That is just because they have so much to hide. Rick Reed working under the instructions of Chris Butler went to work in the Prosectors Department, later using information that had illegally obtained from this position to slander a political opponent which backfired when he was exposed as being an SoI puppet by his ex-wife.

The recent Eulogy delivered by Rick Reed at Chuck Marsland's funeral. Rick Reed (aka Krsna das) is a disciple of Jagad Guru Siddhaswarup Ananda. Reed has always skirted the issue, but check out his admission at the end of his speech.

Quote

"...In our conversations over the years it was obvious that Chuck had
experienced a remarkable transition from one who felt the burden of
needing to avenge his son's death personally, to allowing justice to
be served within the criminal justice system, to achieving the peace
that comes with the understanding that there is a higher power—a
Supreme Being who is unconditionally loving yet not about to allow
those who harm innocent people to go unpunished.

Chuck knew that I had great respect for [u:0238f06b74]my spiritual teacher, Jagad
Guru Siddhaswarup Ananda[/u:0238f06b74], and, shortly after he became Prosecuting
Attorney, Chuck asked me to arrange a meeting between the two men.
They met only once and never conversed again, but Chuck told me he
came away from that meeting with a newfound peace. He said he left
that meeting confident that although Chuckers had experienced the
death of his body, the person Chuck knew and loved as his son had not
ceased to exist and was in good hands.

This understanding is a universal truth that has been taught through
the ages by sages and spiritual teachers of all religious persuasions.

I know that Polly and all of us who had the pleasure of knowing Chuck
can find solace in the knowledge that although his body has worn out,
and he has moved on, the person we knew and loved as Chuck Marsland
continues to exist and is in good hands."

SoI doesnt care how they get into power, even with their militant homophobia the desire is to simply get power period. Butler run candidates have run simultaneously in oppossing parties with Wayne Nisiki being one of the most controversial and reviled members of his party's history for unprecedented endorsement of a candidate for the opposition - Rick Reed, for whom Mike Gabbard was working at the time. Rick Reed also used his position in the prosecutors department to direct blame for organised crime onto an alledged Mafia figure for which Butler feared retaliation since it was the cult, not any concern for public safety or even the prosecutors office that was perptuating these allegations.

Following the near exposure in New Zealand with law enforcement investigations against the cult Butler began ordering his followers to take up policing as a career. The cult has infiltrated over the past 30 years every level of Hawaiian government from local council to Senator and the Board of Education as well as forming a multitude of lobbying groups and media enterprises. In perspective Scientology was able to create havoc by infiltrating just the tax division of the Justice Department - imagine what can be done with a senator. If anyone is the father of organised crime in Hawaii it is Chris Butler, and not the man they accussed, although maybe Godhead of organised crime would be more appropriate.

This was some of Z's earliest comments after he said he has answers to all the questions:

Quote

The basic philosophy was universal and attractive.

I don't hold any grudges

They were great guys.

I empowered [Siddha] with my own belief

We volunteered to check our common sense at the door and let ourselves be exploited.

We had the disease “guruitis” (no longer taking responsibility for ourselves)

I made the choice to follow. I learned a lot and am grateful for the experiences.

I believe people should live and let live and be free to join Siddha or anyone else.

Actually this was an example of [siddha's] rebellious, "I don't give a sh*t about what anyone thinks" attitude. Very appealing.

There were no "secret" teachings any more than there was a real organization to join. The secrets were always of a practical nature to keep Siddha's support system going. No orders of violence or suicide. No thugs beating up wayward diciples.

One minute they were 'great' and the next they were dispicable. He couldn't stick to an opinion that was his own.

Quote

What if I just realized that I am making major life decisions based on a man who is delusional, paranoid, and phobic no matter [b:6df06e7787]how kind and gentle or humble[/b:6df06e7787] he appears?

Deny this, deny that. You feel bad for that sleep deprived cook that just got fired because the tofu wasn’t cooked right. [b:6df06e7787]Someone else gets yelled at[/b:6df06e7787] for suggesting that Siddha put some footnotes and to quote references at the end of his books.

There was a grandiose feeling in the group that we had a superior spiritual understanding. All of his lectures are[b:6df06e7787] filled with mocking and sarcasm[/b:6df06e7787], building up “straw men” to knock them down.

Now regarding the all the Gabbards he was completely defensive. During his involvement on this thread M.G was a current candidate for senator in Hawaii so it would have been of benefit if while SIF was dragged through the mud Gabbard was left out.

Quote

You see a political candidate in a fake marriage ordered by Siddha so a family can be pictured on a brochure.*

*(NOT Mike Gabbard who was really a great guy with a loving wife when I knew him).

What are they DOING that is hurting or serving the constituency?

If Siddha ordered her to go off to war, then it's his own hipocracy. If she allowed herself to go off to war on his orders for political motivations, which I doubt, then she is an idiot. (Z on Tulsi)

In any case, I have no issue with her going to Iraq. That's her business and choice. So is the family's religion. Besides there were Kshatrias (warriors) in Krishna's time. No one really knows if Siddha is advising them or not and who cares.

When asked about the school in Hawaii Z did not even remember until someone else of the day confirmed it at which point he chimed in with very intimate details of the school. If we did not accept his absolute word on Gabbard (faulty memory mixed with unbelievable statments - such as no chanting in the schools - which he verified was unture) he then launched into a two week argument or distraction with an attack on Cara. This is why he had to go. When Cara [b:6df06e7787]questioned[/b:6df06e7787] the children's name he said that she was using this as "proof" which was not a fact.

When Zelig's testimony was in question, he then used his own testimony to prove that the cult is 'damaging', which in turn verified his story. A tactic worthy of Siddha himself. How stupid does he think people are?

Now according to Gabbard's resume he was working in American Samoa in 1983 and then moved to Hawaii where Gabbard became the head master of the devotee school which started in July. It was registered in August. The school closed in 87. Z left in 84. So if Z is correct that Gabbard's resume was not MISLEADING (Yeah right) then Z only ever knew Gabbard as the headmaster of the school. This casts strong doubts on his forgetting a school ever existed. So he couldn't be trusted to tell us the truth which was his supposed purpose here.

Rama says he remembers a school in Samoa and he woud have been very young at the time. Someone on this thread said they attended the Samoa school which was confirmed by someone else and it was also confirmed in private by someone who was not even in Hawaii at the time. Our 70-80s authority Z (who is above question) could not tell us if it even existed.

What we also know is that SIF doesn't trust just anybody to maintain their secrecy so Gabbard would have needed to be a disciple for quite some time. He was apparently working at American Samoa college from 78-83 when infact he was running a devotee school so his resume is untrustworthy. A.S. is also about 20 years behind the times when it comes to the internet and there isn't even a business registration search so it appears to be impossible to even verify if he even lived in there at the time via the internet as nothing comes up besides Gabbard's word.

So we know that he would have needed to be in the cult for a sizable amount of time before parents would send their children offshore to be taught by the Gabbard's. The only time that Gabbard had this time to get close to the cult in his resume was in 1977 when he worked in Siddha's home town before returning to AS. Prior to this he was in California in 71 and has not explained where he was from '66 to '70. Was there other disciples who went to AS to assist Gabbard with the devotee kids?

I still question the Gabbard's kids vaishnava names. Are they all their legal names? SIF-born children are sometimes given legal hindu names and others are given legal western names but are still known within the cult by hindu names from birth. I do not however know of kids who had their legal names change by their parents upon joining the cult. So we would like to know this about his oldest boys Naryana and Bhakti. Bhakti could possibly have a police record to see if this is legal.

There has been much focus on Mike Gabbard and his connection to SIF but who else in SIF is involved in politics. Andy Smith was appointed as Gov. Lingle's W. Hawaiian liason. The senior policy advisor to Lingle contributed the same amount as Andy to Gabbard ($3000), is named Linda Smith and is old enough to be his mother. I can't find details of Andy's family so perhaps not. Her husband ran for senator in the 13th district in Hawaii (he lost) and also contributed about $3000 to Gabbard. The person who took over Gabbard's position prior to senator also contributed to his campaign.

Is Andrew Mertz contributed to Gabbard and is the vice president of the Honolulu veg society and is involved in the 17th district in Hawaii. Is he SIF?

The connection between SIF and ISKCON is also interesting. Malika Butler who came on this thread looking for her father Bruce was named on the documents of those who sued ISKCON.

-----------

Mike Hinchey (AKA Maha Mantra das) $1000 to Gabbard

Quote

It is obvious that the charges made by the gay activists are motivated out of hate for Carol Gabbard and not out of any concern for supposed campaign spending violations.

Mike Hinchey

[the.honoluluadvertiser.com]

Josh Harvey (Carmichael) paid $4000 to Gabbard's campaign

Josh "Oh My Gosh"

www.ohmygoshjosh.com

This is another hindu religious cult business in California. Related to Linda (Uddhava dasi) Harvey and Michael (Gopal das) Harvey (Healing Noni company)

It also sells Devin (Dharma das) Bull and Kunti dasi Bull's Twisterz on his site.


Ellen C Abrams contributed $2000

Confirmed student of chris Butler

A Breathe Easy Hawaii sales rep (Gabbard business affiliate)

So on top of the $93335 of the previous total we can add $10840 from the last page.

$104175

This is around one third of the contributions to Gabbard are confirmed SIF with a large number of unconfirmed so far. I haven't finished yet.




Jules suggested that Jesse and Joyce Spencer of a multi-million dollar development company are somehow related to 70s pro-surfer Ted Spencer (AKA KC or Krishna Chaitanya das) and wife Janmastami (dasi) Spencer. They contributed $8000 to the Gabbard campaign is there a way to confirm this connection.

Frederrick K Sands of Sacramento Hawaii and Suzanne Sands of Sacramento California gave $8000.

There is no Sacramento Hawaii of course but who are these two and what do they do?

Google any of Chris' names and find numerous sites, recently added to the web in a obvious attempt to divert people away from this forum.

None of these mention politics, homos, support of the war, germ phobia, toenail eating, child brides, wife beating, guns and bead bags, etc.; no surprise there.
Just nice, lovey-dovey talk about peace, harmony, tolerance, and and mother nature.
www.jagadgurusiddhaswarupanandaparamahamsa.com/

www.jagad-guru-chris-butler.com/

www.jagadgurusiddhaswarupananda.org/

www.jagad-guru-chris-butler.com

www.scienceofidentityfoundation.org/

Quote

On relationships with each other and the environment:
"Most people are not concerned about the problems we are creating on earth. Our whole attitude towards this planet is that it is disposable. Everyone thinks that they can take anything they want, exploit it, and then conveniently throw it away. So many things have become disposable " not only diapers, towels, plates and spoons " but babies, wives, husbands and old people too."
- Jagad Guru Chris Butler (Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa)
© 2007 Science of Identity Foundation

On yogis:
"The yogi’s interest is inner peace and self-realization and social harmony."
- Jagad Guru Chris Butler (Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa)
© 2007 Science of Identity Foundation

"Hatred and conflict are often rooted in differences between people of different races and religions. We all need to respect people of different races as well as people of different faiths and religions. We need to unite by recognizing our common desire and need for a harmonious society—a society in which we and our children and families and friends and communities can all live our lives in peace and harmony. Regardless of our race or religion, we all want and need such social harmony."
- Jagad Guru Chris Butler (Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa)
© 2007 Science of Identity Foundation

The sites are purely to disrupt anti-SIF ratings but it makes them look stupid which is kinda what we were going for too.

Suzanne Sands is a devotee of Butler and she argued in Tusta Krisha das's SIF protest against the depiction of Krishan in the Xena Warrior Princess episode "The Way":

Quote

784|Suzanne Sands
|02:22:03 3/07/99|

gauranga@goldenwave.com|Ojai, CA|USA||

Slander - 1. defamation: calumny (a false and malicious statement designed to injure a reputation).<P>You have completely slandered God, the Supreme Person otherwise known as Krishna, by creating and airing the episode of Xena entitled "The Way." I am very much aggrieved and not only urge you but beg you to never air this episode again.<P>You've taken a real personality and portrayed him and his teachings not only falsely but offensively. Krishna is real and exists in the lives of millions of devotees around the world. He exists in the hearts of every living being. [b:72e68ca375]There are volumes and volumes of bonafide scriptures that clearly describe him and his past times and bonafide living spiritual masters coming in an unbroken disciplic line of self-realized souls going all the way back to Krishna himself[/b:72e68ca375]. You can not make up stories about about the Supreme Person that are not true. On a smaller scale, what if it was done to you? Would you sit quietly as you were being slandered and millions of people were being given an incorrect impression about who you really were and what your relationship was with those whom you loved? This is the Supreme Lord we are talking about here! Please stop. You have no right and you are hurting not only yourself but millions of people whether you realize it or not. We won't stop fighting for the one we love and all we are asking is that you do not ever use Krishna as one of your fictional characters and you never re-air that espisode again. Thank you.

[www.hindunet.org]

So I can add her contribution to the Gabbard money along with Fredrick Sands from the zip code in Sacramento and again in the 2000 election they both paid $1000 to Gabbard from the same zip code in Ojai.

[www.newsmeat.com]

Total= $112175

[b:72e68ca375]
Gauranga Meditation Centre,[/b:72e68ca375] Perth, Western Australia - Mantra Meditation for Sel
The Gauranga Meditation Centre (Perth, Western Australia) is dedicated to teaching meditation as it is. All classes and courses are free of any charge or obligation. This bonafide method of meditation is very easily performed and guarantees the practitio

[innerself.com]

08 93843595

Address: SWANBOURNE WA, 6010

Yoga and meditation Centre
[b:72e68ca375]Gauranga Meditation Centre[/b:72e68ca375] Avalon Learn the ancient method of sound meditation free on Wednesdays 9918 3458.
Phone: 02 9918 3458 or 02 9918 8453
Email: cowell@netspace.com.au

[www.livingnow.com.au]

I saw that a while back, and I don't think I've ever seen anything so stupid.

Slander - 1. defamation: calumny (a false and malicious statement designed to injure a reputation).
General message to Hollywood:
(substitute whichever deity you prefer)

Quote

You have completely slandered Satan, the Supreme Person otherwise known as the Devil, by creating and airing movies such as The Exorcist, The Omen, The Firm, Dracula, Constantine, Hellboy, etc., etc." I am very much aggrieved and not only urge you but beg you to never air them again.
You've taken a real personality and portrayed him and his teachings not only falsely but offensively. Satan is real and exists in the lives of millions of devotees around the world. He exists in the hearts of every living being. There are volumes and volumes of bonafide scriptures that clearly describe him and his past times and bonafide living spiritual masters coming in an unbroken disciplic line of self-realized souls going all the way back to Satan himself. You can not make up stories about about the Supreme Prince of Darkness that are not true.
On a smaller scale, what if it was done to you? Would you sit quietly as you were being slandered and millions of people were being given an incorrect impression about who you really were and what your relationship was with those whom you loved?
This is the Supreme Lord of Darkness we are talking about here! Please stop. You have no right and you are hurting not only yourself but millions of people whether you realize it or not.
We won't stop fighting for the one we love and all we are asking is that you do not ever use Satan as one of your fictional characters and you never re-air these kind of movies again. Thank you.

What were devotees doing watching Zena? I thought they weren't allowed to watch popular media.

Tusta and others protesting said they had never even watched the show. Butler watches movies and tells people what not to watch even though his followers are not supposed to be watching movies or tv. I remember he had a real issue with Fat Bastard on Austin Powers and there was a ban against his followers watching it.

Funnily on the Hindu site "Xena" protest guest book, posted a few pages back, it was 90% supporters of the show with so many saying it had given them a bad impression of the entire hindu religion. It's amazing how a small group like SIF can ruin the reputation of the traditional culture they claim to represent. On the list of groups who were protestors of the show over half were SIF organisations so basically it was just them and a couple of groups they could manage to incite.

It is extremely hypocritical that although the WVA protested against Madonna a few of Science of Identity sites actually use Madonna's celebrity status to promote vegetarianism.


This story of Mallika Butler is so sad. Before her first birthday she was abandoned by her mother in a Gurukula school. She later married one of the largest distributors of Harley Davidsons and still lives in Virginia. She started the following business and at 2005 was the time she left a message on this thread:

Mallika Butler-De Haven, owner of JumpStart My Life, capitalizes upon her personal and professional experiences and her passion to see young women succeed. Her professional history includes 13 years of sales experience and coaching sales and leadership teams. Her personal experience is similar to the girls she works with. Raised in a dysfunctional family system, she was abandoned by her mother at the age of eight months and she doesn’t know her father. She endured 14 years of abuse in a surrogate family environment before running away and surviving on the streets for two years. Despite her background and intimidating circumstances, she was able to overcome the odds. She received her education and worked her way to independence. Mallika always dreamed of working with young woman who, similar to her, were at a disadvantage to succeed in society. In 2000, she finally realized her dream and left the business world to achieve her goal. For five years she has been coaching at-risk youth, specifically young women, on how to become contributing members of society.

[jumpstartmylife.com]

This is the documents of the kids who sued ISKCON:

[72.14.209.104]

Quote

You have completely slandered Satan, the Supreme Person otherwise known as the Devil, by creating and airing movies such as The Exorcist, The Omen, The Firm, Dracula, Constantine, Hellboy, etc., etc." I am very much aggrieved and not only urge you but beg you to never air them again.

:lol: Reminds me of a saying I heard once - what's right is not always popular and what's popular is not always right.

Krishna is suppossed to incarnate at times when mankind is at a low point in religious practices. Hope Sid and friends slow down by then otherwise when he does show up specific to time and place as foretold - probably as a gossip blogger or in a boy band they will be protesting that it cant really be him :o Actually we are about due for an incarnation - maybe the WVA denied him an ability to represent Gawd permit?? :lol:

Imagine if SoI was around 500 years ago they would have been chasing Lord Chaitanya down the street waving protest signs shouting about how Krishna had never initiated the Sankirtan movement before.

Now Sid takes issue with fat bastards as well? All those 70s references and swinging music must have reminded him of a bad acid trip - not unlike the designer of the *cough* fashion worn by his wife.

If you havent got your daily dose of ridiculous yet check out this site www.texansformarriage.org the designer and instigator of the print ads campaign Chris Cline was a financial supporter of Gabbard, as yet not reliably linked to the cult although SoI has a following in Texas.

Way to crap on all the innocent kids and hard working single mothers that take care of them after "daddy" has taken off with his Jagad Guru endorsed co-wife or cant pay his child support because his spiritual master needs a new surfboard. "

Quote

Fact : Kids living with their own Mom and Dad are happier, healthier and live longer more productive lives.

Quote

Fact : Marriage reduces the risk that a woman will be the victim of domestic violence or a violent crime.

Considering that you cant have domestic violence involving one person and most murders are committed by someone the victim knows I find this one in particular a little hard to believe. Of course if he is a devotee then he knows there is no such thing as domestic violence in SoI - just the husband out of the goodness of his devotion teaching the wife how to behave properly. :roll: :cry:

Quote
cultreporter
That is just because they have so much to hide. Rick Reed working under the instructions of Chris Butler went to work in the Prosectors Department, later using information that had illegally obtained from this position to slander a political opponent which backfired when he was exposed as being an SoI puppet by his ex-wife.

The recent Eulogy delivered by Rick Reed at Chuck Marsland's funeral. Rick Reed (aka Krsna das) is a disciple of Jagad Guru Siddhaswarup Ananda. Reed has always skirted the issue, but check out his admission at the end of his speech.

Quote

"...In our conversations over the years it was obvious that Chuck had
experienced a remarkable transition from one who felt the burden of
needing to avenge his son's death personally, to allowing justice to
be served within the criminal justice system, to achieving the peace
that comes with the understanding that there is a higher power—a
Supreme Being who is unconditionally loving yet not about to allow
those who harm innocent people to go unpunished.

Chuck knew that I had great respect for [u:0a28e089c9]my spiritual teacher, Jagad
Guru Siddhaswarup Ananda[/u:0a28e089c9], and, shortly after he became Prosecuting
Attorney, Chuck asked me to arrange a meeting between the two men.
They met only once and never conversed again, but Chuck told me he
came away from that meeting with a newfound peace. He said he left
that meeting confident that although Chuckers had experienced the
death of his body, the person Chuck knew and loved as his son had not
ceased to exist and was in good hands.

This understanding is a universal truth that has been taught through
the ages by sages and spiritual teachers of all religious persuasions.

I know that Polly and all of us who had the pleasure of knowing Chuck
can find solace in the knowledge that although his body has worn out,
and he has moved on, the person we knew and loved as Chuck Marsland
continues to exist and is in good hands."

SoI doesnt care how they get into power, even with their militant homophobia the desire is to simply get power period. Butler run candidates have run simultaneously in oppossing parties with Wayne Nisiki being one of the most controversial and reviled members of his party's history for unprecedented endorsement of a candidate for the opposition - Rick Reed, for whom Mike Gabbard was working at the time. Rick Reed also used his position in the prosecutors department to direct blame for organised crime onto an alledged Mafia figure for which Butler feared retaliation since it was the cult, not any concern for public safety or even the prosecutors office that was perptuating these allegations.

Following the near exposure in New Zealand with law enforcement investigations against the cult Butler began ordering his followers to take up policing as a career. The cult has infiltrated over the past 30 years every level of Hawaiian government from local council to Senator and the Board of Education as well as forming a multitude of lobbying groups and media enterprises. In perspective Scientology was able to create havoc by infiltrating just the tax division of the Justice Department - imagine what can be done with a senator. If anyone is the father of organised crime in Hawaii it is Chris Butler, and not the man they accussed, although maybe Godhead of organised crime would be more appropriate.

So now Rick Reed is admitting that Chris Butler is his guru. As I recall all those years in office he stated that Chris Butler was just one of many people he learned from.

Cult is there a link where I can find the entire eulogy? This is very revealing stuff.