Come on guys: it's Just Googlings turn now? He has been posting on the thread since 2005, longer than Cara or almost anyone else still posting.

I doubt whether anyone here is or was Chris Butler.Many walkaways have issues resolving the good and bad.

Perhaps supporting each other with mutual respect would be better than trying to make it a one person thread?
Just a thought, Yasmin

Its been some time since I have posted although I do check to see whats being happening on the forum at times. No-one especially Zelig have caused me not to post. I really just want to get on with my life, dipping into this forum can sometimes bring back memories I'd really just want to put behind. But this one is in defence of Zelig.

Zelig, you are one articulate guy, I always read your posts. Reading you open letter to Chris Bulter I found incredibly moving. You write for many of us who were around at that time. Thank you for posting that letter!

One thing that comes to mind that people like cultreporter fail to understand
is 15-20 years ago things were very different to how they are now.
When a hint of what may appear as "siding with the enemy", or
"trying to be guru" and I see how someone from this SIF era may think this,
I think they are way of the mark.
The experiences that Zelig, Shanti, Just googling, Dassi, etc all portray I can affiliate with. We are all from the same time-frame. In leaving at that time the anger the frustration it wasn't there, it was more a sadness. Which is maybe why some posts may come across as "siding with the enemy"
We all wanted to believe in someone and that happened to be Chris. It was around the hippy era - we were looking for some meaning to life. Chris gave the answers or so we thought.
Compared to now when you have the kids of disciples like Rama, or younger girls like cultreporter your reactions to leaving are full of anger and frustration. And rightfully so!

Anyway Zelig- thankyou very much. Your words ring loud and true to my ears!

PS I posted this on another forum- mistake

Cultreporter.
I commend you for what you are doing, keep up the good research!
But take it easy on Zelig and co.
Do you really think you are doing the right thing by attempting to expose peoples identity who post on this forum.

I think that's below the belt, and it shouldn't be happening.
This forum is for all of us, we all are entitled to posting whatever...
My two cents are to keep your investigation on the culprit SIF, not
identities of who is posting.

That type of behavior will send me off this forum for good!

Regarding Gabbard Campaign Contributors- to campaign
These are known SIF Disciples or students. all would have to be US citizens and legally earning money/paying tax etc in order to contribute
so that puts many disciples/students in the Not suitable pile.

Looks like at least 50% of contributors have vested interests in getting Gabbard elected-

Abrams Ellen- student/disciple
Anthony Anya NZ disciple married to Tim Anthony
Harvey- Josh, Michael all disciple family from Sacramento
Kibler Shalie - daughter of Merril Smythe originally Sydney-student
Lowther Richard/Amanda- disciples
Muncie, Chimin N Mrs- married to Tusta
Ranson, Sudama- brother of Rama
Riggs, Alison/Robert- name is familiar
Sands, Suzanne/Frederick- students in sacramnento
Sherer, Aaron- student/disciple
Spencer, Jesse E/Joyce- Janmastami and Ted Spencer Krsna Chaitanya disciples
Tamayo, Tulsi Gabbard- obvious
Titcomb, Chintamani/Teresa- Family of disciples
Bellord, Richard/Sarah- Ex husband of Wai and new wife both disciples
Rama Krsna das and ?
Bishop, John K- married to Jeannie Jamuna dasi
Bull, K.D. Mrs- wife of Deving Bull disciple
Cervantes, Edward/Eileen- disciples in CA
Compton, Patricia J- the dreaded Prema dasi
Cordeiro, Romel- Acupuncturist to Chris disciple
Gabbard, Ryan- Naryana Gabbard son
Gleason, Lydia- Disciple
Olsen, Lawrence J Mr.- old Larry disciple Lalita Gopal das
Gleason, Rasika- daughter of Lydia, sister Kunti Bull
Hinchey, Mike- disciple Mahamantra das

Looks like 50% of contributors have vested interests in getting Gabbard elected- the others they probably paid to make a contribution.
Slimy operation this political wheel!
I doubt if we will see anyone new in US politics as they have to be running out of names for donations. NZ, Australia will be next as they can get a whole new list from there.

I've had my say here- will check in later

Quote
Boags
cultreporter has many identites on here, Rick just chooses to ignore it

Ok Rick - I have a confession to make - I am Boags :roll: :lol:

Sure it's sad so is the fact that there are thousands of people in SoI feeling like they are being unfairly attacked and pandering cant they just be left in peace to say as they want and do as they want and why all the hostility we're just people believing what we want to believe in - surely we have the right to do that? Doesnt apply to adults who want to have sex with someone the same gender as them though does it? Or Muslims who believe Gawd wanted them to put a plane in the World Trade Center. SoI believes that Krishna is the Supreme Controller, but as soon as something is happening that they dont like then they are looking around for someone else to blame. Well I believe that I everything I do is exactly what Gawd wants me to do (including spelling it like that yeah) prove that I dont - see how that works?

Go and google Rick Ross or rrmoderator and see the utter shit that gets flung around about him - there are people who are determined that he had culpability for what happened at Waco when even watching one DVD about it (Ambush at Waco is pretty factual, although it is hard to fit the whole event into two hours but it has background of the ATF) shows that there are holes in theories like that miles wide. Talk to a scientologist and see what they have to say about him and then wonder why - the truth is all about motives. No matter how many times the facts are presented doesnt stop the same crap being raised against him or me or Alex Jones, David Icke, Michael Moore, Steve Hassan or whoever else
over and over and over until the end of time and proof be damned, if people can believe that gawd is an acid tripping surfer bum or a blue skinned boy or xenu then what's to be done but accept that the irrational always have us surrounded.

Oh yeah the cult activists have soooo much to gain :roll: Give me a couple more years and I'll be able to buy that Hawaaian mansion right next door to Ricks, the one that Singer used to live in bought from all the proceeds she got from running free counselling for people's whose lives were messed up by cults and we can have a private jet race down to the beach where our minions sit to make the beach look occupied so that we can surf in peace.

I love it how all these people think I owe them something and should be nuturing their fragile beliefs and getting upset and attacking me when they feel unfullfilled and let down - kind of what happens to you huh Chris?

The thing about cult apologists and those who can still find fondness for cult leaders is that they believe that we live in a world where if you dial a pizza and the delivery boy shows up with a steaming box of dog shit that not only was that what you asked for by ordering but that you are still obliged to pay for it. Difference between a religion and a cult is that a religion will just take the money and leave you with it, a cult will stick around to make sure that you eat it.

Back to basics here, according to Chris Butler with SoI there is nothing to join, there is no requirement for membership, one does not neccessarily have to accept what he says just because he is saying it, all one has to do to be his follower is follow his instructions (assuming that he gives them any - if he doesnt then you dont have to worry about that bit) study his teachings and accept that Krishna is the Supreme Controller. Cool, so I am a student of Siddhaswarupanada Paramahamsa. I'll be the one sitting down the back and being chastised for passing notes, and I wont get to graduate and be a disciple, but that is actually a failure on behalf of the teacher, not the student. I didnt make up the rules, but I can play by them.

Let's share the teachings with the world...

"Technically speaking your body is never over five years old, since no atom has been present in it for more than five years....as your body gets older.." Anyone want to blog that?

BTW - It is illegal for any business to discriminate against a person in Australia based on their religion, their assumed religion or interfere with their individual right in how they practice their religion in every state and on a federal level.

Transcendental Sound in Australia is a registered business. I dont know how Transcendental Sound would justify the fact that I have not been able to purchase lecture CDs or books from them at all or do this in an uninhibited manner, ie - by sending me a catalogue which they claim to have in the current brochures for Australian School of Meditation, although I think that it is beyond time they were called to explain this being that they are infringing on my legally enforcable human rights.

It is further likely to be assessed as an infringement on my human rights to be actively prevented from furthering my religion which is based on following the Lord in the Heart and Scripture and the available preachings of Chris Butler which all emphaise following the path of Bhakti yoga and that there is no greater service to perform than giving Krishna to others, so to object to videos, letters, audio lectures and booklets being passed on to those who wish to look at them without any proof presented to back alegations that these items are infact copyrighted and that there is a specific instruction from Chris Butler that he revokes this being the way to practice Bhakti Yoga and renounces his title of Jagad Guru - teacher of the entire world is to make a definite move to prevent me from practicing my religion.

Further it has not even been clarified yet whether or not under the law that Australian School of Meditation fits the definition of a religious organisation and given that contradictory statement have been made by ASM the impending complaint will first need to test this.

Of course if they are a religion then the Advertising laws will likely take a dim view of claiming to be non-religious and non-sectarian and the business zoning laws will probably take a dim view to operating religious businesses in a residental area which ASM does, and that is without even considering all the complexities of business law such as insurance, but at the very least those who are interested in the nature of SoI will be able to receive some clarification.

I think that for all ex-disciples of Chris Butler, whether during the 70's & 80's or much more recent, we have all experienced the entire spectrum of emotions connected with that experience. Anger, outrage, sadness, pain, feeling lost for a time afterwards, feeling cheated, questioning our own judgement capabilities etc etc...and finally disillusionment. I don't find any of these emotions more valid or important than the other. Some of us may have happened upon this life experience during the hippie era, and for some, it has happened more recently.

I DO think that the older ex-Chris disciples did not have a tendency when they left to be avid about trying to "expose" Chris' organization...especially with such gumption and detail as the more recent ex-disciples are doing. Probably for a lot of us, we just wanted to "put that experience behind us" and get on with our lives. I highly commend all the efforts that are currently happening to do just that...expose Chris...expose Science of Identity for what it really is...a dangerous cult!

We do come from slightly different time-line experiences...70's & 80's ex-disciples...and more recent ones. Our personal experiences with Chris, MAY, but not always, be different. For a lot of older ex-disciples, we were around Chris a lot, spoke to him often one-to-one, and had him be personally active in our daily lives. So our remembrances of him, & that experience, are sometimes "personal dialogue" in our memory banks...we may tend to ramble on about Chris this, & Chris that. It doesn't mean that a recent ex-disciples experiences, or their devotion and sincerity during their involvement, are any less valid or important...they ALL are.

We were all seeking answers. We all thought that Chris' message could possibly hold those answers. We all stepped in and tried to figure it out. We all wound up leaving. That is our common bond. Now that we all post on this forum from time to time is our other bond. Again...please, let us be kind to one another. Our experience of Science of Identity and Chris Butler is an extra-ordinary life time experience. Check with the neighbors on your block...how many do you think were involved in a cult in their life time???

It is good to be wary of information that is posted on here without any back-up. It is good to be wary of people posting on here that seem to be subversive. There IS a moderator on this site for dealing with just such things...n'est pas? We are all able to think, and digest information. To scream & yell at one another seems crazy to me. Did we not all go through enough already? Now we need to be rude to one another? Surely there must be better uses of our time and energy. I know I certainly have better uses for mine! Anyone wanna come help paint my back porch & living room?

Keep the valid detailed information coming, and experiences that reveal real information. The exposure. Perhaps in that way, we all can truly be of some use to others....and help bring this organization to it's knees. Exposure and information...otherwise, what good is this forum.

I understand that some people on here are genuinely pissed off! Don't blame you one damn bit. Maybe we can try and stick to the purpose of the forum however...information and exposure directly connected to Chris. Rant in your head, and give information on here...??? Just an idea ;)

"cultreporter has many identites on here, Rick just chooses to ignore it"

Shanti and I seem to be the only ones defending Cara and Shanti joined this thread the day before Z did - before Cara had anything to do with this thread. You can't seriously believe that she is any of the people supporting this person attacking her. :roll:

This is the same lack of evidence that I protested with regard to the recently departed party. Like the brilliant "I don't need a board of experts to back up my opinion" quote from Z (seriously the best quote on the whole thread) apparently there are others who support graduates from the Bumpkin's Barfly University:

"My opinion - 'hic' - I tellz ya, does not need any proof!" motto.

Information on the cult 'SIF' is a definite poke in Butler's eye with a toothpick we seem to have regular opponents to it.

People are so quick to offer there assured opinion that Butler's group would have no input on this thread while Rick is stating that there have been a number of troll-like characters joining this thread to create a disturbance. Surely the Bumpkin's Uni is not that niave. Everytime we post a link that gets closer to having a certain someone's name on it is obviously protecting their own ass by attacking Cara.

I posted the link to a thread discussing Independents for Godly Government by people who were there - which suddenly disappears overnight and Zelig just happened to have copied only the last post on the thread which seems happens to be the reason. Hang on wasn't Z in IGG. Perhaps his cheer squad would like to pay attention to the relevant points of why he was removed from this thread. Cara cannot possibly know if one of the names that she finds on the net is Z so instead of telling her "this is who I am" and can you please leave me out of the picture he tries to discredit her before his name is mentioned. Come on really, that is only going to give her the opposite motivation i.e. to expose someone who is a direct attacker. Brilliant!

"Goooooooooooooooo team Bumpkins!".

Even if you destroyed this whole thread, a name and what Zelig did will inadvertently be available and noone will even know it was you.

Why was he so objectionable to questions of Mike Gabbard's past? Perhaps his involvement extends to the periods that were in question i.e. late 70s and early 80s when Zelig was a member of IGG. So it does. Big surprise. Because he is somehow involved with one of the many politicians that was a product of IGG there will be clear evidence to his involvement in the day. Obviously he has googled his own name and knows it is available. There will be records of IGG members. So what does he do next? Try to suggest that ALL the people in the cult were great people. Sorry Z i'm not buying it one bit.

If he acted like a cult apologist and that is what he was pulled up for then anyone who supports him is infact supporting a underhanded apologist trying to save his own ass at any cost to the investigation of SIF.

Sorry to point out the obvious.

IF someone on this thread
says that Siddhaswarupanda
eats baked babies for breakfast
and if I reply to say:
I never saw that when I was in this cult
does that make me a cult apologist? :?:

NO

We are trying to keep this thread
back on track and less "sensational"
like in those tabloid papers one sees at the supermarket.

[b:4b2a0baf0d]Otherwise this whole forum loses its credibility.[/b:4b2a0baf0d]

If someone says that all the big names and leaders in this cult
went to the same school
and if I say, "That's not true."
does that make me a cult apologist?

NO
(Maybe they are mixing up the history of
Frank Zappa and Don Van Vliet?
two famous musicians who went to the same school)

It does not mean that I am your enemy.
I'm just stating what I know.
Why some people on this thread want to turn
former friends and allies into their enemies
is beyond me...
people who offered moral support
people who offered financial support
people who offered to give shelter
when dangerous cult members threatened their life!

:arrow: But it is also beyond me
why the Japanese
bombed Pearl Harbor
when they could have remained on friendly terms with USA


:cry: