex-devotees, fringe devotees, and even current devotees who are wondering what the heck has become of their Fearless Leader.

:shock:

My hope is that devotees *and* Fearless Leader are reading this thread. Really, the facts and analysis that have been brought out here are quite extraordinary. I have read many intelligent and reasoned responses, based on known facts, scripture, authorized sources...the lot. Excellent work, unarguable even.

Also, further reading on cult behaviours definitely puts the Chris Butler Science of Identity trip in that category.

I believe Dassi would probably say "No shit, Sherlock!!" at this point. Well, okay then :)

I wonder why FL does not do things like this instead of making slasher cartoons and engaging in politics.

[www.youtube.com]

I wonder how FL would answer this question.

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terrenaut

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just-googling

Thanks for posting this. I see that they mentioned a link to this thread on that blog. This thread seems to be turning a few heads around the world, not only in Hawaii with Sid's political foes, but also with ex-devotees, fringe devotees, and even current devotees who are wondering what the heck has become of their Fearless Leader.

:shock:

My hope is that devotees *and* Fearless Leader are reading this thread. Really, the facts and analysis that have been brought out here are quite extraordinary. I have read many intelligent and reasoned responses, based on known facts, scripture, authorized sources...the lot. Excellent work, unarguable even.

Also, further reading on cult behaviours definitely puts the Chris Butler Science of Identity trip in that category.

I believe Dassi would probably say "No shit, Sherlock!!" at this point. Well, okay then :)

:) :) :) No shit, Sherlock!
FYI - my favorite character on the tv show LOST (which reminds me of SoI) is Sawyer because he has all the best wise guy lines!

Lots of nice chanting on youtube. I'm glad I checked it out! Very cool.

Youtube is such a high traffic site - it's a really good way to broadcast the Holy Names. Isn't this what Vaishnavas should be doing? It does make you wonder if FLs agenda has anything to do with Vaishnavism.

It seems to be that most of his devotees are so stressed by their "service" that they have very little time to really focus on chanting. It was my experience that hardly anybody had time to study scripture.

This may be off topic, but I remember hearing that ACB was convinced that the U.S. never landed on the moon. It's quite funny to think about it really - I mean I've seen some documentaries outlining a conspiracy theory etc. regarding NASA - but for ACB to laugh about it and say it was all a sham makes one wonder...

Child molestation and violence against children was going on under ACB's watch. Is that mentioned in the folios? Of course ACB would not condone these activities, but what did he do about them when he found out? How much did he know prior to his death? There are rumors that he was poisoned, but I tend to think that he died of a broken heart if he found out what all his “generals” were up to. I think he was a saintly fellow, but all saints have flaws. He didn’t have either the courage or strength or was too naïve to confront the realities of these bogus swamis.

And the perpetrators certainly knew they were going against ACB's teachings, so they hid a lot of their activities. ISKCON was out of control and its swamis involved in well documented criminal activities. Just read the swami record! [www.harekrsna.org] [note that this is a pro- ISKCON site and I do not agree with all of their ideas, but they have documented a lot of the shenanigans of the bogus swamis]
See also [www.harekrsna.org]
EXCELLENT ESSAY!


There was a lot going on that either ACB did not know about (should have) or was in denial about. The folios are only a collection of letters and minutes from meetings. After the death of ACB, you have no way of knowing if things were removed or deleted.

YES Siddha was a paranoid tilly
in face of the ISKCON swami machismo.
It's true that Siddha was always hypersensitive
and could not get with the program or collaborate. [/size:bdc5cb42fa]

Were there plots and threats?
I was close to a man who witnessed these directly.
Were they really serious?
Questionable. Even understandable,
considering the level of religious fanaticism
exhibited by these dudes!
Jealousy?
Probable and natural on both sides.

There are pieces of this story that will always be missing from the folio.

See: [www.harekrsna.org]

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Satsvarupa: (Steven Guarrino)… destruction of the oral histories collected from Srila Prabhupada's disciples, creating the "false biography" called the LILAMRITA - planting the weed, in which all events are carefully "laundered" to protect the guilty and to misrepresent Srila Prabhupada. (The original tapes were destroyed to prevent corrections by future generations), helped, with his rhetoric, in the murder of Sulochana.

I myself witnessed some of the attitude of the ISKCON macho dudes and Siddha’s struggles with them.

No doubt quotesman you bring true and valid points, but the fact also remains that in addition to what you have brought forward (of which I have no quarrel), much of the history behind the scenes was never recorded.

IMO, I fault ACB for his unwise and naïve decision to place too young, immature and untrained men in positions of power. I also do not fault him at the same time, because these young western men, doe eyed with puppy tails wagging, wanting to adopt ACB’s culture and religion so eagerly would have melted the heart of any teacher. I am sure they pressured him to allow them these vows of sanyassi. [especially in light of the number of women haters among them].

Atheist - here is a great website. Follow the money. You can do local research too.
[www.opensecrets.org]

Quotesman - here's a question for you - In "Autobiography of a Yogi" Yogananda defined "chaitanya" as referring to "Christ consciousness". Any comments?

Also, speaking of Christ, FL lectured quite strongly on the fact that Christians worship the body and blood of Christ because he gave himself as a sacrifice so that sins may be forgiven. FLs main point was that God does not make sacrifices to anyone because he is God and who is he making a sacrifice to? Also, FL said he certainly would NOT sacrifice his most dearly beloved pure devotee.

Another example of FL being, for lack of a better word - WRONG!!!

The most sensible (and brief) explanation that I follow is this (and I do NOT mean to preach, just to expand on the central beliefs of many Christians that FL seems to miss): God saw the sinful nature of the world and the suffering. Of course, being the Lord, he does not experience suffering so he had to empower his son to suffer for us, instruct us, and lead by example. Christ did this to absolute perfection.

In the Last Supper, Christ gave the institution of the Eucharist to the Apostles saying that the bread and wine represent his body and blood, which will be given up for us. FL totally ignored this.

I also heard, I don't know from FL but definitely from one of his disciples, that Christ was actually in ecstatic bliss while on the cross and went into a form of samadhi and when he rose again he was just awakening from his "yogic trance". This is absolute crap!!!

I could go on and on here but I won't.

If anyone here reading this is from the Democratic group in Hawaii and are wondering what Chris Butler's group has to do with Catholicism because Mike Gabbard (a.k.a Krishna Katha das) claims to be a Catholic, I will tell you: NOTHING!!!

Krishna Katha das (a.k.a. Mike Gabbard) was lying and would have been told to do so by his guru - Chris Butler. This guru claims he is God's representative. One would therefore think that he would have some insight into Christianity. Such is not the case.

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hoax108
Lots of nice chanting on youtube. I'm glad I checked it out! Very cool.

Youtube is such a high traffic site - it's a really good way to broadcast the Holy Names. Isn't this what Vaishnavas should be doing? It does make you wonder if FLs agenda has anything to do with Vaishnavism.

It seems to be that most of his devotees are so stressed by their "service" that they have very little time to really focus on chanting. It was my experience that hardly anybody had time to study scripture.

This may be off topic, but I remember hearing that ACB was convinced that the U.S. never landed on the moon. It's quite funny to think about it really - I mean I've seen some documentaries outlining a conspiracy theory etc. regarding NASA - but for ACB to laugh about it and say it was all a sham makes one wonder...

Yea I agree with everything but the last part.

ACB's intention was to show the material scientist could not prove they went to the moon anymore than He (ACB) could prove Krishna is God or God exists.
Later on ACB shocked many of his followers by saying, 'perhaps they went to the moon.'

The point being they show pictures of the moon landing and the devotee show pictures of Krishna. All this proves is the people trust the scientist and the devotees trust the sadhus. It was ACB's in 'your face attitude' towards materialistic science. Whether or not we went to the moon is a moot point. Personally I could not care less. If we did go it was a great waste of money, time and life and if we did not go it was a big farce to raise nationalism and patriotism. Either way means little to a devotee. Personally I believe we went to the moon but it would not astonish me if that turned out to be as big a farce as the war in Iraq.

The point is where do you put your trust and faith? In modern science or in the sages, saints and sadhus?

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hoax108
Quotesman - here's a question for you - In "Autobiography of a Yogi" Yogananda defined "chaitanya" as referring to "Christ consciousness". Any comments?

Also, speaking of Christ, FL lectured quite strongly on the fact that Christians worship the body and blood of Christ because he gave himself as a sacrifice so that sins may be forgiven. FLs main point was that God does not make sacrifices to anyone because he is God and who is he making a sacrifice to? Also, FL said he certainly would NOT sacrifice his most dearly beloved pure devotee.

Another example of FL being, for lack of a better word - WRONG!!!

The most sensible (and brief) explanation that I follow is this (and I do NOT mean to preach, just to expand on the central beliefs of many Christians that FL seems to miss): God saw the sinful nature of the world and the suffering. Of course, being the Lord, he does not experience suffering so he had to empower his son to suffer for us, instruct us, and lead by example. Christ did this to absolute perfection.

In the Last Supper, Christ gave the institution of the Eucharist to the Apostles saying that the bread and wine represent his body and blood, which will be given up for us. FL totally ignored this.

I also heard, I don't know from FL but definitely from one of his disciples, that Christ was actually in ecstatic bliss while on the cross and went into a form of samadhi and when he rose again he was just awakening from his "yogic trance". This is absolute crap!!!

I could go on and on here but I won't.

If anyone here reading this is from the Democratic group in Hawaii and are wondering what Chris Butler's group has to do with Catholicism because Mike Gabbard (a.k.a Krishna Katha das) claims to be a Catholic, I will tell you: NOTHING!!!

Krishna Katha das (a.k.a. Mike Gabbard) was lying and would have been told to do so by his guru - Chris Butler. This guru claims he is God's representative. One would therefore think that he would have some insight into Christianity. Such is not the case.

Chaitanya also means consciousness. So when we say Krishna Caitanya it can also mean Krishna Consciousness. IF we take the literal meaning of the word Christ, then yes it could translate into Christ Consciousness or God Consciousness, Christ meaning a God realized person or God Himself.

Without going tit for tat on all the things FL got wrong by trying to mix up Christianity with Vaishnavism, I will just say a few things with no intention of trying to start a quarrel. I am just laying out major differences in the belief system of Christianity as opposed to Vaishnavism. As pointed out by Queen Kunti in her prayers. The devotee does not want to stop suffering or to gain bliss or ananda. He is happy to take whatever Krishna offers. The devotee only cares to serve Krishna. If that entails suffering the devotee sees that as good as the opposite. The major difference is that the devotee does not like the idea of Krishna ever suffering whereas the Christian finds it acceptable that Jesus/God suffers. These are major differences in theology that cannot be combined.

Furthermore. In my opinion FL ideas about Christianity are as contrived and concocted as is his ideas about Vaishnavism. I don' t think he got either right. So he has more or less put two concoctions together to create a third concoction.