terranaut wrote

"I also noticed that CultReporter has disappeared. I saw her on another thread where she apologised to the group which had harmed her and it seemed she was returning to them. This is disturbing, anybody know where that is currently at? It was a little confusing, as she also said that cultreporter was a group of people trying to find the truth."

do you have a link to this site, or a name?

thanks.

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Rama Das (slave name)
terranaut wrote

"I also noticed that CultReporter has disappeared. I saw her on another thread where she apologised to the group which had harmed her and it seemed she was returning to them. This is disturbing, anybody know where that is currently at? It was a little confusing, as she also said that cultreporter was a group of people trying to find the truth."

do you have a link to this site, or a name?

thanks.

terre is referring to the thread on this forum:
[board.culteducation.com]
Australian School of Meditation - Open Letter

More great posts. Thanks to all for their contributions. I look forward to reading this forum everyday.

My comments: to googling:

- I have every reason to believe that Ph and K are still together. All respects to them! Wonderful people.

- Regarding others asked to renounce sannyasi and get married. I think Bkd was in this boat - and I think he was quite content to remain sannyasi but he "had to" obey instructions. Another wonderful devotee, in my mind. All respects!

Quotesman - thanks for the traits of a pure devotee. Describes JC to a tee.

-regarding Madonna and Xena - I left over 3 years ago and there wasn't much talk of these issues. They were just projects that had come and gone.

- when I left the focus was, and still is from what I've read on this forum, working on businesses that make money for the guru machine. FL has a hard-working and diligent FREE labor force out there. Its so great that all these well-intending devotees are being purified by their sacrifices to FL.

- Regarding the homophobia - personally I don't think FL is a latent homosexual. And I don't know why he's on about this so much - I suggested in an earlier post that he was using the gay community as a "straw man" to knock down. Maybe he has another agenda - maybe he's on a MISSION FROM GOD!!!!

By the way, I would not want to drink my own bath water so why in hell would I think that it would be pleasing to offer it to Krishna. FL should be concerned about the consciousness of his devotees. He seems more concerned with the sale of yoga mats, veggie chips, and how to manipulate the US Senate. And I am not cracking a joke here - this is a FACT!

Loved the quotes from Alice in Wonderland. Thanks for those.

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just-googling
Me too... How about Perry Como singing "Holy God We Praise Thy Name" :!: (The Christian version of "Haribol" and very mellow music)

Yes, I have this on tape and sometimes listen to this in the car... as well as my old chanting tapes, including "Crow Among the Swans"...
:wink:

:?:

Perry Como! I'll check it out! :lol: I love that cheeze ball music too!
I also liked the song, "...she looked like a painted picture...." about Radharani.

LONG LIVE MUSIC!

Regarding Katyani - I never heard anything bad about her from FL or any of his disciples. She had her own disciples and they were not supposed to mix with FLs disciples. Supposedly so there would be no conflict of instruction - obviously an FL rule which reeks of ego.

I did see some mixing of the groups in L.A. though. No big deal. I met her and BT once. They were really nice to me - and her children were absolutely beautiful.

I wish them well.

I remember listening to a lecture in which FL was talking about when ACB was approving various disciples as acharyas. Apparently Tusta received an "official" letter from ACB saying that he could accept disciples. FL was joking about this in his inimitable way, saying something like, "...well, at least he got a [i:ebfd869c9d]letter[/i:ebfd869c9d]". Apparently FL never received such a letter.

So I guess FL just got a verbal okay from ACB or whatever. I'd often wondered about this and it for some reason I got some bad vibes from that lecture.

I never met Tusta but everyone really admired his unwavering devotion to FL. From what I can tell he was a great devotee. I heard he never took his own disciples because he did not want to deflect any attention away from FL, whom he saw as a great soul.

I am going to address some of the things that popped up in the last few posts in my random freestyle way. Please BARE with me.

I never heard anything about ACB giving his endorsement for FL to accept disciples. In fact if you read the Folio just the opposite was said. He said outright FL was NOT a pure devotee. He did recognize both Vishnujana and Jayananda Prabhu as pure devotees but not FL or Tusta.

Indocentric verses Eurocentric:

I recently did an in depth research on the history of Indian clothing in particular the Indian Sari. What I found was astounding. In fact the present mode of dress for ladies in India is more Victorian Christian than it is Hindu or Vaishnava. I remember that ACB’s sister Pishma, used to go topless with just a shawl covering her upper parts. The western devotees complained that she was walking around in public topless. ACB replied something like, ‘she is old and stringy!!!” He did not think it even an issue.

The fact of the matter is in Vedic times, the most woman would cover on top was with a very light breast band and shawl. In the hotter areas the breast band was see through material. Many did not cover at all except with a shawl, not even any breast band.. This tradition is still present in many remote areas of India and up until the middle of the last century it was still the preferred mode of dress in the states of Kerala and Tamil Nadu, (South India). This mode of dress has all but disappeared with the arrival of western culture in India. The puritanical Victorian mode of dress came later. The British introduced the breast covering including the Choli and bra. Moslems were also influential and forced more clothes on the indigenous Indians.

From wikipedia:
“Some researchers state that these (upper breast coverings, the choli and bra) were unknown before the British arrived in India, and that they were introduced to satisfy Victorian ideas of modesty. Previously, women only wore one draped cloth and casually exposed the upper body and breasts. Other historians point to much textual and artistic evidence for various forms of breastband and upper-body shawl.” From wikipedia [en.wikipedia.org]

[www.puja.com]#
another good reference^

This also explains why the old temples in India are covered in stonework of scantily dressed woman.

So we should give up the idea that the puritanical Victorian idea of modesty was an Indocentric invention, it was a Eurocentric invention. It was introduced by both Christians and Moslems.

This one Zelig will like. It is a fact the first Jews arrived in India some 2,500 years ago and although their dress differed from Vaishnava Hindu India they did not try to impose their ways on Indians like later invading, Christians and Moslems did. It may also be noted they assimilated very nicely into Hindu culture as they came as friends and traders and not invading conquerors. Hindu India is known as being the only culture on earth that has not persecuted Jews. To this day the Jewish community is prosperous and regarded with great respect by Hindus.



Now we can just imagine if ACB had tried to introduce the more traditional Vaishnava wear when he came to America in the sixties!! ACB was not telling everything he knew about ancient Indian culture for obvious reasons. The Indian mind was not obsessed with sex like we are in the west. People were more controlled and therefore such dress was not an agitation for most of the population. Of course those days are over and cannot be re-introduced now in a society that promotes the idea that to please the material senses is the goal of life.

Don’t get me wrong I AM NOT ADVOCATING WOMEN SHOULD GO TOPLESS in this day and age.

On breaking sannyasa and giving sannyasa to the unqualified:

If we look at the Madhva Sampradaya that has existed for over 800 years we can see that this Vaishnava Sampradaya has produced many thousands of sannyasis. In all those hundreds of years only 2 or three of their sannyasis fell down. That is due to the Indocentric culture they live in. Sannyasa in India is still a lot easier than in the west.

We can second guess ACB all we want and conclude he gave sannyasa to those who were not fit. But the way I see it is like this. ACB was on a mission. It is up to each individual to decide from where that mission originates. But we can all agree he was on a mission to broadcast the Maha Mantra around the world. It was like a war. In every war you need generals. All he had was a rag tag group of hippies, former drug users, burned out surfers etc. (of course there were some more respectable types that joined but they were a minority). He needed generals. The sannyasi is like a general. So what to do in such a war? If some one comes forward saying they want to be a general you let them try. So he gave them the stick and sent them out to fight. That is what ACB did. Now on Monday morning we can look back and see that out of some 60 sannyasis, only 9 or 10 are left standing. Of those 9 or 10 we can see some have become acharyas. Some have left the world and their disciples are carrying on the tradition. SO fault ACB all you like. But I would have done the same thing in such a condition. Any smart general would have. But it is unprecedented that so many have fallen. This is a first in the Vaishnava tradition. I do not fault the order of sannyasa however, but rather the norms and mores of western society and its influence on all of us. It is very difficult for an average person to maintain the order in the west. Which by the way is why FL could not maintain it.

One of those sannyasa disciples of ACB that comes to mind was recognized by all other acharyas outside of ISKCON as a pure devotee, a maha bhagavata. He never left ISKCON and did all he could to reform it. Some of his disciples said he left the world early due to his broken heart at what at become of his beloved spiritual masters mission. His name was Gaura Govinda Maharaja and he was Indian. It may also be noted he had shiksa gurus outside of ISKCON. The official policy for ISKCON today is that no one is allowed to take instruction outside that organization. This is also true in FL’s cult. This is a completely foreign idea when it comes to Gaudiya Vaishnavism, it is a western invention and reeks of sectarianism and cultism.

I would like also people to consider this. There were many sadhus outside of ISKCON that did their best to help that organization. They were not throwing stones on the sinking ship hoping it would go down quicker. They had great love for ACB and his followers and wanted his mission to overcome the obstacles. Unfortunately those well wishers were not listened to. The mentality of a real sadhu is he does not like to see the fall of any devotee or his mission. He does what he can to stop it. In FL’s case he predicted what would happen in ISKCON and did absolutely nothing to try to prevent it. In fact I heard his big sannyasis boasting they were happy that ISKCON was going down. I am sorry but this is not the mentality of a pure devotee well wisher of all who has no enemies.

Hoax, concerning the Nityananda issue. It is not that FL was lying. It is just he does not know the truth about it. He does not know the truth about many things because he never had any shiksa guru to tell him the truth about so many things. So we give him the benefit of the doubt. I do not believe he intentionally lied. He is just in ignorance on the subject, that’s all.

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Akhenaten
Queen of Hearts: Who's been painting my roses red? WHO'S BEEN PAINTING MY ROSES RED? /Who dares to taint / With vulgar paint / The royal flower bed? / For painting my roses red / Someone will lose his head.
Card Painter: Oh please, your majesty, please! It's all his fault!
Card Painter: Not me, your grace! The ace, the ace!
Queen of Hearts: You?
Card Painter: No, two!
Queen of Hearts: The two, you say?
Card Painter: Not me! The three!
Queen of Hearts: That's enough! Off with their heads!

:lol: So that's what happened to the devotee who was growing those red roses for the Fearless Leader :lol:

There was another diligent devotee (4 of hearts?) who cut the shrubbery around Sid's window, so that the wind would not blow these branches against the window and therefore would not disturb Sid in his sleep, as Sid had complained about this happening before.

But what was Sid's reaction to this:

OFF WITH HIS HEAD! :cry:

As with the famous air conditioner conspiracy, there seems to be a lack of communication -- Sid is not communicating to his servants what he wants (he's too busy serving at the feet of God, I suppose?)

:P

as a side not to my previous post ....the navel and stomach are left bare because they represent the divine... So revealing ones navel and belly button, by Vaishnava standards is considered holy and auspicious.

Did you read this FL????

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hoax108
Regarding Katyani - I never heard anything bad about her from FL or any of his disciples. She had her own disciples and they were not supposed to mix with FLs disciples. Supposedly so there would be no conflict of instruction - obviously an FL rule which reeks of ego.

I did see some mixing of the groups in L.A. though. No big deal. I met her and BT once. They were really nice to me - and her children were absolutely beautiful.

I wish them well.

Yea not supposed to mix, just more sectarian cultish behavior. Thanx for the info. I can see things have not changed much.