I can testify that he used to make everyone but him wear surgical masks, I was at lectures in his house while we all wore masks... this was in Sedona, Arizona circa 1988.

I last saw him in Australia in 93 or 94, it was outside, I don't think anyone had masks... most likely because it looks really bad in public.

Makes sense Rama, Ash never saw him inside. What is your pov about him being still living? When was the last time that you saw him? Is it a possibilty that he is not sane/demented and not in control of SoI? There are some that think it possible that he has HIV/AIDs or a similar disease even I think it may be a possibility given recent photos - would appreciate your expertise on this.

I don't KNOW, since I have not been involved, although I was in hawaii about 4 years ago and my family went to see him, I was invited on the condition that I was not a "drug addict". (I ended up at the skate park... )

My guess is that he is alive and that it is business as usual, him being alive is the only reason you get the cluster of followers "on site", the only reason they have quarantines, which were all in full effect 4 years ago.

He does look like an animated cadaver, and one could theorize that there is some type of a "Weekend at Bernie's" situation going on.

I think he is just old and harsh, and much of his appearance and health are manifestations of his dominating and parasitic ways.
He has played into all of it himself, he WANTS to be weak and frail, he wants to be hyper sensitive, so he can use his followers as a life support system and so he can disseminate guilt, responsibility and blame onto them.

He is a PARASITE, and like all good parasites, he attaches himself in as many ways as he can, and just starts feeding.

It is energetic (the feeding), and he is completely a creature of it. he is not a whole person, he has nothing unique of his own.
If all were stripped away, you would see the frail, bony, decrepit and pathetic remnant... like the naked Mr. Burns from the Simpsons, or like the remains of Anakin Skywalker beneath the ruthless tyrant Darth Vader.

How else would the cryogenically frozen reanimated head of David Rockefeller look as it barks orders for population reduction and power consolidation 4, 672 years from now... yeah, pretty bad... a lot like Chris Butler.

I absolutely think he is still running it... with the help of some seriously sh**ty people.

I really want to say Mark Fergusson, but I guess I shouldn't.

Oh yeah, people like Tim Anthony... the worst.

Totally devoid of any true value to your selves, you are the soulless minions of just another mafia. Totally hollow and worthless f**ks.

Mark Fergusson is CEO of "Down to Earth Natural Foods and Lifestyle." At least that is how he labels himself in a letter to the editor of the Honolulu Advertiser 07/20/07:

[the.honoluluadvertiser.com]

You can contact him at:

[www.downtoearth.org]

There was a time when he was CEO of "Healthy's Inc," which is the parent company of the Down to Earth Stores.

I'd say that Mr. Fergusson is still involved with the cult and is probably in contact with Mr. Butler.

Thanks for the links, there.

I do agree with old Maha (a.k.a. Mark) that GMO's should be labeled, I really like the line "On this point, we should be the ones in control, not government."

Implying, I presume, that it is usually best to have the Government in control... or that the desires of the people are a phenomenon unrelated to the Government. (this is sadly reality now, we all seem to love it.)

Well, he does have someone who he calls MASTER, so I guess for him that running your own life is a novel idea.


"They manufacture our delusion, that you and me participate...
Meaningfully in the process, of running our own lives." - Propagandhi

If anyone is interested, there is someone who represents massive change in America in this regard, a guy named Ron Paul.
(personal liberty and freedom vs. the increasingly intrusive and predatory government... anyone read the Patriot Act? written BEFORE 9/11, by the way.)

.

"I'd say that Mr. Fergusson is still involved with the cult and is probably in contact with Mr. Butler."

Yes, I have no doubts, his other name is Mahabhagavat Das, I knew him through the circles of the SOIers on Maui and also through Down To Earth.

The C.E.O. of D.T.E. is not gonna be some freakin' Karmi.

What is also funny about that is that a kiwi saying "karmi" and an American saying "Commie" sounds identical.

Down To Earth's newest policy... NO COMMIE'S! (also no HOMOSEXUALS, SMOKERS, DRUG ADDICTS or FLIRTATIOUS EMPLOYEES, per the employment application.)

to see kiwi's saying stuff, watch "flight of the conchords", mate.

As far as I can tell all of the individuals central in SoI are older, around mid-50s with the minor exception of a few of the golden oldies kids such as Michael Harvey running Noni (son of Linda Harvey, board member of SIF and operator/owner of the Sacrememnto Meditation Centre).

Considering though that the older generation has deprived their children of an education and life experience how are these businesses and other enterprises going to run in say about ten years time?

The third generation that are kids now are going to be even worse off being educated by the uneducated and coming in without any relationship to guru whatsoever so it is unlikely that they will even have the belief in what they are doing that the elders purport to have.

Before Krishna Consciousness was revived with Chaitanya about 500 years ago the Vedic philosophy had become obscure and Buddhism was the preferred belief system. Now despite all the talk about spreading KC around the world in the 70s Buddhism is definitely more prevalent and the KC religion is dying out again.

I just found out this week that the second generation of ISKCON opened their Sydney temple in a renovated mausoleum which just goes to show how relevant the beliefs are to them nowadays, if indeed they were well educated in them in the first place.

Science of Identity reminds me of The Matrix (also the movie The Village which I couldnt sit through when it first came out but it was worth it the 2nd time [www.imdb.com])

Quote

Today popular movies like “The Matrix” and “Fight Club” touch on the ancient philosophical issues described in the ancient Vedas. In “The Matrix”, Neo’s life was not as he thought. He finds out that his world is simulated and is all part of computer intelligence that has taken over the world and enslaved humankind. Of course, our world is not part of an elaborate computer intelligence, but this is a nice analogy of our real situation.

[preaching.krishna.org]

"Nice analogy" -

Quote

One of the movies mentioned most often in a murder defense in recent years has beenThe Matrix, released in 1999 and starring Keanu Reeves (with two sequels) as "Neo." He finds himself in an alternate reality, aware that he once was "unconscious" in a computer-generated virtual reality and killers are chasing him.

Many people believe that Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, the 1999 Columbine High School killers, were inspired by it, although unlike some, they did not live to tell.

One-half of the beltway Sniper team from 2002, Lee Boyd Malvo, was devoted to the movie. In jail he made many jottings, including a plea that people should free themselves from the Matrix. He told the FBI to watch the film, states Mark Shone in the Boston Globe, if they hoped to understand how his mind worked.

In San Francisco, Vadim Mieseges, 27, killed and dismembered his landlady, and in his defense he said that he'd been "sucked" into the Matrix.

A Swedish exchange student, he confessed to skinning his victim and dumping her torso into a dumpster because he sensed "evil vibes" from her. Since he'd already been diagnosed with a mental illness, the case did not get to trial. His insanity plea was accepted.

In Ohio, Tonda Lynn Ansley also attacked her landlady on this premise, but was certain she had not really done so: it was only a dream. She had targeted three others as well, to free herself from their mind control. Her insanity plea, too, was accepted.

The Boston Globe ran a list of people in 2003 who had claimed that The Matrix had inspired them to kill.

[www.crimelibrary.com]

Surely there can be other factors, as is discussed in the above article in a single case not listed in the quote.

Quote

According to several defendants and their attorneys, it seems that the very philosophy of "The Matrix" may have somehow interacted with the psychology of certain mentally ill individuals, in such a way as to cause them to commit their crimes. These individuals did not copy "The Matrix"; instead, they seem simply to have believed the philosophies espoused in the movie to be true.

The basic conceit of "The Matrix" is that reality is merely a computer-generated illusion. In the world of "The Matrix," starting from birth, all human beings--except those who have been freed--experience only a virtual reality. In the actual reality--to which they themselves have no access--they are immobile and unconscious, being fed images of the virtual world that have been created by malevolent computer programs.

Put another way, humans in the matrix world are like brains in a vat unable to perceive the vat they are in--until and unless, like Neo and other "Matrix" characters, they are lucky enough to get an opportunity escape into a far grittier actual reality. Everything humans perceive, while they are still in the grip of the Matrix, is illusory.

The fact that the philosophy of "The Matrix" has become part of pop culture does not distinguish it from the more time-tested philosophies whose First Amendment status we would never question. Surely the mere fact of an idea's wild popularity cannot affect its First Amendment status--for speakers have a right to reach, and convince, their listeners.[/color:995977b9b8]

[www.counterpunch.org]

If I was to teach anyone about the reality of SoI and similar cults I would simply get them to watch The Matrix and ask them can you accept this as real? Then dont waste your time.

This is big, and scary, news. Mike Gabbard wants to become a Democrat.

Currently he is a Republican Hawaii State Senator. The Republicans are a tiny minority in both houses of the state legislature. That's got to be really limiting Mike Gabbard and his (and Chris Butler's) agenda.

Mike would like to be a nationally and internationally known and recognized anti gay and anti abortion leader. He has already participated in anti gay crusades in Australia. He was involved in the Vermont Civil Unions issue a few years ago. He's met with national anti gay leaders. And, of course, there is his very successful anti gay organizing and crusading in Hawaii.

Gabbard is very unusual, in that other demagogues and extremists who have used the gay equal rights issue to organize around, spread hate and frighten people, such as Lon Mabon in Oregon and Lyndon LaRouche in California, have not been successful in getting elected to public office.

This is also worrisome because you would think that Mike Gabbard would have a hard time supporting the Democratic Party of Hawaii Platform. You can see the platform at:

[www.hawaiidemocrats.org]

The Democratic Party of Hawaii platform specifically includes planks that support equal rights and fair treatment of lesbians, gays, transgenders, etc. There is also a plank that supports a woman's right to choose in reproductive healthcare matters.

Adherence to the Democratic Party of Hawaii platform is not strictly enforced.

My own feeling is that the Democratic Party represents the only hope for the State of Hawaii and for our country. The Republican Party is hopelessly mired in conservative religious, neocon and libertarian weirdness. The Republican Party appears to be promoting theocracy for the U.S.

I strongly support separation of church and state.

If you would like to read the article in today's 08/21/07 Honolulu Advertiser about Mike Gabbard thinking of becoming a Democrat, see:

[www.honoluluadvertiser.com]