Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: September 13, 2007 05:59AM
Nothing ever happens within SIF or regarding SIF that is not known about. Being a devotee is a devotees whole life, they think and communicate and plan about everything.
This thread started with a specific issue which I have been told repeatedly by sources that have proven credibility was resolved by the attention that was brought through here. That first post that was with regard to a minor becoming involved with SoI was infact the first time that anyone is aware of that SoI was challenged by anyone and I am told that the minor was returned to her family and that it all went away.
Given what went on when I came to this forum with the determination to research and expose SoI there is no reason to believe that the main posters here that have continued under various guises were not within SoI and seeking only to muddy the waters or downplay any controversies. The humor element is of absolutely no value and is really only counterproductive to any genuine exposure. Those with so much to say about me are really only establishing that they have nothing to say about SoI and just-googlings recent post giving some info not that I can say that I bothered to read it or ever will is a very transparent attempt to redeem himself now. I am sure that it could go on and on for saying that but I wont be entering into it.
The only concern that zelig had was for himself and his friends to attempt to control what I am doing and to utilise any opposition to their own ends ie to recruit their own following. Since one cannot use names here then this is not a platform for the truth but simply think that there are two major disciples that left Siddha and carried on becoming gurus themselves and there are several aspiring gurus as well, I know of at least two that I have seen with my own eyes.
When someone comes here new you will get PMs from just-googling or one of their group telling you who is genuine and who is not and that they know this for an absolute fact. They will tell you that RR reads PMs and that one has to be very careful (ie-paranoid) about what they say. They are the only ones that you can trust. You will be discouraged from taking any action or being too critical, their agenda is to discredit Siddhaswarupananda but not the belief system (hence the reason why they always get uppity when issues of theology are raised). They will pretend to have a genuine affinity with you and do not come across as bad people. Note how they repost already made posts (classic troll tactic) and make detailed rebuttals to others posts that have very little substance except always referring to 'we' as if they are speaking for everyone here the 'silent majority' which inexperienced activist types think is good and intimidating but it isnt really. Notice how they were not here until there was controversy and information and then they cant keep away from the place. These are people that are well practiced in cult recruitment techniques and you can see it if you know the signs to look out for. Of course if you have been involved with a cult you will notice it from experience and probably have an eerie feeling when someone that cant even tell you their name starts acting so paternalistic although the false concern just-googling uses to justify this bullshit did not extend to contacting me at all. CRAP. I will also point out that you cant hope to hurt someone that has lost the belief and the person that they care about most in the world but it says a lot about the kind of person you must be that you tried to.
Followers of other gurus (which is where most who leave SIF end up) read here to get new recruits. It is appealing to them to have followers that have dirt on another guru, always has been since the ISKCON days, the whole faith runs on a mutal agreement of silence and complicity with corruption. Any man who was a disciple for 20 years was definitely involved in the sort of thing that they are criticising now, and to still be hanging about after all this time they have some related agenda. Think about how likely it would actually be that so many people suppossedly getting on with their lives just decided one day to google their old gurus name all in the same one month period? It is inconceivable. As someone who does associate widely with Vaishnavas I know how fast gossip travels and what the games are here, I have even met some of the people playing them. There is one branch of KC that recruits specifically through here because it is beneficial to the focus of their mission.
I said that the people I have met here are no better than the people that I was not at all impressed with in ASM and in many ways are far worse and I stand by that. I dont care what the people that I have criticised from ASM think about me otherwise I would not have done it and I certainly do not care what any of cult zelig think about me either. For all the sabre rattling MR said anyone could have their own site and noone wants it - I wonder why that is :wink: I know exactly what I am doing and I am the only one that needs to know I certainly dont owe just-googling/just-babbling anything whatsoever. What I will say is that I will be selling my writing which is nothing that a professional writer doesnt do. I am communicating about several options for the free exchange of information and to found a project that will be for helping people in a practical way. I do have options and I am not a matyr or a saint so I need to balance what works for me and the greater good.
Whatever I do regarding ASM/SIF will be whatever I can believe allows for me to live my life at the same time as wanting to contribute positively to the world and help others who want to come to spiritual life. I believe in truth and charity and enquiring minds needing to know and that Conspiracies Happen. I know that I wont be reading or writing here anymore. I would just like to say thanks to you Rick for acting on what you believe in enough to actually follow it through this forum meant a lot to me when I needed it to.
This thread started with a specific issue which I have been told repeatedly by sources that have proven credibility was resolved by the attention that was brought through here. That first post that was with regard to a minor becoming involved with SoI was infact the first time that anyone is aware of that SoI was challenged by anyone and I am told that the minor was returned to her family and that it all went away.
Given what went on when I came to this forum with the determination to research and expose SoI there is no reason to believe that the main posters here that have continued under various guises were not within SoI and seeking only to muddy the waters or downplay any controversies. The humor element is of absolutely no value and is really only counterproductive to any genuine exposure. Those with so much to say about me are really only establishing that they have nothing to say about SoI and just-googlings recent post giving some info not that I can say that I bothered to read it or ever will is a very transparent attempt to redeem himself now. I am sure that it could go on and on for saying that but I wont be entering into it.
The only concern that zelig had was for himself and his friends to attempt to control what I am doing and to utilise any opposition to their own ends ie to recruit their own following. Since one cannot use names here then this is not a platform for the truth but simply think that there are two major disciples that left Siddha and carried on becoming gurus themselves and there are several aspiring gurus as well, I know of at least two that I have seen with my own eyes.
When someone comes here new you will get PMs from just-googling or one of their group telling you who is genuine and who is not and that they know this for an absolute fact. They will tell you that RR reads PMs and that one has to be very careful (ie-paranoid) about what they say. They are the only ones that you can trust. You will be discouraged from taking any action or being too critical, their agenda is to discredit Siddhaswarupananda but not the belief system (hence the reason why they always get uppity when issues of theology are raised). They will pretend to have a genuine affinity with you and do not come across as bad people. Note how they repost already made posts (classic troll tactic) and make detailed rebuttals to others posts that have very little substance except always referring to 'we' as if they are speaking for everyone here the 'silent majority' which inexperienced activist types think is good and intimidating but it isnt really. Notice how they were not here until there was controversy and information and then they cant keep away from the place. These are people that are well practiced in cult recruitment techniques and you can see it if you know the signs to look out for. Of course if you have been involved with a cult you will notice it from experience and probably have an eerie feeling when someone that cant even tell you their name starts acting so paternalistic although the false concern just-googling uses to justify this bullshit did not extend to contacting me at all. CRAP. I will also point out that you cant hope to hurt someone that has lost the belief and the person that they care about most in the world but it says a lot about the kind of person you must be that you tried to.
Followers of other gurus (which is where most who leave SIF end up) read here to get new recruits. It is appealing to them to have followers that have dirt on another guru, always has been since the ISKCON days, the whole faith runs on a mutal agreement of silence and complicity with corruption. Any man who was a disciple for 20 years was definitely involved in the sort of thing that they are criticising now, and to still be hanging about after all this time they have some related agenda. Think about how likely it would actually be that so many people suppossedly getting on with their lives just decided one day to google their old gurus name all in the same one month period? It is inconceivable. As someone who does associate widely with Vaishnavas I know how fast gossip travels and what the games are here, I have even met some of the people playing them. There is one branch of KC that recruits specifically through here because it is beneficial to the focus of their mission.
I said that the people I have met here are no better than the people that I was not at all impressed with in ASM and in many ways are far worse and I stand by that. I dont care what the people that I have criticised from ASM think about me otherwise I would not have done it and I certainly do not care what any of cult zelig think about me either. For all the sabre rattling MR said anyone could have their own site and noone wants it - I wonder why that is :wink: I know exactly what I am doing and I am the only one that needs to know I certainly dont owe just-googling/just-babbling anything whatsoever. What I will say is that I will be selling my writing which is nothing that a professional writer doesnt do. I am communicating about several options for the free exchange of information and to found a project that will be for helping people in a practical way. I do have options and I am not a matyr or a saint so I need to balance what works for me and the greater good.
Whatever I do regarding ASM/SIF will be whatever I can believe allows for me to live my life at the same time as wanting to contribute positively to the world and help others who want to come to spiritual life. I believe in truth and charity and enquiring minds needing to know and that Conspiracies Happen. I know that I wont be reading or writing here anymore. I would just like to say thanks to you Rick for acting on what you believe in enough to actually follow it through this forum meant a lot to me when I needed it to.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: September 13, 2007 07:01AM
Quote
cultreporter
... What I will say is that I will be selling my writing which is nothing that a professional writer doesnt do.
If you are planning on selling your writing, here is some constructive advice:
Use shorter sentences.
Use the comma to separate different clauses within a sentence.
THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK!
This is just some constructive criticism!
Shorter sentences are easier to understand. When a sentence has too many clauses, not separated by commas in appropriate places, it becomes hard to follow the stream of thought!
GOOD LUCK! and thanks for all the reporting!
:D
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: September 13, 2007 10:00PM
Okay, time for a poetic break, I reckon
For those who do not like my twisted sense of humour, feel free to scroll to the next post...!
This is my latest poem, "The Beach Bum"
dedicated to that sassy lassie - Dassi...
[u:9e2af5fc9c]THE BEACH BUM[/u:9e2af5fc9c]
We were slogging from door to door
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Promoting candidates Hoshijo and Moore
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Separated from the peacefulness of the ocean's roar
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Hitting the sidewalks, the streets, the hard cement
Saving the world with our Godly Government
And now they're sending their daughters off to war
To kill the enemy? To even the score?
While Kris is surfing at the beach
And meanwhile, ISKCON were chanting in the street
but, "we're holier than thou ... we just can't be beat!"
Believing that we were the holiest folk on the earth
Freeing ourselves from death and rebirth...
At the end of the day: one banana with yeast?
While Kris was enjoying a multi-course feast?
And, yet to us Krishna always remains out of reach?
While Kris is enjoying the waves at the beach.
So, "Who am I?" you may ask, this blasphemous scum...
Errrrr, sorry, can't say ... just another Beach Bum
And if Kris asks you for service, for money, or to preach...
Just tell him you're sorry,
you'll be surfing at the beach.
_________________
Four easy steps to enlightenment, by J. Googling:
1. Face piles of trials with smiles.
2. Keep as cool as you can.
3. Keep on thinking free.
4. Love God, especially the Fish Incarnation - more elusive than the Boar, and more slippery than the half-Lion. And real cool.
:D
For those who do not like my twisted sense of humour, feel free to scroll to the next post...!
This is my latest poem, "The Beach Bum"
dedicated to that sassy lassie - Dassi...
[u:9e2af5fc9c]THE BEACH BUM[/u:9e2af5fc9c]
We were slogging from door to door
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Promoting candidates Hoshijo and Moore
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Separated from the peacefulness of the ocean's roar
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Hitting the sidewalks, the streets, the hard cement
Saving the world with our Godly Government
And now they're sending their daughters off to war
To kill the enemy? To even the score?
While Kris is surfing at the beach
And meanwhile, ISKCON were chanting in the street
but, "we're holier than thou ... we just can't be beat!"
Believing that we were the holiest folk on the earth
Freeing ourselves from death and rebirth...
At the end of the day: one banana with yeast?
While Kris was enjoying a multi-course feast?
And, yet to us Krishna always remains out of reach?
While Kris is enjoying the waves at the beach.
So, "Who am I?" you may ask, this blasphemous scum...
Errrrr, sorry, can't say ... just another Beach Bum
And if Kris asks you for service, for money, or to preach...
Just tell him you're sorry,
you'll be surfing at the beach.
_________________
Four easy steps to enlightenment, by J. Googling:
1. Face piles of trials with smiles.
2. Keep as cool as you can.
3. Keep on thinking free.
4. Love God, especially the Fish Incarnation - more elusive than the Boar, and more slippery than the half-Lion. And real cool.
:D
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
atheist
()
Date: September 14, 2007 05:45AM
Quote
just-googling
Siddhaswarupananda did encourage martial arts and boxing among his followers and disciples.
However, methinks that fasting and vegetarianism
do not mix with heavyweight boxing
Sorry about this. I just spotted this quote on Page 113.
Siddha devotee, and Honolulu radio talk show host, Hesh Goldstein teaches a type of martial arts called "Wing Chun."
He is even mentioned in the Wikipedia article about "Wing Chun"
[en.wikipedia.org]
Does the Science of Identity Foundation have a group of "tough people" or enforcers? Is there any stockpiling of arms?
Some of us were talking the other day about Hesh and the martial arts and the word "militia" came up. Any comments?
I have seen notices in Honolulu newspapers, within the past few years that have Hesh teaching martial arts to women.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
quotesman
()
Date: September 14, 2007 04:18PM
Quote
just-googling
Okay, time for a poetic break, I reckon
For those who do not like my twisted sense of humour, feel free to scroll to the next post...!
This is my latest poem, "The Beach Bum"
dedicated to that sassy lassie - Dassi...
[u:5f0162b111]THE BEACH BUM[/u:5f0162b111]
We were slogging from door to door
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Promoting candidates Hoshijo and Moore
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Separated from the peacefulness of the ocean's roar
While Kris was surfing at the beach
Hitting the sidewalks, the streets, the hard cement
Saving the world with our Godly Government
And now they're sending their daughters off to war
To kill the enemy? To even the score?
While Kris is surfing at the beach
And meanwhile, ISKCON were chanting in the street
but, "we're holier than thou ... we just can't be beat!"
Believing that we were the holiest folk on the earth
Freeing ourselves from death and rebirth...
At the end of the day: one banana with yeast?
While Kris was enjoying a multi-course feast?
And, yet to us Krishna always remains out of reach?
While Kris is enjoying the waves at the beach.
So, "Who am I?" you may ask, this blasphemous scum...
Errrrr, sorry, can't say ... just another Beach Bum
And if Kris asks you for service, for money, or to preach...
Just tell him you're sorry,
you'll be surfing at the beach.
_________________
Four easy steps to enlightenment, by J. Googling:
1. Face piles of trials with smiles.
2. Keep as cool as you can.
3. Keep on thinking free.
4. Love God, especially the Fish Incarnation - more elusive than the Boar, and more slippery than the half-Lion. And real cool.
:D
I was not going to post again but googlings poem brought me back. I am LOL.
Hey googling were you in on the Christmas day cheer. The time fearless leader had us go door to door while the lecture 'Gift Wrapped Emptiness" was being broadcast all over Hawaii?
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 14, 2007 08:52PM
To whom it may concern:
I don't read any private messaging other than those private messages that are sent to me.
If anyone abuses the private messaging system for the purpose of harassment, let me know.
I don't read any private messaging other than those private messages that are sent to me.
If anyone abuses the private messaging system for the purpose of harassment, let me know.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: September 14, 2007 08:55PM
Hi quotesman, glad to see you back! No, I missed out on the Christmas cheer event (thank goodness) ... I must have split the scene by then. I do remember the big kirtans where they would chant "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" on Christmas day. Jesus! Those door-to-door compaigns just make me shudder now... hard to believe that so many people got sucked into doing that!
:wink:
Hi, Atheist, regarding Hesh: yes, he was very muscular, fit, strong, and healthy 20 years ago (and probably still is). Was a good specimen to have working at the Healthy's Food Store! Was always into martial arts even back then. What struck me most about Hesh was that he was always very positive, outgoing, and always seemed to be in a happy mood with a smile for everyone... unlike many of the other devotees who were often on a bummer due to financial problems, marriage problems, or just in a hyper-spiritual state of mind (focusing on "the material world is a place of misery" "death" etc)...
There were a couple of heavyweight people in the cult that I knew of. Yes, some would carry hand-guns for their bodyguard patrols. I personally saw about half a dozen people who would carry hand-guns.
Stockpiling weapons: No, I never saw this 20 to 30 years ago. It was mostly hand-guns, and I think one guy had a rifle. (Of course, things could have changed over the years.) At that time, there was nothing like the bird flu paranoia that seems to be prevalent in Australia, as reported by others on this forum. Sure, there was the nuclear war threat in the early days, but by the 1980s this was certainly not the focus of the group, and there would be occasional mention of this in Sid's lectures, mentioning how this world is a temporary place of misery, etc.
Also, it is my impression that there is no centralized compound, farm, or community on Oahu these days. Maybe the farm on the Big Island would act as their compound during the predicted catastrophic events following bird flu annihilation. It's anyone's guess if this farm is becoming the next "Branch Dividians" compound, but somehow I doubt it... But again, things may have changed since I split the scene about 20 years ago. (Remember, the Koresh fanatics were stockpiling automatic machine guns and even grenades!)
Another point regarding Hesh, on fast days he would wake up at midnight so he could eat food with grain products!!! This was probably against the rules, as the fast was probably supposed to last until sunrise on the following morning!!! He was (and probably still is?) a pleasant and stable individual... but again, things have changed over the last 20 years.
:)
:wink:
Hi, Atheist, regarding Hesh: yes, he was very muscular, fit, strong, and healthy 20 years ago (and probably still is). Was a good specimen to have working at the Healthy's Food Store! Was always into martial arts even back then. What struck me most about Hesh was that he was always very positive, outgoing, and always seemed to be in a happy mood with a smile for everyone... unlike many of the other devotees who were often on a bummer due to financial problems, marriage problems, or just in a hyper-spiritual state of mind (focusing on "the material world is a place of misery" "death" etc)...
There were a couple of heavyweight people in the cult that I knew of. Yes, some would carry hand-guns for their bodyguard patrols. I personally saw about half a dozen people who would carry hand-guns.
Stockpiling weapons: No, I never saw this 20 to 30 years ago. It was mostly hand-guns, and I think one guy had a rifle. (Of course, things could have changed over the years.) At that time, there was nothing like the bird flu paranoia that seems to be prevalent in Australia, as reported by others on this forum. Sure, there was the nuclear war threat in the early days, but by the 1980s this was certainly not the focus of the group, and there would be occasional mention of this in Sid's lectures, mentioning how this world is a temporary place of misery, etc.
Also, it is my impression that there is no centralized compound, farm, or community on Oahu these days. Maybe the farm on the Big Island would act as their compound during the predicted catastrophic events following bird flu annihilation. It's anyone's guess if this farm is becoming the next "Branch Dividians" compound, but somehow I doubt it... But again, things may have changed since I split the scene about 20 years ago. (Remember, the Koresh fanatics were stockpiling automatic machine guns and even grenades!)
Another point regarding Hesh, on fast days he would wake up at midnight so he could eat food with grain products!!! This was probably against the rules, as the fast was probably supposed to last until sunrise on the following morning!!! He was (and probably still is?) a pleasant and stable individual... but again, things have changed over the last 20 years.
:)
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: September 14, 2007 09:31PM
Yo, Quotesman, laughing is indeed good for the soul...
While we're in a laughing mood, how about this one:
What does Siddha have in common with the Blues Brothers?
They are both on a mission from God.[/color:14a6a53880]
:lol:
In case you didn't see this from the other website:
How many devotees does it take to change a light bulb?
Three. One to put the lightbulb in and two to type up the report to Srila Prabhupad.[/color:14a6a53880]
:lol:
[Tuco says, "Some days you're the dog. Some days you're the fire hydrant."][/size:14a6a53880][/color:14a6a53880]
While we're in a laughing mood, how about this one:
What does Siddha have in common with the Blues Brothers?
They are both on a mission from God.[/color:14a6a53880]
:lol:
In case you didn't see this from the other website:
How many devotees does it take to change a light bulb?
Three. One to put the lightbulb in and two to type up the report to Srila Prabhupad.[/color:14a6a53880]
:lol:
[Tuco says, "Some days you're the dog. Some days you're the fire hydrant."][/size:14a6a53880][/color:14a6a53880]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
quotesman
()
Date: September 14, 2007 11:15PM
Quote
just-googling
Yo, Quotesman, laughing is indeed good for the soul...
While we're in a laughing mood, how about this one:
What does Siddha have in common with the Blues Brothers?
They are both on a mission from God.[/color:86c37fa5d0]
:lol:
In case you didn't see this from the other website:
How many devotees does it take to change a light bulb?
Three. One to put the lightbulb in and two to type up the report to Srila Prabhupad. [/color:86c37fa5d0]
:lol:
[Tuco says, "Some days you're the dog. Some days you're the fire hydrant."][/size:86c37fa5d0][/color:86c37fa5d0]
I am sorry to have to correct you googling but it actually takes 5 people to screw in a lightbulb. One to put the lightbulb in, two to make sure the 25 pages of policy explaining the proper procedure for screwing it in without making any offenses is followed and two to type up the report. :P
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
Dassi
()
Date: September 15, 2007 05:27AM
Hey quotesman,
Nice to have you back!
Hey Googs!
That poem is awesome!
Thanks.
Nice to laugh again!
They say a lack of a sense of humor is one of the first signs of insanity.
You weren't thought "serious" enough if you joked around --- of course unless you were laughing with Sid while he humiliated someone or was putting down something....
or pointing out the error in everyone elses (but his own) ways...
Nice to have you back!
Hey Googs!
That poem is awesome!
Thanks.
Nice to laugh again!
They say a lack of a sense of humor is one of the first signs of insanity.
You weren't thought "serious" enough if you joked around --- of course unless you were laughing with Sid while he humiliated someone or was putting down something....
or pointing out the error in everyone elses (but his own) ways...
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.